Hamidon Enhancements in the Arena

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This thread is hilarious, you got people posting in their same post that States said that Hammi's would be at SO level in arena, and then they COMPLAIN the next line that your powers are buffed by 50% instead of 33%.

People people people. A hammied out person will not be nearly as uber as you think. If you have 6 single origins in your attack for dmg, your going to do the same dmg as any one in the arena would do with 6 Hammi's for dmg. WHY?
THEY WORK LIKE SINGLES. They will have better accuracy than you, yes.

But lets face it guys.... your playing D&D PvP. In all reality, LUCK plays a factor in to much of the battles. That guaranteed 5% miss rate. That guaranteed 5% chance to get hit. These things make CoH not a true battle of skill. If you want true skill go play a RTS, like warcraft 3 (with a trusted friend, read further and you'll understand why).

Now look at what people are going to be doing that farm hammi's. They are using respecs to make Haste peramanent with only 4 slots.... SURPRISE AGAIN this player is now gimped vs a single origin build in the arena. Cause their hammi's only recharge at 33%. So they are missing two slots to make haste permanent.

I started participating in the hammi raids at lvl 45, the earliest I could, and being a Dark/Dark/Dark Scrapper, I feel I contribute to all phases of the raid, with Dark Blast, Petrifying Gaze, and of course my Attack line up when Hammi finally gets contained. I want these hammi's to create a Hero that I can run around Paragon's most dangerous areas and throw my self at the most challenging of villians. There is NOTHING any one can do to keep YOU an INDIVIDUAL from getting a hammi, just sit there all calm till hammi is almost dead. Go hit the thing ONCE, and run away. You will get a hammi. Just get level 45, and you can get in. Now should you be allowed into the Hive prior to 45? I don't know, do you really want to play this game, or have everything handed to you on a silver platter? Well? Whats it going to be?

PvP in all online games introduces the following into the community. Jealousy, Hacking, and Name Calling. Your going to have people that buy hammi's on ebay. Your going to have people that buy accounts on ebay. Your going to have people who in the past have kill stealed numerous HO from those who earned them. Your going to have people that now attend every raid with the sole purpose to make them selves more uber than you.

But heres the good news. Who cares its RPG style PvP. Computer is fighting half the battle for you. So the people who are doing all these thing to be A#1 with they're min/maxed build, they are the ones who loose out, cause they think they are actually skilled. *chuckles* Poor fools, they'll never realize its all for fun.

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Actually, Statesman said that within the weight class of levels 45-50, HO's will use all of their included bonuses.
Lower levels though, will act as SO's, like you said.

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This thread is hilarious, you got people posting in their same post that States said that Hammi's would be at SO level in arena, and then they COMPLAIN the next line that your powers are buffed by 50% instead of 33%.

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What's hilarious are people complaining about other peeps misreading a post, and then getting it bass ackwards. 45-50, HO's are still 50% buffs. That's why some are concerned. SO level buffs don't happen unless the hero is exemped below 45.

If you actually read the thread, you'd see that the vast majority of the posters just want two things:

1. A no-HO option for PvP, and
2. Knowledge of the no. of HO's the opponents have.

You got a problem with that? I'd luv to hear why those 2 things are going to mess up anyone's fun. Who isn't a demented weasel playing CoH to spam, "Noob u pwnzed!111!!" after winning a battle w/ a HO'd-up hero.

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Nucleolus - 50% DAM + 50% ACC
Centriole - 50% DAM + 30% Range
Peroxisome - 50% DAM + 50% "Mez"
Endoplasm - 50% ACC + 50% "Mez"
Golgi - 50% HEAL + 50% END
Ribosome - 30% RES + 50% END
Microfilament - 50% Travel + 50% END

Lysosome - 50% -ToHit + 50% -Def + 50% ACC
Enzyme - 50% -ToHit + 50% -Def + 50% END
Membrane - 50% ToHit + 30% DEF + 50% RCH
Cytoskeleton- 50% ToHit + 30% DEF + 50% END

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I'm curious how much testing you did to get these numbers. I'd like to believe they're accurate, just so I have something solid to go by on what my toons need.

Smart man States.

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1. A no-HO option for PvP, and


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That's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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2. Knowledge of the no. of HO's the opponents have.


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No. PvP is fun because you just can't manage all risk like you can in PvE. In fact, it would be better if you had NO access to your opponent's info other than what you observe.

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As a side note; got 4 HOs in Headsplitter. I walked up to a level 50 Carnie, hit BU and critted.

Damage - 810 x 2! I want to share one more thing:

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Scrapper Critical Hits cannot be resisted.


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See you in the arena!

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1. A no-HO option for PvP, and


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That's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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If you want the reward, fight your real opponent, not an artificially buffed one.

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2. Knowledge of the no. of HO's the opponents have.


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No. PvP is fun because you just can't manage all risk like you can in PvE. In fact, it would be better if you had NO access to your opponent's info other than what you observe.

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Why?

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Edit: I agree with the above post in some ways, choice is good as long as it doesn't hurt the other players. I like the idea of giving a number of each type of enhancement that is slotted (not what it does or even what power it's in), but I don't think that would solve it. There really needs to be other ways of getting Hamis... a TF or two would be a good way, heck, why not make the current TFs available to the 45+ crowd give out a hami at the end?

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That sounds like a reasonable idea. Those grueling 8-person TFs in the shard deserve a better reward anyway. That might give people a choice if they can't handle the lag or have a large enough supergroup or whatever to take down hami. Then it would just require finding enough people to hold out for 6-8 hours to finish those TFs.

I've been lucky enough to get a couple of HOs myself. But the job I work at is open 7 days a week so I miss a lot of the big weekend raids where it seems like most of the 50 population of the server is getting HOs. Others in my sg have twice as many as me just because the days they have raided I am stuck at work. I'm all for another option to get HOs.

Another end-game encounter would really help a lot. But it seems the devs have been content with Hami for this long and aren't really concerned with making something new.

I'm one of the people who enjoyed the fact that there was no PvP in this game, so I'm not too concerned with the HO vs no HO issue. But I do like making my hero the best he/she can be, and HOs are the only thing left to put on my main 50. She's loaded with 53 SOs and now the only thing left are HOs. I'd love more ways to get them, and I think most people would agree that choice is good.

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1. A no-HO option for PvP, and


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That's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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If you want the reward, fight your real opponent, not an artificially buffed one.

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2. Knowledge of the no. of HO's the opponents have.


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No. PvP is fun because you just can't manage all risk like you can in PvE. In fact, it would be better if you had NO access to your opponent's info other than what you observe.

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Why?

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1. It's not an artificial buff. An artificial buff is a hack or something external to the game. Like the auto-targeting programs in FPS.

If you're too lazy to join in on the Hami-fun then you shouldn't complain when you lose.

2. Why you ask? That's what's fun to ME! I realize that's subjective and so my opinion carries no greater weight than any else's. However, my idea also doesn't involve being a coward and refusing to fight someone because I might lose.

I don't even know why you guys want to play in the Arena. You aren't looking for challenge. You just want to manage your risk down to zero so you can live out your superhero fantasies in another venue. You got the Heroic level missions for that.

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1. A no-HO option for PvP, and


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That's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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Every time you fight someone 20 levels below you, you will be 'artificially debuffed' to their level, and you will still get rankings from such matches.

Remember, a no HOs option would be just that - an *option*. If you are scared to face an opponent without having a selection of percentile increases on your side, then don't take that risk.

As far as I can tell, badges are only for officially sanctioned tournaments.

I really like the TF reward idea. HOs shouldn't be controlled by one or two groups per server that have far too much time on their hands for games. Would give us a reason to do more TFs. You could even have certain AV drop certain HO and give us some control over what we get to cut down on the random time sink of months of farming now that hami is a 9 hour spawn or whatever. 40 HOs * 9 hours is 15 24 hour days of 100 % of your time spent in solid hami killing and preparing. Now try a year or two when you factor in random drops, one raid a week, REAL LIFE, etc.

It is unrealistic BS in game goal design like this that causes people to leave MMOs in droves once realization sinks in of how underpowered they will be in the arena vs. hami equipped farmers.

Give me an impossibly hard 8 person TF and I will lead a small tight group to blow it up on a regular basis and god forbid have some fun along the way instead of the much lauded "work" of farming hami. I won't setup a minimum 25 person popularity contest every day. I don't pay a monthly fee to do "work".

Hamidon has already been the site of the ugliest and most contested scenes in this game due to player greed over the single shiny slide on this MMO playground. I myself was bombarded with tells, petty threats of petitioning and had Hami and other monsters trained on me by TA, just for showing up to watch a raid.

Fix it devs, fix it fast before PVP makes it worse. Spend some time reading the SWG boards if you really want to know how bad fully item based PVP can get (the ground game).

Many people are expecting CoH to jump the shark on this one and take a big dive...dare to disappoint them.

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hat's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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This is [censored]. So you think that only those who grind out Hamidon Origins in a boring slide show should be topped ranked and everybody else should just wallow in suckitude?

Sorry, no [censored] way.

Skill should matter in the arena, not byproduct of masocistic raiding tendencies.

If your idea was the case the Devs would essentially be forcing people to engage in that big [censored] waste of time (Hamidon), or suffer the consequences in the arena.

Sorry, thats really stupid.

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hat's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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This is [censored]. So you think that only those who grind out Hamidon Origins in a boring slide show should be topped ranked and everybody else should just wallow in suckitude?

Sorry, no [censored] way.

Skill should matter in the arena, not byproduct of masocistic raiding tendencies.

If your idea was the case the Devs would essentially be forcing people to engage in that big [censored] waste of time (Hamidon), or suffer the consequences in the arena.

Sorry, thats really stupid.

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Well, if you read Statesman's post, for now, that's how its going to be.

I don't think rank matches should have ANY restrictions whatsoever. Not just HOs.

Then that is an immensely bad decision which completely ruins the arena.

I'm not [censored] farming hamidon and I don't see why I should be forced to.

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I don't think rank matches should have ANY restrictions whatsoever. Not just HOs.

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They should have whatever restrictions the participants themselves CHOOSE to place on them, INCLUDING HOs. Choice is a two-way thing. If you don't want to play in a bout with no travel powers, then don't agree to have travel powers switched off. If it becomes an issue, then go fight someone else.

An option to deactivate HOs doesn't restrict your gameplay at all. If we don't want to fight Hammied-out heroes, we don't have to. If you don't want to fight without your percentile boosts, then you don't have to.

I'm seeing quite a lot of 'OMG what if all our farming was for NOTHING?' here. If people have been rushing to farm Hami for an advantage that they *believe* they will get in the Arena before PvP has even gone to test, well, more fool them.

You know not everyone is lazy who cannot get hami-os.

Some don't have good enough computers to handle the raids.
Others work when the major raids take place ( AND YES SOME PEOPLE WORK 7 DAYS A WEEK, THANK YOU). And finally think timezones. On Virtue all week people have been raiding at 1 pm Eastern.... Sorry but even people with reasonable work schedules can't make that time, and Hami has not be respawning before midnight est the next day....

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You just want to manage your risk down to zero so you can live out your superhero fantasies in another venue.

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Who is insisting on reduced risk? A person who wants to face another on a basis of pure skill, or a person who insists on keeping a non skill based numerical boost to his abilities at all times?

If you're so keen on risk and challenge, come out from behind your HOs and face an opponent whose actions you can't predict.

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You just want to manage your risk down to zero so you can live out your superhero fantasies in another venue.

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Who is insisting on reduced risk? A person who wants to face another on a basis of pure skill, or a person who insists on keeping a non skill based numerical boost to his abilities at all times?

If you're so keen on risk and challenge, come out from behind your HOs and face an opponent whose actions you can't predict.

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I'm not the one arguing for a handicap. I'll take on anyone, with any selection of powers and any slotting. If I lose, I lose. I'm not trying to make some mythical "even" playing field.

You can try to turn that argument around, but the fact remains is that you gals and guys don't want to lose. You think that your skills are so great that ONLY if they would not have these HOs, I could win. Well, you can't. The truth is people like you who look for excuses have already lost. By playing PvP on easy mode, you will never develop the skills necessary to deal with different situations. I play a Regen Scrapper and I am VERY susceptible to being one or two shotted by naughty Blasters fully slotted with HOs. I don't care. That's the fight I want.

MMOs are not twitch-fests. You take on the choices, experience, powers AND equipment of your opponents. That's what gives it more risk than PvE and more fun. I don't have any problem with agreed restrictions, but they have no place in an official tournament or in giving awards.

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A person who wants to face another on a basis of pure skill, or a person who insists on keeping a non skill based numerical boost to his abilities at all times?


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You will never have a pvp fight based on pure skill. To get that you and your opponent would need to have the exact same powers/slots/enhancements/gaming experience. Sorry, but its not going to happen.

Now, what if you face an opponent with all + or ++ enhancements? If you dont have or cant afford them isnt that a "non skill based numerical boost to his abilities"? would you not pvp them as well?

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You will never have a pvp fight based on pure skill. To get that you and your opponent would need to have the exact same powers/slots/enhancements/gaming experience.

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Wrong. You'd only need to face an opponent who was playing a class that was balanced (check) and which had the same options to expend slots (check).

The fact that *complete* balance can't be attained doesn't make balance any less of a worthy goal. What do you think all this pre-testing is *for*? Also, it doesn't mean that since some imbalance is inevitable, a huge imbalance is just as acceptable as a small one.

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Now, what if you face an opponent with all + or ++ enhancements? If you dont have or cant afford them isnt that a "non skill based numerical boost to his abilities"?

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Of course it is. It's a non skill based numerical boost, whether I have it or not. The difference, obviously, is that it's an entirely different category of boost, which is not 'killer'.

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I'm not the one arguing for a handicap.

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No, you're the one who's apparently scared to fight without his HO crutch. If you consider yourself 'handicapped' without enhancements, then that does explain why you're raising such a fuss about other people having the *option* to remove their effect temporarily.

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I'll take on anyone, with any selection of powers and any slotting. If I lose, I lose. I'm not trying to make some mythical "even" playing field.

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It's not mythical, it's situational. The arena allows us to overcome differences in weight by choosing our options. If you're afraid to fight without your loot, that's fine, but just say so.

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You can try to turn that argument around, but the fact remains is that you gals and guys don't want to lose.

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I don't mind losing. Frankly, the person who doesn't want to lose is you. You are scared to fight on an even playing field, even if that playing field is only even because a temporary selection of options has made it so.

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You think that your skills are so great that ONLY if they would not have these HOs, I could win.

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That's a ridiculous thing to say before the first PvP blow has even been thrown. I might be able to beat you with HOs; I might not. But I would love to find out how much of a difference your HOs really make.

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Well, you can't.

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Prove it. Set aside your HOs for a bout or two and let's see.

Bottom line is this. I'm willing to fight you with or without HOs active. You're only willing to fight me with HOs active. Conclusion: you're scared to lose.

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You will never have a pvp fight based on pure skill. To get that you and your opponent would need to have the exact same powers/slots/enhancements/gaming experience.

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Wrong. You'd only need to face an opponent who was playing a class that was balanced (check) and which had the same options to expend slots (check).

The fact that *complete* balance can't be attained doesn't make balance any less of a worthy goal. What do you think all this pre-testing is *for*? Also, it doesn't mean that since some imbalance is inevitable, a huge imbalance is just as acceptable as a small one.

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I was addressing your 'pure skill' comment. Not balance. So youre reply doesnt apply. However, of course some balance will and wont exist reguardless of HO's. As an INV tank I expect to get my [censored] handed to me by Sonic attacks and END drainers. HO's are meaningless there aren't they? yup. Is this skill? nope.

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Now, what if you face an opponent with all + or ++ enhancements? If you dont have or cant afford them isnt that a "non skill based numerical boost to his abilities"?

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Of course it is. It's a non skill based numerical boost, whether I have it or not. The difference, obviously, is that it's an entirely different category of boost, which is not 'killer'.

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But, its still a non-skill boost. So, I'll ask you the question again. Would you PvP them? AND would you pvp people with Titan or Hydra SO's?

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I was addressing your 'pure skill' comment. Not balance.

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Balance is what allows skill to make the difference, as opposed to raw strength. That's the point. Okay, *pure* skill was something of an exaggeration, but you do understand the point, yes?

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So, I'll ask you the question again. Would you PvP them?

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Sure. Regular enhancements are balanced. They only affect one power at a time and they scale down with auto-exemping.

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AND would you pvp people with Titan or Hydra SO's?

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So long as they weren't afraid to fight without them as well as with them, then yes, sure. I don't respect any opponent who considers himself crippled without special enhancements. If I wanted to fight soft tissue cowering in an armoured shell, I'd go fight Nemesis.

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Bottom line is this. I'm willing to fight you with or without HOs active. You're only willing to fight me with HOs active. Conclusion: you're scared to lose.


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Whatever. Now you're making stuff up. What are you arguing for if you don't care if I have HOs or not? I'll fight you with no HOs, but in an official tournament, you better darn well believe I want every advantage I've EARNED! That's not cowardice. That's reward for the work I've put in.

I'm not changing my opinion and after your hundreds of posts, you aren't either. So whatever. However it works, I'll see you there.

My Position:
I do the things I do as hard as I can. I do them to win.
Anything that I can do, that lies within the rules and spirit of the competition, that will help me win, I will do.
I will choose a powerset, I will research it. I will level a character from 1-50. I will retire my main. I will keep track of who the major players and SG's of my server are. I will help my SG raid for loot, and when the open raids become the norm, I will go to every one that my schedule permits.

I will make sure I have as many respecs remaining as possible, and character slots open to build what is necessary if all my investment comes to naught.

I will put the best enhancements I can find in the slots in my powers. I will build my character for PvP. I will build my character to have HOs in his slots, as these save slots to let me use combinations of powers I could not otherwise.

I will learn every powerset, even if I do not play it. I will know what my foes powers do, and what they might do. I will practice with my team. I will have voicechat. I will test my character, and my skills, against everything I can find. The same for my teams.

I will be the best I can be. Period. Skill. Equipment. Practice. Training. Enhancements. Everything. There is a beauty to being the best you can be, even if it isnt the best there is. I dont expect to be the best there is. But I'm going to try.

If your not prepared to compete at that level, that is certainly your buisness. Your $15/month is the same as mine, and I hope you have as much or more fun than I do.

But if your not prepared to compete at that level, then don't come here asking the developers to wave their wands and make you my equal.

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By playing PvP on easy mode, you will never develop the skills necessary to deal with different situations.

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You don't want to give up your Hamidon enhancements even for one match because YOUR afraid to lose.

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You can try to turn that argument around, but the fact remains is that you gals and guys don't want to lose. You think that your skills are so great that ONLY if they would not have these HOs, I could win. Well, you can't.

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I don't care if I lose, as long as I at least had a shot at winning.

And having a shot at winning doesnt mean participating in large scale masochistic raiding.

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By playing PvP on easy mode, you will never develop the skills necessary to deal with different situations.

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Having Hamidon Origins IS easy mode.