One more thing.
As there are spawn rules for teams that differ from the spawn rules for solo players why on _earth_ can't we both be happy.
Statesman says that we shouldn't be able to take a boss solo. I disagree simply because it limits the type of villans I can fight which makes the game more dull and more repetitive. Why can't groups only ever spawn boss+1 and more/higher with more people, surely that would have the same effect for the groups?
Then again I'm happy to go an load up with inspirations, hell I generally save all mine for the end anyway. So I guess I'm cool with what States wants.
But hey why don't we split this up then, why can't:
1. Solo heroes solo 100% of the missions offered to them
2. Teams of heroes get something appropriate and adjustable for 100% of the missions offered to them.
I mean mission are non-quitable and often have linear arcs, why do solo players even get offered mission they shouldn't be able to do? It just jams up your mission list.
Hey how about have two links on the contact screen, "Do you have an missions for me" and "Do you have anything for my team and I" you could look at them both without being in a team but you can only take the second ones with at least two people.
That way solo players should never get stuck on team content unless they do it deliberatly.
Ok I'll put my money where my mouth is. I'm a software dev, if time and money is the only thing stopping you splitting the missions out, I'll do it. Give me the mission data and spawn info (yep all of it) and I'll split them into team and solo missions/arcs. I'll sign any NDA you stick in font of me, and do the work for free. I know the likelyhood of this happening is slim but at least I made the offer 
I believe that the boss changes have hurt both solo players and team players alike. Why do I feel this way? Simply put, this changed has hurt the variety of teams and the variety of AT builds. Please do not get mad at me, because I do not intend to make anyone mad. Remember variety is the spice of life.
I have read post here that said that all powersets of all AT's could still solo if they choose the right powers and slot them properly. If true then it forces all AT's to have the uber build and choose the right pool powers to back them up. This means that those that chose to build their hero based on a concept will not be able to do it anymore.
If you do not build the uber build correctly then you will be useless as a solo hero (maybe street sweeping your way to the top is okay for some), but you would also be useless to a team. Reason is if you are not powerful enough to help a team to defeat a boss you will be booted from the team. With the new changes to bosses the fights now must last shorter.
Also this hurts teams because you now must carefully choose your team mates. You must decide not only what AT to choose but also what powers of that AT you are looking for. Further, you must make sure everyone is about the same level as you are.
Could this complaint that not enough players were teaming in the 25+ game be because players have stopped joining pick up groups and team only with their friends or supergroup? The question I have here is, are there any players that team 100% of the time, only do so with pick up teams? Are there some that team 100% of the time that have decided not to make any friends or join a super group? If this is so then my suggestion to them is make friends and join a super group. You can also use pick up teams when you have too. Please give us back the variety we once had as well as the freedom to choose whether to team or solo.
Ebony Fists: Level 50 DM/Regen Scrapper, Gloom Piston Robotics/Dark mastermind level 34, QueenFireMare: Level 34 Fire blaster (pure fire),
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Given that many of the previous generation of MMOs often required you to commit 10+ hours at a stretch to accomplish anything of significance I think its clear this simply means you dont need to play 80 hours a week to enjoy the game. This is not a comment on either team or solo focus, its a comment on fact you dont need to commit large amounts of time to accomplish anything. Certainly allowing solo play is part of this, but that is very different from saying the emphasis of the game is solo play.
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Why is it such a problem to you that there's solo content? Just how does it hurt you that the vast majority of the contact missions were soloable? Like I said, if you don't want to solo, bring a team. If things are too easy, bring a big team, and bump your slider all the way up. But this campaign of yours to make most of the content team-only is very distasteful. Don't solo if you don't want to. But quit pushing to keep me from soloing, if that's what I want to do. Don't push for this game to *require* grouping for a large portion of the content.
Every bit of the content in this game is team-oriented. All of it. Every single mission, task force, and trial. A large percentage of that content is also soloable - and should be. The vast majority of your contact missions *should* be soloable, with the exception of AV's, and maybe some Elite bosses. The boss change has made it so that a lot of what should be soloable content is no longer soloable for a substantial number of characters. I estimate 75%, or more.
I wouldn't expect most characters to be able to solo most AV's. Not in this game, and not in any comic book. Some characters will be able to handle Elite bosses solo. Most should be able to handle the average "named" boss. All should be able to handle the "generic" bosses. Not without some difficulty, of course. Too easy is boring.
You've seen many, many reasons people prefer to solo - even from people who also love to team. I've posted my own reasons a time or two. Surely, one of those makes sense to you. I've yet to see anything beyond "It's a multiplayer game. You shouldn't be soloing in a multiplayer game" as a reason from you.
Perhaps you should think about your reasons for disliking soloing in multiplayer games. All I've seen is repeated assertions of "It shouldn't be like that."
One of the ongoing issues I have with the boss changes is that I don't really see them helping long term. If someone is a hardcore soloer I don't think making the game unplayable to them is going to encourage teaming. They're more likely to just quit.
If you love teaming and are always in a group, then these changes really didn't do much for you other than perhaps limit the level differences in a group, which I seem to recall Statesman saying he wanted to limit a while ago. Many teams are at an easy or death situation with the new bosses. I've not tried it in ages but what would a multi-member Carnie mission like now? Isn't it wrong that I don't team with my scrapper in a Carnie mission just to avoid spawning more mobs or worse, a boss.
Myself, I do both solo and grouping. Or I did. Now soloing is frustrating or impossible (I'm an invul scrapper in the first Carnie arc, bosses are certain death). Did it encourage teaming? Not really, I already did that, just not often with that character.
So for some the changes could drive them away or they are simply doing what they always did anyway, just with substantial more risk and limitations.
As for the increased numbers of players, I haven't notice a huge jump in Justice but I'll also wager that many of the 'new' players are players who have left once coming back and playing Khelds. So many of them haven't got to the 25+ range yet (a Void Slayer boss, that's insta-debt). My experience with those that left was that the boredom they had was nothing to do with difficulity but with the repetitive missions, something that is still there. And if they left once because of that, I'd think they'll do it again.
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Perhaps you should think about your reasons for disliking soloing in multiplayer games. All I've seen is repeated assertions of "It shouldn't be like that."
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I absolutely agree with this, not neccessarily aimed at who Valerian was referring to but it does seem that many 'pro-groupers' see no reason to allow any soloability except mindless street sweeping, however you rarely, if every see pro-soloists supporting changes which would deter grouping or even commenting on the fact people shouldn't be able to get good grouping content.
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4.Stab my eyes, this will be a doozie! I made a character for CoH named Mass( now my primary w/o Super-skrull. I had him copyrighted back in '92 when you could still do it by mailing it to yourself. ( I was 17 ) But I read in a looooong ago post that Cryptic has rights to all "toons" made for it's game. How is this gonna suck? Should I contact one o' the boys and find out thier take on what I should do? Any o' you law-dogs got input?
Mass has been in indy comic print by way of my friends basements for ten years. Hell, I would be flattered if he got into the CoH comic with a tear of joy seeing him in color print!
Several of my alts are all his supporting cast of goods and bads from the last ten years as well.
Now, granted, the CoH version can't do everything the comic Mass can, the image, name and all are dead-on. ( with the exception of a full torso red M instead of the smaller CoH M )
Lil' help, anyone.......anyone........Bueller?
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I hopped on this morning while waiting to call in sick to work (just before maintenance) to try and track down some level 40-43 Malta in PI. (Which I'm almost certain don't really exist.) I hit team seek as I normally do.
But, because of the hour, no one grabbed me (and I doubt anyone was hunting Malta, anyways.)
So I needed to be able to solo. But if there was a level 42 boss in any of the mobs, I'd be SOL. Because there is no way that my level 40 Defender is going to be able to solo it now.
That would be like an old equivilant to a +4 or +5 boss. I never even dreamed of that before I3.
Still here, even after all this time!
Oh, BTW Statesman?
Someone mentioned the REALLY COOL idea of showing XP split among "regular" and then showing your "team bonus" seperately. That way people can see the bonus (just like you added the "critical" that shows up for scrappers now.)
Now if I could only get you to add a "Defended" popup that shows how many attacks missed because I debuffed the boss by 80% Accuracy and 30% Damage! Then everyone could see how useful my Dark Miasma Defender is! 
Still here, even after all this time!
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Perhaps you should think about your reasons for disliking soloing in multiplayer games. All I've seen is repeated assertions of "It shouldn't be like that."
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I absolutely agree with this, not neccessarily aimed at who Valerian was referring to but it does seem that many 'pro-groupers' see no reason to allow any soloability except mindless street sweeping, however you rarely, if every see pro-soloists supporting changes which would deter grouping.
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That's understandable. Selfish, but understandable.
I think a lot of pro-groupers have this mindset:
1) If we allow people to solo and group, a large part of them (Y) will solo. Thus, they won't be grouping, so there will be fewer people to group (X).
2) If we disallow soloing, some of those people will quit the game (Y-A), but some will stay and group (Y-B). Thus, the pool of groupers will increase to X + (Y-B). That's a good thing to groupers, because it increases the number of people available for teams. Unfortunately, it's selfish because you're essentially making a group (Y-B) play differently from how they would want to otherwise.*
Soloers don't have this mindset; it doesn't matter how many people want to group to soloers, since they're going to solo anyway. As long as you give soloers access to meaningful content, they're happy.
*: Which would be fine, in most situations, so long as that group knew going into the endeavor that there wouldn't be solo content. This game in particular, however, was and still is advertised as a game where soloing is a viable option. That HAS to mean more than just table scraps leftover from the group content.
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but god help you if you get one of the hidden team missions or missions with an unannounced boss.
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If this happens its a bug. Petition the GMs thats one of the reason they are there.
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And they're going to do what, exactly? The GM will say "Sorry, I can't help you. Go get a team." They have no power to mark a mission complete just because you're unable to complete it. They're not going to help you complete the mission. Petitioning a mission with an unannounced bosses accomplishes nothing, and is, in fact, a negative, as it pulls a GM away from helping someone they might actually be able to help.
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It also indicates that its far better to deliver solo content in other game formats, which is why any MMO is going to place team content first.
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Who defines what's better? You?
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There are plenty of missions solo players can do. Most people can even solo those missions with bosses in them once they adjust. If you stopped assuming every single mission in the game was a single player mission perhaps you would no longer have reason to complain.
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I don't think I've seen anyone demanding that every single mission be soloable. I believe most everyone understands that soloing AV's is just not going to happen for 99.9% of our characters. But, I think we are asking that *most* of the missions we get from our contacts be soloable.
And I'll note, yet again, that doing this in no way makes teaming less attractive, nor does it have *any* negative effect on teaming. As I've said before, bump your slider up and take full teams if you want more challenge.
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missions = 100% of the ongoing content of the game. Making them all soloabel and trivial for groups makes this a nearly 100% solo game. Again it comes back to the point of the people opposing this change thinking nearly 100% of the games content was specifically designed for them.
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Baloney. Absolute baloney. TF's and trials are a substantial percentage of the content of this game. And as noted before, *EVERY* single mission is or can be team-oriented. Just bring a team. How hard is that?
What you don't seem to be able to see is that content *IS* and *CAN BE* multi-purpose - team-oriented and solo-oriented. And that making sure things can be solo-oriented in no way detracts from the content also being team-friendly. And because you can't see this simple fact, your whole crusade is based on a faulty foundation.
It's a sad thing to see.
To whoever mentioned displaying codes or whatever at the contact when missions contain a boss (I'm too tired to hunt back through and find it again), I posted something very similar over in the Suggestions forum not long ago.
So far, I'm fairly negative about the changes to Bosses. Yesterday, my main (lvl 32 D3) and 2 friends (lvl 47 Fire/Dev Blaster-Exemplared and a lvl 27 AR/Dev Blaster) were doing a mission of mine. "Save Crey lab from Freaks"
The mission spawned 10 no-named bosses. Ten. For a 3 character team. No, I wasn't counting Tanks that rezzed twice. 5 at even con, 5 at +1. I was trying to help a friend lose some debt, and get another friend some serious xp. What happened? Debt-Fest '05. The mission didn't even have a boss at the end. Just a named Lieutenant.
I wonder if with the changes to bosses as is, if there shouldn't be changes to how bosses spawn.
I realize that we weren't the ideal team. But, the other two are good friends and members of my SG. Am I supposed to ditch them for pick-up teams now?
Lancelot Strong --
Level 50 Inv/SS Tanker on Triumph [Retired]
Tashkent Zen --
Level 25 Mind/Psi Dominator on Virtue
Hector Slade --
Level 34 SS/WP Brute on Virtue
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Is it any skin off your nose if all you want to do is team, while others like to solo? How does it hurt you in any way if the bosses go back to I2 levels? Bump your difficulty slider all the way up if it's too easy, and take a full team in - the bosses might not be as tough, but they'll be numerous.
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Actually I like to solo and running a low level controller (Ill/Kin) and a higher level one (Ice/FF) I not only solo bosses I have already bumped up the difficulty slider to unyielding. If they go back to I2 levels they will go back to being unchallenging.
The only reason most people can't solo is because they choose not to be able to. If you pick a set like Empathy, powers that don't support solo play or you refuse to learn any strategies for dealing with encounters then you have no place complaining that you can't solo. The tools are there if you don't want to use them don't blame the game.
Blasters have a legitimate gripe since most can't control mobs much but on the other hand being able to 2 shot bosses is ridiculous. Up to the devs to deal with that one.
Game is 10X more interesting since I3.
Perhaps what they really need is some Reduced difficulty levels as well as increased difficulty.
Momma's Boy
Over Easy
Soft Boiled
Hard Boilded
LOL ok maybe the names need work but this is another way to go.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
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And they're going to do what, exactly? The GM will say "Sorry, I can't help you. Go get a team." They have no power to mark a mission complete just because you're unable to complete it. - Valerian
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Actually, they can.
My scrapper got an "find 12 glowies in Orenbega" mission a while back. Fought through the whole thing, but found one glowie was stuck in a wall. I could hear it, but had no way to access it. It was not merely invisible, as I've dealt with those before. There was no way for me to finish the mission.
So I reset in the hopes that the glowies would move around, and went through again. Nine glowies moved, but three stayed in place, including the problem one. I exited & reset a couple more times, and then once again the following day. Using Stealth/SS to zip around quickly, I found that the same three glowies (2 fine, 1 bad) remained in place.
I petitioned, and eventually a GM came on and was able to mark the mission "completed", which I think acutally finished a story arc. Mercifully, I did not have to race through the whole thing again.
Just thought you should know: GMs can mark the mission complete. Though I don't know if they *would* because of an undeclared boss.
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It limits the amount of enjoyment I can get out of the game - either I have to set the slider down, making all other non-boss mobs trivial, or keep the slider high enough to make everything challenging and select non-boss mission only, or make sure there is a healer on the team.
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Quoted to stress that I think that this is a really important point.
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A suggestion - reduce bosses back to where they were, and introduce a new class of mob as powerful as the buffed bosses (ie, call it "Hunter" or "Assassin"). Make it optional for players to have these on their missions somehow, either via mission description or checkbox at the guy that sets mission difficulties. Maybe even a new AI, so it roams throughout the waypoint seeking the heros..... . Now, that would be amazing !
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A nice idea. I think it fits well with the idea of making "named" bosses really be elite bosses, and the "street" bosses you meet are really just "underbosses".
Your idea does additionally address getting named bosses by suprise, which is sucky solo.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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In broad terms, only Scrappers and Blasters have the damage outlay per unit endurance and unit time to defeat the current bosses.
For a same-level boss, these are my observations:
Defenders, as a rule, run out of endurance trying to damage the boss while maintaing self-buffs and foe debuffs, even if they have max-slotted attacks for damage. Defenders not heavily slotted for damage and with a means of heavily buffing themselves, badly debuffing the boss or mezzing the boss simply cannot win alone.
Controllers will run out of endurance holding the boss unless they are pet-enabled and can heavily enhance their pet damage output (/Rad and conditional use of /Kinetcs).
Tankers will run out of endurance trying to damage the boss. Barring this, the fight will be very long and boring.
Blasters have a real crapshoot, depending on how "controlly" their primary and secondary are, and how impressive the boss's ranged attacks are. Taking on a boss with ranged mez with no a) anti-mez inspirations or b) the ability to mez the boss are a guaranteed trip to the hospital. (Note that bosses, by design, open up with their mez attack first if they have one.) Blaster primaries that can do well - Electric Blast (bosses with no End are less scary), Energy Blast (bosses on their butt can't kill you), Energy Manipulation Secondary (Total Focus puts a heavy stun even on bosses). In short, if your alpha strike cannot incapacitate the boss you are probaby dead.
Note that certain APPs invalidate these conclusions once the hero hits level 41. My Dark/Dark Defender is able to defeat bosses by virtue of heavy damage slotting, holds, pets with holds and Conserve Power + 6-slotted stamina. (Without CP she ran out of end.) My Ice Blaster got a second hold power from Fire Mastery, so if he can survive the boss's response to the 1st hold he can immediately hold the boss (assuming he doesn't miss with one of the two holds - 2:20 chance).
Please show me where these analyses break down. Until then the statement that any AT can defeat an I3 boss comes across as nothing but hyperbole. Some builds in all ATs can solo bosses. But even then, in my experience, it's not more fun. It's just longer.
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Where do they break down? My 37 Ice/FF Controller regularly does red and purple bosses. I can even do them without the use of a single inspiration although that makes the fight a lot longer. One example: last night I soloed a 40 Death Mage + 40 Guide. Fight was never in question. With proper slotting I can hold boss, do damage, summon pets and keep my toggles up indefinitely.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
You seem to be fond of quoting Statesman. Whenever someone shouts he/she can't solo anymore, you say Statesman has always said not everybody is supposed to solo. Yet when someone digs up an old quote in which he states everybody should at least be able to solo their own missions, you make no sense anymore. Still defending the devs.
Look, someone made a big boo-boo here. Statesman says this, and then he says that. Missons should be soloable (he says), bosses are not meant to be soloed (he says). Explain then why so many missions have bosses in them. Never mind 'stealthed' boss-missions and their supposed bugginess (which I don't buy for one second by the way. If this has been an issue for months, as has been stated by many, then this should have been fixed months ago). I'm talking about ANY mission with a boss, even those that are announced.
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And they're going to do what, exactly? The GM will say "Sorry, I can't help you. Go get a team." They have no power to mark a mission complete just because you're unable to complete it. - Valerian
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Just thought you should know: GMs can mark the mission complete. Though I don't know if they *would* because of an undeclared boss.
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I've had occasion to call GM's for issues related to not being able to find that last blinky, or for not being able to find that last hostage. Every time, they've either teleported the blinky to me so I can click on it, or they've teleported me to the hostage/blinky and let me kill the guards or click the blinky.
My guess is that, using the awesome power of the GM, they clicked the blinky for you, thus completing your mission.
I'm not entirely sure they can otherwise mark missions complete for you. Perhaps they can. I doubt they would for an undeclared boss. In any case, they have better things to do, like helping people with unfindable blinkies or hostages.
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The only reason most people can't solo is because they choose not to be able to. If you pick a set like Empathy, powers that don't support solo play or you refuse to learn any strategies for dealing with encounters then you have no place complaining that you can't solo. The tools are there if you don't want to use them don't blame the game.
Blasters have a legitimate gripe since most can't control mobs much but on the other hand being able to 2 shot bosses is ridiculous. Up to the devs to deal with that one.
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An excellent attempt at the classic "straw man" arguement tactic, sir! I applaud you!
Nobody's talking about being unable to solo bosses with, say, a Mind/Empath controller. That was virtually impossible in the first place.
And bringing up the old "blasters 2-shot anything" fallacy is a stroke of genius. It makes your arguement seem almost reasonable when, in fact, it is not.
Excellent work!
@Mindshadow
I dont know why people have this idea that elec blasters are so damn good at taking down the new bosses.
If I choose to use SC to try and drain the boss, I will have to get close to the boss and then in 2 full seconds expose myself to his UberBrawlofInstantDeath(tm).
The other choice I have is to drain him using my regular powers. When he is drained using this method, he will be drained of endurance about the same time as his health is below 10%, so in most of the fight, he will be fully capable of fighting.
Also bear in mind that a single miss will give the boss enough time to recover enough endurance to execute UberBrawlofInstantDeath(tm) or a hold, depending on the type of boss.
The blasters that are good at soloing the new bosses are ice (2 holds) and */eng because knockback is king against bosses.
Torden - Lvl 50 Electric blast / Electric manipulation / Electric mastery Blaster - Triumph
General Thrax - Lvl 50 Mercenaries / Poison / Mace mastery Mastermind - Freedom
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The only reason most people can't solo is because they choose not to be able to. If you pick a set like Empathy, powers that don't support solo play or you refuse to learn any strategies for dealing with encounters then you have no place complaining that you can't solo. The tools are there if you don't want to use them don't blame the game.
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Really? Should an Energy/Energy Blaster be able to solo? Up until I3, I was. Sure, bosses were challenging and I would usually die once or twice, but those were named bosses, like Frostfire. However, lately I've been dying repeatedly to unnamed bosses, specifically Jump Bots. I won't go into more detail, but it's no fun breezing through 50 minions to find a Jump Bot that's almost guaranteed to kill me.
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Blasters have a legitimate gripe since most can't control mobs much but on the other hand being able to 2 shot bosses is ridiculous. Up to the devs to deal with that one.
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Not true. I have Sniper Blast 6-slotted, 1 Acc and 5 Dam. Against a con red Jump Bot, I can't even do 25% damage. That's including Build Up. Even before I3 I couldn't 2 shot named bosses, but now that Statesman (whom I don't blame...yet) made the sweeping change to ALL bosses, I need dozens of inspirations and a Rest break to defeat anything over LT.
P.S. I'm a lvl 27 Blaster, have had and enjoyed the game for 2 months after switching from EQ1.
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The blasters that are good at soloing the new bosses are ice (2 holds) and */eng because knockback is king against bosses.
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Well as a level 40 Eng/Eng blaster there are enuff bosses that are resistant to KB that its still impossible to solo them. Also some bosses have ranged KB of their own - which as a blaster screws me. A even-level crey power tank or PP can own me because of their KB attacks.
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Not true. There are a number of missions (most notably the warwolf/shadowhunter ones) which level 50 tanks routinely invite 5 other people, two of which are being powerleveled, to come in the door for. Then they round up all the mobs and kill them, all by themselves. They may use a few defense inspirations during the process, but they use no help whatsoever from teammates.
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While this is somewhat true, the tank would usually ask for help in wiping out the mobs (after they are all nice and stacked) so that it doesn't take him forever.
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Nope. Not the ones I've seen, and I've seen quite a few. As I said, no help herding them up, and no help killing them.
Now, granted, you also have the team efforts where tanks do get help, but there really are a number of tanks that do this all by themselves.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
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My guess is that, using the awesome power of the GM, they clicked the blinky for you, thus completing your mission.
I'm not entirely sure they can otherwise mark missions complete for you. Perhaps they can. I doubt they would for an undeclared boss. In any case, they have better things to do, like helping people with unfindable blinkies or hostages.
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Actually, I wasn't even in the mission when the GM marked it complete.
Never underestimate the power of a GM....
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The mission spawned 10 no-named bosses. Ten. For a 3 character team. No, I wasn't counting Tanks that rezzed twice. What happened? Debt-Fest '05.
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Yes, yes... exactly what happened to me and a friend the other night. We got 7 bosses on a two-person mission and they waxed us completely, we gave up and never finished it.
Before I3 it would have been a battle but one we could handle. Now.., well lets just say I'm afraid to run any missions in case there's a mini AV (aka a boss) present.
States... soon please???
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The guy who didn't get mission XP petitioned it. He got a response that only the mission holder was supposed to get mission XP (what I got wasn't more than usual for mission XP, BTW) and the rest of us should petition to get the XP taken back.
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LOL! so, they're unwilling to let us petition them about removing debt caused by bugs (Issue 2's Rikti Sword bug comes to mind), but they want us to petition them about removing XP?!
Irony? Oh, they're soaking in it. *thumbs up*