Amberyl...
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Many players come to MMOGs not for the social interaction, but for the dynamic nature of the world. They don't need to make friends. They have friends. You'll note that when many people talk about teaming, they talk about teaming up with a spouse or a significant other, or their kids, or their real-life friends. They're looking to CoH for a way to do something fun with people they already know, when it's mutually convenient -- and to solo when their friends aren't on.
Yes, it's fun to chat with people online. But CoH actually doesn't support chat terribly well, although this is improving with the addition of global chat. But CoH is also a fast-paced, high-attention game. I can't carry on a conversation while in the midst of combat. And lots of teams are pretty silent -- a lot of times, the only things said are "pull", "wait", "end", and "Ready!". Indeed, the bigger the team, the less random chatter happens. I think most of my "it was cool to meet you" interactions have occurred in duos, and the occasional team of 3 or 4.
As others have already mentioned, teams also don't really let you savor the content at your own pace, or get immersed in a storyline. They are also unworkable for a lot of people who don't have a lot of time to play, or need to spend unpredictable amounts of time AFK. A lot of missions are completable in 20 minutes, solo; looking for a team sucks up time that could readily be spent in enjoyable play.
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BINGO.
I couldn't have said this better myself. In fact I've tried to say it many times but never said it this well. This is exactly right.
F
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Keep that in mind as your competitors. A lot of players like me are paying for CoH despite the MMO aspect. A lot of us picked up the game thinking "I can't imaging paying a monthy fee to pay a game I've already paid for." with our friends' enthusiastic endorsements winning us over. The MMO has always sounded like a hassle and CoH had (until I3) found a balance that made the MMO much less of a hassle than we thought. Now it's getting to be a hassle since we have to do it. Why bother loading up CoH if I'm gonna log on, find out conditions aren't ideal for teaming (low pop in the right zones, my SG all offline, etc) and close the game? Why not just load up The Sims 2 instead?
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While it wouldn't be The Sims 2 for me, the rest is spot on. A year ago if you had asked me if I would be playing a MMOG, I would have laughed in your face.
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I could not hold a +1 Rulari boss (the eye thing) with *three* Dark Servants and my own hold power (that has a hold duration in it.) Or if the holds took, it wore off almost immediately.
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IMX, those eye-guys are highly resistance to holds. Are you noticing this w/ other mobs? Say, Crey meaty Council or Nemesis?
Please post on the Controller or Defender forums. I haven't noticed any changes to holds in general in I3, although I haven't been playing my controllers much. Several mobs seem to have increased resistance . . .
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BTW, you can still solo just fine in CoH if you care to but it's not reasonable to expect to be able to do everything the game has to offer if you do.
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First off...I like teaming. I really do. I team as often as I can. I have a great SG, and many RL friends I team with. I even do the occasional pickup group. About half the time, the pickup group is worth my time.
However, about half my playing time is at odd hours. Early morning before I go to work. Mid-afternoon when I get home from work until just before dinner time. Often, I have to interrupt my playing time to help with the kids, or go pick them up from the sitter, or cook dinner, or whatever. So, I solo a lot, too.
I get the occasional playing time in the evenings, and do like to set up times to do TF's and trials. I've done all the TF's that were accessible to my chars prior to I2, and plan to do the rest of them whenever I can. Those, of course, are not soloable. In fact, there's a lot of content in the game that's not soloable for the vast majority of characters.
I don't see anyone asking to be able to solo *EVERYTHING*. Just to be able to reasonable solo the vast majority of the missions we get from our personal contacts - as was possible for everyone up until I3.
Very, very few of us have ever been able to solo AV's. Or monsters, if the monsters were anywhere near our level. (Ok, so in I2 I stood toe-to-toe with Terra for a veeeeery long time, since I was also surrounded by minions to buff my DEF. I couldn't beat her, though, because she regenned faster than I could take her down.) And I don't see anyone having a problem with that. You should *EXPECT* to have to get a group together to take down an AV, or a close-to-your-level monster.
And I don't see anyone saying they expect to be able to solo Task Forces and Trials, either. You should *EXPECT* to have to group in order to do those. They are, clearly, group-oriented activities. Yes, you do hear of the occasional story "I started X TF, and the whole group dropped out, but I went ahead, and managed to finish it." Those are far from commonplace, and should be considered anomalies - nothing that should require any kind of "fix."
But, the new boss change has had a profound effect on the ability of 3/5s of the AT's in the game - and probably 75% of the existing characters, at a guess. Most defenders, controllers, and blasters now have a very, very hard time soloing any even-con boss (same level, which comes up orange.) Many scrappers and tankers can still do it, though it's far more difficult and time-consuming.
Plus, the new boss change has, I'm sure, had a negative effect on TF's and Trials, too, not to mention large-team missions. With as many bosses that spawn on these types of missions, it has, at worst, made them un-doable, and at best, made them more grinding.
Again, my suggestion:
Put "generic" bosses back to I2 levels. Maybe buff them up 25%. Maybe make them tougher the higher you place the difficulty slider.
Keep the "named" bosses at I3 levels, though I believe their damage should be dropped by 25% or so. They hit way too hard, especially for the "squishies." And make sure that all mission texts are gone over with a fine-toothed comb, to ensure that the text you see when you're pondering accepting the mission specifies whether there's a named boss present.
Note: It's very important that you don't get something like this in the contact's mission selection window:
Go Rescue the hostages from the Freakshow!
and then get this once you selected the mission from your contact:
By the way, you'll need help, because you'll be facing Dreck!
Or, seeing, once you select the mission for your nav bar:
Arrest Dreck and his crew, rescue 5 hostages.
This is what happens when devs learn from SoE.
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Holds only have hold duration increases. With *FOUR* things spamming holds, that should be enough to lock a boss down.
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This is only my understanding, but I was under the impression that multiple holds don't increase the length of the hold they only add to the magnitude. I don't know all the magnitudes, but as an example:
Say a lvl 32 boss has a resistances of -8. To hold him you need to get that to zero. You cast your hold of magnitude 4, and each dark servant cast their magnitude 2 hold, giving you a total 2 on the boss he is held. However, when your hold falls off durations wise he is back to -2 and free.
The other thing to consider is that some bosses have resistance to holds/disorients which shorten the time supposedly. This is the reason you may want to try the same confrontation with hold enhancements. I would be interested in the results as this post is based off things I have read on the boards not actual experience.
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The only changes I've found so far in the Hollows is some graphical changes to the Outcasts, some badges, and the caverns trial now has a level cap. In fact, one of the Hollows cave missions has even been made easier. There used to be a mission with two named bosses fighting in the last room, Greased Lightning and Redrum. Now poor Redrum has gone AWOL and Greased Lightning is forced to fight a lowly Gardvord. Go figure.
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I did that mission last night with a team of 8. We ran into three named bosses that I recall in that mish. I was mostly there as an XP leech, unfortunately, since my mind controller could only get a third of her holds to hit.
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I would be curious to see what the actual increase in boss status effect resistance was. I used to be able to use Blind by itself to chain-hold a boss with no problem using only 1 accuracy SO and perma-Hasten to bring down the recharge time. Now, a considerable percentage of my hold attacks seem to miss, and the ones that do hit don't seem to hold as long. Is that just me?
Note: I know my Blind is underslotted! 
It's never been an issue up to now, that's all I'm saying.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a change where the devs wanted to encourage slotting of hold powers. Are the patch notes for yesterday up yet?
To me, the easy solution here is how contacts are requested. Batman (90% solo) has a different set of contacts (missions that a sinlge hero should handle) and storyarcs than say, the X-men (90% group), whom really need the group to do the butt-kicking in storyarcs.
So I guess what I am getting at, will there ever be contacts for supergroups and those who love to team and want the real challenge, but to feel heroic at the same time? Or could we have a set of contacts that are essentially for teaming (other than task forces)?
One other random thought, maybe it might be possible to have randomly spawning rare contacts for highly dangerous, cool, or specialized story arcs and missions? Something along the lines of Giant Monsters but as missions. How cool would that be?
Hephaestus, Thanks for reminding me to update my Alts lvl :]
The Mission I did was at my Current lvl of 24 and yes i do have SO's for 95% of my powers. I should be lvl 25 tonight or tomarrow,and then i will go after a Boss solo and see if I can do them. Will let you know.
Junkyard Wolf
California Smog(CoV)
Far Rider
Durango Dave
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States, it has been the experience of a great many players (mentioned on other threads) that *multiple* unnamed bosses show up on missions that they entered alone.
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I'll check this!
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This has ONLY happened to me after I took a difficulty rating of Unyielding or higher. And I LIKE it a lot. Leave it alone, other people aren't real anyway. LOL
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
This idea I really like. . . . Soloists could take 3 solo-mission contacts. Strict teamers could take 3 team-mission contacts. And people like me could take 1 team and 2 solo contacts. The soloists would not get to see a lot of content if they don't team. The teamers could take teams on their solo missions and have them scale appropriately. AVs could only appear on team contact missions. Blah blah blah.
However, it is an awful lot of content to re-examine, codify, strike out specific parts, add new pieces, and create.
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I could not hold a +1 Rulari boss (the eye thing) with *three* Dark Servants and my own hold power (that has a hold duration in it.) Or if the holds took, it wore off almost immediately.
[/ QUOTE ] IMX, those eye-guys are highly resistance to holds. Are you noticing this w/ other mobs? Say, Crey meaty Council or Nemesis?
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I've always had trouble holding even-level Rularuu bosses, even prior to Issue 3. This with the same character that, post-issue-3, could perma-hold a +3 Carnie boss without great difficulty (assuming I didn't get one-shotted first). Rularuu bosses just have a much higher magnitude, it seems.
@Mindshadow
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Hephaestus, Thanks for reminding me to update my Alts lvl :]
The Mission I did was at my Current lvl of 24 and yes i do have SO's for 95% of my powers. I should be lvl 25 tonight or tomarrow,and then i will go after a Boss solo and see if I can do them. Will let you know.
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Good luck. By all reports is will be possible for your tank, but very slow, but might be imopossible for your defender when that char meets 25+ bosses.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
I think it all boils down to one issuse:
Choice
A player should be able to to choose if and when they want to solo and when they what to group.
If Statesman wants us to group then reward those who group:
Reward Large SG's with cool bases.
Reward teams with more mission options.
Reward teams with contacts with cell phones sooner.
Reward team missions with temporary team powers.
There is allways the option of increasing XP and drops as groups get bigger.
Please try to motivate people to group rather than punish then for not teaming.
Punishing the toons that choose to solo or are forced to solo because of RL constraints will only discourage them from continuing to play.
Bosses spawning at the highest lvl of the group can discourage teams as well as it's not always possible to get a tight group within a small lvl range.
Please - let the boss lvl be tied to the difficulty slider.
Increasing the bosses without giving choice to the player discouages more people than it helps.
Since there are very few heros that can one shot kill a boss why are there so many instances of bosses one shot killing the hero?
A better fix would have been to give bosses a wider variety of powers.
Imangine a boss that would (infrequently) Wormhole the tank or scapper to another room or floor causing the remaining heroes to change tatics.
Or a boss power that would 'cap' a minion for defense or attack.
I love the idea of giving bosses some the the Leadership pool powers.
Just increasing base HP's doesn't slove the fact that a boss is challenging for some and not for others.
This only makes the fight longer for some (and boring) and difficult to impossible for the rest.
Since I3 it's has been frustratingly slow to do missions and or hunt.
I know that this was the point but since I didn't have an 'Uber' build before the change it only made it more frustrating.
Some of us actually build a toon based on an idea or history, not extensive data mining.
There are many type of people that play CoH.
I'm sure all of them don't have the time or interest to read the forums and guides.
For those that do and build an 'uber' toon from day one - please don't complain that it's too easy.
Start over with a different build and try again.
Let the majority (especially those that don't bother to post often) enjoy the content.
Unfortunately the causal gamer is more likely to quit playing rather than hunt down the proper forum and express their concerns.
The boss that one shot kills is reducing the game to binary levels.
Tatics and smart playing are generaly rewarded but a 1 hit kill doesn't give a toon much time to adjust their tatics.
I would love to see more rewards for Role playing as well.
Getting a random drop or Inf for taking the time to chat with civilians.
Getting a bonus Inspiration if your toon logs at the same point on a regular basis (until we have bases)
Random doors that open to: New Contact / Mini mission / Inspiration Store
Following a running civilian into a door: Mini mission.
Dev's - good job so far. Please keep up the good work, but remember: for every person that posts there are probably 5 that have never seen the forums but still love the game.
Confirmed alt-aholic
Comments not aimed at previous poster - just hit reply.
My experience with I3 changes is mainly with a duo of my main (claws/regen) and a Emp/Dark defender - both lvl 28 then 29 since I3 hit.
Since I3 we have had one dirtnap due to a boss (even con so Orange) this was entirely due to a mistake on our part caused by not being 100% familiar with our respecced powers. My GF forgot that one power was cone effect not single target and caused aggro one herself that shouldn't have been there. She was 2 shotted.
Even level bosses (on their own) are not a problem for us, the fight is quick < 30 secs and never in doubt.
Bosses + minions/lts in one fight get hectic, but with candy they go fine.
We did some Banished Pantheon Missions were there were several +1 Totems, and those boys were fights that whilst never in much doubt were a tad hair raising.
Now since the free respec - we are actually having an easier time killing I3 bosses, than we were having with I2 bosses pre-respec (I'd messed my build up that much).
Now when we did some 8 person grouping, that was different. The Purple conning DE/CoT bosses (+2 and +3) went down quickly, but if the team made a mistake then someone was in for a really rough time - had to laugh at a junior SG mate who wanted to try his temporary power out and insisted of firing the first shot for one group - instant dirt nap.
He learnt a lot about how bad aggro is for a squishy in that single lesson. (we worked of his debt by mission end though)
Statesman - I'm not a regular poster to Dev type threads, I play the game rather than spending time here.
Ever since I played this game (Oct IIRC) I have seen unmentioned bosses when solo'ing. Indeed I have lost count of the number of times I have said to my GF about why is there a tougher +1 boss in a mission, when the named boss is even leveled.
I'm sure your data mining will show this, and thank you for taking the time to examine this.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
I think the big things here are as follows:
1) Teams were taking bosses too easily
2) Solo players. bosses were either easy or hard depeding upon the Player and the AT choices
A] Upping the boss levels will make things harder for a team, but they make them extreemly difficult for some players, impossible for others, and a good challenge for some.
What I think needs to happen is a combination of 2 things:
1) Solo should be the same as it was Pre-I3 for the DEFAULT difficulty level. Turning up the slider will add difficulty to all mobs in the mission/spawns. So all solo players can be happy here.
2) Missions that have team entry, should up the boss difficulty as there is a Team present (I think team should in this case be 3+ players, as you really need 3 to get the most spread of powers, etc...)
3) Team missions would also work off of the difficulty slider as well.
The idea here is to make things harder for those that want it, more in balance for teams, and keep the difficulty slider in place to enhance all enemy mobs for those that want it.
From my experience playing a low level alt, and my main (just Lv35) - both blasters (all be it different power sets), the low level toon has an easier time with bosses than the Lv35 (who has max slotted attacks, etc...). While I can still take bosses, I have many friends that cannot. There has to be a compromise that will make more people happy, solo players, team players, etc... all at the same time (Not just one group).
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Dev's - good job so far. Please keep up the good work, but remember: for every person that posts there are probably 5 that have never seen the forums but still love the game.
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I'd speculate more like 50.
Just a general comment...
On live, I have now easily maxed out my debt at level 40. Bosses *routinely* two-shot me. My SG could not do the Eden trial.
The synergy between *really* tough bosses and the difficulty slider I don't think were really well thought through.
A boss has three times my hit points, easily does twice my damage and is fairly resistant to holds. That is not "1.5 times" my defender
And the most important thing?
I'm no longer having much fun because of borked bosses and maps spawning 90% +1 mobs (even on Hard Boiled.)
I no longer feel like playing at all, group or solo.
Still here, even after all this time!
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Because of your feedback, I'll have someone on our team look at the number of bosses in missions from levels 1 to 50. I don't mind later missions perhaps including a greater % than earlier missions (if only because players are more powerful and have made friends with others), but your posts want me to doublecheck the exact numbers.
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I posted this idea in another thread, before this one was made, and thought I'd post it again since it's more on-topic.
What is all bosses scaled with level, just like certain power so? I.e., L25 bosses come with a 5% increase to damage and HPs, and it scales up to the rumored 50% at L50? It's amazing how one level's difference from 24 to 25 can get you totally owned.
Making bosses harder WON'T make people group up instead of soloing..or it might but only in the short term.
Part of CoH's major appeal is that people CAN solo if they wish to, making it a great game for people on a time budget.
Remove the ability to solo and people who want a game they can solo in, if they want to, WILL leave the game.
Bosses should = 1 hero not 1.5
It should be a touch and go thing, not something that requires a whole tray of insp and then some luck too.
If the problem arises from SOs then take a look at SOs perhaps?
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Bosses should = 1 hero not 1.5
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You're asking the developers to change the fundamental design of the game, a design they are only now reaching. I doubt you will succeed.
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If the problem arises from SOs then take a look at SOs perhaps?
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Ok...but imagine the uproar if SO power levels were reduced...
Here are the changes I found in regards to a couple team mission. I was involved in.
There were 6 players involved highest was a 32 (2) lowest was 25 SKd, a 30 and a 27 SKd and a 31. We encountered level 35 bosses (three levels above our highest character) and they were in groups of 2-4. I was one of the 32s a scrapper being used as a tank since I was the only up close and personal character. The bosses had been smoked, I would hit 1 in 15 shots with my Katana moves
. And get hit by the bosses to the tune of 800 points. No one had difficulty set to other than hard boiled. Yes we might not have had the ideal mix of characters but it was who was available in our SG.
Needless to say we all got our bottoms handed to us. Prior to this publish we could do this missions. But with this many bosses that would all come to play and they were at such a high level that the ratio of hits to misses was way skewed most of us are now in debt city. We did some other missions with a different mix and had similar results.
I dont understand why we cant have a slider and keep the old boss difficulties doing both was not very constructive or fun.
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I don't feel the new bosses are equal to a +1 boss now. I have characters who used to be able to take on a +2 boss as easily or more easily than a +0 boss now, maybe more, and my risk of one-shotting wasnt as high on the old +2.
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They are just +1.
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This may have been your intention, but there is no way this is the real result! For my main blaster's alpha strike, I could see a big chunk of a +1 boss's HP go down (maybe to 1/2?) but with I3, an even boss gets maybe 1/8 HP lost from my alpha strike. Is there another explanation or detail that could explain this?
I love the Hypno Toad. best tv show ever!