[ QUOTE ]
... and I doubt anyone has read every single post.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since I found Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series to be incredibly boring and repetitious after about book 4 or 5, I've stopped buying those as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
<hugs Dasha_Blade>
Thank you! I'm the only one in my group of friends who thinks this way. I'm not crazy!
<runs off cackling wildly>
[/ QUOTE ]
<heh>. I thought it was boring and repetitious after the first HALF book.
Now, Martin's "Song of Fire and Ice"...wow! Wish he'd get the 4th book done, though.
And um...sorry for the thread hijack. Just had to respond, because I cannot, for the life of me, understand the appeal of Jordan's books.
Global Chat Handle: @Greenstar
Active on Justice & Triumph
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I'm sure no one wants me to say this. But in my opinion bosses are actually easier now than they were because of the increased endurance drain of powers. So, what if they hit harder and have more hp... If they have no endurance then all that is pointless, it just takes me about 30 seconds longer to kill them. I have an ele/eng blaster, and with a couple of snipes I can totally drain a boss of endurance, so all he can do is stand there. Just have to make sure I have a couple def buffs before I start the fight.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not to refute this, but the last time I experienced a end-locked Rikti Mesmerest, he spent 100% of his time firing his Mermerize attack, as apparently it costs him near zero endurance. As a result, he managed to break through the Mez resistance of a level 38 Invul Scrapper, pre I3.
So while I'm the very one who brought up end drain a little while ago (because I am sure it cuts out some of any boss's attacks), I know it's no silver bullet.
Edit: Besides, where in the notes did the endurance costs of attacks go up? Especially villian attacks?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quick update:
I've been discussing things with various team members and I've got an "official" meeting today to kick around some ideas about this issue. With luck, I'll post later today - otherwise early next week.
[ QUOTE ]
It is becoming more and more apparent that the real source of much of the discontent is coming from solo players who have appropriated 99% of the games content as their own despite the consistent position of the dev team that this was a team game first and foremost. These people then become outraged when told that not all the content in the game was aimed at them.
Clearly given very consistent message from cryptic and the dev team this is a misconception on the part of these solo players, nothing more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, because God forbid they give the players what we, the paying cutomers want. No, we've "appropriated" the game. We must be whipped back into the Vision(tm).
Yeah, that's a viable busines model.
(BTW - I am VERY pleased that States has replied, and I look forward to his next post. The Devs strike me as pretty reasonable and responsive people - I just happen to feel they've made a mistake here - and a lot of folks apparently agree with me. So I'm not slamming the Devs at this point. I'm slamming the people that adamantly feel the game should be forced into something that it's clear a LOT of players DO NOT WANT.)
Global Chat Handle: @Greenstar
Active on Justice & Triumph
[ QUOTE ]
Quick update:
I've been discussing things with various team members and I've got an "official" meeting today to kick around some ideas about this issue. With luck, I'll post later today - otherwise early next week.
[/ QUOTE ]
States: no matter whether we like the eventual idea or not, thank you for posting even these little "we're thinking!" updates.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe that was the thinking behind the respec? Get an endurance draining power?
Duh DUH
[/ QUOTE ]
And maybe most powersets don't HAVE an endurance draining power available to choose. Perhaps you should check things like that out before you set fingers to keyboard and write something so ill informed and self serving. Duh DUH.
You are right there are probably some instances where you can't drain certain bosses of end, but most can.
I'm not so sure that it costs them more endurance to attack, but they did increase the secondary effects of your powers, my secondary effects happen to be endurance drain.
I like the idea of leadership auras a lot!
Hey, weird idea, why not give each pre-I3 boss, one of the leadership pool powers?
Why not give the Pre-I3 AV's all of them?
Then surround each with *a lot* of minion spawns!
They would then be *bosses* of things. You know, like leaders?
Disadvantages:
1.) Dev coding ( a little change to the boss's/AV's powersets)
2.) Single target AT's having to work a little harder
Advantages:
1.) Gives Knockback AT's something to do (separate out the bosses, and their aura's won't affect as many)
2.) Give AoE people something to do (now you need them to clear out the newly unbuffed, but plentiful minions
Edit:
3.) Give the FF Defenders something to do: put in that fine isolation bubble on those bosses, or else not on the AVs if you want to still make AVs the show stoppers...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since I found Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series to be incredibly boring and repetitious after about book 4 or 5, I've stopped buying those as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
<hugs Dasha_Blade>
Thank you! I'm the only one in my group of friends who thinks this way. I'm not crazy!
<runs off cackling wildly>
[/ QUOTE ]
<heh>. I thought it was boring and repetitious after the first HALF book.
Now, Martin's "Song of Fire and Ice"...wow! Wish he'd get the 4th book done, though.
And um...sorry for the thread hijack. Just had to respond, because I cannot, for the life of me, understand the appeal of Jordan's books.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh [hijack=ON] ugh. couldn't stand Martin's stuff, either. 
The beginning of the first book was excellently macabre and made me want to read more. then the rest of the book happened. Bleagh.
I slogged through it, sold it to a used bookstore and haven't looked back. [/hijack]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... and I doubt anyone has read every single post.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have.
[/ QUOTE ]
As have I.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is becoming more and more apparent that the real source of much of the discontent is coming from solo players who have appropriated 99% of the games content as their own despite the consistent position of the dev team that this was a team game first and foremost. These people then become outraged when told that not all the content in the game was aimed at them.
Clearly given very consistent message from cryptic and the dev team this is a misconception on the part of these solo players, nothing more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, because God forbid they give the players what we, the paying cutomers want. No, we've "appropriated" the game. We must be whipped back into the Vision(tm).
Yeah, that's a viable busines model.
[/ QUOTE ]
I get a kick out of these "teaming was always the way" posts. I've played pretty much every day since release. Despite what manual, players, devs, or anyone says, the game has always been very solo-friendly, at least for the first 80% of the game.
Forgive us if we pay attention to what the devs do, rather than what they say.
[ QUOTE ]
Quick update:
I've been discussing things with various team members and I've got an "official" meeting today to kick around some ideas about this issue. With luck, I'll post later today - otherwise early next week.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's cool, I was going to be playing with your competitor's product until you decide to make this game playable for me again anyway.
Thank you Statesman for the continued updates !
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe that was the thinking behind the respec? Get an endurance draining power?
Duh DUH
[/ QUOTE ]
And maybe most powersets don't HAVE an endurance draining power available to choose. Perhaps you should check things like that out before you set fingers to keyboard and write something so ill informed and self serving. Duh DUH.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe most powersets DO have a power that drains endurance whether it be primary or secondary. Most all my powers are primarily damage and only a few have endurance drain as the secondary effect.
My point is simply that once a boss is drained of endurance it doesn't matter how tough he is. And that is probably why the respec was given.
If you are unfortunate enough to not any powers available that drain endurance then yes, you would be screwed when fighting a boss and therefore forced into grouping with someone. I think that previous post hit the nail on the head... Force grouping is the problem with all this.
SWEET!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, because God forbid they give the players what we, the paying cutomers want.
[/ QUOTE ]
"There's something almost disgusting about this business of letting the audience tell you what they want, and then you go out and make it. The audience doesn't know what it wants."
--John Cleese
Sorry. Totally off topic. But when someone reminds me of a great quote, I just have to post the quote.
I am, however, interested in hearing what comes of this mysterious meeting.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quick update:
I've been discussing things with various team members and I've got an "official" meeting today to kick around some ideas about this issue. With luck, I'll post later today - otherwise early next week.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's cool, I was going to be playing with your competitor's product until you decide to make this game playable for me again anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the update Jack. And in response to the above person, I'll be renewing my subscription this weekend (it expires) and be playing with other people in game on the various team missions (RSKED to a Sister Psyche II TF, then Numina, then a Sewer Trial) as well as running an in game rp event.
And, I might solo my 38 emp/rad defender in the downtime as well. Man, it's fun with these new bosses solo. I swear my hands were shaking when I took down a warhulk solo earlier this week, as it was extremly close battle, up and down, up and down. It's been fun having to change my statagies in missions rather then run in and AoE away like I used to be able to.
Anyways States, thanks for keeping us informed, and if you're ever on Virtue, send Oksah a tell.
Arc #345863 - When The Bough Breaks
"Curse you Perry the Plata...wait, is that Love Handel?" - Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz, Phineas and Ferb
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... and I doubt anyone has read every single post.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have.
[/ QUOTE ]
As have I.
[/ QUOTE ]
as well as i...
the one common thing that i have seen so far, the majority of those that like the new bosses fall into one of two groups..
high level scrappers, or min/maxers.
as i developed my primary hero, i started off as a concept hero, i had a mixture of enhancements and i soloed alot, but as i started to group more often because of the difficulty of my hero to solo (pre I3). and was suggested by my team mates that i should replace all my enhancements and go strictly damage on my attacks and reduce recharge on my buffs. to be able to team up i needed to become a min max to effectively play. now with SOs and being min/maxed i can take on red or purple level LTs, but no home to even take on yellow con boss. and minions under red have become a joke.
boosting the bosses isnt the answer, if we was given more incentive to mix our enhancements instead of min/max the minions wouldnt be childs play.
Freedom
Tannus Level 50 Defender *Level 50 on 08/21/05* - Freedom
Sgt. Robertson Level 50 Master Mind - Freedom
Angus Piper Level 45 Scrapper -Liberty
Cindy Jones Level 26 Arachnos Widow - Liberty
[ QUOTE ]
"There's something almost disgusting about this business of letting the audience tell you what they want, and then you go out and make it. The audience doesn't know what it wants."
--John Cleese
Sorry. Totally off topic. But when someone reminds me of a great quote, I just have to post the quote.
[/ QUOTE ]
The reality is, the best successes come with a realtime adaptive approach to balancing customer want and developer vision. There's no simple playbook ("mix 1 part want with 2 parts vision, set and forget"), otherwise we'd all have wildly successful products.
Regardless of CoH's developer vision, there's a clear customer want that's not being addressed. Well, perhaps it is now. But it's true that the devs shouldn't let customer want dictate all their decisions, all the time. That's as unhealthy as ignoring customer want to begin with.
[ QUOTE ]
Quick update:
I've been discussing things with various team members and I've got an "official" meeting today to kick around some ideas about this issue. With luck, I'll post later today - otherwise early next week.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you very much, Statesman!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe that was the thinking behind the respec? Get an endurance draining power?
Duh DUH
[/ QUOTE ]
And maybe most powersets don't HAVE an endurance draining power available to choose. Perhaps you should check things like that out before you set fingers to keyboard and write something so ill informed and self serving. Duh DUH.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe most powersets DO have a power that drains endurance whether it be primary or secondary. Most all my powers are primarily damage and only a few have endurance drain as the secondary effect.
My point is simply that once a boss is drained of endurance it doesn't matter how tough he is. And that is probably why the respec was given.
If you are unfortunate enough to not any powers available that drain endurance then yes, you would be screwed when fighting a boss and therefore forced into grouping with someone. I think that previous post hit the nail on the head... Force grouping is the problem with all this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not even most *archetypes* have access to a power with endurance drain as an effect, let alone most *powersets*. I count:
Blaster:
Electrical Blast, most powers - 1 out of 5 primary sets
Electricity Manipulation, most powers - 1 out of 5 secondary sets
Total: 9 out of 25 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Controller:
0 out of 6 primary sets
Kinetics (Transference only) + Storm Summoning (Lightning Storm only) - 2 out of 5 secondary sets (only two powers)
Total: 12 out of 30 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Defender:
Kinetics and Storm Summoning as above - 2 out of 6 primary sets
Electrical Blast, most powers - 1 out of 5 secondary sets
Total: 14 out of 30 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Scrapper:
0 out of 6 primary sets
0 out of 4 secondary sets
Total: 0 out of 24 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Tank:
0 out of 4 primary sets
0 out of 7 secondary sets
Total: 0 out of 28 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Peacebringer:
0 out of 1 primary set
0 out of 1 secondary set
Total: 0 out of 1 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Warshade:
0 out of 1 primary set
0 out of 1 secondary set
Total: 0 out of 1 combinations have some kind of end drain.
All told, 35 out of the 139 possible builds have access to some form of end drain - approximately 25%. Hardly enough to rely on being able to find for a boss battle... particularly considering that a fair number of *those* are in the form of late-game powers (Defender/Controller: L26/35 Kinetics->Transference and L32/38 Storm Summoning->Lightning Storm account for 8 of the 14 defenders and *all 12* of the controllers).
Kam
[ QUOTE ]
And in response to the above person, I'll be renewing my subscription this weekend (it expires) and be playing with other people in game on the various team missions (RSKED to a Sister Psyche II TF, then Numina, then a Sewer Trial) as well as running an in game rp event.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well take one of the Boss-able AT's with you then because the overwhelming number of bosses will tear you a new one. 
Hmm... maybe soloing IS the answer. You just run the same mission over and over until the disparity in levels between you and the boss(es - hey there's only supposed to be 1.5 per hero... supposedly) is more managable. Wouldn't that be ironic... and boring as all get out?
What I really don't understand is why the change if we now have the slider. Hey if you want it more challenging, just crank that sucker up and go on your way. But then the slider would need to affect the level of the mobs instead of the quantity of the mobs. 
Well, I'm glad that you are meeting to discuss the changes States, I think its only reasonable to do so. After all, responding to and considering customer concerns is good business.
I think increasing boss HP and Damage is not the way to make the game more difficult in the 25+ range. Its an easy way to do it, but not the right way IMO. I think adding more buff and debuff abilities to bosses and other mobs in that range makes more sense, and would serve to make the game more difficult.
I've been thinking about the 25+ range, and it occurs to me, that 25 is exactly when most of my toons start to feel like heroes, and its because thats when you can get Stamina fully slotted and start getting SOs. The only problem with balancing the game for Stamina and SOs is it penalizes those who dont go for the cookie-cutter tweaked builds. Making fitness inherrent might work around that though.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
Not sure if I'm off topic here, and I'm sorry if this has been suggested already (got through about 1/2 the thread before giving up) ...
Just an idea for a Boss fix.
1) Put the bosses back the way they were.
2) Give bosses, and to a lesser extent lts, an invincibility-like innate power that buffs them based on the number of lower ranked mobs within their area of effect. Basically, the bosses are tougher when they have more guys around to support them.
3) Give bosses, and to a lesser extent lts, a mild leadership-like innate power that buffs lower ranked mobs within their area of effect. Different types of bosses might give different types of buffs. So minions are tougher when supported by a boss.
Call it a "Leader Aura" or something.
Teams would have it tougher because the large spawns would have supported bosses in them. Soloers who want more challenge could do so just by using the mission difficulty slider already in place (which increases, in theory, spawn numbers). Players could compensate for the added difficulty by using strategy (e.g., pulling or TPing minions away first exposing the boss, using knockback powers to spread out the field and "disrupt their coordination", etc.) or tactics (e.g., take out the minions first, etc.).
This would essentially make bosses tougher, last longer, and be more than just tougher bad guys. Also, since bosses wouldn't buff or get buffed by other bosses, then boss-heavy missions like the TV respec TF would come back down to a more doable level, while still getting a slight boost in difficulty (there are some non-boss mobs in there).
Plus, it would be an easily tweakable system. You would just need to adjust the amount and types of buffs until you get the balance you want.