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Can i get a ruling here? i get removed for agreeing for someone?
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It got removed because you exceeded the one post/per dev post limit. Happened to me too, earlier in the thread.
I haven't leveled past the mid-teens with TA. I *think* that once I get into the 20s, where I can have both SO Recharge and enough slots in powers to make a difference, then the set will be playable, but it will be a slow road to get there. I think this is going to discourage people from playing TA (or, perhaps worse, playing with people who play TA), or it's going to give even more incentive to people to take perma-Hasten. I'm also concerned about the durations when playing on larger teams, where battles will outlast the debuffs. Haven't had the opportunity to see whether or not this will be a major issue, but it's something I'm watching.
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Thnx for the info and the post. See guys, this is all i was tryign to say. Sure i wont have to worry about recharge times after i get to the early 20s, Im just tired of automatically having to figure perma haste into all of my builds. As for the duration of the debuffs, i've been having the same problem were my debuffs will wear off mid fight and not be useable again for a while. A small duration boost here or there would proly fix things nicely. When all you do is debuffs, it helps to make them useable AND potent.
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We are continuing to look at the set. Being one of the new sets in the game, it is going to be scrutinized beyond just the Training Room server.
If the set continues to prove itself sub-par on the Live servers, then some adjustments will be made.
This was one of the hardest sets to define. It falls out of line with the "normal" Defender sets. It isn't a buff set, its a debuff set. Its really a different playstyle than Defenders have had before.
For those who complain that the Archetypes who have the fewest sets were overlooked... the next planned powersets are melee based.
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I'm sure it's been brought up before, but why exactly is this a defender set? Playing an arrow/arrow defender doesn't feel like playing a defender, you feel like a blaster. The trick arrow set, IMO is much better suited as a blaster secondary than a defender primary. Yes it's mostly debuffs, but the overall "feel" of the set is wrong for a defender. What is so defendery about trick arrows? Nothing.
On another note, from and RPG point of view, what exactly does an arrow blaster pair as a secondary that makes any sense? Nothing. Arrows and energy? Arrows and fire? If your character has those secondary abilities, why wouldn't he/she also have them as primaries? Devices is the only set that legitimately can work with any blaster primary. It makes no sense.
Defenders already have the most versatile mix of primary and secondary abilities, do they really need another? Blasters on the other hand have sets that are painfully repetitive.
I know it's probably too late in this stage of the game to do this kind of swap (making trick arrows a blaster secondary), but really, ask anyone who has tried playing an arrow/arrow defender and ask them, "do you feel like a defender, or a blaster?" The answer should be all you need to know.
Ive noticed that the Flash Arrow power is wearing off enemies as soon as I attack them instead of granting an ACC debuff like it says in the description. As long as I dont attack an enemy flash lasts a long time but after i get one or two hits in it seems to knock flash off. Is it just me or is this a known issue?
I've been doing some testing on Flash Arrow. The results have been displeasing. From my Consolidated thread post:
My subject was a L5 (even-con) Blood Brother Slugger. I let him take 200 swings at me, counting only those when the debuff animation was in full effect on him (discarding the first and last sample of each application of Flash Arrow). At no time did I stack Flash Arrow.
Misses: 104/200 --> 52%
Hits: 96/200 --> 48%
Even allowing for the small sample size, Flash Arrow provides no detectable to-hit debuff. I /bugged it. It's useless as a combat power in its current state. Its only possible use is as a kind of poor-man's Stealth, and it's not even good at that--it should, by all rights, be autohit, but instead it has the standard 75% accuracy. It doesn't even get the 5% weapon-draw bonus.
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I've also done a fair amount of more general playtesting with my L18 TA/A. We still have to slog through these levels to get Stamina and permaHasten, you know. It continues to be grueling.
On those occasions when all my debuffs are available, I can get through a fight with three basic white minions with minimal damage, although doing so leaves me almost entirely drained of endurace. When Glue Arrow is unavailable, and I rely on Poison Gas Arrow for damage mitigation, the same fight leaves me carrying substantial damage as well as critically short on endurance.
Mezzers are becoming increasingly problematic; I'm running into Yellow Ink Men now. With no functional accuracy debuff, the closest thing I have to mez protection is Ice Arrow. Ice Arrow delays the inevitable mez a bit if it hits, but during the downtime on the hold, I invariable get slept/held. One memorable encounter involved a Yellow Ink Man and an Ancestral Spirit, both +1 to me--a standard spawn in a mission on Heroic. I was forced to run away and exit the mission to rest repeatedly, usually while my remaining pixel of health flashed warningly at me.
I've also spent a bit of time SKing a friend's L5 Dark/Sonic defender. I found it disturbing that with fewer powers, fewer slots, and operating a combat level below me, he seemed to defeat our foes more quickly and easily than I could. He had little difficulty finishing off a named Tsoo boss and mopping up his flunkies after I got faceplanted. He had neither Darkest Night nor Tar Patch at the time.
Which reminds me--the prevalence of Dragonfly-type Tsoo bosses and lieutenants has made it still more obvious to me that Glue Arrow (its other problems aside) desperately needs a -Fly component; a -Jump would be appropriate, too. This would be both logical and thematically consistent.
On the whole, TA is definitely underperforming. Its damage mitigation is inadequate for soloing on Heroic, and its damage increase effects don't decrease the time require to defeat mobs enough to compensate, even when the long recharge periods don't leave them unavailable for a given fight. In combination with the also-underperforming Archery set, it's downright painful.
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
Now that I've done a bit of testing with TA as both a defender primary and controller secondary, I'm going to have to agree with many of the folks here. Trick Arrow is going to need some tweaking to be a strong debuff/control defender primary. Ideally, I'd like to see it performing similarly to Dark, Rad, or Storm defenders. Unfortunately, that's not the case now. The defender sets I've mentioned all have more than just debuffs and control to bring to their teams:
- Dark has a heal, a rez, and team resist/def/stealth from Shadowfall.
- Storm has a heal (+ minor mez protection) and team resist/def/stealth in the form of Steamy Mist
- Rad has a heal, a rez, and recharge/dmg/end recovery from AM
All three of these existing defender sets also have strong control and debuff options as well.
The problem I'm seeing with Trick Arrow is that its a debuff/control set, without any other real benefit to your teammates. It's fantastic (maybe even too fantastic) for controllers who want extra control options, without having to worry about all that "team support" stuff. However, for defenders who want to support a team in multiple ways, it's underwhelming. I'm concerned that for defenders, the "team oriented AT," Trick Arrow just don't seem team oriented enough.
Yes, it's a fun set to play and has very nice animations. I like my TA defender, and will certainly play her with my husband and friends. However, I doubt that she'll see much use in pickup groups or around casual players. I just don't feel that she contributes as much to a team as a Rad, Dark, or Storm defender might.
That being said, my Grav/Trick Arrow controller is shaping up very nicely indeed. For controllers, Trick Arrow is fantastic as it allows a control/control primary and secondary.
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I'm sure it's been brought up before, but why exactly is this a defender set? Playing an arrow/arrow defender doesn't feel like playing a defender, you feel like a blaster. The trick arrow set, IMO is much better suited as a blaster secondary than a defender primary. Yes it's mostly debuffs, but the overall "feel" of the set is wrong for a defender. What is so defendery about trick arrows? Nothing.
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Well this has been hashed out in several posts. The variety of powers and effects in the TA set make it, in theory, look like a defender along the lines of storm, rad, or dark def. In actuality the long recharge times, weak debuffs, and short durations have made TA feel like a blaster secondary. TA gets a crappy immob that does absolutely nothing. Even web grenades slows attack rate.
I've played TA as both a defender and a troll, and it seems the more its been balanced to my troll powers the more imbalanced its become as my defender's primary power set. It lacks ooomf. Its too slow and Im not sure I trust any of the debuffs at present. I haven't seen many of them quantified, but those that have have been highly sub par.
As is, im planning on playing a troll with TA secondary. A TA def at present does feel more like an archery blaster with TA as his secondary. As a primary I find it to be highly unreliable in its current form.
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We are continuing to look at the set. Being one of the new sets in the game, it is going to be scrutinized beyond just the Training Room server.
If the set continues to prove itself sub-par on the Live servers, then some adjustments will be made.
This was one of the hardest sets to define. It falls out of line with the "normal" Defender sets. It isn't a buff set, its a debuff set. Its really a different playstyle than Defenders have had before.
For those who complain that the Archetypes who have the fewest sets were overlooked... the next planned powersets are melee based.
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I'm sure it's been brought up before, but why exactly is this a defender set? Playing an arrow/arrow defender doesn't feel like playing a defender, you feel like a blaster. The trick arrow set, IMO is much better suited as a blaster secondary than a defender primary. Yes it's mostly debuffs, but the overall "feel" of the set is wrong for a defender. What is so defendery about trick arrows? Nothing.
On another note, from and RPG point of view, what exactly does an arrow blaster pair as a secondary that makes any sense? Nothing. Arrows and energy? Arrows and fire? If your character has those secondary abilities, why wouldn't he/she also have them as primaries? Devices is the only set that legitimately can work with any blaster primary. It makes no sense.
Defenders already have the most versatile mix of primary and secondary abilities, do they really need another? Blasters on the other hand have sets that are painfully repetitive.
I know it's probably too late in this stage of the game to do this kind of swap (making trick arrows a blaster secondary), but really, ask anyone who has tried playing an arrow/arrow defender and ask them, "do you feel like a defender, or a blaster?" The answer should be all you need to know.
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HEAR HEAR!!!!! Completely agree, the only AT that should be able to be Archery/Archery is the blaster... but no.. a blaster has too be what Archery/Devices????? WHY oh why is this soooo?????? Please make a seondary for the blaster AT with Arrows as a secondary.
Please make some changes to the effect for Trick Arrow: Flash Arrow.
While the illusion controller only goes 'bam!' with flash occasionally, the trick arrow set is encouraged to spam this to keep the enemy accuracy down. FLASH FLASH FLASH constantly is really unpleasant.
I find myself having spending more time watching the TA user to see when they're going to use the AAAAGH MY EYES! power so I can look away from my screen in time. I'd rather be focusing on the enemy and worrying about them.
Add more trick-arrow users and it becomes a strobe-light festival. I pity anyone with epilepsy being around trick-arrow users.
Changing it to smoke would be much easier on the eyes. Otherwise I'll only be playing with trick-arrow defenders/controllers when I'm fighting on the back lines, and the white flash doesn't completely nuke out my vision.
Since this is their primary team-defence power (-def!) I can see this being used a lot. Please, think of the eyeballs!
I am sure there has been a lot on this....but I am asking here. I REALLY want an archer, and want one on test...it just seems wrong I have to make a defender to get trick arrow....would you call Green Arrow a defender?? 
(Hopefully I haven't posted here since last dev post, I forget. If so, I apologize).
First off: STOP POSTING NON TA STUFF HERE! I know you really want to talk about new scrapper powersets or whatever, but please stop. I'm not sure why those posts are not removed..
Second: The devs have decided this won't be a blaster secondary, and you know how stubborn they are, so just let it go and lets try and make the best of what we've got.
Anyway, on to TA.
1) I love the way this set is balanced for you having perma-hasten at level 1, it's great!
2) I have a hold that requires 4 SOs (acc/holdx3) to perma hold an even minion/lt!!! That is so insanely useful!!
It appears to be 8 sec base duration, 16s base recharge. Compare that to 15 sec duration/10 sec recharge for controller single target holds. Doesn't that seem a bit much of a disparity?
In addition to doing damage, controller holds can critically hold a boss, I don't think there needs to be much more gimping than that. Consider: controller secondaries function at 75-80% (I forget exact percentage) of defender strength, why shouldn't defender single target holds have that ratio at WORST then? 11.5s duration, 12.5s recharge seems very fair to me. (this is 75% duration and 125% recharge).
3) I really love getting to use glue arrow every fourth or fifth fight, this is great! Very comparable to the rad, storm, and dark toggle debuffs!! /sarcasm off /disgust on. I do really appreciate the long duration of glue on the affected targets - but who cares when those targets are dead??? If my strength is debuffs, I should be able to use those debuffs as often as other defenders...just get off your lazy duffs and program in self debuff stacking prevention FINALLY. Hasn't this been a problem for long enough? Sonic debuff length was nerfed to deal with this problem in the same way instead of addressing the main issue - why in the world are debuffs from the same user stacking??
Yeah I realize this isn't the most educated post coming from someone who only played around with TA at the newb levels - but I was just too frustrated - I can't see how I could play this set on live as is, you couldn't even force me to suffer through the low levels until perma-hasten & SOs. I felt like a blaster with one weak attack and an occasional debuff.
Also, I don't believe it is harmful in any way to compare a newb level TA versus any other newb level defender. With the exception of FF, all others will be stronger out of the box solo - even sonic, who at least has a debuff with a quick recharge (even if it is only single target). And once you factor in a team situation, FF again seems to beat TA with buffs that are always up, as opposed to every 4th battle. Flash arrow might have helped even this gap a bit, but I couldn't convince myself to play the other levels to get it, I just wasn't *grabbed* by this set as a defender. I'm sure I'll enjoy it as a controller secondary though...
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
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Anyway, on to TA.
1) I love the way this set is balanced for you having perma-hasten at level 1, it's great!
2) I have a hold that requires 4 SOs (acc/holdx3) to perma hold an even minion/lt!!! That is so insanely useful!!
It appears to be 8 sec base duration, 16s base recharge. Compare that to 15 sec duration/10 sec recharge for controller single target holds. Doesn't that seem a bit much of a disparity?
In addition to doing damage, controller holds can critically hold a boss, I don't think there needs to be much more gimping than that. Consider: controller secondaries function at 75-80% (I forget exact percentage) of defender strength, why shouldn't defender single target holds have that ratio at WORST then? 11.5s duration, 12.5s recharge seems very fair to me. (this is 75% duration and 125% recharge).
3) I really love getting to use glue arrow every fourth or fifth fight, this is great! Very comparable to the rad, storm, and dark toggle debuffs!! /sarcasm off /disgust on. I do really appreciate the long duration of glue on the affected targets - but who cares when those targets are dead??? If my strength is debuffs, I should be able to use those debuffs as often as other defenders...just get off your lazy duffs and program in self debuff stacking prevention FINALLY. Hasn't this been a problem for long enough? Sonic debuff length was nerfed to deal with this problem in the same way instead of addressing the main issue - why in the world are debuffs from the same user stacking??
Yeah I realize this isn't the most educated post coming from someone who only played around with TA at the newb levels - but I was just too frustrated - I can't see how I could play this set on live as is, you couldn't even force me to suffer through the low levels until perma-hasten & SOs. I felt like a blaster with one weak attack and an occasional debuff.
Also, I don't believe it is harmful in any way to compare a newb level TA versus any other newb level defender. With the exception of FF, all others will be stronger out of the box solo - even sonic, who at least has a debuff with a quick recharge (even if it is only single target). And once you factor in a team situation, FF again seems to beat TA with buffs that are always up, as opposed to every 4th battle. Flash arrow might have helped even this gap a bit, but I couldn't convince myself to play the other levels to get it, I just wasn't *grabbed* by this set as a defender. I'm sure I'll enjoy it as a controller secondary though...
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Right on Lobs. As much as i like having trolls with TA i think the devs are kicking themselves for making it a troll secondary. A troll set w/ TA is a recipe for uber control, something they seem to be against.
I dont know what sort of base they are balancing too, but as a TA def i find myself focusing on damage and getting an odd debuff in every now and again. I dont use ice arrow any more, to much targeting for too little. Entangle arrow is the same way, i only use it on my troll to make sure i get max damage on a boss right out of the gate.
I understand some of the reasoning behind the longer recharge times, but yeah, its mostly haste. Make it a toggle or atleast non perma, dont make everyone get it. Without haste TA feels incredibly limited. It slots out eventually, but the low lvls are becoming very uncool.
Thnx for letting us slot Flash arrow with acc. I think it should be auto hit, but i'll take the enhancment.
Wow, TA sucks. It is just bad. Really really bad. I didn't try it before the nerfs, so it might have needed to be toned down a little. I don't know. But you overdid it. It's just crap now.
Entangling Arrow - does nothing. Worst power ever. We get this instead of a heal for the first power, it should at least have an effect. It is inferior to the immobilize powers of controllers and blasters because theirs at least do damage. And take effect as soon as they hit instead of 2 seconds later. And don't have a stupidly long animation time. Plus a weapon draw time. And why on earth was the accuracy bonus removed?
Flash Arrow - does nothing. The accuracy debuff is so small to be unnoticable. And stealth has been nerfed to be ineffective in I5 anyway.
Glue Arrow - does something. Now that you're level 2, you can use a power to actually affect a battle. Not drastically mind you, but it can have a small effect on how much damage people take. Every 2 minutes. That's obviously not something you'll get to use every fight... because it would be too powerful for you to use your only marginally effective power in every fight.
Ice arrow - at least it's a hold. It's the worst hold in the game, bar none, but its the best power we've got so far so you can't complain too much. And you can use it every fight! The animation time is almost as long as the hold duration though, so you can't do much else.
That's as far as I've gotten with it, but why would I want to go farther? By level 6, you still can't even put up a passable semblance of being a defender. The only primary power you can use consistently is a feeble hold. Instead of being useful to a team, you're just an inferior controller. Vastly inferior in fact considering controllers do x2 damage now when they hold someone.
You have to fix this.
Glue arrow needs to be usable every fight. At the very least.
Ice arrow needs to be able to perma hold (or close) out of the box.
Flash arrow needs to do a debuff. One that has a noticable effect on enemy accuracy. You know, make them miss occasionally. Like all the other defender debuff powers. Darkest Night, Radiation Infection, Hurricane - am I getting through here?
Entangling arrow needs to be scrapped and replaced with a useful power. Really, this is the worst power in the game.
The animation time for every power in the set needs to be reduced.
At lower levels Mind/TA is a really nasty combo. Entangle an mob, then hit them with, by level 6, for your 3 attacks, mez, dominate, leviate, for double damage. Since, entangling arrow recharges so quickly I can pretty much apply it to every mob to get the damage bonus.
On a clockwork mission, I four shot a orange lt. I could easily one shot even minions, after entangle, so you could call it two shots. Though entangle costs almost no end and recharges in a few seconds, I could machine gun the power.
A fight would go something like this, 2 even minions, entangle one, mez the other, leviate the first one, dead, dominate the second one, dead.
I have to agree that it's a great controller secondary, but it needs some kind of buff or heal. One ideal would be a ground targeted aoe that either acts like a regen buff, def buff, or status defense. Like a short duration version of the DE buff plants. Otherwise, it's going to be hurting for group utility worst than storm.
No one is sayign TA isn't a great controller secodnary. Everyone however seems to agree that TA is a substandard defender primary.
Entagle arrow is the worst immob in the game. Unless you are a troll it has no effect other than to make a badguy stand still. No slow, no damage, nothing.
Ice arrow is a good hold, but it last such a short time as to be a waste of end.
Flash arrow rarely hits anything, and when it does it shows no substantial effect what so ever.
Glue arrow is great, but without slotting it heavily for recharge and picking up haste you dont get to use it enough to make a lasting difference to your team. Its you most effective early power, but its not readily useable til mid game.
Poison arrow seems to work, i haven't tested it much, and i've already got haste, so I cant really comment on it.
Alot of these post have had the same tone. Can we get a dev response on this? Even if you just say, "we wanted to make it more _________". Im enthusiastic to play with TA on live, but it need some work before I'll be whole pleased with it.
Entangle Arrow seems like a useful tool for the set, as TA has so many Location AoE skills you don't want mobs to walk out of. And while I think the recharge debuff with all the other debuffs may be to much stacking, the fact is that I think defenders should be debuffing if they can. How about making the power stand out more with a debuff that is seldom given?
I say give it a -range debuff. Theme wise it's easy to say that the net restricts the movement of arms and legs, limiting how far they can raise that gun, swing that sword, etc. That'll do wonders to protect squishies in the back, as well as the melee character being charged from behind (provided the mobs are far enough away). Of course, there should be a floor to the range debuff allowable, like anything else, but I think that would help the power become a much more viable selection for defenders and more than "just another immobilize" for controllers who have to pick it up anyway.
I think the intent of Ice Arrow is to debuff with the hold as a nice bonus when stacking with other characters or on low guys. So instead of "the worse hold in the game" I see it more as "single target -speed -recharge, may hold". After all, the first thing I think about with defenders should be debuffing.
Now...since I only get one post til we hear from a red name, I should also state that the supposed "strength" from TA is the ability to debuff recharge, acc, res, damage, speed, and defense. That's darn close to every major stat. While Toggle Debuffers can keep their stuff up longer the constant end use limits them, while the Click debuffer is free to roam after applying all their skills. It stands to reason that a TA defender can heal allies with the medicine pool for example or contribute to damage, which seems like a dev tool to distinguish click debuff and toggle debuff in play style.
And for the love of all things holy, I stand in strict opposition of giving every defender a heal 'cause they're a defender. And yes, you could rationalize any set to have a healing power if that's what you desire, but giving everyone heals slowly takes away from Emp defenders and leads to never ending frustration for those few defenders who don't take heals (for whatever reason). But this is one man's opinion.
(grammar editted)
Not that this is news to anyone, but this set really sucks.
Add in the rediculous end hungry archery set and TA/A def's just gotta be left on the curb.
Statesman, I am finding through normal gameplay at low levels on a team of 3 to 4 semi balanced, that being 2 blasters and 2 Defenders that Trick arrow glue arrows Duration is about right, most groups are down before the wear off on a team that size, however....
The duration makes it only viable in 1 of 5 groups. We hit one group of 5 to six mobs and use glue arrow, then I am not able to use it till 5 groups later on the average. While yes there are powers that can be used to buff the recharge speed, I think the innate recharge of 120 seconds is a bit on the longish side. Something more along the lines of 75 Seconds to 90 seconds would line up a little more reasonably, even considering recharge reduction SOs, which I am finding again in normal game play hard to get with the influence game granted alone, powers like hasten, etc...would find it more viable for group to group fights, even every other group would be superior to 1 in 5.
I can only imagine on an 8 man team, with a higher difficulty setting that the 120 second recharge would be acceptable, and the 30 second duration, which yes, while enhanceable, too short. Most long running Non AV fights last upwards of 1 minute, to 1 minute and 30 seconds on the outside.
I would request a reconsideration on the recharge timer on this power to bring it more inline to what an average person might find usage for it still bearing in mind the typical powergamer min maxing. 90 seconds probably might be a better time to look at.
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No one is sayign TA isn't a great controller secodnary. Everyone however seems to agree that TA is a substandard defender primary.
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Exactly.
I understand that in its original form TA was too powerful. After making it to level 6, I already knew the whole set was gonna get nerfed. But the changes made were too extreme. There has to be a solution that works without making every single power we have situational.
Ice arrow: was good, but is now barely worth taking for TA, given how many slots you need to put into it to make it useful.
Flash arrow: pretty good for stealth tactics, but the acc debuff is barely noticable, if its even in effect at all.
Glue arrow: it would be pretty sweet if I could ever use it. Raise the duration at 30. Drop the recharge to 45. Don't let it accept recharge enhancements.
Acid arrow: again, it would be pretty sweet if I could ever use it. When it had good damage, this was a pretty worthwhile attack, but obviously unfair at the speed it recharged. Now that the DoT is "fixed", why increase the duration? Again, I'd rather a lower recharge rate were set and not be able to enhance it. The radius of the effect is really too small given the recharge/duration/acc.
I finally got to 20 right before the first patch was applied to test, increasing the recharge times. I got stamina, and I thought "sweet, now I wont have to stop for 40 seconds after every fight to regain my health and endurance". But now I have to wait even longer for my powers to recharge. Or I can not wait, and go in and die.
I don't want perma-hasten, and I don't want stacking of my powers(except flash arrow, since it doesnt seem to do much anyway). I firmly believe that given the choice, most TA/* defs would give up the ability to have their powers stack if it meant they could use them at all. Please find another solution to prevent stacking, such as the pet method or even the fortitude method (stacks from different players, not from 1).
If you are going to avoid self stacking with long recharges, I recomend having 4 "effective" aoe powers available by level 12. By effective I mean about 25% damage mitigation each. Then you can have, say, 30 sec durations, 2 minute recharge times. Noone will be able to stack same power twice (without outside recharge buffs) but the defender will always have the option to keep a 25% mitigation debuff out there for his party.
I'd do it this way:
slot 1: entangling arrow
slot 2 - flash arrow, 30 sec blind, -15% to hit debuff, 30 seconds, 2 min recharge, autohit.
slot 3 - glue arrow, 30 sec -25% recharge, -75% move rate, 30 seconds, 2 min recharge, autohit
slot 4 - poison arrow, 30 sec -25% damage, -30% defense 30 sec duration, 2 min recharge, autohit
slot 5 - acid arrow, 30 sec 25% chance per target apply mag2 hold, 2 min recharge, -20% resistence autohit
slot 6 - ice arrow
slot 7- the damage resonence arrow, 30 sec duration, 2 min recharge, -20% resistence debuff.
slot 8 - oil slick
slot 9 - emp arrow
I have some issues with Trick Arrow. I love the idea of the set, but it seems it was put together with less balance between 'story aspect' and 'gameplay aspect' than I would like. Here are some suggestions.
1) Recharge times. It doesn't feel right to fire off an arrow, thn have to wait a long time to root around in my quiver for that arrow again. Please find another solution to self-stacking. I would much rather have 10- or 15-second Durations and not be able to slot Recharge Enhancers, as well as have the powers simply not stack. Let one of the advantages of the power set be quick recharges to balance it's lack of buffs. It simply would feel more like archery.
2) Interrupt times. This set should have a small interrupt window on every power. It's silly to be firing off Trick Arrows while being knocked on my behind all the time. Balance the Interruptibility with the aforementioned shorter Recharge or increased Accuracy, please.
Now on to individual powers...
Entangle Arrow adding an additional appropriate debuff to this power would make it attractive without making it over powered. Some -acc, -def, -recharge, whatever.
Flash Arrow (and smoke grenade, for that matter). A power that creates a loud, bright explosion near my foes that they don't notice? You are stretching my RP ability here 
. At the very least, upgrade the foes' idle stances from 'oblivious' to 'suspicious/just finished a fight/just saw a Hero run by' animations. At least. It would make me plenty happy if you eliminated the -perception entirely and increased the accuracy debuff, and/or added a Defense Debuff and/or a short Disorient. When I set off an explosion near my foes, they should come running at me! Shouldn't it accept Range Enhancements?
Glue Arrow Simply don't let this power stack, and let it be fired off more often, even if you have to tone down the degree of Slow and - recharge somewhat. As is, this power works well, but the long Recharge is too much.
Ice Arrow no complaints.
Poison Gas Arrow needs more effects beside 'foe -dmg' with that name. In fact, the name should be changed to something less villainous, like 'sleep gas arrow' or 'KO gas arrow' or even 'nerve gas arrow'. With the name change, please add a small chance of minion Sleep to it's list of effects.
Acid Arrow Is this supposed to take Damage Resistance Enhancements? Otherwise, no complaints. You might want to add extra damage against Doors and Objects, since that would be very comic-booky.
I haven't goten to powers beyond this point, but here's a few comments any way.
Disruption Arrow might be a bit much to have another stacking Resistance-lowering power here. Perhaps something like a single-target 'Boss/AV fight' arrow that zaps endurance recovery and hp regeneration instead?
Oil Slick Arrow This looks cool, and I love the idea of having it be flammable and synergystic with other powers. The set has a lot of -speed, though. Perhaps -jump?
EMP Arrow A PBAoE arrow? Um, no. Give it Range at the cost of the Magnitude or Duration or Area of the effect or something, please. And self -recovery? How does that work? No, you don't have to make it overpowered with a self-gimping feature just because it's a Final Power. Instead, to make it situational, have the base effect be a Disorient backed up by a chance of a Hold.
Anyway, those are my suggestions for now. Perhaps more after the next Dev comment.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
The Trick Arrow power set was overpowered originally, but things have now gone far too far the other direction. Durations are too short compared to recharge times. The developers need to strike a happy medium and stop swinging between extremes.
im soo glad this is a dev response post. I would hate to think no one cared enough about our opinion on this subject that we would never get a response to the issues so many people seem to have had with what has been a very anticipated set. It would be terrible if we only got one vauge post about how this is a new set and it needs further work. I like to think someone will eventually tell us why entangle arrow has no secondary effect?......or why glue arrow cant be made to not stack with itself so we can use what seems to be our core power more often than every other, or even every third fight?...... or why flash arrow, when throughly tested, shows no effect on enemies' accuracy? I know cuppa is angry and not making dev response threads anymore cause people posted to many times between dev resposnes, but im angry because we've been absolutely ignored. I would appreaciate even a "hey, we're still lookin' at it" instead of the absolute nothing with which we have been presented. Dont complain to me about people not following rules when noone on your side seems to be playing along with the spirit of the excercise.
If this is the point where i get kicked from the boards, fine, Its not like anyone is listening anyway.
Well, here I go breaking the rules. However, I invoke the statute of limitations here. It's been 35 days since Trick Arrow was broken via the implementation of insane recharge times. It's been 20 days since we got a red name response in this thread, and that response didn't even respond to any of our concerns. In fact, the implication was that it was going live as-is, and might be changed at some later date, "If the set continues to prove itself sub-par on the Live servers." Clearly, that quote acknowledges that it is currently sub-par (otherwise it couldn't continue to be so). Step up to the plate and fix it now.
So, delete this post if you absolutely must, but before making that decision at least acknowledge that 35 days is too long to wait for meaningful feedback after such drastic changes, and tickle Positron until he comes back and lets us know we haven't wasted our time testing and posting our feedback here.
It's quite possible that the set might be workable at higher levels, with Hasten, and with heavy slotting for recharge. However, at low levels this is a painful set to play. My wife and I play a duo on test, myself a Trick Arrow/Arrow Defender and she an Arrow/Devices Blaster (both level 10 currently). The absolute best tool I have for keeping her alive is Aid Other, and that's just not right (Glue Arrow helps significantly when it's up, but that's not often so it's usually reserved for emergencies and boss fights; Ice Arrow helps a little but has a really long animation time).
Glue Arrow is simply not available often enough. For a power that only slows movement and recharge, a two-minute wait is absurd. As I have said before, make the power available as soon as the duration wears off, or close to it, and fix the actual problem of self-stacking effects. Also, I can't think of any logical reason why this power does not have -jump and -fly like all the other slow powers (hell, even Caltrops has -fly, and I can't figure that one out).
Flash Arrow reportedly doesn't have any noticeable effect on enemy accuracy. I haven't had the patience to test this, but enough people have that the devs and testing team really should, and report back to us. Also, having a to-hit roll on this power puts it at a complete disadvantage to all the other -acc powers that Defenders and Controllers have access to. Consider removing this and making it auto-hit (with the actual effect scaling to hero vs. villain level difference, of course). And please don't justify doing so by adding to its recharge time, that would be insulting.
Web Arrow ... I can't imagine any TA/ Defender taking this power. It's currently a worse power than Web Grenade, which I have not seen any /Devices blaster use in a long, long time. This set is a Defender primary; if the power is too unbalanced for Controllers, address that directly without impacting Defenders.
As has been said before, Trick Arrow is strictly a debuffing set. Currently, my Dark Miasma and Radiation Emission characters can debuff better than this set due to the hellacious recharges imposed upon TA. Those sets can also heal and buff. I'm not asking for heals and buffs in TA, just that it actually be balanced to the other debuff sets in terms of usefulness.
Ok, back with some hard testing with the adjusted TA. Ah, since glue arrow is still a staple defence power, it's useless. I have it in a mission for every third battle. Poison arrow now has zero AOE duration, but those who are effected by the inital burst stay effected for a few seconds. Ok, fine. I'm still not seeing a noticable effect from Poison Arrow's damage debuff. I think it's lowering damage taken by maybe 5 points at most. Big deal.
Since the powers I rely on to defend myself and others take two minutes to recharge, I don't use then much. This of course meens I'm not defending. Now that entangle arrow's big debuff is -jump/fly, big deal. That meens it's usefull for knocking flyers out of the air, and that's it. Flash Arrow still isn't really worth a damn. Why do I feel that way? It's debuff still fades about as fast as buildup's buff does.
Because of the gutting I spent five hours working on gaining one level. I reached level 11 finaly. Will I roll a new TA defender once it hits live? Maybe, but not likely. I just want to see a flamable oil slick. If I do, you can bet I'll be interested in powerleveling since the set as is can't defend it's self very well. Forget about defending a team.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Can i get a ruling here? i get removed for agreeing for someone?
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It got removed because you exceeded the one post/per dev post limit. Happened to me too, earlier in the thread.
I haven't leveled past the mid-teens with TA. I *think* that once I get into the 20s, where I can have both SO Recharge and enough slots in powers to make a difference, then the set will be playable, but it will be a slow road to get there. I think this is going to discourage people from playing TA (or, perhaps worse, playing with people who play TA), or it's going to give even more incentive to people to take perma-Hasten. I'm also concerned about the durations when playing on larger teams, where battles will outlast the debuffs. Haven't had the opportunity to see whether or not this will be a major issue, but it's something I'm watching.
"Trust me, it worked in the Simpsons." - Calash