Need more varied/better missions
By
Blitz_Mayhem,
Posted on: 2005-04-12 05:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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no scratch that, only one task force, the Hess TF, rest of 'em are just more of the same missions.
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I would have to add the Eden trial and Respec trial to that short list. it's a toss up, but I really think the Eden trial might be better than Hess.
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I don't want to read a text about that, I want to see that.
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this I agree wholeheartedly with. 2 lines of interesting text don't make up for the monotony of Yet Another Kill All Mission. some people dont even know HOW to read the mission text if they're not the mission holder... this is a hole in the system.
for the Hess TF I took it upon myself to narrate to the rest of the team what the story behind each mission was. it DRAMATICALLY added to the coolness of an already cool TF for the rest of the players.
the mission text should pop up for all players when you enter the mission, instead of the one line "you hear clanking in the distance" kind of thing you normally get.
But better than all of that would be to SEE the enemies doing whatever you're supposed to be stopping.
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I admit I dont know that much technical stuff, but I was wondering why they dont make every mission at least have those great shadow lighting effects like some of the new freakshow missions?? It adds such great atmosphere.
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Or my personal favorite - when the pop up mission description box that opens when you enter a mission has a description that doesn't match the map you are in.
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Every issue we add new mission tech as well as new art. We aren't planning on changing that anytime soon!
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Could you please give some hints as to what new mission tech has been included in issue 4? I'd love to test it...
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I did read about the new Kheldian story arcs having something new in them, was that all that was done in Issue 4 as far as new mission stuff is concerned (not asking in disappointment but rather plain curiousity), or were more things added that we just haven't discovered yet?
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Just new Kheldian missions in I4...
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I can't emotionally connect with a story if I can't connect the story with a legit place and a legit event. The random location and random map generation forces me to recall the map layout I've seen hundreds of times, across hundreds of stories. In effect, you're not allowing players to participate in a story
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You are a 100% correct. We need to find a way to communicate the story better to the players (not just the mission holder).
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You are a 100% correct. We need to find a way to communicate the story better to the players (not just the mission holder).
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Well, here's one idea! 
How about more villian base maps? The council/column map is a great start, but we need more. For example, it's kinda hard believing the story that says Nemesis hates using computers, while we constantly get sent to the tech lab map for his bases.
Odd... I could have sworn there was a two week age limit on old posts before they were deleted... yet the thread I started 10 days ago is gone. And that's not even taking into consideration the few replies made. I should still have it in .doc format, so I'll see if I can't repost it and link it up for you.
As far as the new tech in I4 is concerned, I think the Kheldian missions have a Nictus Portal similar to the CoT portal that you have to destroy while it spews out lobsters and squids.
This is just from what someone told me, not from personal experience.
I just want to second all of this. I just did the DE mission where they gas the building and there's a green glow everywhere and water pouring in the center. The effect on immersion when the mission actually looks like the description is excellent. When deciding what to upgrade, I would encourage the devs that new mission art gives the most improvement per effort of anything they could do on the game.
I'd wait a year for new zones if it meant all the currently existing missions would be unique.
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I can't emotionally connect with a story if I can't connect the story with a legit place and a legit event. The random location and random map generation forces me to recall the map layout I've seen hundreds of times, across hundreds of stories. In effect, you're not allowing players to participate in a story
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You are a 100% correct. We need to find a way to communicate the story better to the players (not just the mission holder).
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We chatted about this at WonderCon, remember? What about my idea for long-term teams that share content and auto-join when they log in as long as they're teamed?
John_Roy wrote:
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I'd wait a year for new zones if it meant all the currently existing missions would be unique.
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I'd like to second this idea.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
Wow, first Statesman responds to my topic and then directly to my post, and without being vague. I'm on a roll! 
You think if I ask him when I5 comes out he'll give a date? ...
Yeah, you're right - dream on sucker!
Anyway, all this talk about trying to make missions more unique gave me an idea. Ideally of course, every mission will have a completely unique map but that's not realistically possible. However, an article I read on GameSpy gave me an idea - what if there was a way to involve players in the making of at least some parts of the game... (btw, if you haven't read that article, you really should)
If I were a crazy person, which I'm not... no George I'm not! Now, get off my shoulder and take yer lucky charms with you!... so, as I was saying, if I were raving mad I would suggest that Cryptic hold a monthly "contest" in which players get to submit art in different categories, and the few selected things get added to the game.
The submissions would have to be things easily importable of course, with categories like:
Architecture - models of buildings/towers/skyscrapers
Mission Comic Pages - as per the idea suggested above
New Enemies - a textured model and some basic (or maybe even all) animations
Music - new pieces of soundtrack for city zones
Stories - new stories for story arcs, single missions or even Task Forces
etc.
Of course all art will have to be subject to strict rules so as to minimize the hastle of importing it into the game, and there would be a "license" agreement that basically says "you agree to submit this piece of art, that would potentially increase Cryptic's profits, but the only thing you get for it is credit and you will not see one cent of that profit" - despite all that I think that people will still submit tons of stuff. I know I would but nobody would take it
So let's say for the first 2 weeks of each month the submissions are accepted, the next two weeks they are evaluated, selected, and then the winners are displayed on the website. Then the developers, use their own discretion to decide when and where to use these things, and how to incorporate them into the game.
This what I would suggest if I were one card short of a full pack, but since I have a full house, ignore the last four paragraphs... move along, nothing to see here...
They seem to be doing this at least in part. The newest contest is for music. You don't think theres a good chance we'll end up with winning submissions on our boomboxes or hear them as we travel around town?
Enjoying every AT in the game.
Remember the Golden Rule: Skill > Build
Leader of the True Blues on Liberty
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I can't emotionally connect with a story if I can't connect the story with a legit place and a legit event. The random location and random map generation forces me to recall the map layout I've seen hundreds of times, across hundreds of stories. In effect, you're not allowing players to participate in a story
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You are a 100% correct. We need to find a way to communicate the story better to the players (not just the mission holder).
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It would be nice to be able to view the clues for the mission you are on. I would also like to be able to right click a mission to bring up a description (the one you see when selecting the mission).
Thank you.
I think part of the problem is that the Mob AI is just so predictable. You grab a mission and read the mission text. You travel there and walk into the mission. Groups of mobs stand there, may or may not say things, a few may wander a bit, and they aggro if you get too close.
Other groups of mobs wander around (in-mission ambushes) and have instant aggro on your group. These are a good step toward making them more exciting.
Eventually you get to the end of a mission where there usually some named boss of some kind, who says something clever, and battles like the boss type they are.
All mobs behave in a certain way. Once someone has aggro (player was spotted, got taunted, etc), they attack usually with a ranged attack, then may or may not close to melee range. If they lose sight of a player, their aggro level drops somewhat. If they have enough aggro remaining, they will close on a player by the shortest path possible to reestablish line of sight to attack. Like idiots, they bunch up and get tore apart by AoEs, group debuffs, mass holds, etc.
I've occasionally seen ones that will run a few steps to get back to ranged attacks (coucil boss robots tend to do this), but not very many and not very often.
How about this:
1) Make them a little smarter where they use tactics (hide around corners, run and get help if needed, things like this) -- especially at higher levels where mobs should be more experienced.
2) Make bosses more unique. Instead of using a named Madness Mage for a boss, try bosses that have different powersets. You really wouldn't know what a particular named boss uses unless you had fought them before. Tsoo bosses are somewhat like this already, they have a lot of varieties with varying powers, but are still somewhat predictable.
Maybe a pair of bosses or AVs that act as a team, like an empath AV buffing and healing a scrapper AV. Even an AV that can summon a number of bosses at some timed interval or health point. Trip wires that cause an ambush if you set them off (invisible unless you have a perception buff). A named council boss that suddenly and unexpectedly whips out radiation infection.
Basically give the villains and missions some personality. The last mission in Freakalympics is suddenly very popular, because the mission is unique now, and more things down that direction I think would help.
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They seem to be doing this at least in part. The newest contest is for music. You don't think theres a good chance we'll end up with winning submissions on our boomboxes or hear them as we travel around town?
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It would be a nice surprise but AFAIK it hasn't been officially stated, so it's up in the air.
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You are a 100% correct. We need to find a way to communicate the story better to the players (not just the mission holder).
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This sounds an awful lot like one of Statesman's subtle teasers.
I may be wrong, but he does crap like that all the time.
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Every issue we add new mission tech as well as new art. We aren't planning on changing that anytime soon!
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The problem is that you don't *use* the new stuff enough.
After Issue 2 added new tilesets, I started a new character. I got a mission that said the Hellions were in an abandoned office building. Great! That's one of the new ones!
Nope. Same old abandonded office building that I'd already seen many dozens of times with my main character. Even though the mission description perfectly matched the new tileset, it wasn't used.
Through the life of the new character I got 4 hellions missions set in an abandoned office. Only 1 of the four used the new tileset. This is *mindnumbing*. I've seen the same office and warehouse so many times I can't stand them anymore.
I know you want each mission to eventually have its own art. Until then, please spread around the new ones. If you make *every* hellions mission in an abdoned office use the new set, and *every* freakshow mission in a warehouse they've taken over use their new set, that would be a massive imporvement. You can still go back later and change some of those missions if you add another new tileset.
For only a little more work (reletive to making completely new tilesets) you could massively reduce the monotony of the game.
Another thing you could do is add more general tilesets. Instead of adding a very specific tileset to the next update (like the "tunnels" that mainly work in the Hollows), add another super-generic tileset. Like another office. Add a different office and then make half the offices in the game use that set instead of the old one. That alone would be a gigantic improvement.
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I can't emotionally connect with a story if I can't connect the story with a legit place and a legit event. The random location and random map generation forces me to recall the map layout I've seen hundreds of times, across hundreds of stories. In effect, you're not allowing players to participate in a story
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You are a 100% correct. We need to find a way to communicate the story better to the players (not just the mission holder).
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Random maps are even ok if they have even ONE unique feature that sets them apart. Interactivity helps a lot. I still remember the ice slide map of the fire/ice boss from the Outcasts..the first time I encountered ice. Of course I can't remember the story so maybe it didn't leave that much impression. I remember the clockwork king story though At those low clockwork king levels I was more emotionally involved since tactics like getting behind cover etc. actually mattered and I saw unique things for the first time (the first time I saw a prince break into gears after calling out the hero's name that owned the mission was awesome.)
Unfortunately most enemies now are a featureless blur of field mice under the lawnmowers of my characters. I blame this in part on the very homogenous AI.
I still don't know Hamidon's story after being on 15 raids. Too bad, I heard it was kind of cool. There is no incentive for me to go do those missions though, and if I was experiencing that story arc, I might miss a Hami raid and actually be *penalized* for seeing some story.
Just a big blob that drops treasure, and I'll bet I'm not the only one that thinks of him that way. Maybe it should talk or say something as it's being killed as a teaser at least...
I've been thinking over the issue with new mission types, and i cannot help but think that this would be a very efficient tool in your quest for balancing ATs. Instead of (or in conjunction with) changing the powersets, wouldn't it be great if the "balance" depended on mission type instead of powersets.
For example, a scrapper might have a natural advantage when the goal of the mission is to beat up the bad guys, but what if there was a mission where stealth or detention is of the utmost importance and you get bonus exp for completion of the mission if you do not "arrest/kill/whatever" the bad guys?
I think missions such as that would add some nice flavor
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Just new Kheldian missions in I4...
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Which MANY players are reporting they can't access. I've tried all my characters and created brand new ones and can't get anything out of these guys.
According to several players, you can't get these if you are already on a story arc. Not only that, you can't get them if you have been offered the start of a story arc and didn't take it. That is not the only bug in it, though, as I created a new character to test this. He did no missions other than his first contacts, which he completed. Never talked to his next offered contact but still couldn't get a Kheldian mission.
Scorus
Then you are just bugged. I have had no problems getting the new story arcs from Shadowstar or Sunstorm.
Do this on live. Get your Khelidan to level five and copy him over.
I have more than my share of alts, the highest being in the early 40's, the others ranging from the teens into the 30's.
I dont powerlvl at all nor do I street hunt much, I mostly do missions. So I've done a lot of the same missions, over and over.
I've noticed some of the early ones have been tweaked--better maps, new features. The clockwork box of parts that spewed endless gears surprised the hell out of my latest alt. Its great that these missions are improved upon, and not left static.
That said..what I'd love to see, is more...villain specialization, for lack of a better term. Where a hero can choose to specialize one one group of specific viallins, unravelling more and more of that groups plots and backstory, leading to a final, satisfying confrontation.
Perfect example is the Crey.
(My apologies for the spoilers, but I have to outline this to make my point.)
Your hero starts out just sniffing around the corporate giant, uncovering more and more of its dark side. Eventually you start to dig up dirt on the Countess herself.
Then, it turns personal. The Crey frame you, make you a wanted felon. (I actually kind of wish that other players could attack you at that point, try to bring you in. Story-wise it would make much more sense and make the end more satisfying, but I can see where that would also make it too hard, or, invite griefing.) The pressure is upped a few notches.
A few missions later, you are bringing down the Corporation, and arresting the Countess herself.
Beginning, middle, satisfying end, and, a 'personal' stake put in it as a result of the storytelling. THE most fun villain story arc I have seen in this game yet.
Some of the others have similar arcs...the Vahz, for example, have a beginning, middle, and a fight with the good doctor himself. Nemesis is another.
But not all villain groups have a long, complete story arc. The Tsoo, Family, and Sky Raiders, for example, have a few, apparently unconnected arcs. And when your character outlevels them, thats it, no more. No conclusion, and you dont see them again unless your high lvl char wants to squish some in the street for fun.
This is such a waste... I would love to take one of my chars, and specialize in, lets say the Tsoo. I choose contacts who give only Tsoo related missions, who, in turn, introduce other Tsoo contacts with more misisons. The arcs correspond with my level and are playable until I reach the end of the Tsoo storyline and fight its boss AV--no more outleveling a villain group you love to fight! Your character becomes that villain group's most feared adversary.
A beginning, middle, and end of a storyline, plus personal involvement with a bunch of bad guys you love to hate. This is what makes a fun storyarch.
This would also have the side effect of making each players experience unique. As is, most of us do or have done the same misisons, as all of our contacts have them. By letting players specialize, player A, who concentrated on the Tsoo, has a totally different play experience than player B, who preferred fighting the Sky Raiders. And when they team, and alternate each other's missions, players A and B both get to experience something totally new.
Players would also start new alts, just to specialize in a different villain group and get a whole new storyarch and game experience. And when that arch ends, they move on to another villain group of their choosing, one of the higher lvl ones, appropriate to their exp level.
Long post. I get carried away a bit. I love this game, you see, and see so much potential in it.
What do you think?
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This is such a waste... I would love to take one of my chars, and specialize in, lets say the Tsoo. I choose contacts who give only Tsoo related missions, who, in turn, introduce other Tsoo contacts with more misisons. The arcs correspond with my level and are playable until I reach the end of the Tsoo storyline and fight its boss AV--no more outleveling a villain group you love to fight! Your character becomes that villain group's most feared adversary.
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While I don;t think it would be possible to set up a system like that now, it is a cool idea. What I would like to see is just half of that...ALL AVsin game! I have a character who is in Paragon City as a hero just to kill Tub Ci...and there's no Tub Ci to fight.
I know that these things take time, but it would be so nice if all the villian groups had at least one storyarc where you "took them down bigtime" and arrested either the AV or an "almost AV" like Frostfire and Atta.
I admit I dont know that much technical stuff, but I was wondering why they dont make every mission at least have those great shadow lighting effects like some of the new freakshow missions?? It adds such great atmosphere.