Dev Response - Trick Arrow Set


13th_Stranger

 

Posted

Add me to the list of people who think that there's nothing seriously wrong with this powerset, but that it's under the wrong archetype. With no heal, no resurrect, and no team buff, this is a controller power, not a defender power.

In fact, when I first jumped on the test server, I started out thinking that you weren't allowing TA/A as a combination. Having read the descriptions of both Trick Arrow and Archery, it was obvious to me that TA/A was a controller. I literally never thought to look under defender until I saw somebody playing one.

Last night, four of us did the FrostFire mission: three arch/dev blasters and a TA/A defender. And yeah, absolutely, the TA/A was doing the work of a controller, not a defender. And that's not a complaint! As a blaster, crowd control is more important to me than healing.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Add me to the list of people who think that there's nothing seriously wrong with this powerset, but that it's under the wrong archetype. With no heal, no resurrect, and no team buff, this is a controller power, not a defender power.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well FF doesn't have a heal or a rez....kinetics don't have a rez.

I think TA is just fine for Defenders...just because there are no buffs in the set doesn't mean the debuffs are reverse psychology buffs for the team


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Posted

BUG REPORTED: POSION GAS ARROW

Damage is reported in combat window, but target health does not change. "Floating Minus" does not appear over target.

No Enemy is affected by POISON GAS ARROW...AoE Targets are not reportted as taking damage (and they don't lose health)

ENHANCEMENT SLOTS are the same as GLUE ARROW...Takes Slow, but not Damage, among other confusion.

GAME PLAY:

AOE Arrows: There seems to be a disconnect between the following:

AoE Arrows must hit target (is this true?) (not ground) but the effects are not 'anchored' to a given target.
AoE Arrows do not accept ACC Enhancments
Graphic Sticks to Original Target.

I'll keep playing to try to get the all archer defender to higher levels...If the Devs want to grant "Arrow Defense" some more XP and/or Respecs, please feel free.


 

Posted

I've been playing a illusion trick arrow controller since friday night. It's 23 now and i have to say its one of the most fun characters i've played in a long time.

The reduced debt also goes very well with the ambushes and other little twists in missions.

I know many people are complaining that trick arrow should be a controller primary or not be a controller secondary. Please do not make this happen. Issue 5 may be kneecapping most of my characters. But atleast there is one fun thing i'm looking forward to playing when the new issue hits.

However it does seem like controller powers are autohit (ex flash arrow) and the defender version misses. This should be looked into and fixed.


 

Posted

What I'm about to say here may not be popular but I'm going to throw it out anyway:

Trick Arrow Shouldn't be a Controller Secondary

Give defenders some love, they only have ONE unique primary. Defenders have enough trouble differentiating themselves, Particularly at high levels because Controller secondaries are "almost as good" as Defender primaries and at high levels you would never even know the difference. Controllers are simply more versatile in the post-40 game and Defenders are largely unwanted.

Giving defenders a couple of unique powersets would go a long way towards making them feel some love at higher levels. One unique powerset just isn't fair.


 

Posted

Ok, this set is currently undergoing a revision.

The fact was that it was too "Controllery" for a Defender power. There were also a lot of redundant debuffs that made the set VERY powerful.

Here are a list of changes that are currently being made. They are not in a patch yet, so I don't know when they will make it to the Training Room server:

<ul type="square">
Net Arrow: Removed Recharge debuff from Net arrow (Set already has many recharge debuffs)

Ice Arrow: Ice Arrow is now available later (swapped availability of Ice arrow and flash arrow). Increased recharge and decreased duration of Ice Arrow. Reduced Slow debuff. (To bring it in line with similar hold powers like Petrifying Gaze). Reduced base Accuracy of Ice Arrow. It was 120% of normal and should not have been.

Poison Gas Arrow: Increased Recharge of Poison Gas Arrow to 60 seconds from 24 seconds to prevent multiple stacking. Removed Recharge debuff from Poison Gas Arrow. Reduced its duration/lifetime. Reduced its chance to sleep. Fixed Poison Gas Arrow visual f/x.

Acid Arrow: Reduced Damage Resistance debuff of Acid Arrow. (Set has 2 damage resistance debuffs that could stack)

Disruption Arrow: Reduced Damage Resistance debuff of Disruption Arrow. (Set has 2 damage resistance debuffs that could stack). Increased Recharge rate of Disruption Arrow to 120 for Defender and Controller to prevent multiple stacking

Glue Arrow: Reduced Duration of Glue Arrow from 45 seconds to 30 second and Increased Recharge time from 20 seconds to 120 seconds to prevent multiple stacking. Fixed Glue Arrow visual f/x.

Flash Arrow: Added the ability to add Accuracy Enhancements to Flash Arrow. Fixed Controller version so it no longer AutoHits.[/list]


Positron
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Posted

These all seem like reasonable changes. While you're fixing Ice Arrow, please review the changes made to Petrfying Gaze. It is now the worst single target hold in the game, worse than many holds in secondary or Ancillary pools.


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Posted

Ah rats...and I just noticed today that Entangling Arrow had a -recharge aspect to it :P

I guess I should have seen TA being "nerfed"/fixed...it was very powerful.

Any way you can make Flash Arrow auto-hit for Defenders?


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Posted

Nerfing again already!!!! (heh)

Seriously, this is when a set should be re-tooled, before it goes live.


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Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Glue Arrow: Reduced Duration of Glue Arrow from 45 seconds to 30 second and Increased Recharge time from 20 seconds to 120 seconds to prevent multiple stacking. Fixed Glue Arrow visual f/x.


[/ QUOTE ]

At first glance everything looks ok except for this one. I abhor the "high recharge to prevent stacking" fix. Can't you just code it so powers from the same character don't stack? I've made this comment in other threads - but powers that can only be used every once in a while, forcing you to be much more strategic and sparing with their usage, really aren't much fun (for me). I'd rather have it available when I need it, and have stacking blocked the skillful way (via code) than the cheap way (by prevent situations where stacking could arise).

I don't know if the "usefulness" of targeting and area and not an anchor brings these powers anywhere near the utility of toggles once you throw recharges like that on there.

Seriously, consider this. Please. Oh, and it looks like hasten will be "required" (6 recharge SOs + hasten + AM required to get perma glue arrow with these stats I believe) for TA as well with multiple long recharge powers now. Fun. (not trying to be negative, I love this game, just fighting off cynicism).


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Posted

Awesome Posi,

What about Sonics? They're way more powerful (both Defender and Blaster versions) than anything Trick Arrow was throwing around.

PS.
Keep the updates comming! Feedback, we want more feedback!


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
These all seem like reasonable changes. While you're fixing Ice Arrow, please review the changes made to Petrfying Gaze. It is now the worst single target hold in the game, worse than many holds in secondary or Ancillary pools.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, considering the change made to ice arrow, I think it is pretty clear you'll see nerfs to the other holds (like tesla cage), not any buff to Petrifying Gaze.


 

Posted

I'll miss your uber effectiveness Glue Arrow. I saw that one coming, but I loved it while it lasted. I know what I'll be slotting Glue Arrow for now. And an excellent call moving Ice Arrow out of the earily picks, there was no reason to even pick Entangle Arrow when the obviusly superior Ice Arrow is available.


 

Posted

Wow. A lot of changes.

Exactly what kind of balance testing did you do before you released this set?


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Glue Arrow: Reduced Duration of Glue Arrow from 45 seconds to 30 second and Increased Recharge time from 20 seconds to 120 seconds to prevent multiple stacking. Fixed Glue Arrow visual f/x.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree with and support most of the changes, why is this one so extreme? By giving us Glue Arrow at level 2, I assumed it was supposed to be a staple of the set. This drastic alteration of recharge means that it will probably not be viable to use it every fight, until it is well enhanced or slotted with a few SO enhancements.


 

Posted

Stacking -res's are overpowered but having over 40+ powers to debuff defense (not counting accuracy in any other thing in the game) isn't?


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Posted

What about the damage Ice Arrow is supposed to do, as stated in the description? Will that be added or will the description be changed?


 

Posted

Wull we be seeing dmg in acid arrow as per the description, also consistant with the single target controller holds your measuring it against?


 

Posted

Positron--

This seems like way too much reduction on Trick Arrow. How much is a group going to want a Defender with:

*No heal
*No defense/resist buff
*No endurance buff
*No recharge buff

Sets with heals and buffs can do the same -resist thing as TA.
Sets with heals and buffs can do the same slow thing as TA.
Sets with heals and buffs can debuff acc WAY better than TA.

...So I just don't see what TA brings to the table to compensate for its lack of variety (heals, buffs). I mean, Radiation is looking like Trick Arrow on steroids at this point.

What am I missing here?

P.S. -- Net Arrow is now inferior to Web Grenade, a Blaster secondary? Huh?


 

Posted

Positron, could the "Poison Gas Arrow" name have "poison" removed from the name (or the name changed entirely)? Using "Poison" in the title makes it sound more evil than I think you intended.


 

Posted

Sorry to be a broken record here, but as I continue playing my mind/TA controller the animation time of pulling out the bow and then pulling out an arrow becomes more and more annoying. My current play style is to focus on my mind powers and occasionally use a TA power, which means that I'm never using two TA powers in a row so every time I use one I have to go through the draw animation since EVERY mind power I have puts the bow away. I'm just thankful there isn't a sheathing animation.
So the point of my huge rant of whining and complaints is that I don't want the draw animation and I'm willing to sacrifice raw power to get rid of it.


 

Posted

These changes do seem a little extreme, particularly the changes to Glue Arrow.

Plus, giving Poison Gas Arrow and Glue Arrow both -recharge debuffs gave Trick Arrow something of a specialty. Now it seems like the debuffs might be too varied to be very effective. I think I'd rather Poison Gas Arrow lost the damage debuff than the recharge debuff.

But the really weird thing is nerfing Entangling Arrow. It was already a bad power, why make it worse?

EDIT: Also, in the past it seems like the devs don't like that Hasten is considered a "must have" power. Well, right now, Trick Arrow doesn't really "need" Hasten, but with the change to Glue Arrow, I think it's going to become pretty necessary.


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Posted

It was fine before. Please reconsider these changes.

(this was the only thing that I actually looked forward to out of issue 5. I already had a couple of builds for characters featuring TA)


 

Posted

I want to emphasize that entangling arrow is now pretty much worthless. A recharge debuff is useful, say on a boss or lieutenant. Even minor damage on a power like chilblain or other single target immobilize is at least a little useful, perhaps to finish off a foe with a sliver of life left. Just immobilizing an enemy is not worth a power slot.