That idea Statesman holds til about the early 20s when scrapper defenses start getting good. By the late 20s scrapper defenses more than compensate for that.
We are not damage kings at range in a large team anyways because of Kheldians. 
I think you need to play CoH more Stateman, your really loseing touch with the community on this one.
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Blasters are listed as the damage kings yet their damage is capped BELOW that of scrappers. Why?
The max damage of a Blaster is 400%...a Scrapper is 500%. We did this because the Scrapper is involved in melee and thus in a riskier situation far more often. Blasters, on the other hand, can pick and choose their targets from a distance.
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That was - and is - the reason why Blaster damage is capped lower than Scrappers. I did forget to add that the ranged attacks of mobs deal less damage (typically) than melee attacks - and the Blaster is generally the target of raned attacks.
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1. Open mouth
2. Insert foot
3. Check the internal servers to see if devs are playing the same game...again.
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H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Well, what happens to the game if everyoen is as self-sufficient as scrappers?
[/ QUOTE ]Everyone enjoys the game as much as scrappers do?
Seriously though, for a blaster, it doesn't seem to matter how good the tanker is. As an electric blaster, the weakest from a damage standpoint, using my weakest AoE (Ball Lightning, only 3 slotted for damage), I can pull mobs right off the tank with regularity. Its not too much to ask that I hold that AoE with my elec blaster, and what the heck he's 50 so how much do I really play him now? But for my fire blaster there's almost nothing I can do that won't turn me into the glass tank. So much so that I have almost quit playing him in a group, and consequntly aalmost quit playing him altogether. My Warshade in Nova form is somewhere in between these extremes, but I have to admit he feels a ton more effective solo. In groups I feel I have to constantly hold back.. Where's the fun (or the heroics) in that?
-Long Version-
It all comes down to this, States has balanced Blasters and Scrappers based on the illusion that range puts you out of danger and that melee puts you in danger. As stated many times before, this is not true.
Mobs can outrange Blasters with ease.
Blasters can be easily be stunned from range, and once a blaster is immoblized or otherwise stunned mobs close to melee and kill the Blaster.
Many Blaster attacks have a short range (Power burst, cones) and while the Blaster is rooted mobs can easily close into melee or stun.
The most simple solutions to these problems are , give Blasters a defense buff based on distance from thier enemies, increasing damage so that most of the enemies are defeated upon the initial attack, make Blaster attacks have very short activation times reducing the amount of time spent rooted, remove some of the ranged capabilities from enemies.
Blasters are currently a very fragile AT defined by very cautious and even cowardly tactics. It is not very heroic, or fun, to have to pull a group of enemies around a corner so you don't get slaughtered by thier initial attack, or to have to snipe then hide behind a box for fear of getting attacked or stunned. Comic book Blasters are (usually) reckless, flashy, and high damage dealers. They lay waste to foes left and right, they seem unstoppable, until someone takes one lucky shot and they get knocked down. At that point it is all downhill. In game terms this means Blasters should be near untouchable if they are at range away from the worst of the battle. However they should be screwed by stunners, who can bring everything crashing down.
By taking these ideas I think the best solution would be to either give Blasters a range dependent defense buff, that would make it difficult to deal enough damage to kill them, but a stun would quickly put the Blaster in a very bad situation. If that is not possible then the other course of action would be to increase Blaster damage so that simple minions posed little threat while the Lts and Bosses, typically the stunners, would remain a dangerous foe.
Wow, I typed alot.
-Short Version-
Range should give a defense buff or Blasters should be able to kill enough enemies that attacking a group head on is not a total loss.
This will make Blasters more like thier comic book counter parts and should make them more fun to play.
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TAKE A LONG HARD LOOK AT ALL BLASTER PRIMARY POWERS AND REDUCE THE AGGRO GENERATED BY THESE POWERS TO EIGHTY PERCENT OF THE AGGRO A SCRAPPER CAN GENERATE AND YOU WILL BE TAKING A FIRST BIG STEP TO MAKING A BLASTER VIABLE IN HIGH-LEVEL GROUPS!!!
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You would probably end up where you already are.
from memory, scrappers generate +25% aggro on attacks, and tankers generate +50% aggro.
(this is why you can both pound on a single target and even though the tank does less damage he still keeps the aggro)
I think a 75% reduction on the *current* agro, is not out of the question, however i dont think it would help as much as some people here think. The main problem is that when blasters use their AoE they are generating aggro on targets that have no existing aggro on them, in this case you could drop the blaster aggro to 5% and it would be the same. I would hope for new agro dropping powers in the support secondary AND a general reduction in Aggro/damage for blasters.
If Blaster damage caps are lower than Scrappers because Scrappers are in melee and Blasters (ideally) aren't, how do you explain the fact that a Scrapper in melee is safer than a Blaster at range? Yes, ranged attacks are weaker than melee attacks... but at least in the 30+ game they are still dangerous. Some enemies hit almost as hard at range as in melee, and pretty much all of them hit at least 1/3 to 1/2 as hard. So at MOST, Scrappers are only getting 2-3 times as much damage thrown at them as Blasters.
The problem with that is that Scrapper defenses are MORE than three times better than Blaster defenses. Hitting a Scrapper with 900 points of damage ends up hurting him less than hitting a Blaster with 300 - 400 damage. Add in the fact that Blasters get their toggles dropped often AT RANGE because they have zero status resists while Scrappers almost never get THEIRS dropped even in melee (unless they are doing something insane like herding Carnies) and you end up with Blasters being in far more danger in a ranged shootout than Scrappers are in a swordfight.
Try a simple test... make a Blaster with a couple of pool defenses like Hasten, Stealth (or Tough and Weave) and Hover. Also make a Scrapper with standard defenses (including a pool power or two). Have them both at the same level around level 35 to 40. Now have the Scrapper jump into a mid-sized group of +2 level enemies and aggro them... then time how long it takes them to kill him in melee (if they even can). Have the Blaster hover above an identical group and aggro THEM, and see how long HE lasts at range. After you do that a few times, you won't be saying Scrappers face more danger any longer...
And yes, Blasters can hit and run since they get to shoot from range. So what? Scrapers can do it too... just take Super Speed and run past an enemy with a queued attack. The plain fact is that most Blasters can be killed by 5 yellow minions at range faster than most Scrappers can be killed by 10 orange minions in melee. Some Scrappers can fight multiple +2 level BOSSES in melee safely. How many Blasters can do that, at range or otherwise?
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Greyhawke, my experience is not that blasters can easily pull aggro from me when I'm tanking. It may be that you're teaming with tankers who aren't that great with aggro control, or don't care that much about keeping aggro off blasters.
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blasters use their AoE they are generating aggro on targets that have no existing aggro on them, in this case you could drop the blaster aggro to 5% and it would be the same.
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I don't know about that, I can easily take aggro off a tank after the mob is completely aggroed on him.
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Greyhawke, my experience is not that blasters can easily pull aggro from me when I'm tanking. It may be that you're teaming with tankers who aren't that great with aggro control, or don't care that much about keeping aggro off blasters.
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Saddly, not many tanks are that good. With my tank, blasters almost never fell any heat, if ever, and they certainly don't take it from me, I hadn't gotten it yet. However, with my blaster, I can't always rely on tanks to be as good as mine is.
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blasters use their AoE they are generating aggro on targets that have no existing aggro on them, in this case you could drop the blaster aggro to 5% and it would be the same.
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I don't know about that, I can easily take aggro off a tank after the mob is completely aggroed on him.
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that might be saying more about the tank then yourself.
Some tanks rely solely on invincibility (or PBAoE power), some rely on punchvoke, some taunt, and some use a mixture of all three.
I can verify disco_'s claim. I've pulled aggro'ed off of a taunting tanker many times. Full auto and flame thrower seems to do it quite easily. This is even after the tanker has established aggro attraction. And these guys weren't novices either. Their taunts were well slotted.
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Try a simple test... make a Blaster with a couple of pool defenses like Hasten, Stealth (or Tough and Weave) and Hover. Also make a Scrapper with standard defenses (including a pool power or two). Have them both at the same level around level 35 to 40. Now have the Scrapper jump into a mid-sized group of +2 level enemies and aggro them... then time how long it takes them to kill him in melee (if they even can). Have the Blaster hover above an identical group and aggro THEM, and see how long HE lasts at range. After you do that a few times, you won't be saying Scrappers face more danger any longer...
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Depends on the scrapper, though. Some won't last a lot longer than blasters (although they will certainly last longer) in that situation.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Saddly, not many tanks are that good. With my tank, blasters almost never fell any heat, if ever, and they certainly don't take it from me, I hadn't gotten it yet. However, with my blaster, I can't always rely on tanks to be as good as mine is.
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I completely agree, which is why I still think blasters could use reduced aggro generation compared to other ATs and especially tankers. Naturally, blasters need more than that to be able to blast and thus use their powers without the constant risk of near-instant defeat.
To be honest, because of what I read in this forum about tanker-blaster aggro issues, I've tried to make sure it doesn't happen around me - Doc Spielmann's been able to safely use full auto around my tanker because of that, and I can hold aggro through nova.
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My two highest level blasters are a level 30 energy/energy and a level 16 AR/Electric. My level 30 is a blapper and my level 16 is a more "conventional" blaster.
The position that blasters don't need the higher damage cap because they are not in melee as much doesn't work too well for my level 30 blapper. Is the blapper minority sufficiently numerous to have any influence on the blaster damage question? In a duo I am most effective when teamed up with a bubbler. I am quite happy with the amount of damage I do, but if I get a buff I would not complain.
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I can verify disco_'s claim. I've pulled aggro'ed off of a taunting tanker many times. Full auto and flame thrower seems to do it quite easily. This is even after the tanker has established aggro attraction. And these guys weren't novices either. Their taunts were well slotted.
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I use icicles, chilling embrace, taunt, and punchvoke from six-slotted AoE and single target attacks, and Doc Spielmann tells me that she didn't typically peel aggro away from me. I think that again, this is a matter of the tanker more than the blaster powers. But again, I think it shouldn't be that risky for you to use your powers on a team.
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Thought I'd post a further explanation about the Blaster damage explanation in "Ask Statesman."
That was - and is - the reason why Blaster damage is capped lower than Scrappers. I did forget to add that the ranged attacks of mobs deal less damage (typically) than melee attacks - and the Blaster is generally the target of raned attacks.
But many issues have come up - most notably, the perception that Blasters are too fragile at levels 35+. Their damage potential does not compensate for their low hit points.
And, of course, there's the complaint that some Secondaries have too many melee attacks - something that the Blaster avoids at all costs.
At the moment, Scrappers, and to a lesser degree, Tankers, are being analyzed. Once we establish a baseline, then we'll be in a better position to look at Blasters.
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state's I'm disapointed man.
scraps obviously have what it takes to survive...even THRIVE In melee. blasters can't even stay upright at range. hell they can't even stay at range. your reasoning is way off here.
Honestly man I know you're busy... but do you guys PLAY this game at all?
Ok I haven't read ALL of this so I'll just post my suggestion, though I'm sure it is an impossibility due to coding. IF blasters must have NO defense, damage mitigiation, AND a lower damage cap than scrappers then how about we have some damage and accuracy increase based on range. For example: I, as an Ar/Dev blaster, choose to use Slug at optimal range of my target. My target, not dead obviously, runs toward me and is NOW within 20 feet. I use slug again and OBVIOUSLY at THIS range Slug WOULD do more damage and have better accuracy. Realistically if I take a shotgun and shoot someone from 50 feet away they COULD live. Put them 10 feet away and they're friggin dead. Now here's the kicker, which of course will never happen. If the target is in MELEE range we have 100% accuracy. WE WILL NOT MISS. ALSO our damage for said attack is increased to 150% of base, or whatever amount would be balanced. If this has been suggested then my apologies. THIS change, though most likely an impossibility, would at least be realistic. 
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Thought I'd post a further explanation about the Blaster damage explanation in "Ask Statesman."
That was - and is - the reason why Blaster damage is capped lower than Scrappers. I did forget to add that the ranged attacks of mobs deal less damage (typically) than melee attacks - and the Blaster is generally the target of raned attacks.
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As I mentioned in my PM, and my original response here this statement reflects the notion that scrappers should do more damage than blasters because they take more damage than blasters - and that is completely irrelevant to the issue of the damage cap. The damage cap does not limit blaster damage.
The damage cap does not limit blaster damage.
What it does is force blasters to output an even amount of damage over time, instead of being allowed to "burst" damage higher. There is no question that blasters can survive for less time against ranged opponents than scrappers can survive against melee opponents. This means time is more important to blasters than scrappers. A blaster doesn't have the option of shooting eight times more shots at a boss than a minion, because a blaster is not going to live that long. A blaster wants, and needs, to frontload damage to survive.
Build Up starts off as a great tool that doubles our damage for 10 seconds out of 90. Its superior to a power that would increase our damage by 11% all the time, even though our total damage output is exactly the same. By the time we are in our 40s, BU is now a power increasing our damage by about 38% one third of the time. Its net effect is about the same over time, but its less useful overall. Because the average doesn't matter, the burst damage does.
Some of us could compensate by stacking Aim on top of Build Up. Except that now runs us up against the cap, so we can't front load that way. A scalable build up would be superior both in balance and in effectiveness as a damage improvement for blasters, but not if the cap limits its effectiveness.
Bottom line, the cap has nothing whatsoever to do with blaster vs scrapper damage output. Its a statement on who should be able to have more control over their "burstyness." Scrappers need burst damage less than blasters, so a lower cap for blasters does not say "blasters should do less damage," it says "blasters should have less control over their damage output." If they need it more and they get it less, thats a statement about blasters that has nothing to do with damage output.
If you want scrappers to have higher damage than blasters, give them a higher base damage scale, and give us the same damage cap. They will still do more damage than blasters, but we would gain back the control over our damage that would help us more.
Base damage says who does more damage. The Cap says who has more control over their damage. Blasters should have more control. So they should have the higher cap.
Edit: minor but goofy typo edited
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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This saddens me and almost makes me want to stop playing my blaster....but two lvls and I will never have to play the horribly broken AT again. So the Scrappers get the crits and the 500% damage cap because they are the "boss killers" and they are the ones involved in melee? They are also involved in range too. How about we get rid of their ranged attacks? EPPs and Impale, throw spines, focus, shockwave, and whatever else the other melee types get. Also take away all of their defenses/resitances. Lower their hp, lower their damage cap, then it will be more dangerous for them to be in melee. Your reasoning makes now sense Statesman...some of this stuff makes me want to go play MMOs that my friends are playing. I love CoH but I don't feel like being laughed at when I Broadcast "lvl 48 energy blaster lft"
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Thought I'd post a further explanation about the Blaster damage explanation in "Ask Statesman."
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I apprecaite your effort in keeping us informed.
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That was - and is - the reason why Blaster damage is capped lower than Scrappers. I did forget to add that the ranged attacks of mobs deal less damage (typically) than melee attacks - and the Blaster is generally the target of raned attacks.
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I don't quite see the reasonong here. We have been told that the Scrapper gets better Defence because of the higher risk involved in melee. How does the higher risk warrant more damage as well? It would seem to me that thay are being overly compensated for the "risk of melee" . The defences makes sence but the damage doesn't.
The scrapper description states that they are supposed to have defences almost as good as the tanker and offenses almost as good as the blaster (paraphrased here). As it stands they are barely below a Tanked defences and potentially better than a blaster in offence.
Also the ability to pick a target at range doesn't seem like such a great advantage. I have scrapper characters and they waste very very little time in movement during fights. I can still basically pick my target and they others usually come to me rather than me needing to move to them. Also some scrapper sets have a good selection of ranged/AoE attacks.
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But many issues have come up - most notably, the perception that Blasters are too fragile at levels 35+. Their damage potential does not compensate for their low hit points.
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Yes this is true, for several reasons. Most notably, the damage of range attacks seems to get moch closer to their melee counterparts the higher in level you go. Secondly, practically all enemies have the nice damage ranged attacks. Finally, they have better range than the blaster, especially at the high end game.
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And, of course, there's the complaint that some Secondaries have too many melee attacks - something that the Blaster avoids at all costs.
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Your statement about blasters and range would seem to validate these complaints. Don't get me wrong, I agree that their are way to many melee attacks in the ranged damage AT's secondaries, which are supposed to be support not melee. A few attacke (two or Three at the most) is fine but more than half is really uncalled for IMHO.
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At the moment, Scrappers, and to a lesser degree, Tankers, are being analyzed. Once we establish a baseline, then we'll be in a better position to look at Blasters.
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I agree, the arena testing is definatly showing the desparigy between the melee and the squishy AT's. The tanker and scrapper do need to be brough into the scope of the non-melee AT's, but the problem is that we keep beiong told "We'll take a look butit will have to wait for...". First is was after Controllers. Now it's after Contrlooers, Tankers and Scrappers. One omre, Defenders, and were right back to pre-issue 1 waiting list. At this rate it would seem that we will be waiting another 3 to 4 issues to "Be looked at..." I'm sure you can see how dis-heartening this is to the Blaster community.
I have been, and will continue to be, a staunch supporter of the Devs, you guys are amazing, but it doesn't stop me from feeling let down by all this.
Thanks for your time.
Be a hero!!
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I use icicles, chilling embrace, taunt, and punchvoke from six-slotted AoE and single target attacks, and Doc Spielmann tells me that she didn't typically peel aggro away from me. I think that again, this is a matter of the tanker more than the blaster powers. But again, I think it shouldn't be that risky for you to use your powers on a team.
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On the Tf I mentioned, my tank buddy had Invincibility, Taunt, Provoke, and his punchvoke going. The Stone tank had mudpots, taunt, and whatever he had slotted into his melee attacks and they were still unable to keep the blasters standing. All they had was their Energy Torrents and one had Explosive blast....not enough damage there to warrant causing the tanks to lose aggro.
I also think something has to be said for hero synergy and player familiarity. When I play my Eng/Eng blaster with my tank buddy I never die becuase (1)We have been duoing since beta and have had our style down for a year now, and (2)we sit almost five feet away from each other when we play and when I start taking damage he knows about it a half second later. Many blaster players are not as lucky as I.
Blasters solo well enough because at least we know where all the aggro is generated from and we can deal with it on our own terms. In a group, while we must have faith that the tanks can hold the aggro, the common experience is that we will catch fire and earn a faceplant. So we take matters into our own hands and get accused of having a solo mentality in a group, or we limit our damage output to a point where we cease to make an equal contribution and just end up leeching.
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Would anyone be up to giving up melee powers for status protection. Maybe nothing as huge as the Melee protection, but something to prevent the occasional mez attack.
I would not mind it, but I know some people love the melee attacks.
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I'm all for it, but I think I've made my feelings on the excess melee quite clear in this and other threads.
Be a hero!!
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Would anyone be up to giving up melee powers for status protection. Maybe nothing as huge as the Melee protection, but something to prevent the occasional mez attack.
I would not mind it, but I know some people love the melee attacks.
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I'm all for it, but I think I've made my feelings on the excess melee quite clear in this and other threads.
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I love bonesmasher and Total Focus too much though. power thrust and energy punch they can take away. 
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How about losing Power Thrust, Stun, and Boost Range from the /Energy powerset and adding things that help more than a few power sets....maybe put some form defenses there. I like Energy Punch/Bonesmasher/Total Focus, but the three I mentioned are situational at best.(yeay yeah, some people use them, but most that I have seen have no use for them besides punching people 200 feet for fun at lvl 50)
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No Power Thrust is the best of the /Energy Melee. Why? Because it's designed to turn a melee situation into a ranged situation, therefor enforcing the range is our friend concept.
Boost range would help EVERY primary. One of the big complaints I see all over is that blasters don't have enough range. This power actually allows us to outrange some of the villains. Not to mention that unlike the melee attacks it is actually a SUPPORT power.
IMHO, keep power Thrust and Bonesmasher, kill off the other three and give more support powers. If you must keep another melee then keep Stun. Energy Punch doesn't do enough, with stun you get a better chance to disorient and therefore survival is improved.
I know I'll catch alot of flack for saying to off Total Focus. This is a great power, but I feel that the final power in a support powerset should be th ultimate in support not the ultimate in melee. Move Power Boost to the final position and up the durration and mabye increase the % boost. Allow it to boost Damage and/or Aim; whatever the Devs would choose to make it more powerful for the elevation to the tier 9 power. An option to removing TF could be put it as the tier 7 power and lower it some, then remove Stun instead of TF.
Be a hero!!
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Would anyone be up to giving up melee powers for status protection. Maybe nothing as huge as the Melee protection, but something to prevent the occasional mez attack.
I would not mind it, but I know some people love the melee attacks.
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I'm all for it, but I think I've made my feelings on the excess melee quite clear in this and other threads.
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Or they couldn't add some status defense to powers like build-up instead of getting rid of melee attacks to offer it.
Why should we get special treatment...because otherwise we're a one trick pony, damage. Every other AT can do exactly what we can do and with less risk in most cases. Why not give something unique to the Blaster? Defenders can blast and heal themselves and debuff/buff, controllers can debuff and buff and heal plus in some of the sets (ILL & Fire) dish out major damage, tankers can stand there and withstand damage until the cows come home and can knock out badguys at their whim, and scrappers dish it out and can take it with little risk in most cases (AV's aside). What's so wrong in giving something unique to the Blaster, other than the chorus of "ME TOOS!!" that's bound to follow from the rest of the AT's.
It's adding one small resistance to an otherwise defenseless class, we still get our butts shot off it just means we can actually fight back for once instead of sleeping during a fight.