Just to add my two cents on Kinetics: transference is indeed sick, but it comes with some downsides: it's a target-based AoE that requires the defender to hit the target. If you're planning on taking higher level minions, both the blue and green heals of kinetics, while powerful, tend to miss more. So unless your SG has a way to mitigate target def a la Buffer Overrun, these heals won't be reliable.
My kinetics def regularly needs to dip into the blue heal due to her running two leadership toggles and consistent attacking/buffing/healing. She has 6-slotted stamina and duos with a recovery-aura spamming Emp def. When she misses with transference, there goes those toggles.
The presence of two kins will help to self-boost everybody, as speed boost slotted for stamina is much more useful than run speed, which tends to get in the way in cramped environments and laggy conditions.
Missed out on the most recent wave of Buffer Overrun due to alt-itis and life commitments, but I wish you good luck on this SG. Sounds fun!
Would there be a set time/day where most can get on at the same time?
I'd be interested, no pref on defender type I can make whatever is needed.
[ QUOTE ]
curbludgeon: Just to add my two cents on Kinetics:...
[/ QUOTE ]
Take another look at my later posts. It looks like we'll have 4 Kinetics in the team. That means 3 Speed Boosts on the Kins, and 4 on the others. Taking the Fitness pool only helps yourself. Speed Boost is better than all of the Fitness powers combined except for Health, and it can be cast on every teammate.
Four Kinetics means 4 Transferences, recharging in about 12 seconds each. If everyone takes Tactics which I REALLY STRONGLY recommend, they'll hit 95% if the time against +4s. Of course they won't be needed. I'd like to see you run out of Endurance with 3 fully slotted Speed Boosts on you.
Transfusion when 6 slotted for Healing will heal about 70% of your HP, and has a recharge time of about 3 seconds. Again with Tactics it will hit 95% of the time.
The SuperTeam is a completely different way to play City of Heroes. Ignore personal buffs. Focus on team buffs. A single person with Tactics is supposedly as good as an Accuracy SO in every power of every person in the team. One Assault is the same as a Damage DO. Carry this further. Every one power or slot you save everyone on the team is 7 powers or slots they can use to make the team better in some way. Very quickly, you find the team can take and slot every single team buff power that will be useful.
I want unlimited Endurance without having to take 6 slotted Stamina. I want high damage AND fast recharging AND high accuracy BIG NUKES. I want to 6 slot buffs and other useful powers without having to worry about cookie-cutter slotting my attacks for 1 Accuracy / 5 Damage. I want great Defense and Resistance, without having to play a melee oriented Tanker or Scrapper and waste a lot of powers and slots. And all I have to do is convince enough other people that they can play the same way if they want, and keep things organized once it gets going. (Don't worry, I'll stop preaching completely once this gets going and we have enough people. I'm not out to change the way everyone plays, I just want enough people to team with.)
It took a while with Buffer Overrun. I had to bribe people to play in an all-Rad Defender team, just to get them to try it. Lots of people didn't take Leadership. They took Hasten, Stamina, and Stealth because they wanted to play outside the SG.
Maybe the same thing will happen with Tank Mages. Or maybe I'll get enough people who want to play the same way I do, at the same time I do, and I'll have a lot of fun getting to level 50 in a month.
[ QUOTE ]
Shadow_Hit: Would there be a set time/day where most can get on at the same time?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd hope most every evening. I start around 8:00 PM EST, and I end between 11:00 PM and 2:00 AM. While there are some who play more than I, there are probably plenty who play less. Maybe the fanatics like me can alternate 2 different chars, just so we can always have the right mix of chars if someone is missing.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
This sounds like a lot of fun. Nothing better than a team of team-oriented players working together with a common strategy. I would enjoy participating, but I suspect RL will get in the way of playing every night. Still, I will keep an eye on these posts and try to join in when I-5 goes live.
Have you thought about having a common name/costume element or other such thing to identify team members? At one point I was talking with some others about an Ice-oriented SG, where all the names would have "Ice" as the last name. We were sure common ones, like Italian, Vanilla, Black and Blue would be taken, but we were aiming more for names like Kickyer and Saviour. I knew a group of tanks, where they had a common last name of "Sherman." Of course, there is a multitude of Dark/Electric Defenders with "Darth" as the first name. I know it seems silly, but it creates sort of a team feeling about things. We could use "Tankmage" as a first name. Or use something shorter, like "Tkmg." Just a thought . . .
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
8x Assault (Def) = 8x 18.75% = 150% Damage
Halfway to the damage cap and no Kin involved. After a Fulcrum Shift additional Kins will only provide increased recharge & endurance recovery (and running into walls ability 
).
4x AM = +100% Dam, +120% Recharge & good endurance recovery. 50% away from the cap (w 8x Assault), 2 SO Dam to hit it. Rad primary also removes the need for mass /Sonic to hit the -Res cap and lets you pick more AoE centric secondaries. Less recharge buff than 4x Speed Boost but the rest of the RE powers seem like they work better in this setting.
You could also go 2x Kin & 2x Emp with the Emps focusing on RecAura & RegAura.
Possible templates:
Sonic (2 of these)
Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Sonic
Secondary Powers - Support : Sonic Blast
01 : Shriek Empty(01) Empty(11) Empty(13)
01 : Sonic Barrier Empty(01) Empty(3) Empty(3) Empty(5) Empty(5) Empty(36)
02 : Sonic Haven Empty(02) Empty(7) Empty(7) Empty(9) Empty(9) Empty(37)
04 : Scream Empty(04) Empty(15) Empty(15)
06 : Howl Empty(06) Empty(11) Empty(13)
08 : Sonic Siphon Empty(08)
10 : Disruption Field Empty(10)
12 : Assault Empty(12)
14 : Tactics Empty(14) Empty(17) Empty(17) Empty(19) Empty(19) Empty(21)
16 : Shout Empty(16) Empty(40) Empty(43)
18 : Maneuvers Empty(18) Empty(21) Empty(23) Empty(23) Empty(25) Empty(25)
20 : Vengeance Empty(20) Empty(27) Empty(27) Empty(29) Empty(29) Empty(31)
22 : Clarity Empty(22) Empty(46) Empty(50)
24 : Amplify Empty(24)
26 : Sonic Dispersion Empty(26) Empty(31) Empty(31) Empty(33) Empty(33) Empty(33)
28 : Recall Friend Empty(28)
30 : Teleport Empty(30)
32 : Liquefy Empty(32) Empty(34) Empty(34) Empty(34) Empty(36) Empty(36)
35 : Screech Empty(35) Empty(37) Empty(37)
38 : Dreadful Wail Empty(38) Empty(39) Empty(39) Empty(39) Empty(40) Empty(40)
41 : Dominate Empty(41) Empty(42) Empty(42) Empty(42) Empty(43) Empty(43)
44 : Mind over Body Empty(44) Empty(45) Empty(45) Empty(45) Empty(46) Empty(46)
47 : Telekinesis Empty(47) Empty(48) Empty(48) Empty(48) Empty(50) Empty(50)
49 : Siren's Song Empty(49)
Force Fielder (2 of these)
Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Force Field
Secondary Powers - Support : Electrical Blast
01 : Charged Bolts Empty(01) Empty(34) Empty(34)
01 : Deflection Shield Empty(01) Empty(3) Empty(3) Empty(5) Empty(5) Empty(7)
02 : Lightning Bolt Empty(02) Empty(33) Empty(33)
04 : Ball Lightning Empty(04) Empty(31) Empty(33)
06 : Insulation Shield Empty(06) Empty(7) Empty(9) Empty(9) Empty(11) Empty(11)
08 : Assault Empty(08)
10 : Short CIrcuit Empty(10) Empty(17) Empty(19)
12 : Dispersion Bubble Empty(12) Empty(13) Empty(13) Empty(15) Empty(15) Empty(17)
14 : Tactics Empty(14) Empty(19) Empty(21) Empty(27) Empty(37) Empty(37)
16 : Recall Friend Empty(16)
18 : Maneuvers Empty(18) Empty(21) Empty(23) Empty(23) Empty(25) Empty(25)
20 : Vengeance Empty(20) Empty(27) Empty(29) Empty(29) Empty(31) Empty(31)
22 : Teleport Empty(22)
24 : Zapp Empty(24) Empty(36)
26 : Grant Invisibility Empty(26)
28 : Tesla Cage Empty(28) Empty(34) Empty(36) Empty(36)
30 : Invisibility Empty(30)
32 : Phase Shift Empty(32)
35 : Voltaic Sentinel Empty(35) Empty(37) Empty(39) Empty(39) Empty(39) Empty(40)
38 : Thunderous Blast Empty(38) Empty(40) Empty(40) Empty(43) Empty(46) Empty(50)
41 : Dominate Empty(41) Empty(42) Empty(42) Empty(42) Empty(43) Empty(43)
44 : Mind over Body Empty(44) Empty(45) Empty(45) Empty(45) Empty(46) Empty(46)
47 : Telekinesis Empty(47) Empty(48) Empty(48) Empty(48) Empty(50) Empty(50)
49 : Force Bubble Empty(49)
Radiation (possibly 4 of these)
Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Radiation Emission
Secondary Powers - Support : Electrical Blast
01 : Charged Bolts Empty(01) Empty(34) Empty(34)
01 : Radiant Aura Empty(01) Empty(15) Empty(15)
02 : Accelerate Metabolism Empty(02) Empty(3) Empty(3) Empty(5) Empty(5) Empty(7)
04 : Ball Lightning Empty(04) Empty(7) Empty(9)
06 : Enervating Field Empty(06) Empty(9)
08 : Assault Empty(08)
10 : Short CIrcuit Empty(10) Empty(11) Empty(11)
12 : Lingering Radiation Empty(12) Empty(13) Empty(13)
14 : Tactics Empty(14) Empty(17) Empty(17) Empty(19) Empty(19) Empty(21)
16 : Recall Friend Empty(16)
18 : Maneuvers Empty(18) Empty(21) Empty(23) Empty(23) Empty(25) Empty(25)
20 : Vengeance Empty(20) Empty(27) Empty(29) Empty(29) Empty(31) Empty(31)
22 : Teleport Empty(22)
24 : Radiation Infection Empty(24)
26 : Fallout Empty(26) Empty(27) Empty(31) Empty(33) Empty(33) Empty(33)
28 : Tesla Cage Empty(28) Empty(43) Empty(46)
30 : Zapp Empty(30) Empty(40) Empty(50)
32 : EMP Pulse Empty(32) Empty(34) Empty(36)
35 : Voltaic Sentinel Empty(35) Empty(36) Empty(36) Empty(37) Empty(37) Empty(37)
38 : Thunderous Blast Empty(38) Empty(39) Empty(39) Empty(39) Empty(40) Empty(40)
41 : Dominate Empty(41) Empty(42) Empty(42) Empty(42) Empty(43) Empty(43)
44 : Mind over Body Empty(44) Empty(45) Empty(45) Empty(45) Empty(46) Empty(46)
47 : Telekinesis Empty(47) Empty(48) Empty(48) Empty(48) Empty(50) Empty(50)
49 : Mutation Empty(49)
Empath (possibly 2)
Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Empathy
Secondary Powers - Support : Electrical Blast
01 : Charged Bolts Empty(01) Empty(7) Empty(9)
01 : Heal Other Empty(01) Empty(3) Empty(3)
02 : Lightning Bolt Empty(02) Empty(5) Empty(5)
04 : Ball Lightning Empty(04) Empty(7) Empty(9)
06 : Assault Empty(06)
08 : Maneuvers Empty(08) Empty(13) Empty(13) Empty(25) Empty(31) Empty(31)
10 : Short CIrcuit Empty(10) Empty(11) Empty(11)
12 : Clear Mind Empty(12)
14 : Tactics Empty(14) Empty(15) Empty(15) Empty(17) Empty(17) Empty(23)
16 : Resurrect Empty(16)
18 : Recovery Aura Empty(18) Empty(19) Empty(19) Empty(21) Empty(21) Empty(23)
20 : Vengeance Empty(20) Empty(25) Empty(27) Empty(27) Empty(29) Empty(29)
22 : Recall Friend Empty(22)
24 : Fortitude Empty(24)
26 : Regeneration Aura Empty(26) Empty(31) Empty(33) Empty(33) Empty(33) Empty(34)
28 : Tesla Cage Empty(28) Empty(43) Empty(46)
30 : Zapp Empty(30) Empty(40) Empty(50)
32 : Adrenalin Boost Empty(32) Empty(34) Empty(34) Empty(36)
35 : Voltaic Sentinel Empty(35) Empty(36) Empty(36) Empty(37) Empty(37) Empty(37)
38 : Thunderous Blast Empty(38) Empty(39) Empty(39) Empty(39) Empty(40) Empty(40)
41 : Dominate Empty(41) Empty(42) Empty(42) Empty(42) Empty(43) Empty(43)
44 : Mind over Body Empty(44) Empty(45) Empty(45) Empty(45) Empty(46) Empty(46)
47 : Telekinesis Empty(47) Empty(48) Empty(48) Empty(48) Empty(50) Empty(50)
49 : Healing Aura Empty(49)
Kinetic (possibly 2 or 4 of these)
Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Kinetics
Secondary Powers - Support : Electrical Blast
01 : Charged Bolts Empty(01) Empty(3) Empty(3)
01 : Tranfusion Empty(01) Empty(5) Empty(5) Empty(7) Empty(7)
02 : Siphon Power Empty(02) Empty(9) Empty(9)
04 : Ball Lightning Empty(04) Empty(11) Empty(11)
06 : Assault
08 : Increase Density Empty(08)
10 : Short CIrcuit Empty(10) Empty(13) Empty(13)
12 : Speed Boost Empty(12) Empty(15) Empty(15) Empty(17) Empty(17) Empty(19)
14 : Tactics Empty(14) Empty(19) Empty(21) Empty(21) Empty(23) Empty(23)
16 : Maneuvers Empty(16) Empty(25) Empty(25) Empty(27) Empty(27) Empty(29)
18 : Inertial Reduction Empty(18)
20 : Vengeance Empty(20) Empty(29) Empty(31) Empty(31) Empty(31) Empty(33)
22 : Lightning Bolt Empty(22) Empty(33) Empty(33)
24 : Aim Empty(24)
26 : Transference Empty(26) Empty(34) Empty(36) Empty(36) Empty(34)
28 : Tesla Cage Empty(28) Empty(36) Empty(37)
30 : Siphon Speed Empty(30)
32 : Fulcrum Shift Empty(32) Empty(37) Empty(37) Empty(34)
35 : Voltaic Sentinel Empty(35) Empty(39) Empty(39) Empty(39) Empty(40)
38 : Thunderous Blast Empty(38) Empty(42) Empty(40) Empty(40) Empty(42) Empty(42)
41 : Dominate Empty(41) Empty(45) Empty(45) Empty(43) Empty(43) Empty(43)
44 : Mind over Body Empty(44) Empty(50) Empty(46) Empty(46) Empty(46) Empty(45)
47 : Telekinesis Empty(47) Empty(48) Empty(48) Empty(48) Empty(50) Empty(50)
49 : Repel Empty(49)
Possibly not the best builds in the world, but before you try to shoot them down remember that they are intended to work in a high endurance, high recharge environment and that they will be close to the damage cap, have high accuracy and excelent defenses almost all the time. They're meant to work together, preferably in teams of 8.
Secondary set & pools (except Leadership) are more or less interchangable, though you'd want to cap -Res with as few as possible and as much AoE as possible on the rest. The order of many powers is not all that important either. Excact slotting is important for some powers but others can use more or less as to individual taste.
Psionic APP chosen for the Psionic resistance, Electric Blast chosen for the 2 early AoEs (Short Circuit used for damage is rather decent) and Voltaic Sentinel can add more damage later on. Teleport pool chosen for Recall Friend which can easily come in handy.
Hi TopDoc,
I would like to try this out with you guys.
I'll try to get to test tonight and hook up with you. I've got a sonic/Sonic on test though he's only a baby. I have several copies of my kin there too.
I'm willing to try any server once this goes live. I can bank Roll on Pinnacle if you need it. My 50 is a Kin/elec there.
Ive tested out my friends lvl 50 sonic/sonic defender on test, and I can tell you that if liquify goes to live how it is, and enough sonic defenders level that high, teams like this wont even bother casting their defensive buffs. Imagine EQ + RI.
-- Currently Playing --
Dexter Labrynth (SS/FA Brute)
Former member of Tribute and Victory Reborn
I love this idea - I have been wondering what server to roll my sonic/arch defender on - I guess I just found out!
Ill join your globla channel tonight 
you got me on the first page when I5 goes live expect to see my Sonic on Protector
sniker were geting a lot of sonic bu thats not bad in theory since its a SG we coud have a couple 8 man teams
See you on protector TopDog
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
woot! Go Protector!
I cant join the SG, as all my toons go into my main SG, but I would be happy and glad to join up with you guys at any time, as well as bankroll you for influence (my tank has about 140 million)
-- Currently Playing --
Dexter Labrynth (SS/FA Brute)
Former member of Tribute and Victory Reborn
I also have a TS2 voice comms that we can use if we so with (actually anybody can use it). It is a dedicated server so it can handle as many of us that wish to use it. When we finally meet up, I'll give out the URL.
Bad news on Resistance. I can't determine it at low levels with Sonics. By the time we stacked up enough attacks (with Resistance buffs), even bosses died.
We had 3 Sonics using Howl, Scream, and Shriek. Those are all 20% Restance debuffs. We had 1 using Sonic Siphon, which is a 30% debuff. We were all level 4 versus a level 4 Eidolon, which doesn't appear to have any resistance to our attacks or debuffs. We tried against several bosses, but they were too fragile. I saw a Scream get up to +150% damage right before a boss died. Note that these were level 4 chars, so accuracy was a bit of a problem.
I'm going to bed somewhat early tonight. I'm not going to be on tomorrow night, but Thursday I'll grab as many Rads as I can and we'll try EF. Maybe that will give us the answer.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
i dont plan on going to work tomorrow, so I think ive got most of the day to play CoH. i think im gonna take this time to use my friends lvl 50 sonic defender and crunch some numbers. Just got a few questions for when im testing...
1. Do res debuffs work directly off of total damage? (ie. your attack has a base of 10 dmg, its enhanced to do 100. would a 30% debuff make that damage 130?)
2. Is there an easy way to test accuracy? (I want to test out the debuff on liquify, but with its constant knockdown, it would be near impossible to test through lots of trials and checking to see how often they miss)
-- Currently Playing --
Dexter Labrynth (SS/FA Brute)
Former member of Tribute and Victory Reborn
res debuffs work off total.
i wanna do this too. Virtue is my home, but pro(server) is fine with me. I love these theme'd teams.
So in a perfect 8 would consist of 4 kins, 2 sonics and 2 ff's?
i suggest 3 leadership powers to cover the open spots.
at least 3 /sonics. i like /dark's aoe's. /elec's is ok, but i like short circuit, so i will not be taking /elec.
Theme. hmmm, i suggest, wizards met power rangers as far as we are all dressed the same but rock out to different colors.
Great Idea!!! I love it....
I'd like to get in on this SG too, please add me to the list.
I'm sure alot of people will have at least a couple of toons, I've started a Kin/Elec on Protector today. I'll look for you, Topdoc. Are you going to be using TankerWannabe on Protector too?
I think the team looks something like:
2 Force Field defenders
2 Dark Miasma Defenders - mainly to patch the psi-hole.
2 Sonic Resonance Defenders
2 Kinetics Defenders
Secondary choices should include Sonic for debuff, and Psi for the extra damage type. Endurance drain should not be a particularly effective option at the higher levels, and unnecessary at the lower onces.
Game Plan: At the lower levels, go after clocks - the Kinetics have Increase Density which will offer additional damage resistance to Smashing/Energy. A side trip to Positron is probably a good option as well, and Synapse is obviously ideal.
[ QUOTE ]
Secondary choices should include Sonic for debuff, and Psi for the extra damage type. Endurance drain should not be a particularly effective option at the higher levels, and unnecessary at the lower onces.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't select Electrical Blast for the energy drain, in fact you'll probably find that with a team like this you won't even notice any secondary effect beyond -Res. Electrical Blast was chosen for the 2 early AoEs (Short Circuit deals almost as much damage as Ball Lightning with similar slotting) and Tesla Cage to some degree.
At 40+ you start running into stuff (other than robots) which is heavily Psi resistant, if you just streethunt to avoid those then your damage type does not matter. Psi Blast also has to wait until level 28 for a second AoE and you have to take a subpar single target blast at level 1.
Spreading damage types isn't a bad idea, but you should not overspecialize in Psi unless you enjoy frustration against robots and massive /Sonic isn't good AoE capabilities either.
Just a word or two in response. OK, maybe a little more than that.
[ QUOTE ]
Local_Man: Have you thought about having a common name/costume element or other such thing to identify team members?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not yet. But I'm thinking now that you asked...
The SG is all Defender. I think Blue and White would be appropriate colors, with some sort or Shield as the chest symbol.
Why are we together? I like the idea someone came up with for an all Destroyer SG in CoV. We're together because no one else wants us. The Kins have been kicked out of teams because of their unreliable heals. The FFs and Sonics are tired of hearing "r u healer". We've sat around LFT for hours.
Then one day, someone (Tanker Wannabe) realized that we didn't need other heroes. Certain combinations of powers working together could make a team unstoppable, far better than a team with non-Defenders. So he went around carefully recruiting the proper Defenders, explaining the idea. He was just looking for enough people to form a single team, but word spread.
In no time he was being hounded, in live and on test via global chat. I mean on the phone. Everyone wanted to be his (global) friend. There were a lot of Defenders who really wanted to make a difference, but they just couldn't because they were always rejected by non-Defenders. So Tanker Wannabe created a Super Group to organize the Defenders.
He turned into his own worst enemy. He found himself rejecting Storm Defenders, Rads, Darks, and even Empaths, because they didn't fit his vision of the perfect team. He felt sorry for them, but he wasn't willing to compromise the group he was trying to put together. He would often discuss their abilities and potential, but none of them could come up with a reason why they would be better that his preferred Defenders, Kinetics, Sonics, and Force Fields.
Tanker Wannabe wasn't quite so sure what the perfect Defender attack was. He thought it was Sonics, but he wasn't quite sure. In the end, he allowed any Defender with the proper primary power set in to the SG.
[I think Technology origin characters would work best based on the mobs we'll likely face. But that doesn't really have anything to do with the SG background.]
[ QUOTE ]
WingedKagouti: [various things about Rads replacing Kins]
[/ QUOTE ]
Accelerate Metabolism is great, but it doesn't belong here. It takes a lot of slotting with Recharge Reduction to make it perma. It provides less than half the Endurance Recovery that Speed Boost does, and it can't be slotted much to enhance that. That's not enough to allow people to skip Stamina. It provides a smaller Recharge Reduction bonus than Speed Boost. It provides a smaller run speed bonus than Speed Boost. It provides the same damage buff as Siphon Power, and is better in that respect because it doesn't need a target. But Siphon Power can be stacked at least twice with a little help from Speed Boost. (This is important in slotting, see below.)
Radiation Infection reduces mobs To Hit and Defense. We have Force Fields and Tactics which do the same thing, though far better and against every mob.
Enervating Field reduces mob damage and Resistance. We have Sonic Bubbles and Sonic Attacks which do the same thing, though far better and against every mob.
Rads don't get anything like Fulcrum Shift or Inertial Reduction.
Instead, Rads get Mutation and Fallout, which can only be used if your teammates are defeated. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I don't see people on this team being defeated very often. Rads also get Holds in Choking Cloud and EM Pulse, and a Slow in Lingering Radiation. Given the defenses in this team, I don't think mobs need to be held or slowed.
Once the characters hit 32 and the Kins get Fulcrum Shift, it'll be easier to be capped all the time.
[ QUOTE ]
You could also go 2x Kin & 2x Emp with the Emps focusing on RecAura & RegAura.
[/ QUOTE ]
Kins have Transfusion at level 1. I hear it's a large AoE, and heals 23% of your HP. It has to hit, but we have Tactics for that. Slotted well, it should be all the healing the team needs. Empathy heals should rarely be needed. Speed Boost 6 slotted for END Recovery is a huge amount, and is probably comparable to Recovery Aura. It's available at level 12. Stacked 3 or 4 times, that's all the END you'll ever need. You have to get perma-Hasten and 6 slot Recovery Aura for Recharge Reduction, and even then it's 90 seconds on and about 50 seconds off (last I knew). Fortitude is great, but every buff it provides is already provided by someone else in the team with the exception of Psi Defense and Resistance (assuming the Hero Planner is correct). This team will avoid Psi damage like the plague. And Fortitude has a long recharge, so it can only be maintained on a few people. My Emp/Dark Defender is only 29, so I can't comment on Adrenaline Boost. But I can't see it being good enough to warrant replacing a Kinetic.
Emps don't have the team damage or movement buffs to replace Kins. It may well be possible for 2 Kins to cap damage and movement, but I don't see where replacing a Kin with an Emp improves the team.
I'd like to keep the team composition as simple as possible. It was simple with Buffer Overrun, any Rad/* Defender or */Rad Controller would do. But even then, level differences can cause a big problem. What do you do when you have 8 people separated by a couple levels each?
With this project we need a specific combination of powersets. It looks like there's a lot of interest in this project, and people will have their favorite builds to play. There may be enough people to have several teams. People may play outside of the SG. People will definitely level at different rates. It's going to be hard enough to make a team with 2 FFs, 2 Sonics, and 4 Kins.
Could we replace a Kin with an EMP and still do well? Probably. Ditto for a Rad. But it would be better to replace a Kin with a spare FF or Sonic, in order to keep people around the same level. Every team will need 2 FFs, 2 Sonics, and 2 Kins. Beyond that, 2 Kins provide the greatest benefit, but any 2 will probably do.
[ QUOTE ]
Possible templates:
[/ QUOTE ]
One thing before I comment on those... This team will go through multiple stages. I thought attacks would need more slots at lower levels, but I just realized that stacked Siphon Power will let you cap damage from level 12 on. Here are the stages...
Levels 1-3: Single target damage, Kinetic Siphon Power enhances team damage, Resistance debuffs from Sonic attacks improve damage more. Mobs fall down really fast. Attacks are slotted for 1 Accuracy.
Levels 4-11: Howl!!! AoE and stacked Resistance debuffs for teh win. Entire groups start dropping as fast as minions used to.
Levels 12-13: Speed Boost at 12 means Siphon Power can be stacked at least twice. Attacks are damage capped!
Levels 14-31: Tactics means no need for Accuracy. You don't need to put ANYTHING in your attacks!
Levels 32-50: Fulcrum Shift doesn't really add much, since attacks are already capped. But it does debuff mob damage.
Now for your builds...
Too many slots in attacks. Attacks get their base slot, and even that isn't needed after level 14. Is that backwards or what???
No need for Maneuvers. FF and Dispersion Bubbles should be all we need. Also, Maneuvers is a fairly small buff and does not provide Defense from AoE attacks. I suppose if you can't find anything else worthwhile (which is possible), you might want to take this.
No need for Vengence. Defeat should be very rare. It buffs Defense, Accuracy, and Damage. None of those need to be buffed.
No need for Amplify or Aim type powers. That's a personal buff, what are you thinking!!! :-) If you have a huge Accuracy bonus from Tactics and your damage is capped, Amplify and Aim are a waste.
As you saw, you have a LOT of slots to play with when you don't need to slot your attacks. In fact, it's REALLY hard to spend them all and get a worthwhile benefit!
You also have a LOT of power picks to play with. It's hard to pick powers you'll actually use. Remember, with the Recharge Reduction of Speed Boost, you'll be able to chain your best 3 to 4 attacks.
I'd slot up the bubbles ASAP.
Here's a couple of my builds, thrown together rather quickly. Feel free to rip them apart. The Kinetic has Teleport, along with Recall Friend with Shadow Shard range. The FF took Power Mastery to use Power Buildup before bubbling the other FF. This will let them get decent defense even against higher level Bosses with only a single set of bubbles. Sonic should probably do the same, to have better resists against Resistance debuffing mobs.
You want AoE attacks when you're in a big team. Dark appears to have better AoE attacks than any other set. But the AoE attacks in Sonic Attacks may be all you really need. You can easily spare the slots to 6 slot Howl and Shockwave for Recharge Reduction. Combined with Speed Boost, that may be enough to let a Kin chain them and either Siphon Power or Fulcrum Shift.
Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Kinetics
Secondary Powers - Support : Sonic Attacks
01 : Shriek acc(01)
01 : Tranfusion hel(01) hel(3) hel(3) hel(5) hel(5) hel(7)
02 : Siphon Power acc(02) recred(7) recred(9) recred(9)
04 : Howl acc(04)
06 : Recall Friend rng(06) rng(11) rng(11) rng(48) rng(48) rng(48)
08 : Scream acc(08)
10 : Assault endred(10)
12 : Speed Boost endrec(12) endrec(13) endrec(13) endrec(17) endrec(19) endrec(21)
14 : Tactics thtbuf(14) thtbuf(15) thtbuf(15) thtbuf(17) thtbuf(19) thtbuf(21)
16 : Teleport rng(16) rng(23) rng(23) rng(25) rng(25) rng(29)
18 : Inertial Reduction jmp(18) jmp(34) jmp(36) jmp(40) jmp(43) jmp(46)
20 : Shockwave Empty(20)
22 : Increase Density damres(22) damres(29) damres(31) damres(31) damres(31) damres(36)
24 : Grant Invisibility defbuf(24)
26 : Transference endrec(26) endrec(27) endrec(27) endrec(36) endrec(37) endrec(37)
28 : Siren's Song Empty(28)
30 : Stimulant inttim(30) inttim(37)
32 : Fulcrum Shift recred(32) recred(33) recred(33) recred(33) recred(34) recred(34)
35 : Shout Empty(35)
38 : Dreadful Wail recred(38) recred(39) recred(39) recred(39) recred(40) recred(40)
41 : Dominate hlddur(41) hlddur(42) hlddur(42) hlddur(42) hlddur(43) hlddur(43)
44 : Mind over Body damres(44) damres(45) damres(45) damres(45) damres(46) damres(46)
47 : Telekinesis endred(47)
49 : Aid Other hel(49) hel(50) hel(50) hel(50)
Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Force Field
Secondary Powers - Support : Sonic Attacks
01 : Shriek acc(01)
01 : Deflection Shield defbuf(01) defbuf(3) defbuf(3) defbuf(5) defbuf(5) defbuf(7)
02 : Scream acc(02)
04 : Howl acc(04)
06 : Insulation Shield defbuf(06) defbuf(7) defbuf(9) defbuf(9) defbuf(11) defbuf(11)
08 : Assault endred(08)
10 : Shockwave acc(10)
12 : Dispersion Bubble defbuf(12) defbuf(13) defbuf(13) defbuf(15) defbuf(17) defbuf(19)
14 : Tactics thtbuf(14) thtbuf(15) thtbuf(17) thtbuf(19) thtbuf(21) thtbuf(23)
16 : Shout Empty(16)
18 : Hover fltspd(18) fltspd(21) fltspd(23) fltspd(31) fltspd(31) fltspd(31)
20 : Repulsion Field endred(20) endred(25) endred(33) endred(40) endred(43) endred(46)
22 : Stimulant inttim(22) inttim(33)
24 : Aid Other hel(24) hel(25) hel(27) hel(27) hel(29) hel(29)
26 : Aid Self hel(26)
28 : Siren's Song Empty(28)
30 : Resuscitate inttim(30)
32 : Grant Invisibility defbuf(32) defbuf(33) defbuf(34) defbuf(34) defbuf(34) defbuf(37)
35 : Force Bubble endred(35) endred(36) endred(36) endred(36) endred(37) endred(37)
38 : Dreadful Wail recred(38) recred(39) recred(39) recred(39) recred(40) recred(40)
41 : Power Buildup recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Temp Invulnerability damres(44) damres(45) damres(45) damres(45) damres(46) damres(46)
47 : Total Focus disdur(47) disdur(48) disdur(48) disdur(48) disdur(50) disdur(50)
49 : Conserve Power recred(49) recred(50)
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Neko_Lurker: See you on protector TopDog
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Why do people call me that so often?
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PhoenixCreation: I also have a TS2 voice comms that we can use if we so with (actually anybody can use it). It is a dedicated server so it can handle as many of us that wish to use it. When we finally meet up, I'll give out the URL.
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Sounds good. :-) Get it? SOUNDS good. never mind.
Thanks, it will come in handy.
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Labrynth: 1. Do res debuffs work directly off of total damage? (ie. your attack has a base of 10 dmg, its enhanced to do 100. would a 30% debuff make that damage 130?)
2. Is there an easy way to test accuracy? (I want to test out the debuff on liquify, but with its constant knockdown, it would be near impossible to test through lots of trials and checking to see how often they miss)
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1. Yes. Your numbers are a little off though, given the damage cap. An attack with a base of 25 damage will be capped from a +300% bonus at 100. That damage can be further increased by resistance debuffs of at least +150% to 250.
2. There is no good way to test Accuracy or Defense, especially now that the numbers are fairly small. You should start with Hero Stats though. I tried doing it manually long ago for Maneuvers and Hover, and found it takes 500 to 1000 attacks to get close to real numbers. You probably need 5000 to 10000 tries to get a solid percentage.
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Major_Napalm: I'd like to get in on this SG too, please add me to the list.
I'm sure alot of people will have at least a couple of toons, I've started a Kin/Elec on Protector today. I'll look for you, Topdoc. Are you going to be using TankerWannabe on Protector too?
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Just join the global chat channel. It's public.
I'll probably use "Tanker Wannabe" if it isn't taken on Protector. But I may only make up a character to reserve the name, and roll a level 1 Kin/Sonic when Update 5 goes live.
As to making characters, I wouldn't go too far. If the Resist debuff cap is +300% (possible), or it isn't capped at all (which I doubt), then I'm going to HIGHLY recommend EVERYONE take /Sonic. Here's a little table with different Secondary power set combinations. It assumes we have 2 Sonics (Primary) with Disruption Field (30% Resistance debuff) against even level mobs.
0 Sonic, 8 Other = 12.8 * capped damage
1 Sonic, 7 other = 16 * capped damage
2 Sonic, 6 other = 19.2 * capped damage
3 Sonic, 5 other = 22.4 * capped damage
4 Sonic, 4 other = 25.6 * capped damage
5 Sonic, 3 other = 28.8 * capped damage
6 Sonic, 2 other = 32 * capped damage
7 Sonic, 1 other = 35.2 * capped damage
8 Sonic, 0 other = 38.4 * capped damage
If the resistance debuff cap is +300%, then 6 /Sonic Defenders will cap the Resistance debuff against even con mobs. Since we can easily fight higher con mobs at nearly the same rate, we could use 8 /Sonic Defenders. But again, only if the Resistance cap is +300% or higher. If the cap is +150%, we could still use the full buffs from 4 /Sonics against +3 mobs.
Let me end with some questions. Can anyone see a good reason to take anything other than the Sonic Attacks secondary, looking at it from the SuperTeam perspective? Is the END Drain of Electric Blast useful at all? Dark has 3 cones and an AoE Disorient, but would they actually be used?
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Rufus: I think the team looks something like:
...
2 Dark Miasma Defenders - mainly to patch the psi-hole.
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Nope. Darks just don't contribute enough. We would have to give up 2 Kins, and their associated Speed Boost and damage bonuses. That's a major hit that we just can't take. Also, it would be another power set we would need to coordinate when forming teams. Instead, we avoid Psi heavy factions. Problem solved.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
We started this same sort of thing on Victory last week. Totally works, wonderful idea. Defenders are so overpowered in teams it's insane. I'd suspect that this would work with all controllers just as well.
I wonder if an all fire tank group would do even better? Imagine 8 burns going down all at once, nothing would be able to run out of the patches in time...
Lets just hope someone with a red name doesn't read all this and plan a nerfing raid on all those powers before they even get released.
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I didn't select Electrical Blast for the energy drain, in fact you'll probably find that with a team like this you won't even notice any secondary effect beyond -Res. Electrical Blast was chosen for the 2 early AoEs (Short Circuit deals almost as much damage as Ball Lightning with similar slotting) and Tesla Cage to some degree.
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Sonic Attacks has Cone attacks at those same early levels, 4 and 10, plus another "minor" one at 28. And it has the universally useful -Res secondary effect.
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At 40+ you start running into stuff (other than robots) which is heavily Psi resistant, if you just streethunt to avoid those then your damage type does not matter. Psi Blast also has to wait until level 28 for a second AoE and you have to take a subpar single target blast at level 1.
Spreading damage types isn't a bad idea, but you should not overspecialize in Psi unless you enjoy frustration against robots and massive /Sonic isn't good AoE capabilities either.
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I agree that Psi isn't a good choice. But I can't understand why you think /Sonic lacks AoEs.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
i think one person shoud have psi mainly cause of one reason....
it gets a early sniper....
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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i think one person shoud have psi mainly cause of one reason....
it gets a early sniper....
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Dark gets a Snipe at level 4, and it has more and better AoEs. 'Nuff said.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
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I agree that Psi isn't a good choice. But I can't understand why you think /Sonic lacks AoEs.
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Minor damage isn't good enough for a damage AoE IMO. Sonic Blast only has 1 AoE (beyond Wail) that deals more than Minor damage. Also only Howl is listed as having -Res as a secondary effect out of the 3 non-nuke AoEs.
In the other post you criticize me for slotting the attacks and then later on in your post suggest 6 slotting them. You also question me picking stuff like Maneuvers (which does protect against the one major hole in this setup: Psionics) but later go on to notice that you can actually pick and slot just about anything you want to. As long as you pick & slot the basic required stuff for your powersets of course.
Aim/Amplify were taken mainly to advance in level so I could get to the higher level powers, the same can be said for almost anything that isn't in the required stuff.
For the FF'ers the required stuff is the 3 bubbles, for the Sonics it's the 3 shields + Disruption Field. Kins are there to use Transfusion, Siphon Power (Fulcrum Shift is a waste if you bring 4 Kins with SP in a party with 8 Defs all running Assault) and Speed Boost. Rads would be Radiant Aura, Accelerate Metabolism & Enervating Field.
Everyone should of course have at least 1 AoE (preferably 2), 2 or 3 single target attacks, Assault & Tactics. SR/Clarity would be nice but only really needed vs Sleep due to massive resists from 4 different stacked fields (2x FF & 2x SR) covering Hold & Disorient.
Anything beyond those powers is pure fluff and only really taken to level up. The Psi APP is nice fluff (like Maneuvers it covers a hole) but still fluff. With 2 (or more) Kins movement powers become fluff though they can still be nice to have.
Great posts TopDoc!
I'm on protector and would like to join your Superteam when I5 goes live.
Heath Hazard lvl 50 rad/rad defender (tech)