I'm usually just a forum shadow but this time I had to say something. Please just make TA debuffs not stack from the same character. I've been playing it one test and I was thrilled that for the first time I was playing a set that had great timing on the powers and I wouldnt need to 6-slot hasten. I can't understand how this set will be very usefull in the early game when there isnt much you can do about recharge timers.
James Fenix 38 Ill/kin controller
Lilly-Anna 26 DDD defender
Melody Fenix 22 rad/rad defender
Harmony Fenix 27 kin/elec defender
Robin of Loxley 25 TA/Arch defender
Brandon Fenix 28 invuln/eng tanker
Lillandria 30 Fire/eng blaster
among many, many other alts. (These are just my favs.
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Hi
First of all, let me say that I am enjoying this powerset very much, and 'gratz on some really good work...
HOWEVER...
What the powerset needs to make it valuable in teams is a heal and a rez! Otherwise, this is going to wind up being another, "I HATE non-empathy defenders," power in teams.
Now - I have an idea - it uses stuff that's already laying aorund and existing animations and stuff. How about a:
Drug Delivery Arrow?
I mean - they have them IRL, right? Why not in-game?
Since no one is going to use the Entangling Arrow anyhow (Joke: it's nice to be able to stop two enemies at times...) we replace that with an ally-targeted arrow that delivers... and here's the cute part... AN INSPIRATION from the shooter's supply!
Want to deliver heals and rezzes? Carry heals and rezzes.
Select a target, activate Drug Delivery Arrow, then click on an Inspiration, and, if you HIT, the target gets the effect.
I was thinking that accuracy should be about that of the damage-arrows, and cyclic rate of fire should be fast to moderate, because the limiting feature is the ability to cary inspirations. This is only slightly different from the ability to trade or give Inspirations, except that it is at range and doesn't need an open slot to recieve, and there's no speed limit on that, right??
One power slot to address a LOT of ally-aid related stuff, and, with a load of Awakens, I'm number ONE on the, "Do Invite," list! MWA-HA-HA-HA!!
Also: If you're dedicated to arrow slows and imobilizations, you might could add lines of sedative, anesthetic, halucinogenic and muscle relaxant inspirations....
Thanks for the information on the way you guys are planning on taking this set, Positron. I'd like to make a few comments though.
Net arrow needs something more to it if you are taking away the recharge debuff. Single target imobilizes aren't particularly useful, except for kiting while soloing. To make this power useful in team play it needs something more, either a pretty strong debuff or (my personal suggestion) knockback.
Trick Arrow is a debuff only power set, so it's debuffs when taken as a whole should be the strongest in the game. Rad and Dark, which are also debuff heavy sets, also have a buff and a heal. Couple this with the fact that most of the debuffs can't be enhanced due to a lack of -recharge, -resistance, and -damage enhancements and you need to be careful on how much you reduce the debuffs.
Why the decrease in the effectiveness of Defender holds? Especially when Blaster holds appear to be unchanged. And please don't take this as a request to nerf Blaster holds. The fact that Controllers can critical hold and do double damage to hold victims should distinguish them enough. Please reconsider most of the changes to Petrifying Gaze and Ice Arrow.
Lastly, thanks for fixing Flash Arrow to allow Accuracy enhancements? But is it my imagination or does the debuff on Flash Arrow go away shortly after you attack the villain?
Any interest in making this a controller set instead of defender? Seems like the easiest solution.
Scorus
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I agree that some of the powers were a bit much, and the two fairly quick recharge targetted -res debuffs were making me drool, but I think this set got nerfed a little too hard.
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thats the devs answer to everything, nerf it to uselessness
coupled with the recent revelation that they dont even know what some powers do, i think its time to get a dev team that has at least half a clue between them
(if wanna know what i mean see the dev response in the tanker thread where the dev response explained things quoting incorect power attributes, then corrected it and still didnt show any knowledge of what powers do! - explained how invincibilities +res per mob helped, when it doesnt give any!)
I honestly think TA would make a very poor controller primary, that is unless they changed a couple of powers completely.
I think the recent proposed changes are a bit too much also. Fine increase the recharge rates but not so long...
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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Ok, this set is currently undergoing a revision.
The fact was that it was too "Controllery" for a Defender power. There were also a lot of redundant debuffs that made the set VERY powerful.
Here are a list of changes that are currently being made. They are not in a patch yet, so I don't know when they will make it to the Training Room server:
<ul type="square">
Net Arrow: Removed Recharge debuff from Net arrow (Set already has many recharge debuffs)
Ice Arrow: Ice Arrow is now available later (swapped availability of Ice arrow and flash arrow). Increased recharge and decreased duration of Ice Arrow. Reduced Slow debuff. (To bring it in line with similar hold powers like Petrifying Gaze). Reduced base Accuracy of Ice Arrow. It was 120% of normal and should not have been.
Poison Gas Arrow: Increased Recharge of Poison Gas Arrow to 60 seconds from 24 seconds to prevent multiple stacking. Removed Recharge debuff from Poison Gas Arrow. Reduced its duration/lifetime. Reduced its chance to sleep. Fixed Poison Gas Arrow visual f/x.
Acid Arrow: Reduced Damage Resistance debuff of Acid Arrow. (Set has 2 damage resistance debuffs that could stack)
Disruption Arrow: Reduced Damage Resistance debuff of Disruption Arrow. (Set has 2 damage resistance debuffs that could stack). Increased Recharge rate of Disruption Arrow to 120 for Defender and Controller to prevent multiple stacking
Glue Arrow: Reduced Duration of Glue Arrow from 45 seconds to 30 second and Increased Recharge time from 20 seconds to 120 seconds to prevent multiple stacking. Fixed Glue Arrow visual f/x.
Flash Arrow: Added the ability to add Accuracy Enhancements to Flash Arrow. Fixed Controller version so it no longer AutoHits.[/list]
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Well i havent had a chance to test the higher ones yet so i have no comment on them
But i have tested Net, Ice, and Glue
Net Arrow - for defender it, to me, is as useless as Web Grenade for blasters in general, i have many */Dev characters and i think in there entire life time i have used web grenade 3 or 4 times at most, thats saying something since several of them are in there 20s. I will always hate the fact that we do not have the choice of 1 of the 1st 2 powers in our secondary sets, since in several of them i usually just end up deleting that powers icon from my tray since i wont use it - but yet it still takes up a power slot that could be used for something i actually need but usually cant take because i dont have the slots.
Ice Arrow - i think the recharge increase is a bit to much - i am also not happy with the change in location - even though i dont have practical experience with it much yet, in every build i designed using trick arrow i have no plans on taking flash arrow at all - which then means as a defender i am going to be stuck with a useless primary set power regardless of which of the first 2 i take.
Glue Arrow - sorry but that recharge is to high - it is basically the same as tar patch in my opinion (only diffrence is it dosent have the debuff) which is a power i like - but the recharge on tar patch is only 45 seconds - at least the live version - and i dont think that got changed - i feel that the recharge on glue arrow should be 45 seconds
Just saw this on the Training Room forum, thought it was a good idea and belonged here.
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Originally posted by: Lobster
Anyway, my first suggestion is for the dev's to consider just adding code to prevent debuffs from the same caster from stacking (we already have same caster buff stacking blocked).
Why? So they don't have to put obscene recharge times on powers like glue arrow (30 sec duration, 120 sec recharge, no duration slotting possible - so 6 recharges + hasten + AM required to have it "perma" or available almost whenever you need it) and tar pit to prevent the stacking. Toggle debuffs (rad, storm, sonic) are up pretty much whenever you need them and can be removed and reapplied as necessary.
I can see not wanting to allow huge patches of land to be arrowed/tar pitted so my second suggestion is this:
These things are basically pets - make them function just like the new pets - if you cast a new one, the old one goes away, otherwise it lasts for the full duration. I would much rather have a quick recharging power that I can use WHEN I need it as the flow of battle changes, not a power that I have to be extra careful and strategic about choosing when to use it because it is only available every 3rd battle or so. I can see this for nukes, but not for STAPLE defender debuffs.
Please consider this devs - you want this to be a fun game accessible to the common gamer right? Well, staple powers available at level 4 (AM aside, which can be perma'd with slotting - this kind of thing is fine) should be available for frequent use. Otherwise it is just not "fun".
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Gof Forbid defenders blur the lines a bit, meanwhile troller secondaries work at 80-100% effectiveness of defenders. Meanwhile defender secondaries work at 66%.
Cheers!
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I agree with both you and kurg. It was always my feeling that defenders were meant to blur the lines between the other ranged ATs.
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Positron, please rethink taking the "easy" route of increasing recharge times to prevent stacking of powers.
This was done with Tar Patch, and the only thing it did was make the power less useful for those who weren't self-stacking the resistance debuffs. It's still possible to self-stack with slotting and Hasten, so the goal wasn't even accomplished.
Instead, consider leaving the recharges as they are and making subsequent uses of these powers remove any previous applications (not dissimilar to the new pet rules). That way the powers can still be used as originally intended, and no combination of slotting, Hasten, Speed Boost, Accelerate Metabolism, and Adrenaline Boost will allow self-stacking. Problem solved, and players are happy.
Regards,
GP
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Totally agree. Every time they raise the recharge of a power to prevent stacking, they probably should have done that instead. The only exception is when they raise the recharge because they dont want a power "perma".
Devs / States...
Anymore, I don't see a nerf bat being swung---I see a nerf AXE. Why?---because your answer to what you perceive as being against the "Balance Vision" is to CHOP the sucker up rather than to just beat it down.
This set was FUN to play. It was FUN to play. (I'll say it again for emphasis)---It was FUN to play. You're already impending changes are swinging that nerf AXE (rather than bat) too hard and chopping away too much.
If it feels too "Controlly"---so be it---but individual holds does not a controller make. It has slows and individual holds and diminishes accuracy...SO WHAT! Don't be so severe in the "efforts to reign in its perceived uberness." (Fun does not equal "uber."---it's just that...FUN.) Instead, diminish them a little...let us test them out...listen to our feedback. See how it all fairs...but don't decimate a set to Force Field usefulness and status when you have an opportunity to create a set that is FUN to play in addition to being balanced.
Don't Nerf-Axe the fun out of this powerset...let alone others.
~ Jonathan
Hi all -
I agree that the Trick Arrow powers are more Controller powers than Defender powers. What I don't understand is this: Why is Trick Arrow not a Controller power to begin with? Green Arrow's special arrows were all about controlling, not about defending. It doesn't really make sense to have an Archery-based Defender in the first place. Wouldn't it help things tremendously if you just went ahead and made it a Controller set? Get rid of the debuffs, and stay with holds. Look at Green Arrow if you need more ideas.
Just my thoughts,
Cap
P.S. I've been a Green Arrow fan since way back, so I have been eagerly awaiting getting this powerset to live.
Thanks for the update, Positron. I havent tried out the new version of Trick Arrow yet, but at first glance, it looks balancing for those that take it as a controller secondary while VERY underpowering for those that take it as a defender primary. I'm sure you'll settle on some middle ground, but it still looks like the set needs a little more work to make it fair.
For example, can't you make it so Glue Arrow can't be stacked w/o making the recharge time 6x as long? So if you shoot it into a group of mobs, the duration would still be 30 seconds, but if you shoot it again, the debuff would just refresh on the mobs that already had it. 120 seconds seems like too long of a recharge time, even with hasten.
I was always a Hawkeye fan myself...but I agree that he and Green Arrow were always more about CONTROLLING their opponents than defending the team.
This should be a controller set.
Proud Member of
'Well, I found the "fight" button, so lets do that.' Bun Bun
My Characters
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Green Arrow is not a controller...No way...no how...
Defender or blaster I can see.
Trick arrow should have been just a defender set. Just like sonic blast should have been just a defender set. The new sets are great but they tried to share them too much. IMO
GF
I would like to make a few suggestions
A) Remove Entangling Arrow for:
Morphine Arrow:
You shoot an arrow with a small dose of morphine causing minor damage and healing a moderate amount of hit points to an ally
(Ally: Heal, Minor Dmg)
This will give the set a atleast one power that can make the set more desireable for teaming. A team sometimes requires a healer and having a debuffer is more of a luxuary. This power would cause about 3-4 damage and heal about the same ammount O2 boost heals.
B) Remove EMP arrrow for:
Demise Arrow:
You shot an arrow with a an arrow with the most potent combination of poisons. This poison massively cripples the motor skills of the victim for some time.
(Foe: Massive Acc debuff, Def debuff, Dmg debuff. Recharge Very Long)
This power would give the set a more original 9th power. It also fits the set perfectly. The archer has a small amount ( very long recharge) of a very potent arrow. Makes it look like you finally reached the deadliest arrow of all.
C)I agree with everyone that says that this set is not fit for a blaster secondary, but I have made a few adjustments to make a whole new blaster secondary. Personally, I think that a new archer type secondary for blasters is needed. The only set that kind of fits is devices but then again the powers on there are all mostly machines not fitting some concept characters.
Support Arrow
1)Entangling Arrow - (imob, -recharge, -jump,-fly)
Same Description as defender version.
2) Punching Arrow - (minor dmg, foe knock back)
You shoot out a small arrow with a round solid head that knocks opponents back as well as dealing minor damage.
3) Sedative Arrow - (minor dmg, foe sleep)
Injects the foe with a sedative toxin that causes him to sleep.
4) Build Up - (+acc +dmg)
Same description as other sets.
5) FLash Arrow (foe - perception, -acc,same effect as defender version)
Same description as defender version.
6) Illuminated Arrow (foe -def, -stealth, minor dmg)
You send forth an illuminated arrow that illuminates the target allowing a clearer shot.
7) Smoke Bomb Arrow (self -aggro, +stealth, cant attack)
You shoot an smoke bomb arrowhead to the ground unleashing a massive curtain of smoke. All villians that you had aggroed on you will lose the aggro. This power also gives you stealth for a short time. The smoke doesnt allow you to attack anything until its gone.
8)Sapper Arrow (foe -end, self +end, minor dmg)
You send forth an metallic arrow attached to a metal chord that impales your opponent. Then an electric charge is released through the arrow that drains the energy from your foe and transfers it back to you along the chord.
9) Boxing Glove Arrow (foe knockback, disorient, high dmg)
You pull out a massive Boxing Glove Arrow and shoot it towards an opponent. The arrow travels with great power and knockbacks your opponent upon impact. The strength of the hit is also strong enough to stun your opponent.
I am really enjoying this set, the trick arrows make me feel very Green Arrow-ish. I can't wait for the day I use some high level arrow and it's got a punching glove on it 
I have played a few of the other Defender sets, and have been somewhat put off by their lack of focus. Empathy is dedicated healing, and Radiation is almost all debuffs sure. But my favorate (until now) set has been Kinetics, which is an awesome set. But the powers that are more useful for groups seem to come at the beginning and end of the set. Same with Shields for me, just to many shields that throw enemies around and don't do much other than that. But Trick Arrows look like a steady stream of debuffs all through out, no other tricks in their bag, which is nice. It makes me think of power selection a lot more. Also I have said it before, but teamed up with a Archery Blaster your nigh unstopabale. Well maybe not, but they sure work well together. Trick Arrows debuff/slow/immobalize everybody, then the two of you apply the arrow beatdown to the group. Very fun!
I have been thinking about the "too controllery" defnder primaries and the changes made to them.
Since controllers and defender share powersets there is some friction between them, one says that the controlls are too good for a defender and the other says that the buffs are too good for a controller.
So, why not look at the sets this way and ajust them accordingly:
If the power is a controll power (hold, sleep, disorient, pet, speed, knockback/down and repell) let it be at controler strength (and duration) for a controller and at a lessened state for a defender.
And if a power is a buff/debuff ( or has that as a component) then have it be at full strength for a defender and at a lessened state for a controller.
This way the shared sets have separate functions depending on who uses it.
The trick arrow set is the first controllery secondary for a contrller, and is welcomed as such, it would be a shame to take that away again.
(following that train of thought, i'd even like to switch darkmiasma for empathy as a contrller secondary, since empathy is very defendery and dark is very controllery. existing heroes could be grandfathered of course.)
All in all, i'm trying to advocate control for controllers, and defense (buffs etc) for defenders, in both primary and secondary.
My 1 post
I personally think this issue and issue 4 have been pathetic attemps to add content. Issue4 nerfs and a failed PVP. Issue5 tons of nerfs and recycled content from ingame villains and holloween and ghost ship events. All around just sad. Come on Devs I know COV is coming out soon but that doesnt mean you have to get lazy on all your ALREADY paying costumers.
I like TA as a defender primary because it means my controller gets it as a secondary.
Basically I get two controller sets.
I really enjoyed the trick arrow set, felt the effects/end use was relatively balanced, the only problem I had was flash arrow not taking acc enhancements. However, that seems its going to be addressed.
BUT...while swapping Ice Arrow and Flash Arrow is very cool, the I think the other changes are superfluous overkill.
As far as trick arrow being too controller-y, thats just silly. Storms controller-y and the tank secondary energy melee is very scrapper-y...so what do it really matter?
I don't get how you call this a defender....I call it a controller with secondary blaster powers....although much more useful than an ordinary controller (post I 5 nerf). It doesn't do anything defendery (buff or debuff) but it holds, slows, and stuns....at least thats how i remember it. I think i will name him blast-troller!
Currently i am playing a lvl 15 TA/Sonics Def. I agree with some of the changes Posi has put forth, but I feel that for an AT that lacks healing or buffing, these changes may go a bit too far.
) would stand a chance. This was also never more true than when I would solo. A defenders ability to dish out damage in the later game (and by this i mean lvl 22 and above when SOs are available) takes a back seat to every other AT in the game. My slow power became CRITICAL to my survival while soloing, especially with bosses and lts. 
Net arrow: i was gonna skip this anyway, so no big deal for me.
Ice Arrow: understandable, no problems here
PGA and DA: agree with Kurg on this one
Flash arrow: ok with changes, tho in testing i notice the -perception, but not so much the -acc, may need to take a look at that. Agree with Kurg again that this could be an autohit power much like radiation infection for Rad defs.
Glue arrow: Im ok with the duration being dropped. However, the recharge going from 20 to 120 is WAY TOO MUCH. I think a 45-50 sec recharge should be sufficient. Again in this AT without healing or buffing the more "controllery" powers are what will offset the lack of these powers, and mitigate the damage coming in from enemies. This is how i played my lvl 50 rad/rad def. In fact, at lvl 50 she only has the first medic badge (or whatever its called) b/c she didnt need to heal that often. RI+RF+Lingering rad (the slowing power) were the reasons for this. I often teamed with a controller, so i can honestly say i did not "control" mobs as he did, but rather debuffed their speed and attack rate so that some of our squishier teammates (myself included
Overall, I am excited about this set, a purely debuffing defender sounds like fun to me. But dont hit it in the kneecaps with a nerf bat just yet, at higher levels these strong debuffs will become weaker as our enemies get tougher, and like i said w/o heals and buffs these debuffs are all that TA offers. Please reconsider some of the changes that are planned for it.
PS- Im loving I5, and yes I am a Fan Girl
HEROES:
Fusion Girl lvl 50 rad/rad defender NON PL'd
Gamma Orionis lvl 42 WS
Ten Bears lvl 42 fire/eng tank
Allura Ven lvl 38 mind/kin contrllr
VILLAINS:
Mechanima lvl 36 robot/trap MM
Blood Reaver lvl 36 DM/FA brute
Satyrus lvl 33 SS/DA brute
more to come