The new SuperTeam, Tank Mages


5th_Player

 

Posted

No problem, I am glad I could assist. Once i learned how to make binds... I now use them on every toon.

/bind p "powexec_name siphon speed$$target_enemy_near"
/bind o "powexec_name Transfusion$$target_enemy_near"
/bind g "powexec_name Speed Boost"
/bind lshift+g "team Gather for your Speed."

here are a few more


Is this SG still active btw?


YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember

 

Posted

Yep, we recently started playing again. Most of our villains hit 40 in Buffer Overdose, so we've gone back to Tank Mages till the villain level cap is raised. We'll probably be playing Monday-Thursday evenings in big teams. We're on Protector. If you're interested, look us up. Unfortunately, we'll probably be doing some of the high level trials and task forces soon, so you won't be able to participate unless you already have a high level char or can catch up REALLY QUICK.


Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304

 

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If you take a look at Buffer Overrun, my All-Rad SG (link in my sig), you'll see that Update 5 doesn't change anything with regard to Tankers and Scrappers. A well designed SuperTeam can do better than a balanced team containing a wide mix of ATs. This has been true since the beginning of the game, it's just taken me a while to see it.

Even if this does catch on, it'll only be a fad. It took me 6 weeks to go from level 1 to 50 in Buffer Overrun. This SuperTeam looks to be even faster. In a month or so, people playing in this SuperTeam will hit 50 and move on. They'll go right back to playing Tankers, Scrappers, or whatever else they want. I'll go back to playing my current main, a Scrapper. Life will go on.

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I'll make this post as a follow-up to the whole Tank Mage experience. We ended up with getting 5 regular players, one of whom had two accounts, and picked up 2 non-regular players or two random kin, FF, or Sonic randoms most of the time, and occasionally blasters or other toons at other times.

We absolutely flew through the levels and demolished everything. By the time we hit lvl 50 after about 200 hours of play, we had done every task force except Positron (becasue we outleveled it too quickly) and the 4th Shard TF, because we hit 50 first.

True to TopDoc's prediction, this Superteam did not endure as an active super group. It is all but retired now. However, as someone who has played this game a lot, I must say that my esperience with the Tank Mages was the best time I have had in this game. We did some incredible feats, such as dropping the Crystal Titan in under a minute, without clearing his room first, and then dropping the thousand or so mobs that charged at us in maybe an additional minute.

In any case, TopDoc has a nice synopsis of the Tank Mage philosophy that anybody can read. If you have a grp of friends that can form a large enough team and play together regularly, you will not regret forming a team like this. So have a great time, and tell me how it goes


 

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[BUMP] to avoid thread deletion


 

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I'm big on SuperTeams. That means teams that are more than just a group of people playing together. SuperTeams are teams that are SIGNIFICANTLY more than the sum of their parts.

My first SuperTeam was all-Rads. Why is an all-Rad team a SuperTeam? Because the team buffs and mob debuffs, stacked up to 8 times, are just sickly overpowering. See the SG link in my sig for the gory details. I founded the Buffer Overrun Super Group and recruited lots of Radiation/* Defenders and */Radiation Controllers. It took me 6 weeks to level a Controller from 1 to 50. We had another round of recruiting less than a month ago, and we already have multiple level 50 characters. I could make another Rad, but I want to try something new.

With Update 5, my new SuperTeam is gonna be Tank Mages. You know, the thing Statesman always says he is trying to avoid. A Tank Mage is a ranged attacker with great offense and defense. Why is it bad? Well, you don't need anyone else. You just stand there and blast mobs at range. No need for Tankers or Scrappers to Taunt, Challenge, or Provoke mobs and manage agro. No need for Controllers to control the mobs. Tank Mages have enough Defense that mob attacks can be ignored. You blast at the mobs till they decide to run, then you snipe the runners!

What AT do you need? Defenders. Nothing else. What sort of Defenders? Mainly Sonic Debuff (soon to be Sonic Resonance), and Force Field. How does it work? At low levels, Force Field Defenders can give teammates bubbles that provide Defense against most forms of damage. Sonic Debuff Defenders can give people bubble equivalents that provide Resistance. Stack a few Force Field bubbles, even the reduced ones from Update 5, and you'll drop a mobs chance to hit down to 5% for most forms of damage. Stack a few Sonic bubbles, and you'll hit the 75% Resistance cap. You will hardly ever be hit, and if you are it will hardly hurt.

How many of each Defender type do you need? It takes 4 Sonics at low levels to cap Resistance, only 3 at level 12 with some Dual Origin Enhancements, and only 2 at level 22 with Single Origin Enhancements (based on the numbers I've heard). Note that since they can't bubble themselves, the Sonics would have significantly reduced Resistance if there were only 2. Against mobs with -RES debuffs, that could be deadly. You don't really need to cap Resistance at low levels, since mobs don't hit too hard. That means 3 is a good number of Sonics to have for the entire 1-50 range. I don't know about the numbers for Force Field, but I would expect 3 would be appropriate. Using 4 of either would be overkill, and we have a limited number of slots.

Protection from status effects is important too. Force Field Defenders get Dispersion Bubble at level 12 which provides protection from Hold, Immob, and Disorient. Sonic Debuff Defenders get a sonic equivalent. Stacked 6 times, taking into account the 5% chance to be hit, you don't have to worry about those status effects. If you're worried about Knockback, take Acrobatics.

That's the tanking part, now for the Mage part. How can a bunch of Defenders do a lot of damage? Well, Sonics get a debuff that can lower mob Resistance. Stack that a few times, and the mobs are gonna be taking a LOT more damage than usual. Anyone know the resistance debuff cap? Defenders get a decent DMG bonus fron Leadership : Assault, and you can stack that 8 times if everyone takes it. If you have Assault, you might as well take Tactics, to give everyone a huge To Hit bonus (huge when stacked 8 times). (No need for Maneuvers, it's useless compared to Force Fields.) Attacks can be slotted for damage only. If I've done my math right, you can slot attacks with 5 green Damage SOs and be at the damage cap. No need to take Aim, it's a wasted power.

Also, no need for Defense, Damage, or Accuracy Inspirations either. I found with all-Rads in Buffer Overrun that Inspirations are almost forgotten.

It looks like we only need 6 Defenders to make us tanks. That leaves 2 more slots for other chars. Why 8 players? You get more bosses, more mobs, higher level mobs (for teams of 6+), and a high team size XP bonus (x2.3). That means more and better Enhancement drops, a higher Influence/XP ratio (so you can buy better Enhancements), and faster levels all around. SuperTeams are big teams.

To be a SuperTeam, the other 2 slots have to make a significant contribution to the team as a whole. Defenders again are the best choice. Granted Blasters could do higher damage, they don't help the team. And believe me, this team can put mobs down fast enough without Blaster damage. The last 2 slots are for Kinetics Defenders. They have a situational Heal, which is probably all we'll ever need (when someone forgets to refresh bubbles). They have Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift, both of which increase the damage capacity of the entire team while reducing the damage done by mobs. This means higher team damage at low levels, and the ability to respec slots out of attacks at higher levels, ideally to improve team oriented powers. They have Increase Density to protect against Knockback, the only thing Dispersion Bubble doesn't cover. It also acts as Clear Mind in case someone is mezzed. They have Speed Boost and Inertial Reduction to give the team faster movement. Speed Boost and Transference help with Endurance, and Speed Boost also provides a Recharge Reduction bonus on everything. Kinetics Defenders fill the holes in the team nicely, and reduce downtime.

We should also discuss Secondary power sets. Remember the SuperTeam concept; you want power sets that work well in the team. AoE is VERY GOOD, as you'll always be facing large groups of mobs. When I refer to AoE below, I'm referring to the fast recharge AoEs, not the BIG NUKES at the end of each secondary.

Electric is OK alone, but should work well if several people take it. Given the Leadership bonuses, you can slot up the key powers for heavy Endurance Drain. Stacked from multiple people, it might be effective at stoping mobs from doing much. While we're not too worried about mobs attacking, it's still a good idea. It has 2 AoEs (one is PBAoE) that come at very low level and a virtual pet.

Energy is not good for this group. It has 2 AoEs, but one comes at 35. It does knockback, which isn't all that necessary. There are better choices.

Dark is a serious contender. It has 3 cones (one Immob, one Knockback), plus an AoE disorient, and decent single target damage. It gives mobs a -ACC debuff, good for AVs or buffed mobs that might otherwise hit through the Force Fields. It even has a heal at level 35. What's not to like?

Psychic is probably another one to skip. It has 2 AoEs and various status effects, but it falls far short of Dark.

Radiation is fairly good. It has 3 AoEs (1 PBAoE), 2 of which come early, but 1 comes at 35. Single target damage is fast but lower than dark. The attacks give a -DEF debuff, which can help at low levels.

I don't know enough about the new Archery set to make an informed decision. Compared to Dark, can anyone tell me how it rates?

Sonic Attacks are probably not necessary unless they have nice AoEs. Their secondary effect of -RES debuff is already handled by the Sonic Debuff Primary.

I think the following is the best mix or primaries and secondaries.

3 Sonic/Dark Defenders
3 FF/Elec Defenders
2 Kinetics/Dark Defenders

Why those? Let me explain. But first you have to remember, these are Tank Mages. They are not afraid to get into melee combat. They have the equivalent of Update 4 Invuln Scrapper Ressitance with Invincibility for Defense.

Step 1: Everyone jumps RIGHT INTO THE MIDDLE of the mobs!
Step 2: Sonics use -RES debuffs
Kins hit Siphon Power (bosses) or Fulcrum Shift at level 32
FFs hit Short Circuit (near bosses)
Step 3: Kins hit Transfusion (bosses) if anyone needs healing
Everyone backs up a bit, with the Darks using cone immobs
Step 4: AoE or single target attack till everything drops
Step 5: Refresh bubbles or other buffs if necessary

There are a couple other aspects of a SuperTeam. For Movement, it would be nice if 2 or more people took Teleport with Recall Friend. They can move the entire team around quickly and easily, and it's great for moving SKs before they get their movement power.

It would be nice if 2 or more people took Concealment: Grant Invisibility. This will give the entire team full invisibility.

It would be nice if 2 or more people took the Medicine pool. An out of combat heal will often be handy, Stimulant may be necessary against particularly mez heavy mobs, and you never know when you'll need a Resuscitate.

Everyone should take Leadership, most people will take Fitness, and most people will take a conventional movement power (Flying, Super Leaping, or Super Speed). Note that the Kins can give Inertial Reduction, and we'll have TPers, so Hasten plus Super Speed works just fine for movement.

That leaves one extra power pool from the above set. If the Kins skip a movement power (because they can), they can pick 2 of the above. Between 8 of us, we should be able to cover all of the pools with lots of overlap.

By the way, this isn't all carved in stone. Only the primaries are carved in stone. Secondaries and pools are not. If you really want Archery, go ahead. If you really don't want Leadership, then skip it. But remember, every team oriented power you take helps the entire team.

One last thing... Pick you enemies! This team is very weak against Psychic enemies. We avoid them! The best targets are those who are weak to negative energy. We fight them a lot! Simple.

This is my plan. Does anyone have any constructive criticism? Is there anything I missed? Anything you would do differently? If so, please post here, and explain why it would be better?

Finally, I'd like to try this out on test. I'm probably going to be on the Test Server tonight (Friday, July 22) around 9:45 PM EST in Atlas Park looking for people to try this. My global chat handle is @TopDoc on live and test.

If you want in, feel free to post here to reserve a spot. But make sure you're on by 10:15 PM EST tonight. Otherwise, it's first come, first served. I'm only available in the evenings, though sometimes I get a little spare time on the weekends. I usually play from 8:00 PM EST till 11:00 or midnight or so.

If this works out very well, I'll likely want to continue it once Update 5 goes live. Those interested can post here or otherwise let me know. We'll pick a server.

Let me start by reserving a character. I'll be a FF/Elec Defender. For pool powers, I'll take Leadership, Fitness, Speed, and Teleport. I like Teleport, and I used it in all-Rad teams to move people around fast.

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With 8 people with assault and them all being defenders thats:113% enhnacment damage, then with fulcrumshift and siphon power, we can safely assume that you will be at around 200-250% enhanced damage. Bravo. I highly suggest taking manuevers (with 3 EDefense slots). with 8 people thats: 24% Enhanced Defense. This -Could- change one FFer to Rad/???. Radiation for lingering radiation, IM, EMP, etc. Everyone loves a Rad/???. Rad/??? + Kin/??? are like brothers. They work too well together to pass up. Icrease Motabolism increases attack and speed. That should boost enhanced damage to 240-290% (considering they will easily be able to keep two up at a time with speed boost and 3 recharge) So i highly suggest that. Tactics shouldnt be a 8-person requirement. Mabye 4. But i like this all-defender team. Defenders are the best! (no really... we are)


Whining about everything since 2006.

Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484

 

Posted

it is quite hard to find a superteam, or to keep one together for that matter. usually people start disappearing around 20ish.


"PvP Messiah"