Please make an appointment to raid our base...
By
9783_Dollar_Man,
Posted on: 2005-05-30 24:54 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
you people need to drop this, this is to keep NON-PvP players happy, and for you PvP players: at least you get this much. They didnt even HAVE to put base raids in, or bases for that matter. so just stop [censored] , if you dont like it then make your own damn game and you can put whatever you want in it
"The Hollows was a cover up; it was really caused by Blue Steel experimenting with Foot Stomp." - Steelclaw
<-- boy
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you people need to drop this, this is to keep NON-PvP players happy, and for you PvP players: at least you get this much. They didnt even HAVE to put base raids in, or bases for that matter. so just stop [censored] , if you dont like it then make your own damn game and you can put whatever you want in it
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Why should they drop it? Personally I hate PvP and never intend to play it, doesn't mean I can discuss it with PvP players. They have legitimate concerns about how a, for them, important aspect of the game will work, why can't they discuss it?
Discussion threads like these are important, you cannot have everything your way as a game has to cater to all its players, however you can have a reasonably happy medium. The point of threads like these is to try and find that medium.
So I'd rather the didn't drop it and I'd rather people like you stopped trying to push across the view that everyone else is wrong and you are right.
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I'm not saying the whole idea is doomed, what I am saying is that there will need to be an incredible incentive to want to keep the items in your base to make it worth the hassle, that of course will then lead to other problems, if the item gives you something really cool then it will also give an unfair advantage over people who dislike and do not want to participate in PvP
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Well the devs have stated that all rewards gained from PvP will only be of benefit in PvP. What they will be doing is making certain content only available for those who PvP, that includes PvE missions set in PvP zones which are completely opitional. Remember that the devs need to draw people into PvP who won't normally try it so no matter how you cut it the people who don't want to do PvP will be missing some significant PvE content. That content is of course optional but the lure has to be there to make heroes vs villain PvP appealing enough to justify the effort going into that part of the game.
I'm not an avid PvPer, I do however enjoy it when theres the opitunity and its well balanced. If the devs decide to go the route whereby someone can defeat me just because they're 3 levels higher than my character then my interest in PvP will drop significantly. But if they implement a system whereby a player's skills are more important than the level then my interest in PvP will increase significantly.
As it stands though, I'm on the fence. The PvP element in CoV seems like a big chunk of the game and if its designed to appeal only to hardcore PvPers and not casual pvp players then I can see it flopping as baddly as the arena.
Some folks have already mentioned this but it really needs to be restated. Having some warning allows the owners of the object and/or base to at least be there to defend. In DAoC there was no such system. You would spend all day on a saturday or sunday running around trying to obtain relics and then you would wake up the next day to find out a rival group waited till 4 am when no one was around to defend to raid and take your items. That takes all the fun out of even trying to go after the items again.
If you want to raid empty bases to take items when no one is there and give yourself a guaranteed victory then maybe playing a MMO isnt for you. There is no fun in that. I would rather play all night against the best the otherside has to offer and lose then to fill myself with some type of false pride that I stole your stuff while you were sleeping.
The warning system is perfect. If I get the warning and cant make it to my own base in time or cant get enough people together to help defend then fine but at least I have a chance to defend what I spent my time to create.
One of the first rules of game design is that when realism conflicts with fun, fun wins.
The goal of base raiding is to make it an event, something both sides can look forward to, strategize for, and participate in. Unannounced raids might be "realistic" (and I use quotes here because we are talking about a comic book) but they sure aren't much fun for the defenders. If I have to be on line all the time, am forced to bail missions because I have to go defend my base, or find someone trashed our base at 11 AM just because my SG has to deal with real-life things like jobs and work, well that is not fun.
To be fun, a base raid has to feel exciting -- and fair. That means fair to both sides. That means giving both SG's notice so both groups can organize their members, make arrangements to be online and develop plans. Scheduling will actually strengthen SG's -- it gives them more purpose, more "We need to be online at this time."
We are also looking at some other options for "instant raids" for pick up play, but again finding ways to keep things from being a no-fun grief fest.
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One of the first rules of game design is that when realism conflicts with fun, fun wins.
The goal of base raiding is to make it an event, something both sides can look forward to, strategize for, and participate in. Unannounced raids might be "realistic" (and I use quotes here because we are talking about a comic book) but they sure aren't much fun for the defenders. If I have to be on line all the time, am forced to bail missions because I have to go defend my base, or find someone trashed our base at 11 AM just because my SG has to deal with real-life things like jobs and work, well that is not fun.
To be fun, a base raid has to feel exciting -- and fair. That means fair to both sides. That means giving both SG's notice so both groups can organize their members, make arrangements to be online and develop plans. Scheduling will actually strengthen SG's -- it gives them more purpose, more "We need to be online at this time."
We are also looking at some other options for "instant raids" for pick up play, but again finding ways to keep things from being a no-fun grief fest.
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From those of us with jobs: thank you!
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One of the first rules of game design is that when realism conflicts with fun, fun wins.
The goal of base raiding is to make it an event, something both sides can look forward to, strategize for, and participate in. Unannounced raids might be "realistic" (and I use quotes here because we are talking about a comic book) but they sure aren't much fun for the defenders. If I have to be on line all the time, am forced to bail missions because I have to go defend my base, or find someone trashed our base at 11 AM just because my SG has to deal with real-life things like jobs and work, well that is not fun.
To be fun, a base raid has to feel exciting -- and fair. That means fair to both sides. That means giving both SG's notice so both groups can organize their members, make arrangements to be online and develop plans. Scheduling will actually strengthen SG's -- it gives them more purpose, more "We need to be online at this time."
We are also looking at some other options for "instant raids" for pick up play, but again finding ways to keep things from being a no-fun grief fest.
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From those of us with jobs: thank you!
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From those of us without lives: GRRRR!
I kinda expected it to be this way and I say, it's a good choice.
Wow, so like, I don't have to worry about anyone raiding my base while I'm asleep? Perfect! Take that, griefers!
Although I do not disagree with the scheduling of raids, I do recall back in my MUD days that guildhall takeovers could happen at any time, and certainly made things interesting. Is the playerbase that much different in CoH? Just thinking out loud.
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One of the first rules of game design is that when realism conflicts with fun, fun wins.
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Think you could tell Statesman that? 
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Regarding the stealth nerf to Burn and Rain powers
From: Statesman
I'm afraid there's not much to comment on.
It's ridiculous to expect that a mob would sit helplessly in a fire. They're being hurt, after all.
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One of the first rules of game design is that when realism conflicts with fun, fun wins.
The goal of base raiding is to make it an event, something both sides can look forward to, strategize for, and participate in. Unannounced raids might be "realistic" (and I use quotes here because we are talking about a comic book) but they sure aren't much fun for the defenders. If I have to be on line all the time, am forced to bail missions because I have to go defend my base, or find someone trashed our base at 11 AM just because my SG has to deal with real-life things like jobs and work, well that is not fun.
To be fun, a base raid has to feel exciting -- and fair. That means fair to both sides. That means giving both SG's notice so both groups can organize their members, make arrangements to be online and develop plans. Scheduling will actually strengthen SG's -- it gives them more purpose, more "We need to be online at this time."
We are also looking at some other options for "instant raids" for pick up play, but again finding ways to keep things from being a no-fun grief fest.
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Tower Raids in AO had this problem. Was on countless teams that broke up because 1 or more members had to run off to defend their towers. I rather like this idea. And if it dosnt seem "realistic" you can pretend, say if your the villian base, that you heard threw the underworld grapevine that the heroes are planning to attack, so you have a chance to get ready, or vise versa.
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If I have to be on line all the time, am forced to bail missions because I have to go defend my base, or find someone trashed our base at 11 AM just because my SG has to deal with real-life things like jobs and work, well that is not fun.
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So your real life consists of jobs and work?!
Dude, you need a vacation! 
Yet **AGAIN** the devs for the game come through in spades!
As a working man with a family of 5, and the co-Admin of a guild of similiar people, this is the only system that is managable. Everything I'm reading makes the CoV system a hybrid of DOAC RvR and SB GvG...and I LOVE IT. A reason to GvG...and the ability to fit it into your lives without being griefed by those...well without the same responsibilities.
/emote tips hat to Cryptic/NCSoft again. Keep up the great work!!! 
I assume a safeguard will be put in to prevent a SG from monopolizing a relic by simply NEVER being available to be raided. If these relics have any kind of benefit, a SG could just lock it away in their unraidable base.
I definately agree that it'd be bad to have your base raided at 4am when everyone's sleeping, but the other side of it is that there should be times you must put yourself up to be raided.
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We are also looking at some other options for "instant raids" for pick up play, but again finding ways to keep things from being a no-fun grief fest.
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Oooh, good point. The current base raid system doesn't have to be the *only* system. That could be used for big raids, and then other types of raids could satisfy the sneak attack style or the quick fun style of Team PvP.
For sneak attack style fun, what if some groups designed bases specifically for being attacked when nobody was there? Basically they'd be just making their own little level for the game. They'd flag how many people it is designed for (2-4 or 6-8, for example) and then open it up for buisiness.
Any time the base is empty, the base would then go on a list of available stealth attack bases. People would be able to select it from the terminal in their own bases and warp in to run the gauntlet. The base architect gets rewards for how many groups attack his base, with bigger rewards for how long it takes the enemies to get to the "Prize" at the end. The prize regenerates for new teams, so as many people can try it as want to. The teams get scored on how fast they get the prize.
Make that one have no real in-game advantage. Just make it a fun thing like playing Capture the Flag in a Half-Life mod, and I'd play a ton of it. There'd be no need to exploit it that way, just a bunch of people seeing how well they could do against the villian's lair.
Why not just have bases only be raid-able if there is a minimum number of people inside. Maybe the number of players on the raiding party cannot exceed the number of people in the base.
Then when a group wanted to raid a base they would have a list of available bases, if they select one it could show up on the nav window.
By doing this people who were in their bases could be raided at anytime and have to defend their base, but those who were not at their base wouldn't have to worry about it.
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I assume a safeguard will be put in to prevent a SG from monopolizing a relic by simply NEVER being available to be raided. If these relics have any kind of benefit, a SG could just lock it away in their unraidable base.
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The way I read it, having a relic at all means you're available to be raided. It looks like the attackers say when they're going to be raiding (with, presumably, a minimum amount of notice) and if the defenders aren't there to meet them, then too bad.
Here's an idea I like. You have to option of setting base raids to schedule or anytime. The catch is that the number of base raiders at an anytime raid can only be less than or equal to the number of base defenders online at the time. So if there's only 1 member of the SG online, only 1 attacker is allowed in the base, and a tell is sent to the defender, wherever he is that his base is being raided and to come at once, ( with a click box that will automatically teleport him to the base wherever he is.)
Doesn't matter if the raider is level 50 and the defender is level 10, that's the chance you take when you set it to anytime.
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One of the first rules of game design is that when realism conflicts with fun, fun wins.
The goal of base raiding is to make it an event, something both sides can look forward to, strategize for, and participate in. Unannounced raids might be "realistic" (and I use quotes here because we are talking about a comic book) but they sure aren't much fun for the defenders. If I have to be on line all the time, am forced to bail missions because I have to go defend my base, or find someone trashed our base at 11 AM just because my SG has to deal with real-life things like jobs and work, well that is not fun.
To be fun, a base raid has to feel exciting -- and fair. That means fair to both sides. That means giving both SG's notice so both groups can organize their members, make arrangements to be online and develop plans. Scheduling will actually strengthen SG's -- it gives them more purpose, more "We need to be online at this time."
We are also looking at some other options for "instant raids" for pick up play, but again finding ways to keep things from being a no-fun grief fest.
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Just a thought but can you make it so that there is a "flag" of sorts for this?
Like if a SG really wants to be in the "instant raiding" they can sign up or check off a little option when creating their base that says, "You can raid this base at any time"?
Seems easy enough to do but I don't/can't think of all the ramifications of doing so. And of course if the SG did check that "instant raiding" checkbox when making their base when someone raids it maybe give the defending SG a message like,
"X SG is on the outskirts of your base! Within 2 minutes they will be inside of the base...please report to the base immediately!"
Just my thoughts.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
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Yet **AGAIN** the devs for the game come through in spades!
As a working man with a family of 5, and the co-Admin of a guild of similiar people, this is the only system that is managable. Everything I'm reading makes the CoV system a hybrid of DOAC RvR and SB GvG...and I LOVE IT. A reason to GvG...and the ability to fit it into your lives without being griefed by those...well without the same responsibilities.
/emote tips hat to Cryptic/NCSoft again. Keep up the great work!!!
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I have to agree on this one, I think its a wonderful idea and will actually make things very enjoyable. Only think I have to think about is which side should I be on, good guys or bad guys..lol
Lets be realistic: these are comic book villains and heroes.
When has a true villain been able to hold his urges to call the good guys on their big screen (i hope we get big com screens for contacts and this stuff) and brag on how they will trash them good?
And what hero does not takes the time to call upon villain to give them a final warning before using force and take back the stolen goods?
You see, agreeng to raid is ACTUALY comic book realistic!!! 
I'd say it is. There's some parents, even GRANDPARENTS playing this game. Many have jobs and/or school and/or lives outside our comp, and with the rising average age of gamers (not because less kids game, just that a lot more of us STILL play like we did 10~20 years ago which brings up the bellcurve), and one of the appealing things of CoH is that you CAN get on for 20-40 minutes for a mission or two, and then go back to what you have to do.
Part of this is the soloing; which is why balance is so critical
another part is the mission system; you can just do one quick mission and that's it. There's longer stuff available, but all except the 'timed' missions can be paused... which is far different from letting your lootable, killable character down in the middle of a dungeon for 2 hours while you go fix up lunch!
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One of the first rules of game design is that when realism conflicts with fun, fun wins.
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It's ridiculous to expect that a mob would sit helplessly in a fire. They're being hurt, after all.
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Hmm....
Excellent call, m'lord. This is something I've been a bit concerned about, so it's good to hear.
Clarification, though: when you say scheduled, does this mean that both sides have to agree on a time, or that the raiding party sets a time (which presumably has to be a certain minimum distance into the future) and the defending party hears about that time and has to be there (even if it's, say, 4:30am)?
The basic thing they are trying to address here is how to make things fair. I see people have already mentioned the problems with Dawn Raids and Ninja Raids, but I see another problem as well....
Power levels, so imagine you have Uber PVP SG 'L33T L00T D00DS!' and you have a RP Based Villian Group, now the PVP Hamidon Farmers are going have all +3 HOs and player killing optimised builds, the others are going to have interesting concepts and maybe a few of whatever the CoV equivilent of HOs turns out to be. Who do you think is going to win?
In all likelyhood it will get very old very fast and you will find a vast majority of groups just won't bother collecting the items of power as they can't be bothered to deal with all the PvP rubbish that comes with it.
I'm not saying the whole idea is doomed, what I am saying is that there will need to be an incredible incentive to want to keep the items in your base to make it worth the hassle, that of course will then lead to other problems, if the item gives you something really cool then it will also give an unfair advantage over people who dislike and do not want to participate in PvP.
It's complicated and I do not envy the designers/developers their job in sorting this one out. No matter what they come up with people are going to complain about how it gives X and unfair advantage over Y.
Me, well for my £x a month I'll just completely avoid the entire PvP part of the game and concentrate on having, what I consider to be, fun.