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I think all this effort into curbing powerlevelers is a waste of resources. Plvlers will find out how to do whatever they want with the tools at hand. This hampers a few plvling techniques, but exacts a tangible cost to players in terms of freedom to play how they want. Overall, I don't think this will have any real effect on plvling. They'll go do their outdoor mission maps, and players doing content will have to do their "Kill 150 Crey" hunt missions in a big group because you wanted to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
I don't buy the plvling hurts the game argument because what it really comes down to is "Is the content interesting enough to curb Plvling?" For a lot of players it is. For some players, it doesn't matter, they'll always plvl. For some, they have half a dozen toons over lvl 40, and they've done every mission, badge, story arc, TF, trial, etc. 3-4 times, and they just want to play with a new AT/build.
You're trying to tell people how to play the game, even though they're playing well within the confines of your world. If its not griefing, and doesn't violate the CoC/ToS, either leave it alone, or make it an exploit. To me, tram plvlers are like RP'ers in Galaxy. Its not how I chose to play the game, but it doesn't bother me one bit. Some people are going to do only missions for their xp (until mid 30's when you start running out) because it makes them feel heroic. Some are gonna roll up a Taxi Bot and recall people all day. Some will host a play in Perez Park, and some will sit all day while getting plvled by a friend or 2nd account.
Lastly, a quick question: How does this effect badge credit? I NEVER do hunt badges within 300 yds of my teammates, often a mile or more away. Like many players, I've put a lot of time into collecting my hunt badges, solo and in teams. I currently have all of them (except for isolator, which I did not have the option of getting). If I had to stay close to teamates to get badge credit however, I definitely wouldn't have bothered with many of them.
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I totally agree
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Yeah, it's not like we need a skills system or anything.
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AGREE ON THIS TOTALLY
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yeap. right on man
(H)Dark/Rad, Rad/Psi, Spine/Regen, Ice/EM, Psi/EM, Earth/FF,
(V)EM/NIN, Bots/FF, Fire/Rad,Fire/Fire, Earth/Fire, Grav/Energy
@Angus.Black
If this is all to stop or curb PL'ing I can see may better ways to do it.
For example:
You can not receive XP if your combat level excedds your security level by X(2-3) levels.(Excess to debt and inf just like rsk) And when you train you have to visit an level approiate trainer.
1-5 Ms liberty or brawler(atlas or galaxy)
5-10 you can also visit the trainer in Kings.
10-15 add the trainers in steel and skyway
you get the idea.
How will this curb PL'ing?
The annoyance factor. PL'ing works becasue you can rack up multiple levels and then train them all at once and the higher level's don't have to go out of their way to let this happen. If you keep having to escort your SK back to atlas from tallos it will get annoying. I think this would provide a deterent.
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I like the idea that, instead of a death timer, all xp gained while dead goes only to debt.
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This is a fantastic idea. (Anything that is left over can be converted to Influence, but it's very, very rare that you'd work off your debt in its entirety while dead.)
If you're dead, you can still get some debt worked off while you're lying there waiting for your rez (which can easily be several minutes, especially if most of the team has wiped and there's a wait for rez recharge, or, in lower levels with no travel powers in the Hollows, for someone to make the long trip to Atlas hospital, and come back with a bunch of Awakens).
If XP earned while dead only goes to debt, then it can't be used for "drag around a corpse to power-level it". Yes, you could drag a corpse around to help the guy clear off debt, but "dying in order to clear debt faster" is only going to be popular with those who have capped debt.
This is a nice solution that doesn't hurt or inconvenience legitimate players, while still removing a potential exploit.
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You can not receive XP if your combat level excedds your security level by X(2-3) levels.(Excess to debt and inf just like rsk) And when you train you have to visit an level approiate trainer.
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Why couldn't I think of a cool idea like this?
No normal player will ever not train for 3 levels.
The only thing that concerns me is that this might not be annoying enough to affect PLing ...but on the plus side, it has absolutely no effect on most players.
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
While I understand your reasining for changes to stop Power Levelers, I feel these changes harm the game. As a defender, I mainly heal and buff my team, but now becouse I do not do Damage, I will no longer recieve XP?? If im on a team of Hot dogs who run off at a distance, again Ill recieve no XP?
These changes in my opinion, discourage team play, as now you have better odds of gettin XP if you solo, since there are so many instances now of losing out.
It amazes me, that instead of concentrating more on game content, you spend most of your time trying to discourage Power Levelers. I care about enjoying the game, I dont care how someone else got Their levels, they wanna Power Level and bypass, all the fun content you have added, let em, BIG DEAL. I wish you would put this much effort into discouraging all the Griefers. Like for instance, we had a Goon Squader totally harass a server wide Costume Contest being held, Most in attendence sent you a petition of it, Did you do anything, Hell NO. Another instance (once again a Goon Squad) in a Hamidon Raid, at begining of the raid he dives into Hamidongets off 1 shot at damaging him and dies, he layed there dead for the 2 hours we spent fighting Hamidon, and he gets a Hami-O. Once again we sent petitions, and did you do anything?? Hell NO !! Becouse in your eyes, Power Leveling is BAD, but griefing is Fine. Well power levelers dont screw my game, Griefers do. So Id love to see you put some energy into REAL problems. Like heres a suggestion to solving the Hami problem, If your Dead for 5 minutes, you are auto sent back to a hospital.
So start concentraiting on real game problems, cause a PLr doesnt harm the game, they only harm themselves by passin up game content.
Victory Server
Justice International::: Leader
Shadow Raiders:: Leader
www.cityofgamers.net
Well I'm not a huge fan of level approprate trainers.
1. At high level you still get missions in lower level zones and now have to haul tail out of a zone and make your team wait while you train in "your" zone.
2. During a TF you generally level at least once and maybe twice. That means a ton of down time as players shoot off to "their" zones to train between missions when now you can usually just stop by a nearby train on route to the next mission. TFs are long enough already lets avoid adding to that.
3. When I hit level 50 I wanted to come back were it all started for me that was Atlas. I came back to be trained by the Lady herself because she had trained me to 2 and well it just seemed so right she be the one to take me to 50.
As for multiple levels I guess I can live with that though at low level 1-12 I generally don't bother training at my odd levels since I usually can't afford enahncements or if I can I'm saving up for DOs. But I can see not allowing you to build up more then say 2. That would be fine.
I think you missunderstood my idea on training.
Let me rephrase it.
lvl 1-5 - atlas or galaxy
lvl 1-15 - atlas, galaxy and now KR
lvl 1 - 20 Atlas, Galaxy, KR, sky, steel
lvl 1-25 Atlas, Galaxy, KR, sky, steel, talos, IP
get the idea?
Thanks. Yup that works better. Sorry thought you had level specific and if you didn't fall in a 5 level range you had to move on. Thanks for clearing that up for the blind man here.
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If this is all to stop or curb PL'ing I can see may better ways to do it.
For example:
You can not receive XP if your combat level excedds your security level by X(2-3) levels.(Excess to debt and inf just like rsk) And when you train you have to visit an level approiate trainer.
1-5 Ms liberty or brawler(atlas or galaxy)
5-10 you can also visit the trainer in Kings.
10-15 add the trainers in steel and skyway
you get the idea.
How will this curb PL'ing?
The annoyance factor. PL'ing works becasue you can rack up multiple levels and then train them all at once and the higher level's don't have to go out of their way to let this happen. If you keep having to escort your SK back to atlas from tallos it will get annoying. I think this would provide a deterent.
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Genius, what a great idea, I give you the gift of stars!!!!
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
Healers still get XP if they can see the thing that the people they're supposedly healing are killing...
The 300' rule will deter many PLers... it means your lowbie will have to be in the instanced mission in order to PL... that's an annoyance factor for most people... if you REALLY want to lowbie, you can keep your PLer in relative safety, somewhere around the max distance...
If you guys understand the rules (which, according to the last few pages, few people do) then you'll know it doesn't hurt anybody... big groups STILL can do kill 150 missions seperate and get the badge, I just don't get XP for your kills in Atlas while im in KR... no harm done... and the death timer is still mutable... it can be altered to a fitting length...
Again, I feel it WILL deter many PLers except the most dedicated, in which case, they're always going to PL, so they aren't to be considered... casual PLers will think twice before running around in range of stuff that's 10+ levels higher than them...
It's a great solution, and I don't think it'll affect most people... I personally always felt weird when I was going to my contact and my buddies were racking up XP for me and I wasn't doing diddly for them... it didn't make much sense to me...
Okay, there will always be a way to power level. The main issue I think is the amount of begging which bothers people. Say the devs now make all higher level missions time. Or even better yet put in there is only x amount of times a person can run one mission. Then the bots will come out. People are always going to do something to get around doing the work for the reward. I personally love herding. I try not to invite any beggers into the team. I do not use fillers if I can help it. I have played the game from story arc to story arch. I have characters who take on the purple bosses solo, which are 5 levels over the character. Personally I like the game the way it is. Heck I stopped playing diablo 2 because of all the changes to the game which would make a character unplayable. COH at least gives you a respec on major changes. I think the main issue is people begging to Power level. I am all for taking out any begging and greifing in the game. Why not work more on taking out greifing at a Hami Raid.
People who want to Power level others should be allowed. People who beg and annoy for power leveling should be banned. I think that is the solution everyone would agree on. Most people do not care what player x is doing most of the time as long as he/she is not being annoyed by the person.
How to catch the people who are begging, just put a level 50 fire/fire tanker in PI, devs can put the person at top of punisher list and watch the tells of begging and start banning. I was a level 48 having people ask me to help get them the last few bars til 50. If a player can not play the last few bars to 50, the person should just not play the game. By the way the character is a fire/ice epic earth which herded from level 29 up til 50. So I was on the punisher list a decent amount. I recieved tells way to much from people much higher level wanting to get Power leveled. That is about the only annoying thing about power leveling and is all I would consider needing solved. Also watch the broadcast in PI and message and warn the person then ban if warning does not work.
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If this is all to stop or curb PL'ing I can see may better ways to do it.
For example:
You can not receive XP if your combat level excedds your security level by X(2-3) levels.(Excess to debt and inf just like rsk) And when you train you have to visit an level approiate trainer.
1-5 Ms liberty or brawler(atlas or galaxy)
5-10 you can also visit the trainer in Kings.
10-15 add the trainers in steel and skyway
you get the idea.
How will this curb PL'ing?
The annoyance factor. PL'ing works becasue you can rack up multiple levels and then train them all at once and the higher level's don't have to go out of their way to let this happen. If you keep having to escort your SK back to atlas from tallos it will get annoying. I think this would provide a deterent.
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Genius, what a great idea, I give you the gift of stars!!!!
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I fail to see how this idea is superior at all. It certainly overlooks minor PLing (most PLing isn't from 1-30, I assume) and makes assumptions (don't we all) about what the major concerns with PLing are and certainly doesn't provide any deterrent to PLing by friends (recall friend, fly, recall friend, another three levels... no problem)... by the time they're at 14 they can fly themselves...
Also, I LIKE levelling up 2 and three and four times at once... especially if I'm just choosing enhancements, I usually dont' even go to the trainer, especially if I'm making good XP on missions... this penalizes me for absolutely NO reason and with NO logic...
On the other hand, for those who understand the rules, the XP Range punishes NO one but the person who is far away and lending nothing towards combat, and then it ONLY keeps XP away... not counters towards badges or missions or any such thing... ALL team members get credit for the defeat, just without XP or influence... which honestly makes sense, how am I getting rewarded when all I'm not fighting or even watching the fight?
The ONLY legitimate concern I've seen is that you get less XP than soloing if your team is out of range. The "it won't deter PLers" is illogical, it makes PLing more dangerous, of course it deters PLers...
And those who choose not to "buy" that PLing harms the game, well, I choose not to "buy" that you exist or I choose not to "buy" that you play CoH or any other lack of belief that has no affect on reality whatsoever.
And one more 'flamish' comment:
"Don't tell me how to play the game--If I want to be a tank mage, I should be able to! I pay 15 buck a month, dangit!"
That's all... happy gaming...
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You can not receive XP if your combat level excedds your security level by X(2-3) levels.(Excess to debt and inf just like rsk) And when you train you have to visit an level approiate trainer.
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Why couldn't I think of a cool idea like this?
No normal player will ever not train for 3 levels.
The only thing that concerns me is that this might not be annoying enough to affect PLing ...but on the plus side, it has absolutely no effect on most players.
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Well worth considering.
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If this is all to stop or curb PL'ing I can see may better ways to do it.
For example:
You can not receive XP if your combat level excedds your security level by X(2-3) levels.(Excess to debt and inf just like rsk) And when you train you have to visit an level approiate trainer.
1-5 Ms liberty or brawler(atlas or galaxy)
5-10 you can also visit the trainer in Kings.
10-15 add the trainers in steel and skyway
you get the idea.
How will this curb PL'ing?
The annoyance factor. PL'ing works becasue you can rack up multiple levels and then train them all at once and the higher level's don't have to go out of their way to let this happen. If you keep having to escort your SK back to atlas from tallos it will get annoying. I think this would provide a deterent.
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Genius, what a great idea, I give you the gift of stars!!!!
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I fail to see how this idea is superior at all. It certainly overlooks minor PLing (most PLing isn't from 1-30, I assume) and makes assumptions (don't we all) about what the major concerns with PLing are and certainly doesn't provide any deterrent to PLing by friends (recall friend, fly, recall friend, another three levels... no problem)... by the time they're at 14 they can fly themselves...
Also, I LIKE levelling up 2 and three and four times at once... especially if I'm just choosing enhancements, I usually dont' even go to the trainer, especially if I'm making good XP on missions... this penalizes me for absolutely NO reason and with NO logic...
On the other hand, for those who understand the rules, the XP Range punishes NO one but the person who is far away and lending nothing towards combat, and then it ONLY keeps XP away... not counters towards badges or missions or any such thing... ALL team members get credit for the defeat, just without XP or influence... which honestly makes sense, how am I getting rewarded when all I'm not fighting or even watching the fight?
The ONLY legitimate concern I've seen is that you get less XP than soloing if your team is out of range. The "it won't deter PLers" is illogical, it makes PLing more dangerous, of course it deters PLers...
And those who choose not to "buy" that PLing harms the game, well, I choose not to "buy" that you exist or I choose not to "buy" that you play CoH or any other lack of belief that has no affect on reality whatsoever.
And one more 'flamish' comment:
"Don't tell me how to play the game--If I want to be a tank mage, I should be able to! I pay 15 buck a month, dangit!"
That's all... happy gaming...
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You need more fiber in your diet.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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3. When I hit level 50 I wanted to come back were it all started for me that was Atlas. I came back to be trained by the Lady herself because she had trained me to 2 and well it just seemed so right she be the one to take me to 50.
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Gee, and I thought I was odd doing this. (Only it was the Brawler for me!)
Anyway, maybe training could be like contacts and stores: Once you have them as a trainer you can always go back.
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3. When I hit level 50 I wanted to come back were it all started for me that was Atlas. I came back to be trained by the Lady herself because she had trained me to 2 and well it just seemed so right she be the one to take me to 50.
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Gee, and I thought I was odd doing this. (Only it was the Brawler for me!)
Anyway, maybe training could be like contacts and stores: Once you have them as a trainer you can always go back.
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That's what the proposer was suggesting. A high level player can train on his level appropriate trainer or any trainer BELOW his level, but a lowbie can't train up on a high-level trainer.
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I think all this effort into curbing powerlevelers is a waste of resources. Plvlers will find out how to do whatever they want with the tools at hand. This hampers a few plvling techniques, but exacts a tangible cost to players in terms of freedom to play how they want. Overall, I don't think this will have any real effect on plvling. They'll go do their outdoor mission maps, and players doing content will have to do their "Kill 150 Crey" hunt missions in a big group because you wanted to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
I don't buy the plvling hurts the game argument because what it really comes down to is "Is the content interesting enough to curb Plvling?" For a lot of players it is. For some players, it doesn't matter, they'll always plvl. For some, they have half a dozen toons over lvl 40, and they've done every mission, badge, story arc, TF, trial, etc. 3-4 times, and they just want to play with a new AT/build.
You're trying to tell people how to play the game, even though they're playing well within the confines of your world. If its not griefing, and doesn't violate the CoC/ToS, either leave it alone, or make it an exploit. To me, tram plvlers are like RP'ers in Galaxy. Its not how I chose to play the game, but it doesn't bother me one bit. Some people are going to do only missions for their xp (until mid 30's when you start running out) because it makes them feel heroic. Some are gonna roll up a Taxi Bot and recall people all day. Some will host a play in Perez Park, and some will sit all day while getting plvled by a friend or 2nd account.
Lastly, a quick question: How does this effect badge credit? I NEVER do hunt badges within 300 yds of my teammates, often a mile or more away. Like many players, I've put a lot of time into collecting my hunt badges, solo and in teams. I currently have all of them (except for isolator, which I did not have the option of getting). If I had to stay close to teamates to get badge credit however, I definitely wouldn't have bothered with many of them.
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Awesome post...thank you for posting it!
It boggles my mind why people are upset about PLvLing... I can somewhat understand these arguments... but have responses (they aren't flames...just possible suggestions):
"I don't want to team with somebody who doesn't know how to use her powers."
My response: Don't.
"When I see people standing at the tram being power leveled, it really bothers me!"
My response: Similar to the old joke, "Doctor... it hurts when I bend my arm like this. Doctor: Don't bend it like that." If a person is bothered by seeing people gain levels just standing there.... move to another area.
"Powerleveling encourages people to just AFK and thus causes lag."
My response: AFK timer now put in place.
I know powerleveling happens. I know it bothers people. Kill stealing happens...and it bothers people. Powerleveling honestly doesn't ruin my fun as much as kill stealing.
However, if power leveling and kill stealing ruined my fun enough to where I didn't want to play CoH... you know what? I'd stop paying $15/month.
If you can't stand the heat...........
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There are so many reasons why this is a bad idea, people have already posted why (me included). You will not stop PLers this way. The potental to harm normal players far out weigh the risk of curbing PLers.
The only way I can see to stop PLing is to put a cap on XP per hour. Find out the average XP a player makes per level per hour and make that the cap.
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Doesn't even have to be the average. Allow players to absorb experience at a rate that tops out at what a -good- player can do. Increase this rate when they're on a team. Gauge it at an exp gain rate that don't involve chain-killing purples 24/7 to get your experience. Give players the influence for anything done while the exp bar is choked full, if they keep at it.
Powerleveling is only possible because unlimited exp gain is written into the code. It is the keystone.
Exp absorption, once written into the game, is death to PLing-because the "optimal gain" no longer is one that's boosted past what one can get through exceptional play -at your own level- ,or at least the level you'd get participating actively in a team. Exploits have a barrier that fends off racking up 5 levels off the Hydra Trial in hours.
You want to mindlessly farm a mission for phat exp? Go for it. Once you hit the max, no more benefit. It'll be darn near impossible to do in normal play if you're setting the bar properly high enough.
Exp ranges are bandaiding the problem and causing normal play flow to be interfered with.
Heck, if totally choking off exp at the bar is too painful, make it a diminishing reward- like 10% normal exp if you're topped off. But the "gravy train" is what's the core of the problem here- you can get as much exp as you want, as long as people boost you to get past the normal level range by leaps and bounds.
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Well..it's much better than before..but STOP TRYING TO STOP POWERLEVELERS! umm..please Don't get me wrong this is much better..but nobody really cares about powerlevelers..
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I don't recall anyone voting you spokesperson for everyone. Nor do I recall anyone putting out a survey. As a matter of fact, most of the comments I hear in-game regarding powerlevellers are negative about them. People -DO- care about powerlevellers, all your blatant fabricated "facts" aside.
In fact, these changes are being made BECAUSE OF complaints about powerlevellers. Every time the topic of PLing comes up, it creates contraversy. This alone should be enough to tell anyone that your "nobody cares about powerelevelling" tripe is a flat-out lie.
Frankly, powerlevelling is cheating. Advancing in a game with no risk or even effort is cheating.
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Well, I agree it's cheating. And the player is cheating him/herself of some great story content.
They pay their $15/month to do this.
So how does it negatively affect others? And before I hear the "I don't want to team with somebody who PL's!", then an idea is... "Don't." When you see a person obviously has been PL'd (and they're not hard to see usually)... you could say, "Sorry...I have to go." Click the blue QUIT button...and life goes on.
The $15/month they pay is theirs to pay. If they want to use it by piddling away the story content... so be it.
It's like saying, "I don't like teaming with people who always say 'd00d' and 'dam u pwnz th@t!!' "... that doesn't mean I demand those words to automatically be filtered! Or people penalized for talking like that. I simply don't team with them.
Going to your original trainer when you hit 50 is becoming a tradition on Justice.
As for the changes and peoples right to do whatever they want...
Statesman and Cryptic studios have designed this game. They have decided that they want to cut down on the PLing, I dont think they ever invisioned a cure all to utterly stop it. But they designed it and they don't want people PLing, is that so hard to understand?
Granted, their legal does not say anything about PLing, but its not a legal issue. Its a design issue. If you guys want a MMO that lets you PL and have no one give you any static about it....go make your own/play someone else's. It is Statesman's and Cryptics product, and they can do with it as they please. You can stop paying at your leisure.
One issue that I have not seen to much of is the fact that the arena is coming, and that one is in Talos and one is in PI...two of the biggest PL zones in the game. I think part of this effort is to cut down on the TREMENDOUS lag that will be encountered when traveling in these zones with all of that extra traffic.
I for one think that PLing and people that do are a joke, and lie to themselves even:
"I don't want to have to experience that content again." How much content are you experiencing at the tram for three hours? If all that content is boring pre 50, then why play COH?, are you aware of how much post 50 content there is? I wish Statesman would make a PLing server. As soon as you log in, make a toon already at 50, name it, then the respec screen comes up, put slots on all your powers, enter gameplay, hit ghost falcon and load yourself up with Hami-o's, and go nutz in PvP. Leave the rest of the people that enjoy the content to our zones, you go do your thing elsewhere.
Everyone is coming up with instances and "what ifs" for singular events and issues, but overall, IF you play the game the way States/Cryptic want us to play, then you should have little to no problems.
All the snivelers can quit COH, go play WoW, you can max a toon in 3 weeks. Go play EQ and fight Orcs and Goblins...never seen that stuff before...all new content...ooooo loook A DRAGON!!! 
OMG LOOK...Matrix Online!!! Can you PL in these games? Most of the people that I know that have gone to play those games always come back to COH for some reason.
All PLers justify finding loopholes in the design as their right to do it, and States has every right to go ahead and close one or two if he feels like it, and you have every right to leave and play something else. This will not stop PLing, but it is a start in the right direction. If you don't like the program, change the channel. Look at all the previous PL threads, there are many different people who don't like or care about it, but always a select few that champion PLing over and over. Wonder why the numbers are so far apart? Maybe Statesman is just doing what a majority of players, that pay their $15 a month too, already want him to do?
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If you don't like the program, change the channel.
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Same can be said about those who complain about PLers "messing up their game."
One thing these same people probably don't believe is: "Live and let live."
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How will this curb PL'ing?
The annoyance factor. PL'ing works becasue you can rack up multiple levels and then train them all at once and the higher level's don't have to go out of their way to let this happen. If you keep having to escort your SK back to atlas from tallos it will get annoying. I think this would provide a deterent.
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It'll be as annoying as having to escort your regular SK back for people who are NOT PLing. As usual, the idea will be as inconvenient for regular players as it is for PLers. Only I imagine that anyone who is planning to PL will have RF to make the effort much less of a hassle for THEM than for an average group who may or may not have that power.
I don't think it will have a huge impact on either group, thankfully, since it impacts the exact same mechanisms for both. It's just a question of whether sharing equal inconvenience with PLers will be worth it.
While reading through some of the posts on this board I ead a suggestion of putting a timer on someone that has died so that the toon would be transported to the hospital after a set period of time if they did not rez in some fashion beforehand. What happens to any that are sk'd to that toon? How are they compensated for their death? I don't think this is a good idea.
As for the range rules, I have been on several teams, all level 46-48, that have split up while hunting to get through a mission faster. Each has hunted in the area that was most suited to their level, and each risked damage. If, as I read it, they are more than 300 feet away from their mates, any xp from teammates would be forfiet. This violates the idea that this rule is set to make an individual risk damage to get xp, and wont get any if no risk is involved. Indeed, damage risk is involved in this case, but the player is penalized. Again I disagree that the xp range rules is a good solution.
I play this game because it is fun, and there is a lot of ways I can play, depending upon my mood. I was involved in PL'ing once by standing at the tram sk'd to another higher level toon, and decided it is not my cup of tea, so I do not do it anymore. My choice. I liked being in the action too much. I have sk'd my low level toons to high levels at times to level up a specific toon, but have been involved in the activities, indeed have died in them. This could be considered PLing as I advanced quickly. The toon I was doing this with will be used to exempt a higher level toon so we can do the low level task forces. Is this wrong? Will people find fault with that also? It is one of the things that the game is designed to allow, and it gives me and the ones I play with enjoment. Should I be penalized because I do it this way? Should I be penalized because someone does it a different way?
As for th folks that think that giving influence and enhancements to lower level characters is wrong, this game is designed to encourage teaming. A team helps eachother. I believe that this would apply to helping a lower level player getting the most out of their toon as early as possible. He/she is likely to repeat the favor later on. Is it wrong, or is it acting heroic and helping the little guy?
My two cents worth.
After mulling through the 55 pages of the thread now, I feel comfortable enough in the topic to make a comment.
It is a long post but it addresses the XP change as a cumulative effect with other things. After having read 55 pages, I feel I deserve to say a large piece.
Please note I am not trying to get any ATS nerfed. The points I make are not to get Tankers and Scrappers penalized but to actually to keep the Support ATS from getting more time in the Penalty Box themselves.
The biggest problems I see with the proposed modifications are:
1. The changes would have little to no impact on Power Leveling.
2. The changes would stifle creativity.
3. The changes would negatively impact the Super Hero genre the game is attempting to be.
4. The changes favor the ATS that are rife with advantages while penalizing others.
1...The changes would have little to no impact on Power Leveling:
Having to grind my controller to level 34, I have been on both sides of the power leveling coin.
I have assisted lower level characters by allowing them along on my instance-based missions (where they follow at a safe distance), collecting the increased experience as well as enhancements, inspirations and influence.
I have also benefited from two Runs with the Wolves, one timed and one not. In the timed mission I did get rendered unconscious 4 times as I was responsible for keeping the tanker up via Fortitude and Clear Mind (with the occasional heal and Recovery Aura thrown in). I flew above him but occasionally took a hit when coming into range to heal (the joy of healing drawing aggro). Even with 4 KOs and the mission being timed, I still gained a level (from level 31 to 32). We hit the mission seven times, using up about 50 minutes of the timer and then split up to get all the clickies the next time through. Enjoying one last round of arrests of the wolves following the Mission Complete. After that we went to another mission where you could herd the baddies and arrest them without a timer and with no wolves in sight and got more experience because they were tougher than the wolves.
On second instance of Running with the Wolves I got to sit back, buffing the twin tankers at the beginning. I did nothing and still gained one level (level 33 to 34 yes, I ground from 32 to 33).
I now assist people on my Friends list by grinding through Brickstown (soon Ill move to another portion of the city). I simply TP them to my location a good 50 to 100 feet from the fight, and commence beating on baddies that are Green through Orange for me and allow them to gather the experience from my efforts. The changes will not affect this one bit (whether I am in a mission or simply using Teleport Ally to get people nearby). Distance wont matter to the dedicated only to the innocent. As a person assisting someone to level faster, I am going to be conscious of the distance to the other players the casual player, focused on the content - is not.
2...The changes would stifle creativity:
As a controller, I have a hard enough time proving my merit to groups. Though very effective on Task Forces, my mission merit is seriously lacking. I dont have any AoE damage effects, I do extremely poor damage, I die easily when hit (one to two hit kills with things my level). Most tankers and scrappers dont need healers along much anymore not since they got moved to the Med/High, High/Med level. My Defender has it worse (at least Controllers have pets) and my Blaster is the WORST. When a limitation is imposed on how groups can work with one another, it stifles creativity and tactics.
Part of the enjoyment of grouping (and really one of the best reasons) is being given a goal and seeing how each group approaches it. Groups rebound ideas off each other and influence the thoughts of others opening new avenues of thought. Having a group tactically separate to cover a zone more efficiently is an Experience building exercise.
The asinine concept of experience only coming from beating someone into unconsciousness (or simply standing near someone who does) is ridiculous. Sure, there are the occasional missions of patrol this, or click this but they seem to be thrown in as an afterthought to give the impression the game isnt dedicated to the scrappers/tankers.
As it stands, to be a better support AT (a term I very much disagree with), you must stand near the fighters as watching them beat someone down teaches you all about putting people to sleep with your mind, or harnessing the power of gravity, summoning storms or manipulating radiation fields.
3...The changes would negatively impact the Super Hero genre the game is attempting to be:
The proposed concept of this game is to be a superhero. Now, everything I ever read about superheroes (and watched in cartoons, television shows and movies) made them out to be Noble (this is going off the notion of Super Heroes, not simply ultra-powerful mutations or magicians that happen to have their own comic book line) - Superman (well the entire Justice League), Batman (not the Dark Knight) & Robin, the Fantastic Four
Throughout comics (and other mediums) it was not uncommon for groups to separate to accomplish a task quicker keeping in mind that innocent civilians will be suffer for your delay. If a group wants to maintain the Super Hero feel and immediately whoop up on 30 Freakshow by splitting up and taking as many down as quickly as possible why penalize them for it? Why discourage Role-Playing in an MMORolePlayingG? The proposed change simply turns heroism into a matter of proximity not a matter of action.
4...The changes already favor ATS that are rife with advantages, while penalizing others:
As the game stands, it is becoming less and less City of Heroes and more and more City of Thugs. The Tanker and Scrapper ATS by far have the game engineered to promote their game play above the other ATS. Sad fact but true. This is seen in the XP system as is. Most missions are capture/arrest so and so and his allies. Unfortunately, Arrest can only be accomplished through damage. Damage is the province of the Scrappers and Tankers. Too few missions are Arrest only this guy or Find this evidence. Hell, none of the missions in any way entail the Hero getting in and out unseen to prevent the bad guys from knowing there on to them (my bad, there was that one with the freakshow and the cool egg costume). No Failed missions for bad guys sounding an Alarm. Hell a sounded alarm is an advantage for these guys, puts all the baddies in one place.
Tankers and Scrappers can get the majority of their Dual and Single Origin enhancements before the Controllers and Defenders (and to a lesser degree, the blasters). The ability to do more damage, be more accurate, resist more damage and heal more damage (oh look, something for the healer set of defender/controller only) are all purchasable at level 12. However, to hold longer, slow longer, drain more endurance (electric boogey-woogey), recover more endurance, make your teammates more accurate or baddies less accurate (or easier to hit), you need to be level 22 to purchase (As the purchasable ones are level 25).
Tankers and Scrappers have by far the highest XP per hour in the game as is. Meaning, they advance much faster. With Resistances, higher hit points and more damage dealing, they are far more effective in a HACK-AND-SLASH game, which unfortunately is what City of Thugs is all about. Blasters are too squishy to be effective for this, even though they have high damage, they have low hit points meaning they cant afford to miss.
How do you defeat any of the Bosses (Elite Bosses and Arch Villains)? You beat them to a bloody pulp, thats how. You cant Hold, Incapacitate or Sleep a villain into custody you can only beat them.
With this as the backdrop, the Scrappers and Tankers again will see the benefits. They arent being penalized in any way by this proposal. Sure many say that the Support ATS should stay nearby but what classifies the Support ATS? Seems to me like Xavier wasnt a Support character that support characters were all the X-Men.
Take a step back and compare this to other things in the real world, where you are offer up money for something but never really own it
When you borrow a book from the library they dont tell you cant go to the end of it. When you rent a movie, you arent told you cant fast forward it. When you lease a car, they dont tell you how you can drive it. Im paying my rental fee each month for access to the servers, game updates and additional content.
You might not like how I read the book (perhaps Im a speed-reader); how I watch the movie, perhaps the dialogue between the two main characters is boring (and I fast forward through it); how I drive my car (taking the interstate instead of secondaries) as long as Im not actually hurting anyone or the property in question, it shouldnt make a difference.
For these reasons and many more, I assist Heroes to become a more productive Guardians of Paragon City whenever I can. Why shouldnt I? Everyone, no matter how many hours they play, must pay the same base rate of $15.00 a month to play the game. That means, whether they play the 60+ hours a week or 15 hours a month, they must dispense with $15.00. Why should they be penalized in game content for real world money? Yes we introduced this really cool content that you can't play with because you haven't dedicated 300 hours at 15 per month = $300.00 that was given to the person that has only paid $60.00 because they have more spare time. Perhaps they have children, a spouse, family, a job, school, etc
that demands they spend more time in real life and cant get on as often. Does that mean they deserve less content and fun for their money? I have Cable TV, and they don't tell me I can't watch a specific program on a channel because I don't watch that channel enough times a month. NO, absolutely NOT!
Mind you, the rate at which I assist is rather slow but the proposed changes dont affect the quick leveling only the slow. People that get leveled with me see the content, read my clues, fight the baddies and watch the stories.
Much like less-experienced heroes, they dont understand everything that is going on as they cant see the big picture the Higher level Hero has. The desire to see the big picture the captivating content, the progressive stories and ever-changing Villains that is what is going to hold people to City of Heroes, a restricted grind through levels isn't. Hell, limited exposure to the Malta and Artemis has intrigued me and I can't wait to encounter them - but the same is true for the Clockwork King (who I never saw).
I myself am trying to get through the game as quickly as possible, currently ignoring much content (but wanting to further explore it) to get to level 50 as quickly as possible so I can play a Kheldian. Then, as a Kheldian or one of the other ATS due to come out, I can saturate myself with the story unconcerned with the parts of the game I cant play because I have real world responsibilities/interferences that prevent me from playing 50+ hours a week.
But let it be clear Developers Im trying to get there because I am interested in the additional content but want to have access to it when I want it. At $15.00 a month like everyone else, I deserve at least that.
You want to get rid of power-leveling, get rid of level-accessed content - as one directly leads to the other.
Thats my $15.00 worth ($110.00 actually)
By the way, if you are on the Victory Server and need assistance leveling, just send a message over to Pyramids Mind if you see him on Ill be happy to assist my fellow Heroes of Paragon City (assuming Im not assisting others at the time). And if you wouldnt mind assisting me towards my Kheldian or making Pyramids Mind a more productive member of Paragon Citys Super Heroes, send me a tell as well.
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People thought energy blasters were unpopular before.....
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We need knockback reduction enhancements, or i wont team with eng blasters or illusion controllers.