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Maybe that was the thinking behind the respec? Get an endurance draining power?
Duh DUH
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And maybe most powersets don't HAVE an endurance draining power available to choose. Perhaps you should check things like that out before you set fingers to keyboard and write something so ill informed and self serving. Duh DUH.
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Maybe most powersets DO have a power that drains endurance whether it be primary or secondary. Most all my powers are primarily damage and only a few have endurance drain as the secondary effect.
My point is simply that once a boss is drained of endurance it doesn't matter how tough he is. And that is probably why the respec was given.
If you are unfortunate enough to not any powers available that drain endurance then yes, you would be screwed when fighting a boss and therefore forced into grouping with someone. I think that previous post hit the nail on the head... Force grouping is the problem with all this.
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Not even most *archetypes* have access to a power with endurance drain as an effect, let alone most *powersets*. I count:
Blaster:
Electrical Blast, most powers - 1 out of 5 primary sets
Electricity Manipulation, most powers - 1 out of 5 secondary sets
Total: 9 out of 25 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Controller:
0 out of 6 primary sets
Kinetics (Transference only) + Storm Summoning (Lightning Storm only) - 2 out of 5 secondary sets (only two powers)
Total: 12 out of 30 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Defender:
Kinetics and Storm Summoning as above - 2 out of 6 primary sets
Electrical Blast, most powers - 1 out of 5 secondary sets
Total: 14 out of 30 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Scrapper:
0 out of 6 primary sets
0 out of 4 secondary sets
Total: 0 out of 24 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Tank:
0 out of 4 primary sets
0 out of 7 secondary sets
Total: 0 out of 28 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Peacebringer:
0 out of 1 primary set
0 out of 1 secondary set
Total: 0 out of 1 combinations have some kind of end drain.
Warshade:
0 out of 1 primary set
0 out of 1 secondary set
Total: 0 out of 1 combinations have some kind of end drain.
All told, 35 out of the 139 possible builds have access to some form of end drain - approximately 25%. Hardly enough to rely on being able to find for a boss battle... particularly considering that a fair number of *those* are in the form of late-game powers (Defender/Controller: L26/35 Kinetics->Transference and L32/38 Storm Summoning->Lightning Storm account for 8 of the defenders and *all 12* of the controllers).
Kam
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Ok, smarty pants, so like we're all saying, you are forced to group with some builds now. Statesman and his crew are aware of this and apparently are working on a solution.
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Maybe that was the thinking behind the respec? Get an endurance draining power?
Duh DUH
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And maybe most powersets don't HAVE an endurance draining power available to choose. Perhaps you should check things like that out before you set fingers to keyboard and write something so ill informed and self serving. Duh DUH.
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Maybe most powersets DO have a power that drains endurance whether it be primary or secondary.
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Please do enlighten me on the majority of powersets that DO have endurance drain. Before you do you might want to read Kamaenda's post that pretty much outlined it statistically. You are simply flat out wrong. So again, check it out before you state something so clearly wrong and unsupported and then insult people with your arrogant "Duh DUH". Or else just stay under the bridge in the first place.
My $0.02: I like the boss changes. They make battles more fun for my SG (the main team is high 40's) and even the level 50's actually die some now. It wouldn't hurt my feelingsl, however, if the tougher bosses only kicked in after tweaking the slider a notch or two.
PS. For those that are interested in high level content: We are about 1/2 through the Storm Palace TF right now, fighting mostly 52s, with 4 50's and 4 48/49's on the default difficulty, and it is a lot of fun. Someone typically dies each mission and we really have to play tight to do well. Some of the groups have six L52 bosses! Somehow, the SS TFs got a bad rap, but we have done Chantry and now this and are really liking them. Good stuff.
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Well take one of the Boss-able AT's with you then because the overwhelming number of bosses will tear you a new one. 
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Fire/fire tank
Elec/elect blaster
Ill/rad controller
MA/SR scrapper
emp/dark def
me, emp/rad for SS II
But that's just the thing, a team of people are supposed to be able to take out bosses. These are all characters we've had since day 1 (Well, those 5 were in beta, I started a bit late). As such, we each know how to work as a team, know what works and what doesn't.
"A lot of those are broken/FotM builds/boss soloable builds" True. With them I'm not concerned with my SS TF. Don't know the peeps on the other two missions, those will be a challenge.
As to my soloing, it's definatly a change when I see a boss now. Would I mind if they rolled back the changes some? Not really, it does take a while on a boss. Can I live with the changes, adept my soloing style and carry a different range of insps.
Arc #345863 - When The Bough Breaks
"Curse you Perry the Plata...wait, is that Love Handel?" - Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz, Phineas and Ferb
They need to do something to make bosses more difficult than they were though. Before I3 they were just too easy. now they are just way too hard.
has to be a medium somewhere. Although it just basically made me change my target selection. No big deal
As honestly, I would hope to god that Cryptic doesnt give the players what they want. Everyone wants a different thing. Personally, i want this game to be group emphasized more than it is. But thats me. I dont expect the devs to do that, any more than people that treat COH as a single player game want forced grouping.
I want the devs to make the game they envision COH to be, and let those who like it play it if you dont share their vision, cancel.
shrug.
Hi Statesman,
I just sent in a /bug (with mission name + contact + boss's name) about a Family mission that included a named boss with no indication from my contact that there would be anything other than the usual minions and lieuts. On the second mission (same contact) I did, there was a clear indication of a boss.
I could be wrong (and forgive me if this has been brought up before), but it occurs to me that there's always indication of a boss when defeating the boss is one of the mission objectives. But, when the mission just includes a named boss whose defeat is not an objective, he isn't always included in the description.
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Yes, because God forbid they give the players what we, the paying cutomers want.
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"There's something almost disgusting about this business of letting the audience tell you what they want, and then you go out and make it. The audience doesn't know what it wants."
--John Cleese
Sorry. Totally off topic. But when someone reminds me of a great quote, I just have to post the quote.
I am, however, interested in hearing what comes of this mysterious meeting.
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The best business saying I've ever heard (and, hence, I've seen it on only two motivational posters) went:
"The customer is not always right, but the customer is always THE CUSTOMER."
That's always the challenge with customers, I think. A lot of them don't know what they want and, if asked, will give you the wrong answer. A truly gifted business person knows how to listen to the customer's demands and see what would really satify them best... usually something that hasn't entered the dialogue yet.
However, I've seen some good thoughts in this discussion and I think a lot of insight into what CoH customers want has been shown. I think there's good material here.
I am pretty sure the scrapper primary Dark Melee has a power which can drain endurance, can't speak for the rest.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
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Maybe most powersets DO have a power that drains endurance whether it be primary or secondary.
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They do...?
Claws... no. Super Strength... no. Illusion Control... no. Empathy... no. Ice Melee... no. Radiation Emission... no. Energy Blast... no. Mind Control... no. Martial Arts... Assault Rifle... no. Force Field... no. Earth Control... no. Broadsword... no. Stone Armor... no.
I could keep doing this for a while. 
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Maybe that was the thinking behind the respec? Get an endurance draining power?
Duh DUH
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And maybe most powersets don't HAVE an endurance draining power available to choose. Perhaps you should check things like that out before you set fingers to keyboard and write something so ill informed and self serving. Duh DUH.
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Maybe most powersets DO have a power that drains endurance whether it be primary or secondary.
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Please do enlighten me on the majority of powersets that DO have endurance drain. Before you do you might want to read Kamaenda's post that pretty much outlined it statistically. You are simply flat out wrong. So again, check it out before you state something so clearly wrong and unsupported and then insult people with your arrogant "Duh DUH". Or else just stay under the bridge in the first place.
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The issue is not whether or not I'm right or wrong or arrogant (I put the "Duh" thing in there becaus Kam called me selfish for saying I liked the changes, figured if he could dish it out he could take it) There are plenty of builds that have end drain and plenty that don't. The real issue is apparently "forced grouping"
Ok, I know it's likely this post will be lost in the billion-page thread, but what about this:
The biggest problem with bosses seems to be that the Controller-Defender-Blaster is often taken down on virtually the first hit or few hits- with little time to respond.
What if the high-damage bosses had their damage changed to 1/2 initial and 1/2 Damage over Time. This way, a player could have the opportunity to take an inspiration / heal a friend.
A similar way would be to give players a brief 3-5 second "grace period" before they collapse, where inspirations could be taken or a heal would be given. It would fit the comic book concept of a nearly-defeated hero reaching in for that last burst of strength- even after all seemed lost. This would eliminate all "1-shot kill" complaints.
I know in my battles, we have defense buffs running to the point we can usually take on larger foe (leadership + invisibility + others) but our damage bars exist at two levels- completely full or completely empty. Forget healing- we're either 100% or leaving the hospital...
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They need to do something to make bosses more difficult than they were though. Before I3 they were just too easy. now they are just way too hard.
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They were too easy compared to what? Minions? They were a hell of a lot harder then minions to take out. AVs? They were easy compared to AVs, but then, what's wrong with that. I think the yardstick you need to use is whether or not most people thought they were the best way of gaining fast influence and experience and, frankly, they weren't. Bosses sucked for experience. Yes, it wasn't hard to take them out, but it took about ten times as long as an equivalent level minions and you got only about three times as much for them. People avoided them except during the levels they didn't need experience anywhere near as badly as they needed influence, because the influence and drops you got from bosses were barely better then those of minons compared to their difficulty level.
If you haev some sort of arbitrary idea about how hard bosses need to be, then I have to wonder why you have that idea. I have heard that Statesman thinks that most boss types should neo be soloable by most players. I have yet to hear his rationale for this decision though. If trying to hew to the combic book genre, most heroes can take out most merely boss types. It's not like the boss is an archvillain, and a lot of solo heroes were even capable of taking on what I would consider archvillains.
Now, granted, in superhero team comic books, for the most part, individual heroes were not able to deal with major threats, but that's just because they were comics about superhero teams. In the comics featuring one particular superhero that one was always somehow able to deal with the threats he/she was faced with.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
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A similar way would be to give players a brief 3-5 second "grace period" before they collapse, where inspirations could be taken or a heal would be given. It would fit the comic book concept of a nearly-defeated hero reaching in for that last burst of strength- even after all seemed lost. This would eliminate all "1-shot kill" complaints.
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Sounds like a good idea...
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Maybe that was the thinking behind the respec? Get an endurance draining power?
Duh DUH
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And maybe most powersets don't HAVE an endurance draining power available to choose. Perhaps you should check things like that out before you set fingers to keyboard and write something so ill informed and self serving. Duh DUH.
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Maybe most powersets DO have a power that drains endurance whether it be primary or secondary.
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Please do enlighten me on the majority of powersets that DO have endurance drain. Before you do you might want to read Kamaenda's post that pretty much outlined it statistically. You are simply flat out wrong. So again, check it out before you state something so clearly wrong and unsupported and then insult people with your arrogant "Duh DUH". Or else just stay under the bridge in the first place.
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No kidding. "Just use a power that drains a boss's endurance"? Why didn't I think of that with my controller?
"Geez, why doesn't everybody just use their pets on the bosses as well. All those Invuln. tanks who were so upset at the changes should just make more effective use of their pets."
"Most" ATs don't get even a single power to drain an enemy's endurance. Even out of all of the powers that DO get a endurance drain power, they may only get 1 or 2, which won't necessarily empty a boss's endurance in time to do any good (ie. stop him from smooshing you).
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I am pretty sure the scrapper primary Dark Melee has a power which can drain endurance, can't speak for the rest.
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Several powersets have powers that hurt foes (moderately) to give you endurance. Only Kinetics and Electricity (edit: and Storm's lightning strike) actually drain it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I am pretty sure the scrapper primary Dark Melee has a power which can drain endurance, can't speak for the rest.
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Several powersets have powers that hurt foes (moderately) to give you endurance. Only Kinetics and Electricity actually drain it.
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My mistake. Sorry.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
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My mistake. Sorry.
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Come on, man! Someone with your post count should know everything.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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My mistake. Sorry.
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Come on, man! Someone with your post count should know everything.
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I know enough too own up to my mistakes when I know I've got it wrong, how's that grab you. 
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
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I am pretty sure the scrapper primary Dark Melee has a power which can drain endurance, can't speak for the rest.
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Dark Consumption from Dark Melee. It drains end from the mobs and transfers it to the Scrapper.
I think Soul Transfer does as well, but that's a self-revive in the Dark Armour set.
Okay, I'd like to retract some of my earlier statements concerning the boss changes.
While the new bosses are considerably tougher, you can still take them on with a moderate change in play style. I use a 36 Rad Rad defender on Justice. I previously stated that I could not even take on an even boss. After some careful reslotting of my attacks (NB, Xray and CB reslotted from 1 Acc and 4 dmg to 1 Acc, 3 Dmg, 1 Def Debuff) and utilizing 2 def SOs in hover, I am able to take on what I used to and solo my missions at Tenacious without too much difficulty. I can face mobs of up to 7 evens (minions and lieuts) with 1 yellow boss provided I am utilizing EF, RI & CC. The new bosses are a handful and mobs usually require me to pop a couple of insp but beating them just requires a change in tactics. The tactics stated previous don't require me to heal myself much if at all. Overall I think that things will be fine.
Just my 2 cents (canadian)
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I am pretty sure the scrapper primary Dark Melee has a power which can drain endurance, can't speak for the rest.
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Dark Consumption from Dark Melee. It drains end from the mobs and transfers it to the Scrapper.
I think Soul Transfer does as well, but that's a self-revive in the Dark Armour set.
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Dark Consumption (and all fiery Consumption powers) damage the foe and give you endurance. They do not steal endurance from foes.
Based on it's description, I think Soul Transfer is the same, but I've never used it or seen it used.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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(I put the "Duh" thing in there becaus Kam called me selfish for saying I liked the changes, figured if he could dish it out he could take it)
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Side note - that looks to have been Reverb, not me. My first post on this topic (although not this thread) was the statistical one. I prefer to lay out facts, not insult other posters...
Kam
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Maybe most powersets DO have a power that drains endurance whether it be primary or secondary. Most all my powers are primarily damage and only a few have endurance drain as the secondary effect.
My point is simply that once a boss is drained of endurance it doesn't matter how tough he is. And that is probably why the respec was given.
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No offence, but what are you talking about? Pretty much the ONLY power sets that have ANY endurance draining powers are the electric sets, and only two ATs have any access to them at all.
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All told, 35 out of the 139 possible builds have access to some form of end drain - approximately 25%. Hardly enough to rely on being able to find for a boss battle... particularly considering that a fair number of *those* are in the form of late-game powers (Defender/Controller: L26/35 Kinetics->Transference and L32/38 Storm Summoning->Lightning Storm account for 8 of the defenders and *all 12* of the controllers).
Kam
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And two of those sets really do not count ... Kinetics and Storm Summoning will never be able to drain enough endurance with their single power to make a significant difference.
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Quick update:
I've been discussing things with various team members and I've got an "official" meeting today to kick around some ideas about this issue. With luck, I'll post later today - otherwise early next week.
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Thank you! Please look into how many bosses are spawning on some maps/trials/task forces if you want a boss to be greater than a hero. We did an outdoor mission with 4 people... every other spawn had 3 bosses in it, with a slew of minions/lts. Its not just about solo play.