Ok the theory is good and nice, but "minor resistance" will be like what? I bet will start between 2 and 5% resistance, after that 10% and then between 15% or 20%... like dmg resistance inspirations... of course i can be wrong.
If we got back the defense amount we had in I4, i think it will be much better than this...
The current amount of defense we can get from toogles now is 27.5% (Evasion is cool we can get 49.5%) if we 6 slot them with ALL defense buff. Then with ED coming this going to drop to what? Passives gives 11% (Lucky we can get 16.5%)
With passives and toogles we get 38.5% Defense against a even con foe(These are for meele and ranged defense).
A Boss have 65% of base to hit. If you go against a +1 this goes between 71.5% and 72.5% almost a AV or a giant monster base to hit (75%). If you go against a +2 this go further, a +3 even more...
I believe you can see how bad this is... For a SR scrapper a +1 boss is almost like a giant monster or a AV fight, only the boss dont make the same amount of dmg of a AV but still great dmg.
This is only 1 example...
Resistance in sr set will help? Of course yes but, "minor resistance" its only a way to make people feel a little better...
Its like the dmg resistance insp. You hit a small one, and then get hit. You know you are resisting 5% because its said in insp descripition, but you really could tell that if you didnt know this insp was for dmg resistance?
The numbers i used here i got from this nice post :
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#3799267
And this place : http://www.users.on.net/~frost/defense.html
Its a a nice and updated post about defense if anyone wants to read. From the same post:
"Be forewarned: this stuff has been debated to death. Also, while I strongly encourage people to post their ideas, observations, comments, and suggestions on defense-related issues, bear in mind that if you post a message stating, essentially "I have the answer to everything" one of two things is extremely likely to happen: the message will be ignored, or the suggestion in the message will be heavily critiqued. Be prepared for both. "
And for anyone who wants to read or have the time, especially for the DEVS i quote some interesting parts of this post:
----
"DEFENSE, ACCURACY, AND VILLAINS
Some villains possess tohit buffs (either inherent ones, like those attributed to rank and level, or power-based ones, like Behemoths that use invincibility), and some behave like their attacks are slotted with accuracy enhancements. Rularuu Watchers appear to have significantly higher than normal base tohit (the precise value is unknown to me). Malta gunslingers have an accuracy buff instead of a tohit buff on their pistol's cone attack. Its been approximately measured as about +65% - comparable to two accuracy SOs of accuracy boost.
Also interesting: Paragon Protectors that use MoG have *massively* higher defense than the ones that (apparently) use Elude. Its unclear precisely why the large difference exists. "
------
"Quartz eminators, quicksand patches
Quicksand patches are autohitting slow and defense debuff patches. These were highly lethal to defense sets, because their defense debuffs couldn't be defended against or otherwise avoided, and once hit, the slow made it difficult to escape (Super Reflexes has a resistance to slow, but it didn't fully mitigate the -fly -jump which could trap a scrapper between villains and friends alike, and it didn't necessarily allow for quick escapes from the patch). Quicksand was also spammed by Earth thorn casters - a CoT minion - in CoT missions from levels 35 to 39. Although this was supposedly fixed (by lessening the frequency of earth thorn casters as well as reducing their propensity to cast quicksand) its still an example of a highly powerful defense-unfriendly power that has few analogs for resistance or regeneration.
Quartz eminators - the eminators dropped by DE LTs - is even more exceptional. Quartz eminators emit a tohit buff to all DE within its buff radius. The tohit buff eminated from quartz eminators is extremely large - by some estimates several hundred percent. To put Quartz eminators into perspective, I3 SR scrappers running perma-elude and the toggles combines were running with more than 150% defense - and still being easily hit by Quartz-eminator buffed DE minions. Once again, there is no analog to the quartz eminator for any other form of damage mitigation, such as resistance and regeneration. "
-----------
"Team scalers and difficulty sliders
Important to note for defense sets: the difficulty slider (also known as the reputation slider) increases the level of villains within your missions, and therefore increases the base tohit of those villains (it doesn't generally increase the ranks of villains, except for the fact that heroic suppresses bosses). The team scaler increases the difficulty of missions based on the number of heroes on the team, and it increases rank and level and numbers of villains. With much lower defenses in I5 than earlier issues of CoH, high level missions can be less than friendly to defense-oriented sets, moreso than other damage mitigation sets."
--------------------
"What Defense is most vulnerable to, is plentiful in the CoH environment.
The most common secondary effect in CoH besides DoT (damage over time) is defense debuff. Defense debuffs are more common than resistance debuffs and regeneration debuffs combined. And Defense debuffs are undoubtably more dangerous to Defense sets than resistance debuffs and regeneration debuffs are to resistance and regeneration sets, respectively (regeneration debuffs would be significantly more dangerous to regeneration sets if they prevented things such as reconstruction and dull pain from functioning). Defense is also vulnerable to tohit buffs, and every single villain of higher rank than minion, and every single villain higher in level than even con, has an effective tohit buff.
To say that Defense is inferior to Resistance, given the large environmental disadvantages that Defense faces in CoH, would be comparable to changing all the damage dealth by villains to toxic and psi, and then claiming that Resistance was inferior to Defense. "
--------------
"What's up with tohit buffs?
Good question. Very high tohit buffs are, at least, uncommon in PvE. They are very common in PvP, because high order tohit buffs are extremely common in player power sets.
The two most common tohit buffs are build up and Aim, and both are high order tohit buff (Build Up is a 60% tohit buff, and Aim is a 100% tohit buff). Virtually all blasters, most defenders, almost all scrappers, and most tankers have access to either Build Up or Aim, and many blasters have access to both. Only controllers as a class lack BU or Aim (and pets have a tohit bonus).
If you are relying on defense in the arena, here's the score. If you have SR or Ice, and a couple stacked bubbles, someone who elected to 6-slot Aim with tohit buff enhancements to kill defense sets will hit you no matter what defense level you think you have. Realistically, that one power, and 5 extra enhancement slots, can effectively nullify an entire team's worth of defense buffs (7 stacked bubbles will beat Aim, of course, but all reasonable levels of defense and most unreasonable ones are going to be beat by 6-slot Aim). Without significant buffs, anyone with either build up or Aim will hit you.
It is unclear why Defense was lowered as part of the Global Defense reductions in I5, but tohit buffs were (apparently) not. If they were, this fact was not reported, nor has it shown up yet in anyone's testing. "
------------------
"THE CANONICAL LIST OF DEFENSE-RELATED COMPLAINTS REGULARLY DISCUSSED ON THE FORUMS
In no particular order (and without commenting on validity):
* SR underperforms other scrapper sets
* SR is a "one trick pony" that has only defense
* Ice tanks uderperform other tanker sets
* Ice tanks performance is too similar to SR scrappers for a tanker
* High defense is too frustrating in the arena
* Low defense is too frustrating in the arena
* There are too many defense debuffs in the game
* Defense debuffs are too strong
* Tohit buffs in the arena are too strong
* Defense requires you to be lucky
* Defense is inferior to Resistance in all respects
* The SR set is too reliant on power pool defenses
* The Force Fields set is insufficiently strong as a buff set
* Resistance buffs are more appreciated than Defense buffs
* The SR (and to a lesser degree Ice) set can be too easily simulated with a few luck inspirations
* Lucky and Evasion are in the wrong order in the SR set
* Invincibility is too powerful a defense power for Invulnerability given that it can outperform the supposedly "defense-oriented sets"
* The -DEF in Unyielding should be removed given the overall reductions to the invuln set
* SR passive defenses are too inefficient to slot
* There are too many autohitting attacks
* There shouldn't exist autohitting defense debuffs
* Quartz eminators
* Defense stacking is too complicated, unfair to some sets, and creates problems in improperly selecting and slotting certain defense powers "
---------------------
MTT -- what a great post. I hope someone on the dev team actually reads it...
F
Some more good analysis and suggestions for helping SR without adding defiance/res.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...Number=3804729
I would simply rather not be hit, otherwise I would have taken invuln. I can live with stacks of 10+ caltrops bringing me to half health, or nemesis gas devestating me, so long as I'm not getting mercilessly pounded by mere minions at the same time.
Dunno if this has been suggested, but here's something that's been kinda jumping around my brain for a few days. (I need to let it out, it's lonely in there)
Why not tie this to the endurance bar, and reverse it. The more endurance you have, the greater the chances of partially avoiding an attack. Basically 100% end = full passive damres, and as you hit benchmarks, 50%, 33%, 20%, whatever they are, you lose that little edge as you get tired and start getting sloppy in your evasive maneuvers. Makes sense, no?
You then have a choice in the matter (more choices are good right?), mount an all out assault and drain your end faster in an attempt to overcome your foe(s) with brute strength in a speedy fashion and thereby endangering yourself by removing your ability to partially dodge the attacks you can't quite get out of the way of OR conserving your energy, ducking and weaving, feinting and flowing with the battle and await those opportunities to ram in there with a quick one-two punch.
About freakin time something was done for SR. Now how about Ice Tankers (Ice Armor)?
Total Focus is a hold, right?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take invincibility... Please... Ill gift wrap the focker for you and send you a framed picture of me on my bed in my skimpies with "XOXO love you lots Arcanaville" written on it in black marker.
[/ QUOTE ]
Much like passive resistance, this is yet another buff I was not asking for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because you weren't asking for it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.
Go ahead Arcana, you've earned it. 
[/ QUOTE ]
haha... +1000 humor points for me
[ QUOTE ]
Dunno if this has been suggested, but here's something that's been kinda jumping around my brain for a few days. (I need to let it out, it's lonely in there)
Why not tie this to the endurance bar, and reverse it. The more endurance you have, the greater the chances of partially avoiding an attack. Basically 100% end = full passive damres, and as you hit benchmarks, 50%, 33%, 20%, whatever they are, you lose that little edge as you get tired and start getting sloppy in your evasive maneuvers. Makes sense, no?
You then have a choice in the matter (more choices are good right?), mount an all out assault and drain your end faster in an attempt to overcome your foe(s) with brute strength in a speedy fashion and thereby endangering yourself by removing your ability to partially dodge the attacks you can't quite get out of the way of OR conserving your energy, ducking and weaving, feinting and flowing with the battle and await those opportunities to ram in there with a quick one-two punch.
[/ QUOTE ]
It makes sense conceptually, but unfortunately its going to run into a problem: until you get into the 20s, its really basically impossible to keep a full end bar, which means the effect will be pretty low quite often for low level SR scrappers. And unless the resistance delivered is extremely high, it wont be enough to really ofset the inherent loss of health associated with not attacking and keeping too many things around for too long. Although, there is an actual SR scrapper that can approximate this exact behavior: katana/SR scrappers can switch from attacking, to spamming divine avalanche, and in effect drop offense very low, and keep defense very high.
Its interesting to me that only katana/SR really has that choice, and not all SR scrappers in general. As much as people think invincibility ought to be in the SR set, I think a form of parry/DA ought to be in SR even more.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
I've alluded to this in a couple of places, but I wanted to describe something we'll be doing for Super Reflexes quite soon...
Super Reflexes Auto powers (Agile, Dodge, and Lucky) now add some minor damage resistance. This Damage resistance starts at 0%, but improves as the caster loses HP. The Resistance kicks in at 60% HP (when HP bar first changes color) and markedly increases at 40% and 20% (again, when the bar changes color). We have not yet determined the exact values.
This change is in addition to the recent modification that gave most Defense Primary and Secondary powers resistance to Defense Debuffs (self Defense powers).
[/ QUOTE ]
Speaking of my three SR Scrappers, this probably won't be enough to keep them alive. They're already not very fun to play because they're always kissing someone's asphalt, far more than any of my other Scrappers, especially after Issue 5.
Of course, I'm gone in a couple weeks anyway, so it's too little too late for me, but this should be increased for those folks who are staying.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
I think the problem with SR is that it goes south too fast even for this damage mitigation effect to help much. If something can 2-shot you, it will still be able to 2-shot you,odds are. Shot 1 knocks you to say 35% hp and a slight resistance kicks in, then shot 2 knocks you WAY below 0... So instead of dying at -150 hp you die at -75. Oh that's a help.
The fundamental problem with SR post-ED is that it caps out around 28% (ish). That means the entire SR powerset except for Elude and Quickness, can be replicated by popping a SINGLE basic Luck inspiration.
How this is not clearly viewed as a problem, I do not understand.
F
28%?????? ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME???!?!?!?!!
Holy crap. I guess My super speedster is never gonna make it anywhere. I am tellin ya this game is headed to the MMORPG trashcan with every other one. Melee classes being gimped, archetypes forced into cretain builds, nerfs eevryday...
At 28% I may as well not even have armor. They really should exclude armor sets from this ED thing
I believe that's about what you end up with assuming 3 +def enhancers toggle and passive. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I think I'm gonna work on my SR scrapper and get her as close to 50 as I can before this hits... LOL... And after that I guess I will be chewing purple pills a lot again, just like I did before I got SOs.
F
[ QUOTE ]
Basically 100% end = full passive damres
[/ QUOTE ] I almost like that idea. the problem is that it would probably make us more tank like than what is good for us. Depending on the numbers and level, /SR could outperform /Inv as a tank by just not attacking.
Again, I like the thematic idea of using +res to simulate our ability to dodge, and that at full endo it is better than low endo...just think it would make us to good at tanking.
Rounding numbers off, and since we'll have slots galore post ED.
Toggle: 1x End, 3x Def = 12.5 * 1.6 = 20%
Passive: 3x Def = 5 * 1.6 = 8%
28% Melee, Ranged. AOE is conciderably higher. Oh, and if you want you can do 4x Def. The Def after 40% is only 85% effective, after 60% it's only 15% effective, therefore 4 slots = exact same buff as 3 slots pre-ED.
Been playing on Test with only 3x Def in my toggles (replaced 1 with another end to simulate the 13.33% end reduction), deleted half the enhancements from Health and Stamina (had both 6 slotted) and it's still playable. Able to solo on both Unyielding and Invinc setting but I was using ToF more often. Oh, and had replaced extra slots in the attacks.
As great as it is to hear that some small help is on the way...this sounds way too much like "defiance' to me,which by the way doesn't work at all. My blaster is dead and his defiance bar hasn't even passed the halfway point,it goes up so slowly and he can take so few hits. They should both be made more on a scale like fury is.hey why not,instead of kicking in when hurt,why not as they attack? They are scrappers after all. Also as stated,it will provide no help at all from the 1-shot problem,they face whenever they see an AV. Remember they have no choice but to go into melee with AVs and should certainly be able to withstand a couple shots before dropping. Or is this how you see teaming? Scrappers run in hit once,die,then the defender rezzes them,rinse repeat...
i'm sure this has probably been said before, but i am not about to search through 24 pages of posts on this :P.
but why in blazes would you give SR a boost in resistance ONLY when they get hit an lose health? isn't this set suppsoed to be based on us NOT getting hit? o.O
it's like saying 'i'm gonna give a resistance based set more defense if they start dodgeing alot of attacks' o.O
Z.
At first I thought this was a stupid idea.
Well I still think its stupid to reduce a power in effetiveness only to add a completely different affect to it in addition to what it already has in order to counterbalance the reduction you've done...
Anyway...resistance to damage on super reflexes concept wise does make some sense.
I did a superhero movie marathon yesterday X1, X2, SM1, SM2, Batman Begins.
I noticed (particularly in SM1/2) that when spidey was unable to completely avoid an attack with his SR powers (DEF) he was able to use his SR powers to reduce the damage he took (RES) by not taking the full slice of a blade or punch.
So concept wise for characters it could sorta make sense. Game wise though...adding an inherent power to "fix" a set that you just nerfed is kinda stupid. But, meh.
Hmm. The attention to SR is nice, but I have to agree with the majority here: adding an emergency resistance system doesn't make much sense. It's a bland, patchwork mechanic for set that's supposed to have swift Kung Fu dynamic. Helpful? Yes. Boring? Definitely.
Developers - as long as you're willing to introduce unique systems to shore up an ailing set, how about this:
Add an active dodge element to Super Reflexes by increasing defense vs. our current selected target. The enemy we're actively fighting is the enemy we're actively dodging. Keep our numbers the same for all other enemies, but allow us to put the focus in 'Focused Senses'. This might also help lesson some of the PvP aim and accuracy frustration. If we see the build up coming, we can target the sniper and increase our chances of a successful dodge.
Does this make sense? Is this even doable?
SparrowhawkHummingbirdDungeon MasterCapricornHour WomanQueen NefariaJunkyard GirlDoll FaceStitchbladeRed MinstrelMimic
[ QUOTE ]
i'm sure this has probably been said before, but i am not about to search through 24 pages of posts on this :P.
but why in blazes would you give SR a boost in resistance ONLY when they get hit an lose health? isn't this set suppsoed to be based on us NOT getting hit? o.O
it's like saying 'i'm gonna give a resistance based set more defense if they start dodgeing alot of attacks' o.O
Z.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is an actual benefit, although its a psychological one moreso than a true mathematical benefit. SR scrappers, because they deal in "bursty" damage, have a different "run" psychology. They cannot watch their health bar slowly decay, and run in the red, like invuln can. Each time they get hit, their bar jumps closer to the end, and they can't be sure that they wont get a burst of damage that finishes them off. Its a little more tense for SR - in the old days playing perma-elude with your health bar blinking deep in the red was a lot different than playing an invuln scrapper with max resists deep in the red.
With the damage resistance working the way it does, SR now has a little more of that invulnerability feel to it, in my opinion. Damage "slows down" as you get hit, and you're much more likely to survive a "close encounter" if you press your luck. This wouldn't be true, necessarily, if the resistance was flat resistance instead.
However, actually, thats precisely *why* I don't like it: from a pure play and feeling perspective, it "taints" SR with an invuln flavor, something I would rather not do: invuln has that flavor already, we don't need another secondary with it.
Furthermore, it does nothing for SRs higher downtime, both in CoV and in CoH. As I mentioned before, in CoH, every scrapper secondary has an ability to self-heal except for SR. In CoV, every stalker secondary has an ability to either self-heal or restore endurance, except SR. SR, in both worlds, has the worst downtime mitigation. To place on top of that deficiency a mitigation ability that only really kicks in when SR is knocked to low health, something SR cannot easily get out of, seems wrong to me.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I'm not too excited about this, but then I hardly play my SR scrapper anymore. Being 50 there are hardly any missions worth doing that don't include an AV so losing perma-elude with I4 didn't excite me. Instead of having a chance to get killed when elude dropped it was guaranteed after 3 minutes. Whoo, fun. Now with I5 and being pecked to death by minions, it just wasn't much fun to me, but opinions may differ. I suspect after ED, it will not be any fun, unless something changes.
On to the subject, I don't see a minor resistance being anything that will return the fun to the game for /SR. It might, but I'm skeptical. Even if you get 25-30% resistance when at 20% of you HP it won't matter since everything will be a threat with the major defense drops.
I hated doing it, but I did respec in toughness and make some changes between toggles and autos to make the high end game more survivable. I was annoyed at having to rely on pool powers, but when trying to keep up with the INV tankers I couldn't stand in there without getting one/two-shotted by an AV or Monster. Guess we don't have to worry about INV so much anymore, but I don't see the resistance being that helpful when my scrapper would usually be defeated by 40-50% hp negative without fully slotted Tough. Even then +1 or +2 AV like Battle Maiden can still do the oneshot with no prob, even through elude. Yay. 
I loved playing my MA/SR scrapper, but I am very skeptical about all of these changes bringing the fun back to the build. I will try it first before just leaving the game, but I'm finding it harder and harder to get excited about playing this game with each and every change.
[ QUOTE ]
Add an active dodge element to Super Reflexes by increasing defense vs. our current selected target. The enemy we're actively fighting is the enemy we're actively dodging. Keep our numbers the same for all other enemies, but allow us to put the focus in 'Focused Senses'. This might also help lesson some of the PvP aim and accuracy frustration. If we see the build up coming, we can target the sniper and increase our chances of a successful dodge.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree something like this would be a great idea. Certain primaries offer a similar effect like touch of fear in Dark Melee which seems to make DM/SR allot more durable than other SR combinations. This would go a long way in increasing our ability to survive against Arch-villains while still leaving us vulnerable to multiple minions. You could also do away with the lame evasion boost which does not make any sense. (Since when can Spider-Man dodge an explosion better than a punch?)
Not a direct reply to Statesman.
As another recent poster said I do not have time to read 24 pages of posts, so pardon me if this has been said already.
To all SR scrappers:
This will be as useful to you as Defiance is to Blasters. In other words do not depend on it or you will be dead.
I just love how when I die in the arena and respawn, the only active power that I can rely on and has any affect is Quickness.
Yeah! Good ol. reliable Quickness.
Wait
whats that? Ill now have Quickness and this buff???
OMG! Ill be overpowered! Here cometh the nerf-bat. 
I DO think SR needs some love...the RES helps but I think def DOES need to go bacvk up a bit though...
OR make it a mixed res/def set...so some blows you would be missed by and some you would be grazed by.
Add a comparative amount of res to the amount of def currently? Or perhaps tweaking is needed...i dunno. But the concept of SR definitely works with mixed DEF/RES.
I think that the main problem with SR, the main thing that is really unacceptable about it, is that 6 3-SO slotted powers out of the 9, all on at the same time (3 toggles and 3 passives), combined, will after ED barely equal a single luck inspiration.
This is tantamount to giving players a "Ranged Energy Blast" inspiration that lets them fire not just a ranged attack, but the best, fully slotted, built up attack an energy blaster can fire. And since that clearly is not reasonable, I don't understand why it is reasonable that the whole population has access an inspiration as good as 2/3rds of our power set at its BEST. Indeed, until the late 30s when you've got your slots all set, Luck is far BETTER than anything the best SR scrapper can do. And that is just not right... extra resistance or not.
F
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take invincibility... Please... Ill gift wrap the focker for you and send you a framed picture of me on my bed in my skimpies with "XOXO love you lots Arcanaville" written on it in black marker.
[/ QUOTE ]
Much like passive resistance, this is yet another buff I was not asking for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because you weren't asking for it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.
Go ahead Arcana, you've earned it.