The only thing really wrong with controllers is THE GAME ISN'T HARD ENOUGH.
and if they make the game harder, every other AT will cry NERF or BUT YOU SAID WE COULD SOLO.
therefor, I'll martyr my AT and accept things as they are.
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Thanks for all of your suggestions in the Dev Corner. I've noted them all down for analysis.
There's no immediate deadline for changes Archetype wide, though individual power sets might need attention sooner. I just wanted to say that nothing at the moment is set in stone.
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For those who have not been with COH long enough, let me provide a detailed analysis of the "between the lines" meanings of what Statesman just said. 
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here's no immediate deadline for changes Archetype wide,
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"we will be changing all the controller archetypes by reversing your powersets. Pets will be first, and your single holds etc, will be last. Also, Mind will now have a 3*duration on all its affects."
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though individual power sets might need attention sooner.
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"Fire controllers will now be getting Nova as their second power in there set, and devices as their secondary set. Ice will be getting brawl as their ninth power."
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I just wanted to say that nothing at the moment is set in stone
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"Geko will be installing these changes next week, then the entirety of the coding staff will be on extended sabatical to Tibet for a month after that. Enjoy!"
(Btw, joking)
Oh great here comes the nerf bat. Boost the other controllers up, im fine with that. I am just tired of all this extreme nerfing. Yes i am a fire controller, yes i even think they could be looked at. The only thing that needs to be looked at is there HP. They have more than the stone pets and those are suppose to be a tanker class pets. Kaosu is my fav character and really the only one i enjoy playing on. I sure hope it doesnt get ruined. They have already been nerfed twice as i know of, what else can you do to them?
As one with a 38 Controller I think you all need to CHILL and let the devs do their job...
All I hear is selfish whining. The big picture is what counts and the devs can see that much better than you or I can.
And for you pure gamers out there... remember... The GM sets the rules and runs the world as s/he thinks they should go. If you don't like it that much, you can quit. There will be more players...
Thank you devs for all your work on a fabulous game!!
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LOL, perhaps I am just a cynic at heart but I remember how the Tanker changes came about. Don't praise before you hear their intentions. ;P
Tankers begged for the devs to take a look at their class some of the more vocal folks got them to do it. And we all know that it took a good long while before the smoke cleared from that firing line.
I certainly hope the controller changes go smoother, but Fire and Illusion players had better see the writing on the wall.
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Hah. Good point. Hate to tell you folks, but right now, while the Summoner AT's are a bit lacking pre-32, the post-32 game is definite Nerf fodder I'm afraid, certainly a possibility for the Fire & Illusion pets. I've played alongside them quite a bit, and I think it's been around 2 levels since I've seen my friend's Ill/Kin take any damage personally (an exaggeration, but not by much).
Furthermore, any build that regularly posts it's 'How to Solo each AV at +2 lvls' on every board they find really should expect a good hard nerfing as the cost of their bragging rights. I'm not calling for it, or even advocating it - I'm just warning that it's fairly likely that fire and illusion should expect some significant 'trade offs' for whatever beneficial changes they get in their pre-32 power sets. 
Me? I'm MC. While in some respects I actually feel the set is nearly overpowered itself (I turn massive battles into passive still-life scenery on a grand scale...), it has the lowest DPS in the game and it's so hard to play that it is quite rare. I'll be surprised if anything significant occurs at my end of the spectrum. Basically a whole different AT from the rest in any case, w/o the pet. Please Statesman - no pets for MC... I prefer active and (arguably) intelligent teammates.
Actually Fire Controllers have had 3 nerfs so far. One, right after live, we got one less pet possible. Two, they got changed into pets - which lessened damage - mixed bag though as HP and ACC improved. The last one is less important but Smoke got the crap kicked out of it. Used to be a decent debuff - nowhere near SG despite what the devs said - and now its good for stealth - about it. I still have it and it has its uses but generally we lost a good non-control, control power - something that would work regardless of mob mez protection.
What else can they do? I am expecting one of the maximum pets to drop off again. I am expecting a damage decrease, yet again. And once they add pets using elevators and portals, I expect them to increase RCH time so we cant have as many sets out.
And man, I am tired of nerfs. Oddly enough, with alt-itis, I have never had a FOTM class that reached full maturity prior to the nerf... every alt I have - even those nerfed previously - are more than playable, so I still have some faith, but I get tired of this:
Issue X coming -> Oh goody, what's getting nerfed this go around? 
I really wish States would drop the damned 1 boss > 1 player and 3 minions = 1 player mantras. In the end, its going to ruin alot of the fun factor of this game.
Um yea this is not a good thing........ just ask a tanker.
Thanks for the response Statesman.
You don't hit smiling monsters - Sister Flame
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As one with a 38 Controller I think you all need to CHILL and let the devs do their job...
All I hear is selfish whining. The big picture is what counts and the devs can see that much better than you or I can.
And for you pure gamers out there... remember... The GM sets the rules and runs the world as s/he thinks they should go. If you don't like it that much, you can quit. There will be more players...
Thank you devs for all your work on a fabulous game!!
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I believe I stated my concerns quite maturely and succinctly, and without whining. But they are just that: concerns. Many people have been very disappointed by previous updates, and there is no evidence that these changes will (or will not) be any different. As stating my opinions HELPS the devs understand their consumers, and therefore HELPS them get more business, I don't understand how anyone could think that doing so is a bad thing for them! I don't think it's smart to stick my head in the sand and pretend everything will be all right this time. They have done a lot right in this game, which is why it's so fun, but they have also made some mistakes. Some have been rolled back, but some haven't. I don't want to see some of the characters I have spent many hours working on become un-fun just as things are getting good!
Also, I absolutely hate the trump card that people who don't want to hear other people's opinions use: "If you don't like it, just quit." Most of all, it's obvious. I will quit if the game becomes un-fun. But doing that hurts everyone: I don't get to play a fun game anymore, the company doesn't make as much money (I'm sure I won't be the only one quitting if things get stinky enough for me to quit!), and the game becomes less populated (nobody likes playing in a MMOG ghost town). I'm not saying everyone should bow and scrape to me for me to be happy or else, nor do I think I speak for EVERYONE. I'm just voicing my opinion along with other people here so the devs can hopefully make better informed decisions. Again, I want the game to succeed so everyone can be happy!
For my last post, I was 1-starred by 1 or more people. I can't believe how far in the sand (or elsewhere) some people's heads are! *la la la la I can't hear you!*
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I certainly hope the controller changes go smoother, but Fire and Illusion players had better see the writing on the wall.
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I don't know where you have been but illusion/fire has already been looked over many times and we already have had a couple of changes. Pets, powers etc.
People want the other sets to be looked at, so they can be in par damage wise similar to illusion and fire after lvl 32, and more damage pre lvl 32.
Its the pre lvl 32 that people are concerened about with controllers, and how our role against AVs, and monsters.
Stop beating the dead horse about illusion/fire.
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Oh great here comes the nerf bat. Boost the other controllers up, im fine with that. I am just tired of all this extreme nerfing. Yes i am a fire controller, yes i even think they could be looked at. The only thing that needs to be looked at is there HP. They have more than the stone pets and those are suppose to be a tanker class pets. Kaosu is my fav character and really the only one i enjoy playing on. I sure hope it doesnt get ruined. They have already been nerfed twice as i know of, what else can you do to them?
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Well, I hope they do NOT nerf you. I'm a mind contrller. A poor schlep mind controller. My first toon. I'm frsutrated as hell, and really in awe at what fire controllers can do. I wish I could do half te damage you do.
I just don't want to get there by the devs reducing your damage!!!!!!!!
Most of the suggestions for mind controllers (conspicuously given by ppl that don't have on) amounted to "improve this, but weaken that", which of course, is a net ZERO. I don't know why the world wants us to suck.
Thanks to everyone who did ask for help for us.
I'm crossing my fingers that the devs finda way to help me, and NOT hurt other controllers.
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As one with a 38 Controller I think you all need to CHILL and let the devs do their job...
All I hear is selfish whining. The big picture is what counts and the devs can see that much better than you or I can.
And for you pure gamers out there... remember... The GM sets the rules and runs the world as s/he thinks they should go. If you don't like it that much, you can quit. There will be more players...
Thank you devs for all your work on a fabulous game!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sick and tired of posts like this one.
The devs are people, just like us. They don't have any magic, or any super-special insight that no one else has.
Is the game great? Sure.
But we don't play the game to honor some mystical "vision" that they may or may not have. We play to have fun. The devs are in BUSINESS. The most successful businesses are ones that are responsive to their customer base, and that have a customer base that gives constructive feedback, not idol worship and sycophantry.
I'm certainly willing to sit back, not freak, and give the devs the chance to DO THEIR JOBS. If they do a good job, I will be the first one to come here and sing their praises. But if they don't, I'll be here, as a paying customer, expressing my discontent, and hoping that they fix the "fix"; at least on that they have a decent track record.
I think Fire and Illusion are FIne as is. But I think the others can use a good look at. One of the reasons some controller sets are not chosen is cause they have powers whitch can be broken out of if attacked. THat means any team with a Blaster or any AOE Scrapper/Tanker or a Storrm Defender will sabotage their Efforts. THis Applies to Ice, Earth, and Mind Controllers. Gravity is in my opinion Misunderstood. Having teamed with several I can say it is a good set. Although I think Dimension shift can use some love as can Lift and Propell since their pets dont do mutch damage, but overall I would play it as is.
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all of your suggestions in the Dev Corner. I've noted them all down for analysis.
There's no immediate deadline for changes Archetype wide, though individual power sets might need attention sooner. I just wanted to say that nothing at the moment is set in stone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you
Please tell us the conclusion when analysis is done on powers or AT.
I have nothing but optimism for these vaguely announced changes. Why? Because there is nothing they can do to make my Mind Controller any worse. It can only get better from here.
Personally, I find increasing the effectivness of controllers before 32 a good idea, but that doesnt mean I like the idea of fixing/nerfing/whatever-you-want-to-call-it the post-32 game for the fire/ill/anyone else affected. Yes, I have an Ill/Kin controller, but he was made well before they became a FOTM. But then again, I'll just wait around and see what the future holds for controllers, and hope they wont get hit too hard.
Well, this Grav controller is very pleased to hear that the controllers are getting looked at. Some of us could really use the help.
As for Illusion and fire, you are overpowered by a large degree over the rest of us. You know it as well as everyone else who plays this game. If that means all they do is raise some of the rest of us up and leave you guys alone, great. But if that means they feel it necessary to nerf a bit to help even things out, well thats just how these things have to go sometimes.
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But we don't play the game to honor some mystical "vision" that they may or may not have. We play to have fun. The devs are in BUSINESS. The most successful businesses are ones that are responsive to their customer base, and that have a customer base that gives constructive feedback, not idol worship and sycophantry.
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Ya know you wouldn't even have a game to play if it weren't for the "vision" you mention... The superhero genre game has been something MANY companies have talked about and promised and never delivered... Cryptic finally gives us something the superhero fan can enjoy and love and from the sheer amount of direct involvement from the devs it's obvious to me that these people are also comic fans and interested in providing a game that is enjoyable...
You can't tell me there isn't a vision that provides the foundation for this whole thing. And I would rather the devs stay true to that than scrap it because the fire controller is afraid he'll lose his ability to solo the whole zone... (maybe a slight exaggeration but it's frustrating when you're buffing up and the imps mow through the mobs you were eyeing - and mow is NOT an exaggeration)
Games go through many tweaks over their life span and it's rough when you've learned to play the game a certain way and forced to change... Change isn't always bad... and a game like this can be fun regardless...
jmo
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But we don't play the game to honor some mystical "vision" that they may or may not have. We play to have fun. The devs are in BUSINESS. The most successful businesses are ones that are responsive to their customer base, and that have a customer base that gives constructive feedback, not idol worship and sycophantry.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ya know you wouldn't even have a game to play if it weren't for the "vision" you mention... The superhero genre game has been something MANY companies have talked about and promised and never delivered... Cryptic finally gives us something the superhero fan can enjoy and love and from the sheer amount of direct involvement from the devs it's obvious to me that these people are also comic fans and interested in providing a game that is enjoyable...
[/ QUOTE ]
Then I would play something else.
And yuo sem to have me confused wtih something else. I 'm ASKING for chance.
Since the thread has been locked for a while, did you jump over to Thread #2?
I am glad we got a little something out of States, as small as that was. However, I really hope he doesn't think that little "hello, how are ya" is a good enough public response to the controller thread so he can go off and make changes. Before ANYTHING gets changed, States needs to take a list of proposed changes, post it, and THEN read our responses. Sure there is a good back and forth between the devs and the players, but sometimes when they know they are about to piss us off, they avoid the confrontation nerfs will bring.
"You're the sun and the moon to me..."
My Antiquated Earth/Storm Controller Guide!
@KokopelliJoe
If people couldn't pwrlvl their Controllers to 32 and actually had to grind them, I think that would help tremendously. (Yes I have a Fire/Rad Controller and yes he has every Contact available to a lvl 24 hero taken to Confidant lvl.)
Having said that, the non-Illusion/Fire Controllers need better post-32 rewards. The extreme difference between a pre-32 Fire/Illusion and a post-32 Fire/Illusion perfectly matches the description of Controllers from the character creation screen IMO.
I am really hoping something is done about the Gravity set to make it's animations a bit faster. Needs a few other general tweaks here and there *cough -get rid of Propel- *cough*.
I also have a fire /rad controller who is level 29 and have been leveling him up naturally via teaming with same leveled heroes. I have to say it is going to be quite rewarding when I get imps, and I hope it stays that way.
Yeah, Gravity.
That's the one that really needs lookin at.
It's pretty crazy some of the things I've seen MindControl do. ...It's nothing that's in real demmand, but it makes the crowd control that my Illusion controller and Storm defender have look pathetic. If they had some real damage too they'd probably be able to handle a few too many situations a little too well. So I wouldn't worry about Mind again quite yet.
But Gravity, I don't think it's even capeable of that level of control and the activation times don't help either. But changing them could take too long like it took for Martial Arts and Katana. Do something quicker like changing some of their minor DoT's to moderate DoT's and make some of those immobilizing powers debuff resistance to smashing damage and call it good.
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I've noted them all down for analysis.
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Suddenly I feel like I am under a magnifying lense. Hey is it getting warmer in the forum all of a sudden?