I cant agree more on "Golden One" Pls read his post two times. Stand alone enough not to do.
This will spoil the FUN of all, not touching the PLers much.
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There are so many reasons why this is a bad idea, people have already posted why (me included). You will not stop PLers this way. The potental to harm normal players far out weigh the risk of curbing PLers.
The only way I can see to stop PLing is to put a cap on XP per hour. Find out the average XP a player makes per level per hour and make that the cap.
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Doesn't even have to be the average. Allow players to absorb experience at a rate that tops out at what a -good- player can do. Increase this rate when they're on a team. Gauge it at an exp gain rate that don't involve chain-killing purples 24/7 to get your experience. Give players the influence for anything done while the exp bar is choked full, if they keep at it.
Powerleveling is only possible because unlimited exp gain is written into the code. It is the keystone.
Exp absorption, once written into the game, is death to PLing-because the "optimal gain" no longer is one that's boosted past what one can get through exceptional play -at your own level- ,or at least the level you'd get participating actively in a team. Exploits have a barrier that fends off racking up 5 levels off the Hydra Trial in hours.
You want to mindlessly farm a mission for phat exp? Go for it. Once you hit the max, no more benefit. It'll be darn near impossible to do in normal play if you're setting the bar properly high enough.
Exp ranges are bandaiding the problem and causing normal play flow to be interfered with.
Heck, if totally choking off exp at the bar is too painful, make it a diminishing reward- like 10% normal exp if you're topped off. But the "gravy train" is what's the core of the problem here- you can get as much exp as you want, as long as people boost you to get past the normal level range by leaps and bounds.
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Thanks for adding on to the idea and helping it to take better shape. I honestly thought I would read feedback like "Worst. Idea. Ever" or "That sucks". Or even "Damn you for second guessing the devs, they are great and everything they do is great, quit CoH and leave us loyal happy players". Or something to that effect.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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Thanks for adding on to the idea and helping it to take better shape. I honestly thought I would read feedback like "Worst. Idea. Ever" or "That sucks". Or even "Damn you for second guessing the devs, they are great and everything they do is great, quit CoH and leave us loyal happy players". Or something to that effect.
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I don't know why you expected that. This is a good idea, one that kills "powerleveling" right at the source. Overall, most of the arguments have been over a definition of "powerleveling". Attempts at a better solution are always welcome.
It does it nondisruptively, and requires no change notice. It won't affect teaming or SKing or Exemplaring. I can't see how any plan can get better than this one.
The only Caveat that I can see is that the cap needs to be set medium-high, and extra XP needs to converted into influence, so that some powerplayers can get something from an arrest over the cap.
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
Why on Earth would anyone want to curb PLing?? What's wrong with letting people play the game how THEY want to???
Starting to sound like a virtual dictatorship to me... 
This range changing idea sounds like a bad one IMO. If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it! Seems to me that people aren't playing how the creators would like them to, so they are changing the rules to force them to.
I'm a great believer in letting people do their own thing (it's what MMORPGs are all about!!) and get very annoyed by people trying to control that.
Of course, this is just my perception of the situation, so I'll happily be corrected with an assurance that this isn't the case at all! 
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Why on Earth would anyone want to curb PLing?? What's wrong with letting people play the game how THEY want to???
Starting to sound like a virtual dictatorship to me...
This range changing idea sounds like a bad one IMO. If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it! Seems to me that people aren't playing how the creators would like them to, so they are changing the rules to force them to.
I'm a great believer in letting people do their own thing (it's what MMORPGs are all about!!) and get very annoyed by people trying to control that.
Of course, this is just my perception of the situation, so I'll happily be corrected with an assurance that this isn't the case at all!
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Hey I feel pretty much the same way you do, I just wanted to offer up a "better" solution to the borked up one that is currently on test.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
Reply not directed at you bud, just used in the absence of a general reply button... 
Admire your suggesting an alternative. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with it as it is!
Ooh, just thought of another very good point! (IMO of course! 
)
Just remember who's paying for this guys! You don't tell the customers what to do! If they've started using a service in the way they want to, you don't go and change what the service does!
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Going to your original trainer when you hit 50 is becoming a tradition on Justice.
As for the changes and peoples right to do whatever they want...
Statesman and Cryptic studios have designed this game. They have decided that they want to cut down on the PLing, I dont think they ever invisioned a cure all to utterly stop it. But they designed it and they don't want people PLing, is that so hard to understand?
[/ QUOTE ] That point is quite clear, what isn't clear at all is why [ QUOTE ]
Granted, their legal does not say anything about PLing, but its not a legal issue. Its a design issue. If you guys want a MMO that lets you PL and have no one give you any static about it....go make your own/play someone else's. It is Statesman's and Cryptics product, and they can do with it as they please. You can stop paying at your leisure.
[/ QUOTE ] oh and I was thinking that the best interest of Cryptic and States would be to keep players playing the game- my bad [ QUOTE ]
One issue that I have not seen to much of is the fact that the arena is coming, and that one is in Talos and one is in PI...two of the biggest PL zones in the game. I think part of this effort is to cut down on the TREMENDOUS lag that will be encountered when traveling in these zones with all of that extra traffic.
[/ QUOTE ] So if I understand you, you somehow think that more lag is produced when players just stand around, than if those same players are interacting with the zone? I would think all that extra traffic would increase lag rather than decrease it. If lag was the biggest concern, PLing would be encouraged rather than discouraged since an inactive player would create less impact than an active one[ QUOTE ]
I for one think that PLing and people that do are a joke, and lie to themselves even:
"I don't want to have to experience that content again." How much content are you experiencing at the tram for three hours?
[/ QUOTE ]hmm 3 hours of boredom chatting, or 3 weeks (or more) of boredom replaying the same content....I'll take the 3 hours please[ QUOTE ]
If all that content is boring pre 50, then why play COH?
[/ QUOTE ]It was fun the first time but I'd like to try a new AT[ QUOTE ]
are you aware of how much post 50 content there is?
[/ QUOTE ]yup[ QUOTE ]
I wish Statesman would make a PLing server. As soon as you log in, make a toon already at 50, name it, then the respec screen comes up, put slots on all your powers, enter gameplay, hit ghost falcon and load yourself up with Hami-o's, and go nutz in PvP. Leave the rest of the people that enjoy the content to our zones, you go do your thing elsewhere.
[/ QUOTE ] Since the people that are not- interacting just standing around aren't stopping you from enjoying your content, are already leaveing you alone, I guess that goal has been accomplished[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is coming up with instances and "what ifs" for singular events and issues, but overall, IF you play the game the way States/Cryptic want us to play, then you should have little to no problems.
[/ QUOTE ]I think that is the most irksome thing of all. I don't need anyone to tell me how I am supposed to be playing. It's one thing if I am somehow exploiting a bug. This isn't a bugfix. It's a rulechange to force you to play a certain way. Not because it's causing a problem, but because it's not liked. Not that it's not disliked by the playerbase at large, but the developers don't like it. Fundamentally this seems flawed [ QUOTE ]
All the snivelers can quit COH, go play WoW, you can max a toon in 3 weeks. Go play EQ and fight Orcs and Goblins...never seen that stuff before...all new content...ooooo loook A DRAGON!!! 
OMG LOOK...Matrix Online!!! Can you PL in these games? Most of the people that I know that have gone to play those games always come back to COH for some reason.
[/ QUOTE ]yes you can PL in all those games, so PLing isn't the reason folks are lookng elsewhere[ QUOTE ]
All PLers justify finding loopholes in the design as their right to do it, and States has every right to go ahead and close one or two if he feels like it, and you have every right to leave and play something else. This will not stop PLing, but it is a start in the right direction. If you don't like the program, change the channel. Look at all the previous PL threads, there are many different people who don't like or care about it, but always a select few that champion PLing over and over. Wonder why the numbers are so far apart?
[/ QUOTE ] probably because most ( like me) don't think PLing affects my play in any way and there might be valid reasons to have it occuring. I've only found a select few that actively don't like it. I've read much of the threads about this topic and I have yet to see a reason that the "I hate PLing" group has that couldn't be fixed with a far less intrusive tweak.[ QUOTE ]
Maybe Statesman is just doing what a majority of players, that pay their $15 a month too, already want him to do?
[/ QUOTE ]I would submit that most have shown that they don't care about PLing but do care about this change.
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If people are offended by PLers because it causes lag or they steal kills I have a surprise for you.
Look around the zones! They are not near as crowded as they once were!
I have been on several times where I was just about the only one in Kings Row. Six months ago the zones were packed.
If you think the arena is going to bring a ton of people back then you are sadly mistaken. The arena will be popular for about three months then they will die down too.
For crying out loud, 3 out of every 5 pick-up groups I get into have at least 1 or more PLers on them. If you do everything possible to stop PLers then they will leave and the zones will be even more empty.
But maybe that is what all the whiners who are complaining about PLing want. To be Burgess from that Twilight Zone episode that just wanted to be the last man on Earth and read his books.
When that does happen you will miss the PLers because with out their subscription fees the game goes down and you are left sitting in front of your computer asking "Why?"
I play the game because I like it, and no amount of PLers will ruin my fun.
Now it is up to those who run the game to figure that out as well.
[/ QUOTE ]no one care really about plers people hate the spam and harrassment that people who want some thing.manny of us just dont want to deal with it anymore because a new player will come here and see a thread lvl 1-5 in a week or something to that effect and will try to do so.
but i dont care what you do as long it dose not lead to nerfs and technicly why should you if you are not a asset to the teams success.
"Never attempt to balance mechanics through Role Playing."
Castle
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Thanks for adding on to the idea and helping it to take better shape. I honestly thought I would read feedback like "Worst. Idea. Ever" or "That sucks". Or even "Damn you for second guessing the devs, they are great and everything they do is great, quit CoH and leave us loyal happy players". Or something to that effect.
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I don't know why you expected that. This is a good idea, one that kills "powerleveling" right at the source. Overall, most of the arguments have been over a definition of "powerleveling". Attempts at a better solution are always welcome.
It does it nondisruptively, and requires no change notice. It won't affect teaming or SKing or Exemplaring. I can't see how any plan can get better than this one.
The only Caveat that I can see is that the cap needs to be set medium-high, and extra XP needs to converted into influence, so that some powerplayers can get something from an arrest over the cap.
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Doing this would allow a reward for players that somehow manage to break the curve, but not in a bad way- they'd effectively be more able to afford DO's/SO's in the "Influence Crush" you get going into the high teens/low 20's. Sort of a meta-exemplaring of the excess, but one that gives a reward to super-OMG-play that doesn't ram level ups through like a freight train. Heck, I know at some points I'd have tried that just to build up influence in the 20's for my next rack of DO/SO purchases...and it'd be a lot more fun that the solution of sending yourself into exp debt to build influence up, if you're good enough to manage it.
Seriously, people. Exp absorption is a thousand times less kludgy than XP ranges and it pulls the heart out of PLing faster than Kano doing a fatality move on Mortal Kombat.
Or maybe the spinal cord. I was always fond of Sub-Zero, guess why my main's an Ice Blaster? :P
No "Range" kludging. No "This works on missions, it doesn't outside.". And the end to unlimited exping that defines powerleveling. It'll keep the fun in teaming up, and that means the critical Rule Number One* is not broken.
Kill the range code. It's invoking Rule Number Two*. I want to be an all-natural free-range hero, not a leashed hound.
*Rule Number One: Always have fun. Rule Number Two: If not having fun, see Rule Number One.
Thanks, FrostyBot. Input is good, and funny hyperbole is even better!
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Seriously, people. Exp absorption is a thousand times less kludgy than XP ranges and it pulls the heart out of PLing faster than Kano doing a fatality move on Mortal Kombat. No "Range" kludging. No "This works on missions, it doesn't outside.". And the end to unlimited exping that defines powerleveling. It'll keep the fun in teaming up, and that means the critical Rule Number One* is not broken.
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I can see this now..."Everyone meet at the Tram in Bricks! Need your Influcence Badges? Send a tell!"
Statesman comes out and "Bans Influence Mongering". Blood is shed, and martyrs are made. Real fun! 
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Kill the range code. It's invoking Rule Number Two*. I want to be an all-natural free-range hero, not a leashed hound.
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I was wondering about this....so does Free-Range Hero taste better? Is that why you want to be one?
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*Rule Number One: Always have fun. Rule Number Two: If not having fun, see Rule Number One.
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I follow that rule everywhere I go; it scares people...
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
hm. handles street hunting [one minute might be a bit too fast] but leaves missions alone so that teams can split.
sounds closer to actually fixing the problem... I still wonder about the whole autofollow-the-bridge part though...
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I understand what your saying and agree for the most part but like you say herding why is that wrong if the person can handle all the hits then whats wrong with that and im going to go as far as to say why is it wrong if he or she wants to share that xp he's getting i mean its his or her xp right what he or she does with it should be up to him or her, I guess what im trying to say is why is it so important to slow people down, to be so honest i wouldn't play the game if i had to start a new toon from lvl 1 to lvl 20 everytime i wanted to roll another toon, see for me i like trying out other types of toons and i would really hate if i had to grind all the way to lvl 20 to find out i dont like this toon and let me be clear im not one that wants to PL all the way to 50 because what would be the point in that. Their are just lvls that are really boreing maybe if in this game their was something to do beside fight bad guys or i dont know, but dont get me wrong i love this game and i love it the way it is and i dont want to see the devs trying to stop PL and mess around and make the game less free and more stressful to play for everyone I just think this whole 200 ft thing is a very bad idea just to let you know, oh and btw this is coming from someone that has never made it to lvl 50 yet and ive been playing the game almost as long as its been out.
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This is one of the longest run-on sentences I have ever seen. Did someone nerf the period key while I wasn't looking? 
Please play and rate my AE arcs! Just look for @Captain Titan, and you'll find them! Also, whoever made the Penelope Yin splash page needs to be told that spines don't work that way.
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Thanks, FrostyBot. Input is good, and funny hyperbole is even better!
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It's the rare nasty discussion that doesn't go down better with a spoonful of sugar.
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Kill the range code. It's invoking Rule Number Two*. I want to be an all-natural free-range hero, not a leashed hound.
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I was wondering about this....so does Free-Range Hero taste better? Is that why you want to be one?
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We're healthier that way. You'd have to ask the Devouring Earth or maybe Dr. Vahzilok about the other benefits. But happy heroes are healthy ones.
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*Rule Number One: Always have fun. Rule Number Two: If not having fun, see Rule Number One.
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I follow that rule everywhere I go; it scares people...
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Good. Fear will keep them in line.
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So people, what do you think? Does the idea of experience absorption strike you as an effective method of controlling PLing, without putting non-PLers through awkward hoops or denying good players legit exp?
Statesman? The rest of Team Developers? Does the datamining available possibly give you a baseline to establish a way to do something like this? Will this idea possibly kill your flock of PLing birds with one stone? If you need more sugar to brainstorm it, I got a few boxes of Girl Scout cookies in the freezer to send.
I think it is far more consistent than anything we have heard so far (for what my opinion is worth). I am always leary of hard ceilings, but with the defense caps and what-not working fine I can see the player base accepting it.
The trick is always in the details though, and that would be determining the actual cap.
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I think it is far more consistent than anything we have heard so far (for what my opinion is worth). I am always leary of hard ceilings, but with the defense caps and what-not working fine I can see the player base accepting it.
The trick is always in the details though, and that would be determining the actual cap.
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That's why I ask if there's datamining to find those numbers. How many missions (not do mission/reset/do again/reset) on average get run by a soloer set to Invincible by the hour? What exp rate does this result in? What's the difference if it's a 2-man group? 3,6,8?
How does this compare to someone's exp gain if PLed? Setting the bar to not block the first but give minimal benefit to the second would be my goal, if I was a developer.
I've been away for a while. Have the devs said anything lately about whether they're going forward with the Regen changes as originally proposed? So far I haven't seen anything which says otherwise, but maybe I've missed something.
For the record, I still think Integration should be left alone, but I'm only lvl 30 now and just getting used to Instant Healing, so I still dont have anything to say about the proposed changes to IH.
NewScrapper
I think the approach is incorrect - and that was the point of my post. Instead of trying to figure out how to write 10 million ways to prevent people from powerleveling with restrictions and code; figure out why people are powerleveling and remove the reason.
I'm powerleveling because I have been told I have to put in "x" number of hours play to have access to other content. For me though, "x" number of hours equals a larger number of months - hence more money for me than a person that can play more often.
I am powerleveling because I have to pay more REAL LIFE MONEY to get access to IN GAME CONTENT. With the current system - assuming 300 hours to hit level 50, I would have to pay $75.00 to have access to Kheldians, where as a 50+ week player (and I know many) only takes six weeks and hence only pays at most $30.00 for the same content.
By additional content, I don't mean different Arch Villains or story arcs, I mean different options of how to play the game. I accept that I will have to level to get access to other parts of the story - that isn't a problem. And... Once I get one toon to 50, I'll go back and worry about the story - but at my own pace with whatever AT I want.
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I understand what your saying and agree for the most part but like you say herding why is that wrong if the person can handle all the hits then whats wrong with that and im going to go as far as to say why is it wrong if he or she wants to share that xp he's getting i mean its his or her xp right what he or she does with it should be up to him or her, I guess what im trying to say is why is it so important to slow people down, to be so honest i wouldn't play the game if i had to start a new toon from lvl 1 to lvl 20 everytime i wanted to roll another toon, see for me i like trying out other types of toons and i would really hate if i had to grind all the way to lvl 20 to find out i dont like this toon and let me be clear im not one that wants to PL all the way to 50 because what would be the point in that. Their are just lvls that are really boreing maybe if in this game their was something to do beside fight bad guys or i dont know, but dont get me wrong i love this game and i love it the way it is and i dont want to see the devs trying to stop PL and mess around and make the game less free and more stressful to play for everyone I just think this whole 200 ft thing is a very bad idea just to let you know, oh and btw this is coming from someone that has never made it to lvl 50 yet and ive been playing the game almost as long as its been out.
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This is one of the longest run-on sentences I have ever seen. Did someone nerf the period key while I wasn't looking?
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Yeah, it was nerfed right after the semicolon .... That's an evil thing, the semicolon .... Granted you can still use periods if they are together and are show signs of a pause .... go me .... I wanna smack the nerf company current .... for creating the word nerf .... especially when it's not necessary .... then again, when did we really need foam bats ....
I run missions and i have plvld. I like doing both. These changes DO take away freedom from the game. The people who apparently have nothing better to do than complain about how others are playing their toons dont even have real complaints to make. One being well you dont know what your gonna get if you invite someone to the team. they might not know how to use their powers. I have run into this. I have kicked them off the team and the problem was solved. Two being i keep getting tells to pl someone. I get those also and i just dont respond. Problem solved. I'm not putting pl'ers down and im not putting mission runners down. But because you people cant simply take care of problems on your own you need the devs changing the game. It's just gonna end with a bunch of people hating the game on both sides and accounts will be cancelled. I earned the 50 on my toon from lvl 1 all the way. Now i like to be plvled till i get a transport power because sprint sux. Let people play the game they want to and stop worrying about who is doing what. worry about you and your own sg. I don't know of anyone that has been pl'd effecting the way mission runners play. But the mission runners want to effect the way power levelers play. As i said i am not taking sides. I just think a lot of you people can solve these problems on your own without crying to the devs to get it changed. I'm sure this post wont change anything but you people should be playing the game rather than crying about other people and the way they play. My final words KNOCK IT OFF BEFORE THE GAME IS SO SCREWED UP FOR EVERYONE NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY!!! Oh yea P.S devs you can do something for me though. Stop nerfing the crap out of the toons. Ya make a toon and play it. learn its abilities, build it up and suddenly its not what it use to be. You end up in debt and your world crashes down on you. You have spent many many hours building that toon and now you dont want to play it anymore. I do understand that balances need to be made. But it wont be long before you have ice tanks as squishy as blasters. Regen scrappers who cant scrap ect ect
I agree with Lazarack.
To be honest, I really don't understand the plight of the Anti PL League. If they want to play through the story arcs and mission structures, so be it. But why try to force those views on others? Are there actually any valid reasons instead of "I don't like it" for victimising PLers?
Live and let live. Life's far too short to get hung up over stupid things that really don't matter.
I would appreciate some clarification from Statesman and the dev team: Is the XP range change designed purely to make life more difficult for PLers, or is there another reason for it?
If PLers are the only reason, may I humbly suggest that you spend less time restricting how people play and more time correcting the copious amounts of typos and general text errors in the game? If there's one thing that bugs my game playing more than irritating lowbies begging me for PLing and Influence, it's badly written copy!!
Oh man, my friend told me "Don't ready the Coh forums, they'll just piss you off" and he was right. I have two paying accounts, one that my wife plays and one that I play. We enjoy our friends helping us through some of those tough levels sometimes. Missions and storyarcs are tend to get real boring. After about August 04 I just stopped reading the stories. All I see on these threads, and on most of the Coh forum is a group of individuals complain about how detrimental Power Leveling is to the game. It's not detrimental to the game. Just like the Regen Scrapper issue, all this is doing is making alot of people mad at a change that isn't needed. Why would I pay $30 a month to keep my accounts open if I have to just play story arcs with a team, the entire time. This is such a cool game because of the flexibility that a character has to work with. The few characters complaining that another character is leveling too fast is detrimental to the individual game play. As the guidlines for playstyle get too narrow a person is less likely to roll another character to 50 because they have already gone through all the content. Even though we get updates that doesn't mean that I can go to Striga Island and do anything with my level 50 yet. I have to wait for an update that will let me go back and work with an old contact. Really the staying power of this game for me was the fact that I didn't have a set path to the "End Game" as you do with most console games. There are so many ways to get to the top. Eliminating flexibility is going to make more and more people move on to other games that provide the fun and wide range of playstyles that Coh currently provides. Placeing more restrictions on game play will have a negative impact on teams that enjoy playing. All this because of a few people on the boards shouting "Power Leveling is bad" or "Power Leveling cheapens the game". OMG guys, your lobbying to get a problem fixed that isn't a problem and its placeing more restrictions on how people are going to play. YOU are detracting from the appeal of the game, not the power levelers.
Supremacy Captain
Pinnacle Server
Markusius Supremacy Legend
/e gives a round of applause to Markusius
There's a phrase that every dictator / ruler needs to learn...
The tighter you squeeze, the more that slips through your fingers.
The tighter they make the game restrictions on how we can play, the more likely it is that people will simply walk.
I have plenty of tolerance for my characters being adjusted, if I can be shown a definite need for the action. I don't see a need for this action even with the statements given thus far. This action doesn't address / accomplish their desired goals.
Earlier in this thread, I gave an outstanding idea on how to gut PLing via restricting the upper limit on a per mob basis of how much xp you can get. In a nutshell, cap earned xp per mob at character_level +4. That would mean a +4 mob and a +8 mob are worth the same thing... a +4 mob. That takes the heart right out of herd PLing because it's no longer the xp cow it once was.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
If people are offended by PLers because it causes lag or they steal kills I have a surprise for you.
Look around the zones! They are not near as crowded as they once were!
I have been on several times where I was just about the only one in Kings Row. Six months ago the zones were packed.
If you think the arena is going to bring a ton of people back then you are sadly mistaken. The arena will be popular for about three months then they will die down too.
For crying out loud, 3 out of every 5 pick-up groups I get into have at least 1 or more PLers on them. If you do everything possible to stop PLers then they will leave and the zones will be even more empty.
But maybe that is what all the whiners who are complaining about PLing want. To be Burgess from that Twilight Zone episode that just wanted to be the last man on Earth and read his books.
When that does happen you will miss the PLers because with out their subscription fees the game goes down and you are left sitting in front of your computer asking "Why?"
I play the game because I like it, and no amount of PLers will ruin my fun.
Now it is up to those who run the game to figure that out as well.