And the Hamidon guy himself has another choice. Find another nonhamidon equipped sucker to fight to continue to rise through the ranks, or try to humiliate the same person again.
[ QUOTE ]
And the Hamidon guy himself has another choice. Find another nonhamidon equipped sucker to fight to continue to rise through the ranks, or try to humiliate the same person again.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no shame in defeat. If you feel humiliated by the loss to a superior opponent that's your problem, not mine or his.
And he has the same problem you do. How does he know who has them and who doesn't?
[quoteI'm not going to dissagree with anything you wrote (though in answer to your question, no I dont see anything wrong with profesionals playing amateur sports, but you will notice that very few do because of the lack of challenge) But I will make this comment: Do you realy think you as a self proclaimed amateur, who has spent less than 1/4 of the amount of time I've spent playing, are on equal footing? wouldn't someone who practices something everyday, out match someone who doesn't?
I have an unenhanced toon on test named Markus V8.3 and I would love to test your "equal footing" theory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great, I'll see you on there as Thermion. when you say unenhanced, do you mean no enhancements or SOs?
Oh, and, don't get me wrong. I fully expect to get stomped into the ground. I do hope to put up a good fight, but A) it's a fire tanker and therefore built for AoE PvE, and B) as you've pointed out, you have far more game time than I do. I don't mind losing to someone who's a better player. I mind losing to someone's equipment.
Also, I thought some more about the "I've spent a lot of time making my character the best he can be argument," and I'd like to say that's not entirely true. None of us have worked hard to make our characters the best they can be in the PvP arenas yet. We've been getting stuff that until very soon could only be used in a PvE setting. While some of the skills are similar, there's enough different there that I can see an argument that HOs should not perform in the fundamentally same manner. A similar analogy would be: I know how to drive very well. I have also built the very best NASCAR race car that I could, given the rules, time and money that I had available to me. I would like to compete in Formula One racing. I can take my skills, which will need to be modified a pretty fair amount based on the equipment I'm going to be using and the different rules involved in that style of racing, but I can't take my NASCAR car along. I'll have to use the Formula One cars provided instead.
As with all analogies, it's not entirely 1:1. If it were, it wouldn't be an analogy. But here's the thing: all the time that you've spent in PvE, past mastering the controls of your character, does not necessarily have to count towards your PvP skill or equipment. We're only assuming it does/should because that seems simplest. But the truth of it is that even the hardest PvE player, with 8 slots filled with level 50 characters, has already gotten out of the game something for the time they've put into it: massive PvE skills and HOs that work in PvE as far as the eye can see. Why should across-the-board uberness in one gamestyle automatically mean across-the-board uberness in another? Why should the amount of time you've put into the PvE content automatically mean your domination in the PvP arenas?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And the Hamidon guy himself has another choice. Find another nonhamidon equipped sucker to fight to continue to rise through the ranks, or try to humiliate the same person again.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no shame in defeat. If you feel humiliated by the loss to a superior opponent that's your problem, not mine or his.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but I don't really follow any of this "way of the warrior" mumbo jumbo stuff.
[ QUOTE ]
[quoteI'm not going to dissagree with anything you wrote (though in answer to your question, no I dont see anything wrong with profesionals playing amateur sports, but you will notice that very few do because of the lack of challenge) But I will make this comment: Do you realy think you as a self proclaimed amateur, who has spent less than 1/4 of the amount of time I've spent playing, are on equal footing? wouldn't someone who practices something everyday, out match someone who doesn't?
I have an unenhanced toon on test named Markus V8.3 and I would love to test your "equal footing" theory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great, I'll see you on there as Thermion. when you say unenhanced, do you mean no enhancements or SOs?
Oh, and, don't get me wrong. I fully expect to get stomped into the ground. I do hope to put up a good fight, but A) it's a fire tanker and therefore built for AoE PvE, and B) as you've pointed out, you have far more game time than I do. I don't mind losing to someone who's a better player. I mind losing to someone's equipment.
Also, I thought some more about the "I've spent a lot of time making my character the best he can be argument," and I'd like to say that's not entirely true. None of us have worked hard to make our characters the best they can be in the PvP arenas yet. We've been getting stuff that until very soon could only be used in a PvE setting. While some of the skills are similar, there's enough different there that I can see an argument that HOs should not perform in the fundamentally same manner. A similar analogy would be: I know how to drive very well. I have also built the very best NASCAR race car that I could, given the rules, time and money that I had available to me. I would like to compete in Formula One racing. I can take my skills, which will need to be modified a pretty fair amount based on the equipment I'm going to be using and the different rules involved in that style of racing, but I can't take my NASCAR car along. I'll have to use the Formula One cars provided instead.
As with all analogies, it's not entirely 1:1. If it were, it wouldn't be an analogy. But here's the thing: all the time that you've spent in PvE, past mastering the controls of your character, does not necessarily have to count towards your PvP skill or equipment. We're only assuming it does/should because that seems simplest. But the truth of it is that even the hardest PvE player, with 8 slots filled with level 50 characters, has already gotten out of the game something for the time they've put into it: massive PvE skills and HOs that work in PvE as far as the eye can see. Why should across-the-board uberness in one gamestyle automatically mean across-the-board uberness in another? Why should the amount of time you've put into the PvE content automatically mean your domination in the PvP arenas?
[/ QUOTE ]
Cool, I can unslot everything if you wish, but as it stands its all SO++.
I see what you're saying about pvp vs pve, but I still think someone who logged in more time has a better chance than someone who hasnt. If for no other reason than I have my binds and controls set perfectly and more practice using them.
But I guess we'll put it to the test right?
(oops bad pun sry)
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
And the Hamidon guy himself has another choice. Find another nonhamidon equipped sucker to fight to continue to rise through the ranks, or try to humiliate the same person again.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no shame in defeat. If you feel humiliated by the loss to a superior opponent that's your problem, not mine or his.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but I don't really follow any of this "way of the warrior" mumbo jumbo stuff.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothin to do with Warrior stuff. Has to do with a healthy emotional state.
Mr. Erik the alone......who's quote is: Jerk, Defeatist, Coward<--- My forum badges
[ QUOTE ]
Yes I see your point. But So what?
[/ QUOTE ]
So the defeat goes on his record, and his rank drops accordingly.
UNLESS.
wait a minute. maybe this is what the mysterious post earlier on was about.
Maybe not all fights will *be* ranked? Maybe you can choose to just have a 'friendly' before you actually play for points?
That would... well. It would make quite a difference. I don't care overmuch if someone pwnz my stormy self a dozen times over, HOs or not, if the fight isn't actually *counting* for anything.
Oh gawd, I'm such a dork. Of *course* they will be letting us have friendly matches that don't contribute to the ranking. How else are supergroup members supposed to train against one another? How else would the RPers be able to have their IC spats?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And the Hamidon guy himself has another choice. Find another nonhamidon equipped sucker to fight to continue to rise through the ranks, or try to humiliate the same person again.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no shame in defeat. If you feel humiliated by the loss to a superior opponent that's your problem, not mine or his.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but I don't really follow any of this "way of the warrior" mumbo jumbo stuff.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothin to do with Warrior stuff. Has to do with a healthy emotional state.
Mr. Erik the alone......who's quote is: Jerk, Defeatist, Coward<--- My forum badges
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh, yeah eveyone can see my signature. Not really any reason to point it out right?
Anyways, yes, there can be humiliation in defeat.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes I see your point. But So what?
[/ QUOTE ]
So the defeat goes on his record, and his rank drops accordingly.
UNLESS.
wait a minute. maybe this is what the mysterious post earlier on was about.
Maybe not all fights will *be* ranked? Maybe you can choose to just have a 'friendly' before you actually play for points?
That would... well. It would make quite a difference. I don't care overmuch if someone pwnz my stormy self a dozen times over, HOs or not, if the fight isn't actually *counting* for anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah That is a big difference between us, rank doesn't concern me at all, I play and dont generaly pay attentention to ranks or ratings, I want to win , but each event is personal and I try and learn from mistakes. But as you say if they could have both ranked and not rank bouts I'm sure it would pls everyone and solve a lot of problems.
[ QUOTE ]
Ah That is a big difference between us, rank doesn't concern me at all,
[/ QUOTE ]
It only concerns me in so far as as I don't want some bozo earning 'bragging rights' because he pulled out a metaphorical howitzer. 
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Ah That is a big difference between us, rank doesn't concern me at all,
[/ QUOTE ]
It only concerns me in so far as as I don't want some bozo earning 'bragging rights' because he pulled out a metaphorical howitzer.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL 
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at best they will improve an existing enh by 15% thats enough for flavor but thats it.
[/ QUOTE ]
O_O
sir, with respect - please check your facts!
[/ QUOTE ]
I was just looking at individual Dam and not taking into accout the 12 slotting issue. But even including that and all the numbers I've seen, I dont think it warrants this much panic. However, I have fully sloted (almost) and non slotted toons on test, and my opinion of this whole situation may change depending on how bad/good the results are.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not the guy I'd be worried about, honestly. If someone slots entirely for damage, that's a very showy win, but extremely obvious. I'll know to avoid the guy again, since I just cannot keep up the damage output he can. If a blaster hits me from somewhere in Nebraska, I'll know he went with 6 slotted Dmg/Range HOs, and, again, I'll know it almost immediately. But what about something more clever? What about a very smartly and subtly built Inv/EM flying tanker?
Rather than six slot Dmg/Acc, 4 slot Dmg/Acc, 1 slot HO Rch reducer and 1 slot HO End reducer. Then 4 slot Hasten with Rch Reducer and 3 slot Build Up with it, along with 6 slotted Conserve Power (Rch) and only 4 slots in Unyielding (End/DamRes) and one each in TI and RPD, plus 4 each in REl and REn. That's an 8 slot savings while still more effective than the character was previously. This, of course, translates into more six-slotted attacks. Pretty much at will, the character can fire off Build Up to almost reach the damage cap, but if they use the ability sparing, it won't be noticeable. Their attacks, normally, will come up a little faster and use a little less end, but not so most players would notice in the middle of a match.
At the end of the match, the "beaten" opponent might have a hunch that they lost because of something besides fighting skill, but nothing they can really put their finger on, and certainly nothing they can call the person reliably on. An ice tanker, because they are so defense based, might be able to figure it out after a match or two where they were almost never missed, but another tanker, a scrapper (even SR) or just about any other class, might never catch on. And the ganker will continue to get away with it, claiming no HOs at all, and even losing to more spectacularly-slotted players so that they can show that they aren't HO slotted. Thus they can continue to grief players repeatedly, and the other players will even thnak them for a good game as they blatantly cheat, assuming they lie about their slotting to their opponents, which is the whole point of this build.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind losing to someone who's a better player. I mind losing to someone's equipment.
[/ QUOTE ]
And when you cut through all this bushido BS that's the problem right there. And a problem that goes against the very core concept and the big selling pont of coh, it's a game for the casual gamer.
It's a game where we were told we can log in for a couple, do some missions, and we'll still be making progress, it's a game where you didn't have to devote every undying hour keeping up with your crafting, your raids, your camping that special mob for your phat lewt, and have a guild from hell behind you to keep up with everyone else.
I bought coh to get away from the very "hardcore" time sink crap that seems to be praised as what keeps a game alive. As I'll wager a lot of people did who were sick of the EQ and WoW loot/craft/raid mentality, and if things keep going as is will I stay?
BZZT WRONG!
If coh goes that route I won't hang around to play EQ in tights, I don't camp, don't raid, don't farm, and if that automatically is going to disqualify me like it did in EQ, daoc, and swg, because I didn't have the resources to keep up (specially with pvp in the latter 2) Then I won't bother playing because there's no damn point. and when cov comes out there will persist in being no point, as HO'ed heroes go tearing through the pvp in that as well. I'll spend the 15 a month elsewhere thanks.
But I didn't put in the work you say, so i should be lesser right? BULL**** That's not work, the only thing your vaunted work shows is you have the patience to sit through a slide show 24/7 to farm and camp one mob for an item that's not even related to the skill level of your toon or you. If that's your idea of fun more power to you, cause it sure as hell aint mine. But again to say that players should be rewarded for the very thing coh again tries to discourage (items, farming, and camping) and it needs more of that rather then less just shows one thing, you've got more time on your hands then me, not that you worked any harder.
We both work to get to 50, that's real work, farming and clicking a button every few minutes isn't, that's just stupid. And the fact that i'm being told now that I need to adopt a powergamer mentality for the last 5 levels of my casual game really goes against the grain.
And all it takes is skill to beat the HO user? Again BULL****
Tell ya what chief, if you think skill is all it takes, take your toon solo, a squishy not a scrapper or tank, walk up to antimatter, and try to solo him.
Now that you've just been royally beaten into the ground 5 seconds later if not outright one shotted, tell me this, how do you think back on the loss, and prepare for a second match with him?
answer? You CAN'T. If you're at your max ability (green SO's) and you get whammed down by someone who has more shiny equipment then you (HO are's not work or skill they are equipment period) Then you can't train, you can't prepare, you can't do jack. There's no way to win when by the time my defender finishes her first debuff animation that blaster with 300% damage thanks to HO's and 400% cap with build up has just 2 shotted me.
In reality you could work out, you can train, you can develop yourself, in coh we're limited by the numbers though, that's as high as we can go, and the numbers clearly show "HO for teh win!" as it stands right now.
As with AV's there's no amount of skill that can save you from a one shot, your only choice when someone has a bigger gun, and no amount of training can keep you from dodging the bullet, is to get the same gun he has to level the field. which means being forced to do just as much farming, or you may as well not bother trying again.
Oh and there's no honor in fighting a battle when the outcome is decided before the fight even begins, that's suicide plain and simple.
No thanks, I'll pass if that's what pvp does bcome.
[ QUOTE ]
No thanks, I'll pass if that's what pvp does bcome.
[/ QUOTE ]
This the point I keep trying to bring up - going by previous MMOs many players will take the no-thank-you choice if PvP takes on the stink of farm-for-the-win.
They don't think: "He's got lots better equipment... this will be a fun challenge!"
They don't think: "Last 3 guys won because they had uber equipment... maybe the 4th won't!"
They think: "This is pointless, this is no fun... to hell with it!"
Usually PvP becomes a side-line feature - played by the hardcore, skipped by the masses. I just don't see how CoV can be successful if it's core feature, PvP, becomes viewed as not-for-me by a large chunk of the player base.
And that seems to be right where we're heading, judging by previous MMOs that have fallen into this *exact* pit.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind losing to someone who's a better player. I mind losing to someone's equipment.
[/ QUOTE ]
And when you cut through all this Bushido BS that's the problem right there. And a problem that goes against the very core concept and the big selling pont of coh, it's a game for the casual gamer.
It's a game where we were told we can log in for a couple, do some missions, and we'll still be making progress, it's a game where you didn't have to devote every undying hour keeping up with your crafting, your raids, your camping that special mob for your phat lewt, and have a guild from hell behind you to keep up with everyone else.
I bought coh to get away from the very "hardcore" time sink crap that seems to be praised as what keeps a game alive. As I'll wager a lot of people did who were sick of the EQ and WoW loot/craft/raid mentality, and if things keep going as is will I stay?
BZZT WRONG!
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually It detracts from you in no way. You can play this game anyway you want. In fact i have several toons that I have no plans for other than going through the material slowly with my brother and having some fun PVP with him.
[ QUOTE ]
If coh goes that route I won't hang around to play EQ in tights, I don't camp, don't raid, don't farm, and if that automatically is going to disqualify me like it did in EQ, daoc, and swg, because I didn't have the resources to keep up (specially with pvp in the latter 2) Then I won't bother playing because there's no damn point. and when cov comes out there will persist in being no point, as HO'ed heroes go tearing through the pvp in that as well. I'll spend the 15 a month elsewhere thanks.
But I didn't put in the work you say, so i should be lesser right? BULL**** That's not work, the only thing your vaunted work shows is you have the patience to sit through a slide show 24/7 to farm and camp one mob for an item that's not even related to the skill level of your toon or you. If that's your idea of fun more power to you, cause it sure as hell aint mine. But again to say that players should be rewarded for the very thing coh again tries to discourage (items, farming, and camping) and it needs more of that rather then less just shows one thing, you've got more time on your hands then me, not that you worked any harder.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK I was heavily involved with coming up with the strategies that eventually brought down Hamidon, that took a lot of work, planning and effort, not to mention organizational skills. If you choose not to get accolades or get HO's that doesn't make you lesser, it doesn't make you anything. It's your choice. But don't begrudge someone else who wanted the extra little bits the game had to offer and went for it. It just means they were more interested in some aspects of the game than you and benefited from it. That has no effect on you.
[ QUOTE ]
We both work to get to 50, that's real work, farming and clicking a button every few minutes isn't, that's just stupid. And the fact that i'm being told now that I need to adopt a powergamer mentality for the last 5 levels of my casual game really goes against the grain.
And all it takes is skill to beat the HO user? Again BULL****
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe you should try organizing/participating in these raids before you judge them on hearsay? I have a blast at the raids I have a fun SG with great members, We do try and use many different tactics, and the biggest skill we use is working as a team......but you don't exactly sound like a team player....
[ QUOTE ]
Tell ya what chief, if you think skill is all it takes, take your toon solo, a squishy not a scrapper or tank, walk up to antimatter, and try to solo him.
Now that you've just been royally beaten into the ground 5 seconds later if not outright one shotted, tell me this, how do you think back on the loss, and prepare for a second match with him?
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually my 1st combat with him and a team was a loss, then we beat him, Recently I soloed him to a draw, and I am a Blaster. I think that If I can change the terrain a little more, I have a good chance of beating him. (it make take a few tries....)
[ QUOTE ]
answer? You CAN'T. If you're at your max ability (green SO's) and you get whammed down by someone who has more shiny equipment then you (HO are's not work or skill they are equipment period) Then you can't train, you can't prepare, you can't do jack. There's no way to win when by the time my defender finishes her first debuff animation that blaster with 300% damage thanks to HO's and 400% cap with build up has just 2 shotted me.
As with AV's there's no amount of skill that can save you from a one shot, your only choice when someone has a bigger gun, and no amount of training can keep you from dodging the bullet, is to get the same gun he has to level the field. which means being forced to do just as much farming, or you may as well not bother trying again.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a ton of things you can do to lv the playing field, some of the common ones are good use of terrain, and movement powers, and plan ahead with Inspirations.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and there's no honor in fighting a battle when the outcome is decided before the fight even begins, that's suicide plain and simple.
[/ QUOTE ]
Never been one to care for honor or Bushido, (I like Aikido and believe in some of the mandates but I certainly don't follow any one path) But sometimes it is necessary to take the hit to learn something, or lull someone into false confidence. Many tricks can be pulled off if you let yourself lose once or twice 1st
[ QUOTE ]
No thanks, I'll pass if that's what pvp does bcome.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lots of negativity in your post. If this game isn't what you like thats cool but be sure to judge it for what it is and not what you heard it might be. I really think there's is room in this game for all types of players. (Even the grumpy ones 
)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind losing to someone who's a better player. I mind losing to someone's equipment.
[/ QUOTE ]
And when you cut through all this Bushido BS that's the problem right there. And a problem that goes against the very core concept and the big selling pont of coh, it's a game for the casual gamer.
It's a game where we were told we can log in for a couple, do some missions, and we'll still be making progress, it's a game where you didn't have to devote every undying hour keeping up with your crafting, your raids, your camping that special mob for your phat lewt, and have a guild from hell behind you to keep up with everyone else.
I bought coh to get away from the very "hardcore" time sink crap that seems to be praised as what keeps a game alive. As I'll wager a lot of people did who were sick of the EQ and WoW loot/craft/raid mentality, and if things keep going as is will I stay?
BZZT WRONG!
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually It detracts from you in no way. You can play this game anyway you want. In fact i have several toons that I have no plans for other than going through the material slowly with my brother and having some fun PVP with him.
[ QUOTE ]
If coh goes that route I won't hang around to play EQ in tights, I don't camp, don't raid, don't farm, and if that automatically is going to disqualify me like it did in EQ, daoc, and swg, because I didn't have the resources to keep up (specially with pvp in the latter 2) Then I won't bother playing because there's no damn point. and when cov comes out there will persist in being no point, as HO'ed heroes go tearing through the pvp in that as well. I'll spend the 15 a month elsewhere thanks.
But I didn't put in the work you say, so i should be lesser right? BULL**** That's not work, the only thing your vaunted work shows is you have the patience to sit through a slide show 24/7 to farm and camp one mob for an item that's not even related to the skill level of your toon or you. If that's your idea of fun more power to you, cause it sure as hell aint mine. But again to say that players should be rewarded for the very thing coh again tries to discourage (items, farming, and camping) and it needs more of that rather then less just shows one thing, you've got more time on your hands then me, not that you worked any harder.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK I was heavily involved with coming up with the strategies that eventually brought down Hamidon, that took a lot of work, planning and effort, not to mention organizational skills. If you choose not to get accolades or get HO's that doesn't make you lesser, it doesn't make you anything. It's your choice. But don't begrudge someone else who wanted the extra little bits the game had to offer and went for it. It just means they were more interested in some aspects of the game than you and benefited from it. That has no effect on you.
[ QUOTE ]
We both work to get to 50, that's real work, farming and clicking a button every few minutes isn't, that's just stupid. And the fact that i'm being told now that I need to adopt a powergamer mentality for the last 5 levels of my casual game really goes against the grain.
And all it takes is skill to beat the HO user? Again BULL****
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe you should try organizing/participating in these raids before you judge them on hearsay? I have a blast at the raids I have a fun SG with great members, We do try and use many different tactics, and the biggest skill we use is working as a team......but you don't exactly sound like a team player....
[ QUOTE ]
Tell ya what chief, if you think skill is all it takes, take your toon solo, a squishy not a scrapper or tank, walk up to antimatter, and try to solo him.
Now that you've just been royally beaten into the ground 5 seconds later if not outright one shotted, tell me this, how do you think back on the loss, and prepare for a second match with him?
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually my 1st combat with him and a team was a loss, then we beat him, Recently I soloed him to a draw, and I am a Blaster. I think that If I can change the terrain a little more, I have a good chance of beating him. (it make take a few tries....)
[ QUOTE ]
answer? You CAN'T. If you're at your max ability (green SO's) and you get whammed down by someone who has more shiny equipment then you (HO are's not work or skill they are equipment period) Then you can't train, you can't prepare, you can't do jack. There's no way to win when by the time my defender finishes her first debuff animation that blaster with 300% damage thanks to HO's and 400% cap with build up has just 2 shotted me.
As with AV's there's no amount of skill that can save you from a one shot, your only choice when someone has a bigger gun, and no amount of training can keep you from dodging the bullet, is to get the same gun he has to level the field. which means being forced to do just as much farming, or you may as well not bother trying again.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a ton of things you can do to lv the playing field, some of the common ones are good use of terrain, and movement powers, and plan ahead with Inspirations.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and there's no honor in fighting a battle when the outcome is decided before the fight even begins, that's suicide plain and simple.
[/ QUOTE ]
Never been one to care for honor or Bushido, (I like Aikido and believe in some of the mandates but I certainly don't follow any one path) But sometimes it is necessary to take the hit to learn something, or lull someone into false confidence. Many tricks can be pulled off if you let yourself lose once or twice 1st
[ QUOTE ]
No thanks, I'll pass if that's what pvp does bcome.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lots of negativity in your post. If this game isn't what you like thats cool but be sure to judge it for what it is and not what you heard it might be. I really think there's is room in this game for all types of players. (Even the grumpy ones )
[/ QUOTE ]
You said that people farming HO's and becoming stupid powerful doesnt effect us?
We can play the game anyway we want?
Actually, it effects us greatly.
See, for me, I've been playing my character since August of '04, he's now lvl 47.
I don't care if people powerlevel, (I do care about the annoying tells! and the misleading teaming, BIG TIME!), but I have a huge problem with the fact that if I step into the arena, and get wiped by a powerleveled toon, who just happens to be part of a hami SG clic, I will be very pissed.
If you beat me with skill, no problem, good match!
In other words, this does effect the game, and no, we can't play this game any way we want.
I want PvP, been looking forward to it since I started this game, and now, because of this unfair, tedious loot (which I choose not to take part), all of my SKILL and ABILTY will be meaningless.
This is ruining the game. There's no question about this.
The dev's need to find a way to have ALL HO's become SO's of choice in the arena, or some other way to make them more accessable, besides a boring 3 hour chore.
I have done 2 Hamidon raids, and can say they absolutely stink!
Not only does this take ZERO skill, but its drawn out, its laggy and besides, hamidon is not even a fun foe to fight.
I want to step into the arena, have a level battle ground, and may the best HERO win.
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at best they will improve an existing enh by 15% thats enough for flavor but thats it.
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O_O
sir, with respect - please check your facts!
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I was just looking at individual Dam and not taking into accout the 12 slotting issue. But even including that and all the numbers I've seen, I dont think it warrants this much panic. However, I have fully sloted (almost) and non slotted toons on test, and my opinion of this whole situation may change depending on how bad/good the results are.
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Regular SOs contribute 33% to a single aspect of your power. HOs contribute 50% to two aspects of your power, or 30% to three aspects. Where you come up with 15%, I have no idea. Adding 50% to damage and 50% to range versus adding 33% to damage is not a 15% improvement. 6 slotted, the power will have a 300% improvement to damage and range, versus a 200% improvement to damage and no improvement to range on a SO'd hero.
OK, I have a couple of questions:
1) Why are there "Private SG Only" raids...especially on Justice server? People are actually asked to leave so others can enjoy themselves more. I guess some $15 dollars a month is worth more than others.
2) If to fully slot your toon with HO requires a few raids, this is before Hami Patch, what other purpose would you have other than to try and dominate PvP. I mean your so close to 50, are these enhancements that much of a help. If you already are 50, and you consider this end game content, then why fully slot your toon with HO's, you have already beat everything with your SOs?
Anyone one that says he fully slotted his toon with HOs cuz that is the only thing left to do at the end of the game is full of it. They would never have done so many raids if HOs were not allowed in the arena.
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I see whiney people
This game is based upon a simple principle Risk .vs Reward.
If you are unable / willing to overcome the risk, you don't get the reward.
Recieving a Hamidon enhancement (reward), means that you overcame some risk.
Sure they are becoming more common place, but that does not mean that they are less valuable, nor that they should become that way.
Instituting any policy that reduces the return on investment spent on obtaining a reward changes the basic precept City of Heroes is based upon. This game is not based upon the principle of Risk .vs Reward(minus reward value difference of common reward)
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Yes, I agree, all those 50s that reached their debt cap are gonna have a really tough time getting to 51. Honestly, how do they deal with all that pressure?
Dragonkat, I have disagreed with almost everything else you've had to say on the boards, but for this post you just made I gave you 5 stars. Well said.
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If this game isn't what you like thats cool but be sure to judge it for what it is and not what you heard it might be. I really think there's is room in this game for all types of players.
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And there's even room for all types of players in PvP - if they have HO's.
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Ayone can beat anyone else if you use the right tactics. It may be harder in some cases but it's still possible.
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Actually, no you can't. This glass is half full nonsense always falls flat in the face of hard reality.
I bring up again an instance when I came across a remnant in steel canyon of somone's ambush, a tree of life which was around 15 or so levels above me. NO MATTER WHAT I DID, when I eventually managed to land a blow it healed it in a second.
This is what I fear from Hamidon equipped players.
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But now having learned from your "experiences" you can beat them right?
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Sorry dude. the numbers don't add up here. Hami-O's give you better numbers....Stack the amount you have (all), with the amount I have (zero), and you will beat me every single time.
Still..if you want to wait and see when it comes out, I'm game. But You vs. Hellfire or you vs the Almighty Fist would still result in the same...
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I was just talking to my brother about this (he is a AAA rated competitive fencer) And he changed my mind, If your going to go into competitions, you do have to take a risk.
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Of course you do. That's the thrill of it.
But there's also the point that you should be able to choose how MUCH risk you are willing to face. Your brother doesn't go into fencing bouts on the understanding that his opponent might have a howitzer.
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LOL I dont think thats a fair comparison, but lets say he did go and discover he was facing a howitzer, he then has the choice, do I yield or give it a go. No one is forcing him to choose one way or the other. Taking the risk of facing a superior opponent is also part of the chalenge and fun
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He KNOWS he's facing a howitzer...I have no IDEA how many Hami-O's you have
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OK, I have a couple of questions:
1) Why are there "Private SG Only" raids...especially on Justice server? People are actually asked to leave so others can enjoy themselves more. I guess some $15 dollars a month is worth more than others.
2) If to fully slot your toon with HO requires a few raids, this is before Hami Patch, what other purpose would you have other than to try and dominate PvP. I mean your so close to 50, are these enhancements that much of a help. If you already are 50, and you consider this end game content, then why fully slot your toon with HO's, you have already beat everything with your SOs?
Anyone one that says he fully slotted his toon with HOs cuz that is the only thing left to do at the end of the game is full of it. They would never have done so many raids if HOs were not allowed in the arena.
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I've said it before, I have a really great time donig the Hami event (and I've done 20+). Anyone complaning about how they don't like it, don't have to do it. But then thay shouldn't complain about others who receive the awards for doing it.
I think I'm starting to repeat myself here so this is my last post on this topic, but to some up.
You have a choice.
-Choice to fight someone with HamiO's
-Choice to get HamiO's or not
-Choice to avoid PvP all together
-choice to only do PvP in your SG or with friends.
So anyway I choose to enjoy this game should be of minimal effect to you. (With the exception of Syxxblade who is my RL friend, and who's [censored] I now have to kick both with HamiO's and without on test.)
Enjoy the game, if you're not willing to play an extreme amount of time, don't be mad that there are people who do. It's OK, It's just a game.
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LOL I dont think thats a fair comparison, but lets say he did go and discover he was facing a howitzer, he then has the choice, do I yield or give it a go.
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But he's already agreed to the bout, and the first thing he knew of the howitzer's existence would be when it hit him. Game over, man, game over.
See what I'm driving at? Without some way to either disable HOs temporarily or detect their presence in advance of agreeing to a fight, the first thing you notice will be the ungodly amounts of damage you are taking, following which it's too *late* to choose not to go through with it.
Yes, I admit that's a worst-case scenario, and the majority of PvPers won't have a full gun case full of HOs, but I think you see my point.
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Yes I see your point. But So what?
Who cares if you go into a fight and lose right away?
You learned at least 2 things, 1 this guy is slotting HO's, and
2, how long you can last unprepared against it.
Now you have the choice to chalenge him again, only better prepared, or move on to someone elase.
easy.