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(I put the "Duh" thing in there becaus Kam called me selfish for saying I liked the changes, figured if he could dish it out he could take it)
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Side note - that looks to have been Reverb, not me. My first post on this topic (although not this thread) was the statistical one. I prefer to lay out facts, not insult other posters...
Kam
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Yes, it was me. And I apologize for responding as I did initially. It's just that in following this thread I've gotten so very tired of some of the pro-boss-buffers advancing arguments that are either so clearly and utterly bogus from the get go or compeltely slanted from their position as one of the favored AT/powerset combos as to why the change is no big deal in the first place.
The "I got mine and nothing else really matters" point of view.
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The issue is not whether or not I'm right or wrong or arrogant (I put the "Duh" thing in there becaus Kam called me selfish for saying I liked the changes, figured if he could dish it out he could take it) There are plenty of builds that have end drain and plenty that don't. The real issue is apparently "forced grouping"
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In this particular exchange, the issue is in fact that you are wrong. There are not plenty of builds that have endurance drain. Less than 1/5 of the possible combinations of primary/secondary in the game have any ability to drain endurance, and only 10% have enough to ever make a difference in a fight.
2 end drain enhancements in transference will drain a mob practically dry. Follow it with transfusion and your team has full endurance and health, and that mob has no endurance at all.
Kinetics' transference does have a very effective end drain.
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2 end reducers in transference will drain a mob practically dry. Follow it with transfusion and your team has full endurance and health, and that mob has no endurance at all.
Kinetics' transference does have a very effective end drain.
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Well, I assume you mean Endurance Drain, and that may be so, but honestly now, how many people would put two slots in Transference with Endurance Drain in it, in addition to however many slots it takes to give it adequate Endurance Recovery ability? May be they should do it now, but I'm really talking about an effective number of powers to make endurance drain a viable strategy even if you don't slot for it. You must admit, with every power causing endurance drain, Kinetics Defenders are nowhere near the same class as Electric Blasters.
I agree, electric blasters do drain end better. Kineticists are primarily about buffing. And our end drains are aoe end recoveries and heals.
To optimize transference, I would say you will want 2 accuracy, 2 end reducers, 2 end recoveries, and the ability to stand near combat without being turned into pulp (that one can be tricky). Leadership helps here. Maneuvers can get you close enough without too much fear of debt. Tactics lets you drop an accuracy, replacing it with another end recovery I think will fill your bar. Stealth is another way to go.
However, the recharge rate is going to prevent you from using it often enough to keep the mob locked-down via endurance. But the scrappers and tankers are gonna love you, especially once you start throwing FS around.
If you are playing a boss-killer build, then this is worth the slotting. Heck, if you are playing a toggle-heavy build it is worth it too.
Not everyone has the time allowed to team. I have a schedule that is volitile and is the result of being in health care. I may only have an hour in the wee morning hours to play. I like to solo during these times to relax and not stand at the Talos train begging for a team as my play time ticks away. My character was really fun to solo in Chapter 2. Now it sucks. I can do a mission up to the last area and then get ready to die twice because I'm "squishy". Not everyone is a tactician or is hard core player. Some of us like the hero concept and not the "Justice League" team concept. Here is what I ask you to consider doing for those of us who are slow, inept, casual, fearful, or whatever players.
A SOLO slider on most missions!!!
This would be an option when we take a mission from a contact. Once selected it means:
1. Only one person can go through the door, on the train, or start the mission. No teaming is allowed. The team option is disabled while the mission is in effect.
2. The XP points, Influence, and Mission points are 1/4 of the normal mission points at the standard Hardcore level. This is to prevent the Solo level slider from being a quick leveling tool. It will take 4 missions to equal just one normal one.
3. The minions are -1, the Liets are even or -1, and there are no bosses unless it is a -3 (effectively an even level one) needed for the mission story line.
4. Once Solo level is selected, it can only be changed at a Paragon Trainer like the slider is now changed. The Solo level can be put back to Hardcore or above but it costs the player 1/10 of his total Influence that he has at that time. This is to prevent folks from using it in a careless manner or as some kind of exploit. That way it affects players in a way from low to high. In other words if you take Solo.....u better want to finish it by yourself.
This Solo slider idea would allow those of us with weak play styles or characters to have the enjoyment of doing missions and staying alive better. We wouldn't level quick or even at at normal rate but we would ENJOY the game again. It takes the pressure of teammates yelling at us for our "bad" play style when we would just as soon be doing a mission at our own pace. If the present level of Boss problems stays like it is......I have my own solution to the solo problem. It's a box that says Halflife 2......I can be Gordon Freeman and solo at my own pace. Thanks!
This thread is now dead....please go to the post States has made "Solo and Team Play"
Ohhh and lets all be a bit nicer to each other in future threads too 
As the great philosophers themselves said....
"Ummm yeah, be excellent to one another"
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My guess is that, using the awesome power of the GM, they clicked the blinky for you, thus completing your mission.
I'm not entirely sure they can otherwise mark missions complete for you. Perhaps they can. I doubt they would for an undeclared boss. In any case, they have better things to do, like helping people with unfindable blinkies or hostages.
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Actually, I wasn't even in the mission when the GM marked it complete.
Never underestimate the power of a GM....
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But if they don't want to assist you, they will be obtuse to point of making me angry.
What part of "There are no level 41-43 Malta in Peregrine Island" didn't he understand?
And I know have *TWO* hunt 50 Malta missions at level 40. I thought I would be getting them out of my way at the same time, only to find out that the only spawn of Malta (lowest leve) is *46*.
Ouch.
Still here, even after all this time!
Okay, this is my first time responding here so forgive me for being naive in any way.
It seems to me that most of the people having a problem with the "oneshotting" in issue 3 are the non-melee based characters. Most of the characters availalbe are of the squishie kind. Has it simply occurred to everyone that maybe what us blasters/controllers/defenders need are some actuall defenses? It would seem to me that with the new pools being available at lvl 41 that include defensive boosts, that the devs are recognizing that we have been short changed in the defensive realm. Once you hit lvl30, the dying starts and doesn't let up. I was fine with that pre-issue3, but now its just rediculous. Try giving us some unique defensive abilities in order to withstand the changes you've made. I think that instead adjusting numbers, maybe its time to come up with some new tricks for us to deal with the "winds of fate", and it doesn't just have to be new powers. I don't mind unpredictability, I don't mind something being made super tough. But you can't do that without giving us a way to survive it. Maybe you should leave the bosses as is and blame it on fate. But give us the tools we need to stay in the game. I'm becoming a liability to my team as a blaster and blasters are quickly becoming the most expendable type in this game. Scrappers do as much if not more damage than we do, so the 'glass cannon" concept isn't holding true. Add something NEW Devs. Not recalculated OLD stuff.
Examples of new twists...
Flame Thrower has a fear component(if blasters are so powerful, make others scared of certain powers)
Create Accolades just for squishies that increase defense/resistance.
Ice Blasters actually get Ice Armor!! That should have been a given from the start.
While a villain is suffering the effects of a DOT power, he can't attack(its hard to fight when you're on fire).
A reverse of the taunt power that makes them avoid attacking if there are other heros in the room.
A spin off of the old "Mirror Image" power from D&D. You can call it Hologram if it were a tech power.
~~~~Side point... would love to see type specific costume choices and maybe even powers that permanently alter the appearance of a character if they so choose. Maybe even enhancements that alter your appearance.
'nuff said.
One last comment...
It's not just squishies. My 24th level regen scrapper did the sister psyche task force last night, seven people in the group. Many groups had three freakshow tanks, either 26th or 27th level.
My regen scrapper was regularly taken down with two shots, and sometimes with one shot. Completely unfun.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
Ack, don't nerf the new bosses! They're awesome.
CoH exists because there's a little hero in all of us.
Ridolfo 50 DM DA.
& far too many alts
Hephaestus; Ok heres the update,I hit lvl 25 and yes i can Solo boss's both on the street and in Missions. Granted its a bit of a workout and i agree not all Archetypes may be able to do it Solo. But its possible,and in my case a lot of fun :]
Junkyard Wolf
California Smog(CoV)
Far Rider
Durango Dave
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Ack, don't nerf the new bosses! They're awesome.
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There's no nerf! Just kick up the difficulty slider a bit if you want these buffed bosses.
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Typically, yes.
But...there are a few missions that have multiple bosses in a single spawn and a few more that have multiple bosses spread throughout the map. The vast majority of boss missions have a single boss appear (no matter what the team size) in one of the end rooms.
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Not sure wether to laugh or cry here, I'm a fire/ice blaster and for the last few days in more and more of my mission i'm finding multiple boss and these are missions i'm trying solo. It can get even worse in missions I part of a group. An example I was teamed up with a pair of tankers and the entier enemy group consisted of 11 Freakshow tanks all seperate thank god and 12 freakshow minions and 2 freak show lt's.
I'm sure this is something you've all heard before but before I3 I coudl general take a boss one on one 70/30 percent of the time with the use of inspirations to aid me after I3 it's now 5/95 percent and that's with heavy use of inspirations. And I so wish I was joking with there high damage I am spending mroe and more time working of debt even with group. Earlier today is a good example I was with a nice group Controller a defender 2 blaster and a tank a nice balance most of us died 3 or more times trying to beat just 2 freakshow tankers not only with there high damage we were hampered by the tight quarters of the map in the end we had to give up and leave in the mission after that we tried almost every mob we encountered had a boss mixed in with it. And these are mission set at Tenacious level of diffuclty. Now while i can understand a need to make the boss tougher giving them more hp "x3 better than me" and better damage resistance giving them the ability to kill most hero's in 2 to 3 hits is just sick wrong unfair i'm not really sure how to put. Suffice to say this one change has sucked much of the fun out of the game for me. I could live with all the other changes just not the damage one mistake and a boss could decimate a group of hero's while this is something I would expect from a AV not a boss.
As one person posted with this new change many of the mission and TF's have become insanely diffcult he mentioned the Eden trials, I point to the first terra volta mission trial something I had been trying for awhile to get and now can't see a way to get it with the amount of boss's in the mission. If they would just have them cause less damage I would have nothing to complain about.
I have tried the eden trial several times and the moss wall allways seems the break point. Since v3 I have not been able to get past the moss wall and believe it is definitly more dificult than before. We had a full team of lv 40/41s a couple even lvled to 42 before we got to the moss wall. The new boss rules and other changes flat out made it imposible to get past. The spwans were overwhelming and we all died at least 3 times. If any one has been successful at this in v3 please let me know what you did.
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Well, I assume you mean Endurance Drain, and that may be so, but honestly now, how many people would put two slots in Transference with Endurance Drain in it, in addition to however many slots it takes to give it adequate Endurance Recovery ability? May be they should do it now, but I'm really talking about an effective number of powers to make endurance drain a viable strategy even if you don't slot for it. You must admit, with every power causing endurance drain, Kinetics Defenders are nowhere near the same class as Electric Blasters.
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On my kinetics defender, I follow the generally recommended advice of other kinetics who came before me and have slotted Transference with 1 ACC, 1 End Recovery, 2 End Drains and 2 Recharge. From level 27 on, I have been able to completely drain an even level boss and at that level I trio'd the respec TF with another defender (empath) and a regen scrapper - zero deaths and completed in record time. A huge part of that success was me keeping half the bosses drained (and killing a good number of them) long enough so the scrapper could get to them after he was done with his share of the bosses.
Kinetics can drain end very effectively on single targets but there are some caveats.
<ul type="square">* Transference drains less end if the mob is higher level; e.g., I can completely drain an even boss, but not a +2 minion.
* The Transference drain does not prevent end regeneration, but it limits the mob to its less effective attacks and when it does attack, it tends to keep itself drained.
* The Transfusion heal does drain end and can be slotted for more end drain, but is better used as a heal. It can be used to keep a mob drained until the next Transference though.[/list]
True, electrical blast is superior at endurance drain, but do remember that electrical blast is also available as a defender secondary and is an excellent pairing with kinetics. Still, don't discount the team value of ANY kinetics defender or controller using Transference in a fight with bosses. It is most certainly a viable tactic in battle and that doesn't even include the fact that at higher levels we can debuff damage very very effectively.
50 Fire/Dev | 50 AR/Dev | 50 Ninjas/FF MM | 50 Bots/Dark | 50 Kin/Rad |
44 EM/Regen | 39 BS/Regen | 38 Kin/Elec | 27 Thugs/Pain
"Rare is the man so noble that he will always give thanks for that which is freely given." -Jock_Tamson
I'll have to agree with you sueme; the moss wall is the breaking point. I think after the 2nd team wipe we gave up. A full 8; two empaths, two elec balsters; a stone tank, a fire tank, a invuln tank and myself. All 40-41; some exemped down.
And it just could not be done... and upset us very much because It was such a fun Task force up until that point.
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Not sure wether to laugh or cry here, I'm a fire/ice blaster and for the last few days in more and more of my mission i'm finding multiple boss and these are missions i'm trying solo. It can get even worse in missions I part of a group. An example I was teamed up with a pair of tankers and the entier enemy group consisted of 11 Freakshow tanks all seperate thank god and 12 freakshow minions and 2 freak show lt's.
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Last night a full group of 8 lvl 39-42 tried to take on an outdoor train nemesis mission. We had a nice balance (2-3 blasters, 2 controllers, 2 scrappers (or 1 scrapper and 1 tank), and a defender). I've grouped with most of these guys multiple times before and they're all decent players and none of them are idiots.
We get on the map, and there are approximately 4 snipers, 10-20 lancers or whatever they are, 10-20 of the little quadripedal machines, 2 Fake Nemesis in each mob. Sometimes a hulk or void hunter, thrown in for good measure. It was so much that my graphics slowed down just from the things moving.
That part wasn't the difficult part. The difficult part was the fact that the mobs were extremely close together. We'd almost finish taking out one mob when the other mob would start aggroing because it was 5 feet away from the other mob. The minions weren't ever really a problem, another blaster and I would alternate inferno to take most of those out. The problem came from the multiple aggros and the fact that the bosses are so gd hard to kill now. One or two are doable, but start adding in anymore and the potential for the team to get completely toasted is dramatically higher. And that's just what happened. We started out trying to clear the mission, but got so frustrated after the nth massacre that we just stealthed (as much as we could with snipers) and rescued the hostages.
This is a pretty typical example that I've seen the past couple of weeks since I3 came out. I didn't throw my hat in with the people (mainly blasters) complaining early on about the new difficulty of the bosses. I tried new tactics, reworked how I initiated attacks, kept stocked up on inspirations, slotted up some of my (few) defenses when I hit 42. Still, I'm a nice, soft squishy target that's supposed to be a damage dealer that is instead becoming a damage b****.
I now concede defeat: the bosses are too tough to make the game enjoyable. They _were_ pretty easy before and teams used to PLOW through them, so I can understand the toughening up, but I think it was a bit too much.
So I add my voice to the chorus.
The changes were rolled back. They have been for over a day, right? But you know what? I had a bad story to tell about this too.
Does ambush spawn depend on the difficulty level of the hero with the mission, or does it take into account the levels and difficulty of all members of the team? The other night, while I was still on hard-boiled, some blaster asked me for a sidekicking. I accepted, figuring it would speed up my missions. We go through a mission, but it was pretty sloppy. Then I say I'm going to a contact to get another mission for us. So I pop off to FF and go talk to that rikti guy.
And the rikti guy gives me a mission with a surprise ambush, while my sidekick is still in Talos somewhere. You know the mission, defeat so and so, bigwig rikti traditionalist and portal scientist. No big deal, I think. Ambushes aren't exactly complicated. But then I start to notice something. I'm not being ambushed by one group of two or three (like I usually get ambushed by), but instead there were like four groups of three, all spread out all over the place, coming in from different directions.
12 mobs in a clump I can handle. 12 mobs trickling in in twos and threes? Not so much. I guess I shouldn't have moved from the contact to the mission door? Perhaps I should have made the blaster come with me to the contact? Maybe they were all clumped together when they spawned? I dunno. But being surrounded by enemies that like to do ranged damage sucks.
My question is this: does that mission come with a 12 mob ambush all the time, or did I get screwed because my sidekick had his difficulty bar up too high? Another possibility would be that the spawn included a communications officer, but I saw a few drones shooting me from max range, a couple of headmen teleporting in close to the singies, all while guardians buffed and infantry ran amok. And I didn't ever see a portal.
Yeah, I was caught with my pants down. Shame on me. But still, ouch!
Anyone want to comment?
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Ack, don't nerf the new bosses! They're awesome.
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No, boss fights now are a battle of "can I put down this boss before my blue bar expires" or "can I put down this boss before it hits me and takes me out in one shot" depending upon your AT and build.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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The changes were rolled back. They have been for over a day, right? But you know what? I had a bad story to tell about this too.
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I was not aware of this, they certainly were still in effect when I was on. I'll have to log later on (when I get back from the lab) and check it out.
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Does ambush spawn depend on the difficulty level of the hero with the mission, or does it take into account the levels and difficulty of all members of the team?
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I suspect that it depends on the team as a whole, but I'm not sure. Ambushes are pretty light when I solo, but when I have a team, they can be pretty sizable.
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Ack, don't nerf the new bosses! They're awesome.
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No, boss fights now are a battle of "can I put down this boss before my blue bar expires" or "can I put down this boss before it hits me and takes me out in one shot" depending upon your AT and build.
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Tell me about it - I was doing fine against Ubelmann with my blaster until he closed to melee range & I didn't have any room to get up in the air...let's just say a trip to the hospital ensued after he one-shotted me.
I don't mind being beaten (well actually I do ), but getting hit once & going down is a little much.
Mr E-Man ~ Mr E-Villain
XBL GamerTag: il Radd
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The changes were rolled back. They have been for over a day, right? But you know what? I had a bad story to tell about this too.
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I was not aware of this, they certainly were still in effect when I was on. I'll have to log later on (when I get back from the lab) and check it out.
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They weren't rolled back last night, at least.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Boss Changes
As for why we put Bosses in missions at all in other words, why isnt everything solo-able the answer is simple. We want gameplay that encourages the best part of the game: teaming up. Soloing is fine, but a MMP really shines when you meet other people and play alongside them. Ive made many good virtual friends through other MMPs that I simply would not have done if I could solo everything all the time. I admit it: Im anti-social. Its hard to get me to group up with strangers. But after I do it, I always wonder why dont I do this more often
I might still be anti-social in real life, but in MMPs Im a social butterfly (I have no doubt that this will appear in sigs for years to come
)
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I have not read all these post but I am sure this has already been said but I will reiterate it.
The thing about COH that I fell in love with was the ability to solo. Yes teaming can be fun but 99% of the time I hop on do 1 mission and log off. That ability to play on my schedule and not some teams schedule is what kept me here after trying the game.
It isn't that I don't want to team but with limited playtime getting a team together and doing my missions usually takes more time than I have to play. So far I have been able to handle the new bosses except for 1 mission that has multiple bosses that I cannot do and another mission with an AV that I cannot do. However if this trend continues and I am forced to just street sweep in my 20 - 30 minutes of playtime I will have to drop the game.
This is not a "do what I want or I'll quit" post it is just the reality of how my playtime works. If I cannot do my missions then there is no reason to play.
So please Statesman consider those of us that have limited playtimes as you keep tweaking the game more towards team only play. Maybe add a second level of team only missions that groups can do together as well as solo missions that everyone can do solo.
I really want to keep playing the game.
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I am pretty sure the scrapper primary Dark Melee has a power which can drain endurance, can't speak for the rest.
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No, Dark Consumption does damage and gives you Endurance.