hmmmm you better pray for an update! Cuz all the accolades in paragon city are not gonna stop me from vaporizing a well-slotted PB or WS in the arena! Let me say that from my perspective as of now Kheldians are lame and the most likely to book it without a word when things get hot...I've teamed with them...hows that old saying go..."Jack of all trades, master of none?" The devs had better come up with something better than "kheldians" if they want my dime after I hit 50. Prestige!?!?! in a game where many kheldians PL ed their way to top? no sir...there is no prestige in looking like a squid.
Betty Bliss Lvl36 Energy/Energy Blaster (390 hours invested)
triumph Server!!!!
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hmmmm you better pray for an update! Cuz all the accolades in paragon city are not gonna stop me from vaporizing a well-slotted PB or WS in the arena! Let me say that from my perspective as of now Kheldians are lame and the most likely to book it without a word when things get hot...I've teamed with them...hows that old saying go..."Jack of all trades, master of none?" The devs had better come up with something better than "kheldians" if they want my dime after I hit 50. Prestige!?!?! in a game where many kheldians PL ed their way to top? no sir...there is no prestige in looking like a squid.
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Oooooh, burn!
Nice.
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Kyrin,
Please post your build so that the rest of us playing a Warshade can take a look at the unique build you've come up with that is useful. After many test respecs at L28 I'm not seeing any lights at the end of the tunnel other than a train.
Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"
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My build may not help you much especially at level 28. Warshades like most controllers are late bloomers. Things didn't start to turn around for me until I picked up Dark Extraction at level 32. I also did a few things that you might not want to do especially if you are not planning on using all three forms. You can find my build in the same thread as my Warshade Three Form Guide.
Those of us happy with our kheldians, despite the issues with them, are not sticking our heads in the sand. We're just more patient with the AT and willing to wait for the proposed change the devs said they would make for Kheldians around Issue 4.
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The biggest problem I have is that is seems that the devs are ignoring the problems altogether or putting them off while other things are worked on. If one project has problems and you've already released it to your customers you don't just toss it on the shelf and move on to the next project. This theory has only managed to work for Microsoft and to a lesser extent Sony. Even Sony is taking the initiative to fix problems quickly now that they have competition.
Knowing that the Warshade is crap until 32 at least gives me an answer though. My first char was a Grav/Storm controller and it was essentially crap until it hit 32 as well.
Thanks,
Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"
<sigh> Viv says its no longer "all me".
http://wendy-mags.mybrute.com/
To the OP, what do you think Kheldian's roles should be?
BTW a Storm Defender with Snowstorm, Weave, and Hibernations has insane defense. I've grouped with one that herded wolves for an entire zone, and another one who herded monkeys. If that isn't safe I don't know what is. But to be fair having powers like Snow Storm and PFF is the same thing as having 85% resistance to most damage types.
Kheldians seem to be a bit of everything, depending on which form you use.
Human form = Defender offense, Controller tricks, with Scrapper defense
Nova form = Blaster
Dwarf form = Tanker
I don't think any are neccessarily better than any of the AT's, but certainly competative.
I think you can slot up human form to be an effective all around support class, or slot up both dwarf and nova form to be able to switch between damage and defense for your team. That's just a couple examples of what you can do.
An answer to the resists capped for 2 damage types at lvl 25 question? That's an easy answer. You can max out Lethal and Smashing damage types on Inv tankers by lvl 22. Fire tankers can max out Lethal/Smashing and Fire resists by getting Tough at lvl 22 (on top of Fire and Plasma Shield). And I assure you, both a fire tanker and inv tanker can have 2-3 attacks to do servicable damage. That's not even counting Burn.
What I worry about is the lack of Defense with Kheldians. Particularly since damage avoidance is the only thing that works against Quantum/Void attacks.
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hmmmm you better pray for an update! Cuz all the accolades in paragon city are not gonna stop me from vaporizing a well-slotted PB or WS in the arena! Let me say that from my perspective as of now Kheldians are lame and the most likely to book it without a word when things get hot...I've teamed with them...hows that old saying go..."Jack of all trades, master of none?" The devs had better come up with something better than "kheldians" if they want my dime after I hit 50. Prestige!?!?! in a game where many kheldians PL ed their way to top? no sir...there is no prestige in looking like a squid.
Betty Bliss Lvl36 Energy/Energy Blaster (390 hours invested)
triumph Server!!!!
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Somebody on Triumph please take down Betty's name and schedule an arena appointment. I'm not much for the whole "us against the standard AT" attitude but if we're going to start speculating on PvP, here's what I think:
My kheld has outdamaged every blaster I've teamed with, even those a level or two above him. It's not going to matter if you have 390 hours of experience in game or not - most Kheldians have more, and nothing in the game is going to prepare you for the variety of tactics a Peacebringer or Warshade can employ. Kheldians are resistant to energy attacks in all forms, and their nova form can outmaneuver you, their dwarf and human can outlast you, and they have enough self-heals to whittle you down to a whimper. If played right, I can't see any blaster except ice having a chance, and even Ice's chance is no better than even odds.
I think PvP with Kheldians is going to be a very interesting show. You never know what you're going up against.
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You made our primary a blast set but gave us less damage than two AT s that have damage sets as their secondaries.
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Agreed. Even if you're getting a 30% (say) damage bonus from the link, the lower base damage means you're still worse off blasting in human form than a Defender. Even if the secondary and link bonus gives you as much defense as a Defender's primary, I still don't see how you're coming out "second to none" on the damage/defense combo.
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Lol.
On a scale of 0 to 10, 10 being the greatest, we are a 1. 0 being "none", so in essence we are second to "none"
Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"
<sigh> Viv says its no longer "all me".
http://wendy-mags.mybrute.com/
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hmmmm you better pray for an update! Cuz all the accolades in paragon city are not gonna stop me from vaporizing a well-slotted PB or WS in the arena! Let me say that from my perspective as of now Kheldians are lame and the most likely to book it without a word when things get hot...
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When things get hot, I often blast the evil into prison. I never quit a team without an explanation, and never because things are a bit tough. if things get too tough, I'll say so, and suggest teammates that might help, or suggest trying some other time.
What's with the ad hominem directed at people simply for playing Kheldians in this thread?
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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What's with the ad hominem directed at people simply for playing Kheldians in this thread?
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Hating Kheldians is cool. We're like the new Blasters or PLers or Winter Lord generation.
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What's with the ad hominem directed at people simply for playing Kheldians in this thread?
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I've been wondering the same thing. Not just on this thread, but in many threads on the Kheldian forum. It gets old.
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What's with the ad hominem directed at people simply for playing Kheldians in this thread?
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Hating Kheldians is cool. We're like the new Blasters or PLers or Winter Lord generation.
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I bet it's level 50 envy. Just like when people see our huge post counts and instantly get offensive.
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What's with the ad hominem directed at people simply for playing Kheldians in this thread?
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Hating Kheldians is cool. We're like the new Blasters or PLers or Winter Lord generation.
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I bet it's level 50 envy. Just like when people see our huge post counts and instantly get offensive.
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I have the same problem in the swimming pool changing rooms...
LOL 
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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What's with the ad hominem directed at people simply for playing Kheldians in this thread?
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Hating Kheldians is cool. We're like the new Blasters or PLers or Winter Lord generation.
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I bet it's level 50 envy. Just like when people see our huge post counts and instantly get offensive.
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Hmm.... Now I'm feeling left out. I can't compete with you guys here....
Maybe I should start making tons of short posts (like this one) and Powerlevel my post count... Yeah, that's it....
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The Kheldian role is that they can do a little of everything - and, on a full team, have a combination of defense and ranged offense that's second to none.
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I don't have a problem with this, Jack, it seems like an excellent goal. From my perspective, though, it seems to me that Kheldians are the "fallback" guys. I stopped playing mine because I didn't feel like a superhero, I felt like a plug.
I think that's my problem with the AT. I feel like the guy that the team goes to when they can't get the right AT for the job, so they call the Kheld 'cause, while he's not the best for the job "Meh... he'll do."
To me, that's not "superhero" that's "substitute teacher".
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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To the OP, what do you think Kheldian's roles should be?
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My point has always been that Kheldians should be diverse. We were told that they could be really whatever they wanted. That isnt true. The person posting that says he has a 3 form guide, i looked at it, to keep nova form at what he calls a good point he has used 15 slots, just under a quarter the total slots you get for the whole game. But to put it more in perspective, that is basicly every slot you get between level 8 and and 20. Isnt that a rediculous amout of slotting to dedicate to essentially one of 22 powers you select. And that is my point. when you start lookin at slots for nova that do no good if in any other forms, and slots for dwarf, and slots for stamina and hasten, it leaves everything poorly slotted. And in his guide the two single shots have no slotting, so they will likely do less damage then a typical tanker attack in most mid level gaming. Again his guide points out my concerns exactly, there is no flexibility, everyone that keeps nova only keeps it for the AOE power, dwarf for status protection, human for the control aspects. How are we even a jack of all trades with one heal, one control power (and again i play a peace bringer). Yes those can be utility but they make playing forms almost a waste of time if you spend half a fight waiting for animations to transform you. Or how do you heal a teammate close to death when you just taunted a group to you in dwarf form.
I know people disagree with me but to me the forms should be secondary to the human and serve to add bonuses at the cost of other atributes and shouldnt require the kinda of slotting commitment they do. That is why i say that nova should reflect and average of how many damages you have on your powers, plus its inherent damge bonus. so that the powers do more damage then your human shape, but dont require 15-20 slots to make them that way. Same thing dwarf base resistance can figure an average of damage resistances on your shields. and then you can slot for end rec and increase the resistance on the base of the power. The forms are powers, and no power requires the kinda of slotting that they do to make them viable.
Like i said i abandoned forms after i read statemans response. TO me it is obivous that the devs developed the characters to shine in human, team forms. Which is to bad, because since this game came out people on these boards have clamored wanting a shapeshifting AT. Unfortunately it comes at a cost to expensive to use for to little return. But again that is my opinion, and i dont speak for everyone or know everything. It is possible at a future time i can respec back in a form, but with light form coming at level 38 i dont see a reason to maintain dwarf form when i get the same thing with alot better damage in human form. I can solo Freak tank bosses in human form, sneak up behind void stalkers and knock them on there [censored] before they get a shot off at me with the melee strikes, what nova has no defense, and dwarf kills them to slowly. To me the strenght i am seeing now is that in human form dedicating my slotting to those powers, i am basicly a melee blaster with sheilds. The melee PB attacks are on par damage wise with those of the energy manipulation set and the ranges are weaker, but still ok as a secondary to the melee. With the defneses, hasten perma, stamina, and dull pain and a self heal, i actually think i am doing better then i did in dwarf. I havent had to run yet, and only died SK to a level 50 fighting Nightstar when she set off nova. (but i havent taken the energy shield yet either that was next on my list)
Over all my opinion is that nova and dwarf are broken. In much the same way they have claimed other powers were. I guess i will just have to wait for more people to reach upper levels and let them datamine how many people keep the forms to see that they need to be addressed.
The beauty of kheldians is that you can choose to put emphasis on one, two or three forms. The more focused you are on a given form, the better you can make that form with human form being the most versatile and best one to focus on.
If you don't want to use nova or dwarf, you don't have to. The strength of the AT is that each person can build their Kheldian to fit their individual needs and playstyles. You find human form works best for you and choose to ignore the forms. That's fine but it does not make the other forms useless or broken.
Some people drop forms at higher levels simply because they want to be able to see the costumes they designed or feel more comfortable playing in human form. That has nothing to do with whether or not a power is broken. Kheldians as AT would be broken if you HAD to take nova or dwarf forms.
Also, Kheldians are one of the few ATs that do not need to 6 slot each and every useful power. Let me use my build and guide as an example.
Nova Form has 15 slots dedicated to it. The base form and both AEs are six-slotted. Why? Because I spend a lot of time in that form. I wanted to be able to do the most damage possible with my AEs since that is my sole use for nova form. I could have slotted nova form less and still do damage equivalent to a blaster but it all came down to my playstyle and priorities. Since I am not slotting any human form AE's (except for orbitting death and eclipse), I had the slots to use for nova form.
Should everyone do this? No. The purpose of a guide and posting your build is not to tell everyone "This is how you have to do things". It is to give your fellow players information so that they can make an informed decision and see how you did things.
If I plan to spend most of my time in human form, I have the option to slot nova form less or not take it. Nova and dwarf forms are not must have powers though I would not play a kheldian without them.
As for light form, there are some nice benefits to it but it has a few issues that dwarf form does not. I would not get too attached to it because it and quantum flight are probably going to get changed.
Captain Booth - Necro / Storm Mastermind
Operative Cole - Soldier of Arachnos
Tango One - Fire / SS Tanker
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What's with the ad hominem directed at people simply for playing Kheldians in this thread?
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Hating Kheldians is cool. We're like the new Blasters or PLers or Winter Lord generation.
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I bet it's level 50 envy. Just like when people see our huge post counts and instantly get offensive.
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Hey, you're Renowned too! Welcome to the club, your "Secret Master of the Forums" card will be mailed shortly. Edit: Also, Spongecake.
And you're probably right.
I was also thinking of the guy who said that people who play Warshades are cool and people who play Peacebringers suck.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Speaking as "the ostrich" previously mentioned.
Note, I did not say there was nothing wrong. I said there was nothing wrong past the fixes going in on Test shortly.
Secondly, if you cannot grasp the concept that a Kheld can do 3 things, and decently (NOT as well as a pure AT) ON DEMAND, then you fail to grasp the concept of Kheldians.
NO OTHER AT CAN PERFORM 3 ROLES WELL ON DEMAND LIKE A KHELD.
Jeez, yes, true, I cannot do as much damage as a blaster at level 45. I cannot scrap as well as a scrapper at level 45. I cannot tank as well as a tanker at level 45.
But I can tank/blast/scrap alot better than them at lower levels, going up.
If ANY 50 is sitting here looking at "When I am level 50, Khelds will be t3h g1mp", you need to go back through the levels again.
Perhaps you will realize that level 50 is a JOURNEY, not a destination. ALL THE WAY UP, Khelds outperform in the roles that they assume.
Show me a blaster doing my DPS at level 23? Show me a tanker who has 85% resists at level 25, to everything but nictus and psi?
You can't.
I have made Level 25 (kheldian) grouping with others, friends, pickup groups and what have you. I have maxxed my friends list from NEW friends in the first 3 days (and most of those were low or mid-level players who teamed with me on a whim, others were alts of high-level friends, but most were immediately after a mission in which I served all three roles, and well).
Dude. I have no head in the sand. I solo'd my DM/Regen scrapper from level 1 in the Pre-I3 days where getting to level 31 was the goal, cause you stopped dying so much, and made it there with no reconstruction, 3 weeks part time.
No PL to get there, either. Lots of Task Forces, though.
I know this game well, and this is not the only toon I've played. I have a 22 Empath defender, a 25 blaster, another 21 blaster and 2 more scrappers of decent level. The only AT I do NOT have an Alt with is Controller.
Bottom line, I've played alot (since week 1 of retail) and done alot and seen alot in this game. I'm not claiming to be an expert.
But if I can make the AT work, and work well, shouldn't others be able to as well? I don't want radical changes or buffs to the khelds. They'll get overpowered. Then nerfed.
They are fairly well-balanced now. WS perhaps need some help on this and that, but otherwise, they work well.
I'm not the only one who makes them work well. I have played with at least 5 others and have read it from at least 30 others on these boards.
I've read 10 people with serious complaints, and they are the same 10 people.
If you can't play one, wait for the next EAT. Just stop knocking Khelds and trying to change them into something they are not. Or knocking those that CAN play one well.
It's sorta like not being able to play a blaster due to aggro mismanagement and then saying how gimp blasters are because you stink at playing them.
The way I am playing my warshade right now is to not slot up Nova, but put all my slots in human form, at least until I see Dwarf and decide if I should slot that up.
To be honest I hate being in Nova form. I don't like the look of the character. Right now I have Nova just so that I can fly at lvl 6, and because I prefer that versatility to Orb Death or Grav Snare.
I will be slotting up my resists and attacks as a human form and try to get as many of the human form powers as I can. The only power pool choices I am getting are Hurdle/Health/Stamina and possibly Hasten.
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I've read 10 people with serious complaints, and they are the same 10 people
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Interestingly enough you are one of the 10 people I see constantly pulling out the soap box to explain to anyone who disagrees with you how they are wrong and you are right. So the circle is complete. 10 to complain over and over again and 10 to state how the other 10 are wrong over and over again.
Damn straight. Every AT has weaknesses and strengths.
I learned my strengths and weaknesses as a scrapper, as a blaster, as a defender, and a kheld.
I've never complained about them to the degree I see on these boards. So yes, I feel obliged to make sure people know that khelds DO have a strength, and it is known about.
It jsut seems that the viewpoint gets so skewed with this talk of "you can't do a, b or c well", yet the magic is in that you can do all of them. Having played squishies and non-squishies, the power of turning from squishy to non-squishy seems to be seriously overlooked.
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I've read 10 people with serious complaints, and they are the same 10 people
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Interestingly enough you are one of the 10 people I see constantly pulling out the soap box to explain to anyone who disagrees with you how they are wrong and you are right. So the circle is complete. 10 to complain over and over again and 10 to state how the other 10 are wrong over and over again.
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Make that 11. In the hands of a skilled and tactical player, Khelds rock. By the time you level a toon to 50 and unlock Kheldians, you should be just such a player. If you're not, that's not the devs' fault.
But the amount of killing power/tanking power/etc has very little to do with how much fun they are. Some people like a more focused role, or a more humanoid avatar. More power to em. If you don't like playing with all their powers, either pick powers you do like or play another archetype.
Which is why after I tried the new Epics, I decided that a Claws/Regen Was more epic, and more fun for me to play...just my opinion.
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Make that 11. In the hands of a skilled and tactical player, Khelds rock. By the time you level a toon to 50 and unlock Kheldians, you should be just such a player. If you're not, that's not the devs' fault.
But the amount of killing power/tanking power/etc has very little to do with how much fun they are. Some people like a more focused role, or a more humanoid avatar. More power to em. If you don't like playing with all their powers, either pick powers you do like or play another archetype.
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I will assume all the "you" and "you're" found in your post are generalizations and not aimed at me since my post history reveals no negative comments about kheldians. As tired as you and the other "10" are of the negative complaints is equal to how tired I am of the endless counter arguments. True to most forums the mob mentality rules. Wether it is "omg kheldz are teh sux" or "I got mad video game skillz and me loving kheldians proves it" the truth lies somewhere inbetween.
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Now on top of this a warshade may typically have two pets out, which have base damage of 80% of a blaster, maybe with 3 damage enhs in, giving them damage of about 150% of a base blaster each! Tho of course, the pets do no have haste, so maybe you are getting 150% of a blasters base damage between two pets.
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Sorry for not quoting your entire message, you make a lot of points but I want to add something about the other forms.
The only time status using and psi damage enemies are an issue for me is when I solo. If I want to stay in Nova form, I pop inspirations. Otherwise, I switch to dwarf or human form. Both of these are viable alternatives because the warshade has pets to supplement his damage output.
Dwarf form attacks have higher base damage than tankers but less than scrappers. Also, warshades can use sunless mire to boost their damage output in tank form. You still won't come close to nova or the damage a melee AT can dish out with their attacks but your damage output won't be in the toliet especially if you slot your attacks. Like nova form, it has no way to deal with lots of psi damage except for using luck inspirations.
In Human form, the warshade attacks are a little underpowered unless you are in a group with damage dealers. I rely on my pets to dish out most of the damage while I concentrate on using my other powers like gravity well, inky aspect and eclipse. to keep myself alive while the pets defeat things. This form has the best tools for dealing with enemies that do psionic damage.
Captain Booth - Necro / Storm Mastermind
Operative Cole - Soldier of Arachnos
Tango One - Fire / SS Tanker