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Alamo_Kid: What server is this on? I'd be down to build a toon for this group. Probably a sonic/*
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Protector. See the Summary I try to quote on every page.
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NeoClassis: Perhaps the only reason for needing END drain is variety?
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At what price variety? Is variety with 20% less DPS (Electric versus Dark) OK? If someone wanted to take the Energy secondary which only has a single AoE attack before level 35, would you let them into the SG?
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bombur: It isn't until my 20s do I really slot my attacks. Let me know if you think I should slot attacks a bit more early.
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Consider that at level 12+, you'll be running around with 4-8 Siphon Powers for +100% to +200% damage most of the time. Add in the fact that by the early 20s you should have 8 stacked Assaults for +150% damage. At level 32+ we'll open every combat with 4 stacked Fulcrum Shifts for up to a +1,200% bonus. (Yes, the Devs really did have a good reason to put in the damage cap, and the max number of targets cap.) Granted that once most of the mobs die it will be down to +200%. I can't see any reason to slot attacks for Damage at all.
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SUMMARY:
Global chat channel: "Tank Mages"
Supergroup: "Tank Mages" on the Protector server
Required Primary power sets: Kinetic, Sonic, Force Field, Defender only
Recommended Secondaries: 4 Kin/Dark, 2 Sonic/Sonic, 2 FF/Sonic
Note: Kin/Elec will do too
Highly Recommended pools: Leadership, Medicine
Several per team: Concealment (Grant Invis), Teleport
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Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Protector is also home to the Mythos SG. We are Superteaming it up Issue 5 and beyond. Just like this.
Protector is also home to an all defender SG, Defenders of the Night, which won "Best SG of Server" for Protector when Mythic ran that contest for every server. Been a while since I've been on Protector though, not sure they are active anymore.
But I can say any all defender team with just about any mix of primaries works great. In my experience, the DoTN teams with a random mix were almost as good as the all-rad groups we did. Sometimes better since sometimes the all rad groups were a bit too controller heavy and lacked damage.
I'm sure the sonic/ff/kinetics will work great. Personally I'd still add a dark in there. You'd get some psi protection, have a pet to take alpha when needed, and still add extra damage and control with tar patch and their other powers. And not sure you need 4 fulcrum shifts to reach damage cap so 4 kinetics seems overkill.. But, you seem set against them, so whatever, it's your idea, have fun with it. 
While I am inclined to agree with you regarding all Defender teams, I see TopDoc's reasoning.
The team has 3 parts it has to have to work. If you add a 4th part your odds of one of the needed parts not being available go way up.
And it's about the Speed Boosts more than the Fulcrum Shifts.
Want to see more tilesets?
Correct in every way.
Buffer Overrun is all-Rad. Team composition doesn't matter. Despite that, we often have problems putting teams together because of level differences. Imagine adding requirements for specific powersets on top of that. We need FFs for Defense and Status protection. I learned the hard way in Buffer Overrun that power pool defenses doesn't protect against AoE attacks, so there's really no substitute for FFs. We need Sonics for Resistance and status protection. Other powersets offer protection from different things, but Sonics covers almost everything. We need Kinetics for movement, Damage, END, and Recharge Reduction. Those are the bare minimum powersets needed, and I'd like to stick to the bare minimum.
And yes, Kinetics are for Speed Boost as much as Damage. The combination of major Run Speed, END Recovery, and Recharge Reduction bonuses means fast and furious combat, chaining AoEs while running at Super Speed.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Ok I looked, but may have missed it. Looking for a outline of a Kin/elec build for the SG. I saw Kin/dark and FF only. So far I have charged bolt, transference, ball lightening, siphon power, siphon speed.
Teaming last night was a blast and we didnt have the sonics yet. Looking forward to this.
Thanks again
Go heavy on the AoEs (Ball Lightning and Short Circuit) and team powers (Speed Boost!, Leadership, Increase Density, Grant Invis), very light on everything else. You shouldn't need more than your initial single-target attack, but time will tell.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
No offense TopDoc people that spread ideas like this are evedently gonna kill tankers and scrappers. Obviously you don't care but when the tankers and scrappers dont have a home in the game some other people might 
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No offense TopDoc people that spread ideas like this are evedently gonna kill tankers and scrappers. Obviously you don't care but when the tankers and scrappers dont have a home in the game some other people might
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Even if 100 people start following this there will be plenty of others you can ask to team up with you.
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No offense TopDoc people that spread ideas like this are evedently gonna kill tankers and scrappers. Obviously you don't care but when the tankers and scrappers dont have a home in the game some other people might
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Ummmm, that's only true it most people in the game start playing this way. Otherwise, scrappers and tankers will continue to be desired teammates. The AT that I think has most cause to worry (but I still think such worry would be misplaced) would be blasters. This team can wipe out groups of enemies without needing blaster damage, while being much more durable than blasters. So who would need them? Of course, the answer is, as above, any team not build super-team style like this.
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
blasters are still fun for me... depending on type... i prefer assualt rifle/device blasters personally..lol
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No offense TopDoc people that spread ideas like this are evedently gonna kill tankers and scrappers. Obviously you don't care but when the tankers and scrappers dont have a home in the game some other people might
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I think you're totally off base with your comment. It does bother me. This is one group of maybe 50 people that are going to build a supergroup to group together on one server. It is in no way shape or form going to make tankers and scrappers useless. Go rain on someone else's parade. Thank you, come again.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.) - Whitman
Consistency is the defense of a small mind. - Beldin
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No offense TopDoc people that spread ideas like this are evedently gonna kill tankers and scrappers. Obviously you don't care but when the tankers and scrappers dont have a home in the game some other people might
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Don't shoot the messenger. The world is round. It has always been round. You can ignore that fact, and you'll probably do just fine. Most people probably don't care, one way or another. Their lives will go on just fine, whether the world is round, flat, or something else entirely. But if I want to sail around the world, I can't do it alone. I'm posting here to find a crew of like-minded people who are willing to accept that the world might be round, and who want to sail with me and find out. I'm not posting here to convert everyone to the One True Way of playing, and I doubt I could if I tried. There will always be people who refuse to believe that the world is round, and those who just don't like sailing. You can play with them. :-)
If you take a look at Buffer Overrun, my All-Rad SG (link in my sig), you'll see that Update 5 doesn't change anything with regard to Tankers and Scrappers. A well designed SuperTeam can do better than a balanced team containing a wide mix of ATs. This has been true since the beginning of the game, it's just taken me a while to see it.
Even if this does catch on, it'll only be a fad. It took me 6 weeks to go from level 1 to 50 in Buffer Overrun. This SuperTeam looks to be even faster. In a month or so, people playing in this SuperTeam will hit 50 and move on. They'll go right back to playing Tankers, Scrappers, or whatever else they want. I'll go back to playing my current main, a Scrapper. Life will go on.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Topdoc, I'd love to join the SG. I'm rerolling an alt to include sonics, would dark miasma/sonic do?
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Topdoc, I'd love to join the SG. I'm rerolling an alt to include sonics, would dark miasma/sonic do?
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Nope, only Sonics Primary, Kinetics, or Force Fields.
hmm, then sonics will have to do... (goes in mental gearshift to change the concept and backstory)
OK, sonic sonic it is. Too bad dolphin is allready taken on protector, I'll have to come up with a new name (dolphin is my defender on victory who slated to be darl/sonic)
So your SG is trying to create the substitute tankers?...I think thats....you let me speechless...... (cough) thats stupid man, your just asking to get sonic and bubbles nerf aren't ya??.. and besides your trying to destroy the utility of tankers??!?! man I mean its cool and all but your just making them useless and everyone will love to make those only you know.
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So your SG is trying to create the substitute tankers?...I think thats....you let me speechless...... (cough) thats stupid man, your just asking to get sonic and bubbles nerf aren't ya??.. and besides your trying to destroy the utility of tankers??!?! man I mean its cool and all but your just making them useless and everyone will love to make those only you know.
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We are not trying to create substitute tankers..... We are creating a super team. One that will roll over any situation put in front of us. Most of us will make it to 50 in about a month I presume.
In order to have this team work correctly we need 2 ff 2 sonic and 4 kins.... if we were to play with others we would not be "TANKS" its only in the super team setting that we are "tanklike".
So there is absolutely no way we could "replace" tanks outside of the super team, and a whole lot of people will still play tanks. So relax, seriously.
[ QUOTE ]
So your SG is trying to create the substitute tankers?...I think thats....you let me speechless...... (cough) thats stupid man, your just asking to get sonic and bubbles nerf aren't ya??.. and besides your trying to destroy the utility of tankers??!?! man I mean its cool and all but your just making them useless and everyone will love to make those only you know.
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o_O Okay another post like this. People worried about their little tankers becoming superfluous because of things like this need to get over themselves.
First of all, defenders have always been able to buff the hell out of anyone and debuff the hell out of any enemy to make anyone feel like a tank. The problem? The scrappers and tanks were already to the point of unbuffability and controllers could do it themselves... but all defender/blaster teams or even all defender teams are ridiculously good, even when you don't flesh them out this much. It's not just Sonic and FF. It's Empathy, that can turn everyone on the team in to regeneration scrappers, with unlimited endurance, spot healing, and a few with great defenses. It's Dark, which can floor an enemy's accuracy and let blasters walk through groups unscathed, heal, debuff resistances to cause the team to deal more damage, buff defenses. It's Kinetics that can cap everyone's damage, give them unlimited endurance, status resistance, etc. etc.
It's a Super Team. It's a team designed to function better than normal teams and takes off with this design. Designed to only function with other members of the Super Team. It requires strict, specific builds, a hefty amount of people, etc. etc. The builds will only be functional within the Super Group-- that's limiting. Trying to play a character that relies on other people for endurance, relies on others to chain attacks together, doesn't slot powers like they normally would, etc. etc. is going to be garbage in a regular group but a god in a group like this.
It's just like forming a regular SG, but with more power. In teaming regularly with people and organizing specific builds, you can cater to eachothers needs and make one another more powerful. Friend in your regular teaming group wants to make a Stone Tank? Get someone else to play a Kinetics to offset Stone's slowing abilities. Someone wants to play Trick Arrow but doesn't want any Fire abilities to ignite Oil Slick? Get someone to play a Fire blaster. There have ALWAYS been these cutesy power combos that will make for a better team than just a random slew of builds in a pick up group.
This is like complaining that because I have a regular group of people I team with and can thus create a lot of organization, familiarity, base powers off of one another, etc. that I'm exploiting the game and making things like pick up groups superfluous when in actuality I'm accomplishing something that the devs like to see.
How? It's what the devs encourage. They love to see people teaming, and devoting an entire build to teaming to work for one another is, I think, how they wanted the game to be played for those that wanted to do ridiculous things. Blazing through 8 man invincible missions is a feat they wanted to be achievable, and even in I5 it still will be, if you can build a "Super Team" like this.
Well said. I'm getting more than a bit tired of people coming into this thread and not reading all of it and then posting "OMGBBQ U R GOING TO MAKE MI TANK3R CRAP. U SUX0R." Go troll somewhere else. Or actually read the posts before you spaz out. Please?!?
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.) - Whitman
Consistency is the defense of a small mind. - Beldin
Time for an update. It's possible for villains to defeat the Tank Mages. City of Villains specifically. I got into CoV Beta during the first round of invites. Other Tank Mages trickled in. We played CoV during the open windows, and Tank Mages afterwards. Near the end of Beta, we were hardly playing our Tank Mages at all. Now most of the Tank Mages are in Buffer Overdose, a villain group combining the ideas of Buffer Overrun and Tank Mages. Fortunately, we're near 40, so we may get back to playing Tank Mages.
Playing Tank Mages at high levels is pretty simple. Everyone buffs. Someone uses Team TP to move the team around to herd up a few groups. We do lots of Fulcrum Shifts, AoEs, and even nukes. Rebuff and move on.
The Tank Mage thread in the Protector forum went away because it got stale. Oh well. For future Tank Mage stuff, take a look at the Buffer Overrun link in my sig. Or use this:
BufferOverrun.GuildPortal.Com
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
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This may be old hat for some of you, but it might be helpful to others. I find that when I'm playing a character that constantly casts teammate buffs, it's helpful to do a little binding to speed the process along. For my FFer, I did the following:
Create a new text file and save it as c:\coh\deflection.txt with this text:
numpad0 "local Insulation$$bind_load_file c:\coh\insulation.txt"
numpad1 "team_select 1$$powexec_name deflection shield"
numpad2 "team_select 2$$powexec_name deflection shield"
numpad3 "team_select 3$$powexec_name deflection shield"
numpad4 "team_select 4$$powexec_name deflection shield"
numpad5 "team_select 5$$powexec_name deflection shield"
numpad6 "team_select 6$$powexec_name deflection shield"
numpad7 "team_select 7$$powexec_name deflection shield"
numpad8 "team_select 8$$powexec_name deflection shield"
Save as c:\coh\insulation.txt:
numpad0 "local Deflection$$bind_load_file c:\coh\deflection.txt"
numpad1 "team_select 1$$powexec_name insulation shield"
numpad2 "team_select 2$$powexec_name insulation shield"
numpad3 "team_select 3$$powexec_name insulation shield"
numpad4 "team_select 4$$powexec_name insulation shield"
numpad5 "team_select 5$$powexec_name insulation shield"
numpad6 "team_select 6$$powexec_name insulation shield"
numpad7 "team_select 7$$powexec_name insulation shield"
numpad8 "team_select 8$$powexec_name insulation shield"
In game, type:
\bind_load_file c:\coh\deflection.txt
Now, pressing 1 on the num pad will change your target to the first player on your team. Pressing 1 again will cast deflection shield on teammate 1. Pressing 2 on the numpad will do the same for teammate 2 and so on.
Pressing 0 on the numpad will make your toon say "Insulation", and from then on, he wll be casting Insulation Shield on the player you select. Press 0 again to cycle back to deflection shield.
The funny thing about this setup is that pressing a number won't select the teammate and then activate the power immediately. you will need to press the numpad button once to select the teammate and then again to activate the power.
These binds can easily be modified for kinetics speed boost and increase density, or for the two sonic shields.
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I found a keybind set up that allows you to do the team select and the action in ONE keypress and makes my life as a Mind/Kin troller much easier.
/bind NUMPAD1 "+ $$teamselect 1$$powexec_name Speed Boost"
/bind NUMPAD2 "+ $$teamselect 2$$powexec_name Speed Boost"
/bind NUMPAD3 "+ $$teamselect 3$$powexec_name Speed Boost"
/bind NUMPAD4 "+ $$teamselect 4$$powexec_name Speed Boost"
/bind NUMPAD5 "+ $$teamselect 5$$powexec_name Speed Boost"
/bind NUMPAD6 "+ $$teamselect 6$$powexec_name Speed Boost"
/bind NUMPAD7 "+ $$teamselect 7$$powexec_name Speed Boost"
/bind NUMPAD8 "+ $$teamselect 8$$powexec_name Speed Boost"
/bind lshift+NUMPAD1 "+ $$teamselect 1$$powexec_name Transfusion"
/bind lshift+NUMPAD2 "+ $$teamselect 2$$powexec_name Transfusion"
/bind lshift+NUMPAD3 "+ $$teamselect 3$$powexec_name Transfusion"
/bind lshift+NUMPAD4 "+ $$teamselect 4$$powexec_name Transfusion"
/bind lshift+NUMPAD5 "+ $$teamselect 5$$powexec_name Transfusion"
/bind lshift+NUMPAD6 "+ $$teamselect 6$$powexec_name Transfusion"
/bind lshift+NUMPAD7 "+ $$teamselect 7$$powexec_name Transfusion"
/bind lshift+NUMPAD8 "+ $$teamselect 8$$powexec_name Transfusion"
the + in the beginning is the trick. I dont have increase density on this toon, but it could be incorperated in by using alt+numpad... or control, whichever.
Try using this set up for the other primaries too, it does save a key press, and thus some time.
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
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I found a keybind set up that allows you to do the team select and the action in ONE keypress and makes my life as a Mind/Kin troller much easier.
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Ice_Ember, for /bind challenged people like me, this is the post of the decade. 
I'd like to join the TankMages too. I have a lvl 22 FF/Dark on Liberty I could recreate. I'd probably take out fitness & speed and get medicine & teleport instead. Here's the sample build I was thinking of for the team:
Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh
Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Force Field
Secondary Powers - Support : Dark Blast
01 : Dark Blast dam(01) dam(42) dam(45) dam(48) dam(50)
01 : Deflection Shield defbuf(01) defbuf(3) defbuf(3) defbuf(5) defbuf(5) defbuf(11)
02 : Gloom dam(02) dam(42) dam(45) dam(48) dam(50)
04 : Moonbeam dam(04) dam(42) dam(45) dam(48) dam(50)
06 : Insulation Shield defbuf(06) defbuf(7) defbuf(7) defbuf(9) defbuf(9) defbuf(11)
08 : Assault endred(08)
10 : Stimulant inttim(10) inttim(37)
12 : Dispersion Bubble defbuf(12) defbuf(13) defbuf(13) defbuf(17) defbuf(19) defbuf(21)
14 : Tactics thtbuf(14) thtbuf(15) thtbuf(15) thtbuf(17) thtbuf(19) thtbuf(21)
16 : Tenebrous Tentacles dam(16) dam(23) dam(25) dam(27) dam(29)
18 : Maneuvers defbuf(18) defbuf(31) defbuf(33) defbuf(34) defbuf(36) defbuf(37)
20 : Night Fall dam(20) dam(23) dam(25) dam(27) dam(29)
22 : Grant Invisibility defbuf(22) defbuf(31) defbuf(33) defbuf(34) defbuf(36) defbuf(37)
24 : Dark Pit disdur(24)
26 : Aid Other inttim(26) inttim(40) hel(40) hel(46) hel(46) hel(46)
28 : Torrent dam(28) dam(31) dam(33) dam(34) dam(36)
30 : Resuscitate recred(30)
32 : Force Bubble endred(32)
35 : Recall Friend endred(35)
38 : Blackstar dam(38) dam(39) dam(39) dam(39) dam(40)
41 : Teleport endred(41) rng(43) rng(43) rng(43)
44 : Power Buildup recred(44)
47 : Invisibility defbuf(47)
49 : Phase Shift endred(49)
-------------------------------------------
01 : Brawl enhancement(01)
01 : Sprint enhancement(01)
02 : Rest enhancement(02)
As you can see I emphasize my bubbles initially. It isn't until my 20s do I really slot my attacks. Let me know if you think I should slot attacks a bit more early. Great idea you have here TopDoc.