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What of the suggestions, including one of my own, to make the difficulty slider go both up AND down? As long as you make it onerous to move it down game balance could be preserved and perhaps that would not take too much coding?
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Your "suggestion," stageIII, does not make it more "onerous" to move this hypothetical slider down, it makes it an actual punishment. No xp or influence, or actually costing xp & influence? These (xp & influence) are the only methods by which to progress in this game. Your slider offers non-optimized builds who attempt to solo the non-choice of character progression, or preferred playstyle.
Excellent well thought out post. Should be read by the devs and anyone going through this thread.
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Tell me, does anyone actually enjoy street hunting?
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Yes.
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Really?
I stand corrected then. There is at least one person (presumably representative of some kind of group of people) who do enjoy street hunting. Frankly I'm a bit astonished. Nobody I have met in game has said they enjoyed this, but tastes do differ. Enjoy then. At least that is still perfectly doable solo.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
How does the +1 boss change work in relationship to Purple Patch? Especially if one uses the Difficulty Slider to bump up the difficulty of LT's and minions and then encounters a boss?
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What of the suggestions, including one of my own, to make the difficulty slider go both up AND down? As long as you make it onerous to move it down game balance could be preserved and perhaps that would not take too much coding?
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I have to agree with that. I paid $55 for the game and $60 so far in subscription fees. I think the difficulty level SHOULD go from the greatest difficulty level or 'master of Paragon City' to the easiest or 'fighting fetus'. If I paid all this hard earned(well, not hard earned 
), I should be able to enjoy this game at a difficulty level of my choosing because my gameplay preferences are not the same as some sadomasochist who likes to end up in the hospital constantly.
I'm also a father, of two boys, and when I have time to play I want to play on my terms. I don't WANT to have to find some strangers to play on my time, I paid MY OWN MONEY so I should be able to have an experience based on my preferences, which is to solo exclusively.
After playing a few pick-up team missions, I realized teamplay was not for me. It's a lot of standing around, waiting for the team to assemble, decide what we want to do, and then once we've begun the mission, I have to hope that all of these strangers are on the same wavelength as me in the objective of completing the mission without getting dead.
I bought this game for the fun factor, the experience of being a hero, not a component of a league of lone heroes banding together for the sole reason that to achieve a personal goal, I need these people. That's not heroism, it's dependency. I want to have the OPTION to be able to play this game solo and get to level 50 without ending up in the hospital even once and not having to street sweep for piddly XP scraps for months and months to do so. I personally don't have the time nor patience to work off experience debt IN A GAME.
I may be in the minority but I feel that if the game wasn't designed to accommodate a wide spectrum of gameplay difficulty preferences, then COH isn't for me and I wish I could get a refund for at least the subscription time I haven't played yet.
As I said before, I purchased the game for fun factor. Having to be terribly cautious about where you go in a game where you're supposed to be a hero isn't fun. Getting killed and having to spend hours recouping XP debt isn't fun. Being relegated to having to street sweep mobs of anywhere from -2s to +2s isn't fun.
If I'm paying $15 a month for something, there should be nothing but fun, enjoyment and satisfaction within the gamespace. Paying a monthly fee for frustration, gameplay limitations and an endless cycle of street-sweeping and XP grinding isn't my idea of fun. I pay $30 a month for satellite TV and get nothing but constant, consistent enjoyment. I'd expect that if someone wants a monthly fee for their product, they'd better make it worth it.
I LOVE the concept of COH and I want everyone to be able to play on their own level, from soloers to teamers, to those who want a Disney level of difficulty to Hell On Earth difficulty. So far, though, since I know the road between life and a hospital visit/XP debt is narrow one, the experience isn't as fun as I'd hoped.
I may be asking for too much, but I am a paying customer, and like everyone else, my concerns, reasonable as they are, should be addressed and having a difficulty slider across the board is a way to work. Perhaps players who play on a more difficult level would have access to exclusive content than those who play on the easier end?
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Tell me, does anyone actually enjoy street hunting?
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Yes.
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Really?
I stand corrected then. There is at least one person (presumably representative of some kind of group of people) who do enjoy street hunting. Frankly I'm a bit astonished. Nobody I have met in game has said they enjoyed this, but tastes do differ. Enjoy then. At least that is still perfectly doable solo.
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i enjoy street sweeping as well as doing missions.
the street sweeping is somewhat solo friendly... except when you have to leave that red boss sitting there and not getting the bonus influence for finishing the mob....
Freedom
Tannus Level 50 Defender *Level 50 on 08/21/05* - Freedom
Sgt. Robertson Level 50 Master Mind - Freedom
Angus Piper Level 45 Scrapper -Liberty
Cindy Jones Level 26 Arachnos Widow - Liberty
I run solo alot,now mostly with alts.I recieved a mission with an alt last night which said you should bring a couple friends or something like that.I ran solo anyway,and dang if i didnt run into an Elite Boss at the end.Well it took some work but i took the Boss down. Granted even the sun shines on a dogs butt once in his life,and i may have been lucky. But it was one of the best fights ive had soloing in a while. So it seems some Boss's although thougher are still within reach of the solo players.
Junkyard Wolf
California Smog(CoV)
Far Rider
Durango Dave
I think it is interesting to see who is most impacted by these boss changes. My take, in decending order of impact, gives blasters the greatest impact, then defenders, then scrappers, then controllers, then tankers. That's just based on my observations, of course, and is strictly related to the post-32 game, and doesn't take into account different sets within ATs.
And now here's why. Solo blasters have no defense. They have no AT-specific way to recover hit points quickly. They have very little in effective crowd control. Damage as control doesn't work on bosses, since they have lots of health (and you just increased it). Two shots, game over. Insps might drag this out to three shots, but blasters are still boss-cream-cheese. A blaster can't kill a boss quickly enough not to feel the pain. I am not so sure what impact the APPs have on this.
Defenders have buffs/debuffs. This gives them a slight up on blasters. They typically have a heal in their sets, which extends their healths. When they get their APPs, they'll have improved crowd control. But they are still two or three very quick hits from the hospital.
Now the high level game jumps significantly in boss survivability with the scrapper. They have good defense, respectable hit points, and some of them have ways to restore HP. They also have forms of damage mitigation (resistance). But it is still a three-hits and you go to the hospital issue for some of them. On a plus-side, they can survive well enough that their damage does reduce the fight-time.
Controllers come in next. But this is a pretty unfair discussion for everyone else, because a typical controller past lvl 32 doesn't really solo anymore. We're slightly more squishy than the defender (but less than the blaster). However, that doesn't matter, because all of us can stack 4 magnitude quickly enough to neuter the boss. Yes, all controllers past 32 can lockdown an even-con boss, although some might not have slotted their powers to do so. Controllers are probably the safest AT to play in a high-level solo boss fight, it just takes 10 minutes.
Finally, there are the tanks. Tanks can typically still toe-to-toe with bosses. They can't be two-shot or three-shot, barring some really heinous mezzing, and even then they have more health than anyone else. It still takes a while to defeat the boss, but not as much time as the controller.
So, my point here is this: All the boss difficulty-increase does is increase the gap between the ATs when it comes to fighting bosses. Tanks and Controllers aren't really going to notice much. Blasters and Defenders are going to feel weakened. This isn't a good idea after so much discussion trying to balance the ATs and their roles across the game.
Everyone solos some. And I think it's a good idea too! Soloing is more casual, you can play around with your powers more, and it's not all about damage, damage, damage. Teams seem to be about speed, until there's something they can't beat without some discussion of tactics. I'd have never developed my Team Teleport/Singularities as aggro mags/GDF/FS combo if all I did was team.
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Statesman made it clear what the goal of the increase is. The increase is to make many of the previously soloable missions and soloable street mods unsoloable, so that those who solo now will group.
Many of those posting here, including myself, consider that a bad goal. A terrible idea. One that will remove the fun from many players who are having lots of fun now.
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Yes, he only told us the goal not the reason why. The goal is to encourage teaming. I suspect the reason why is to minimize the hosting resources. As an example, if you have 80 people running in solo missions uping the difficulty and encouraging teaming means that instead of 80 missions to host you have 10 to 40. With the upcoming launch outside of the US, they have to be examining the resources required to actually host the game. This is all speculation on my part of course, and is probably just going to lead into more absurd speculation as well.
Besides hurting my solo career, this has had a huge impact on the support ATs. The defenders in my SG have had to resort to spamming heal when we do missions. Tankers complained about being provoke bots, my defender mates now complain about being nothing but health pez dispensers.
Someone said it earlier though, if you have a power that lets you control a boss in any manner it doesn't matter how tough he is made. If I could could count on always getting knockdown with my nrg/nrg blaster, I could still solo with no problem at all. It would be boring as hell, but it would allow me to solo. Assuming I street sweep through the next million XP, I should be able to try out total focus which has 100% chance to stun apparently. Thing is that it has a long animation and requires me to get in melee range. No, I don't have hasten or superspeed, so getting near a boss and getting it off will be difficult at best.
I checked the testing room forum and people did complain a lot about this issue before it went live, so I just don't know what to think at this point. I always considered myself a supporter of Cryptic willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Now I just don't know what to think or feel. Strange, none of the other changes bothered me nearly as much as this one.
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I run solo alot,now mostly with alts.I recieved a mission with an alt last night which said you should bring a couple friends or something like that.I ran solo anyway,and dang if i didnt run into an Elite Boss at the end.Well it took some work but i took the Boss down. Granted even the sun shines on a dogs butt once in his life,and i may have been lucky. But it was one of the best fights ive had soloing in a while. So it seems some Boss's although thougher are still within reach of the solo players.
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I notice in your sig that you're alt is level 22. Most likely you enountered a level 22 boss in the mission. The difficulty was only upped on bosses 25+. Also, at 22 you are first able to buy SOs. My guess it that there is a significant sweet spot between 22 and 24 where the bosses you encounter haven't gotten really nasty yet, and you (if you had the influence to do so) were able to outfit your characters with SOs. I assume that since you do have a level 50 you were able to afford all SOs at level 22.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
[ QUOTE ]
Defenders have buffs/debuffs. This gives them a slight up on blasters. They typically have a heal in their sets, which extends their healths. When they get their APPs, they'll have improved crowd control. But they are still two or three very quick hits from the hospital.
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Most defender bufss debuffs do not work on themselves. The vast majority of their buffs/debuffs. Many of their heals also don't work on themselves. Not only that, but their damage is much less then blaster damage. In general defenders are probably worse off, in terms of soloability, then blasters. However, most defenders builds are based on being team-friendly. Most players who play defenders are more interested in teaming, and when teaming, the defender has no real probalems with the new bosses, they just make the defender more valuable. In contrast, many blastes had ideas abotu soloing their way through teh 1-40 content and will probably have to give up that idea.
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Now the high level game jumps significantly in boss survivability with the scrapper. They have good defense, respectable hit points, and some of them have ways to restore HP. They also have forms of damage mitigation (resistance). But it is still a three-hits and you go to the hospital issue for some of them. On a plus-side, they can survive well enough that their damage does reduce the fight-time.
[/ QUOTE ]This is true, but for lower level scrappers, between, say, levels 25 and 30, but even up to about 40, the game against bosses got significantly harder. Until 40 or so most scrappers don't come anywhere near the ability of tanks to take damage and they don't come anywhere near the ability of blasters to dish it out. They simply don't have the slots. This is one of the less-advertised but more annoying aspects of playing scrappers.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
Greets...
As I have a wife, a 20 month old son, a four year old daughter, a full-time job, and responsibilities, I can't group that much or for that long. I love doing story arcs by myself. I do missions with others in my SG when I'm able, but that isn't very often.
My main is a squishy blaster. Those of us who run energy/energy have NO holds or slows. (Why is this, devs? Is there no such thing as throwing a force field or energy siphon on a villain?) We have knockback and a bit of disorient to keep us alive.
Can we have a little consideration for those of us who solo, whether it's voluntarily or otherwise? I'm very dedicated to staying around CoH as long as possible. The content and support are way above anything else around. However, If I can't play the game solo other than by street hunting, I have little that's fun to do in those 30-60 minute windows when I can actually play a lot of the time. I'm afraid this will be a deal breaker for me, and I desperately want it not to be.
Help?
Thanks!
All the best...
Hey Cookie Monster, if "C" is for cookie, what is "N" for?
Golden Age & Early Silver Age Heroes (RPers) Wanted!
Batman PWND by The Insidious Termite!
The Internet
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So it seems some Boss's although thougher are still
within reach of the solo players.
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Some solo players. The difference between solo and non-solo builds is even more stark than before.
Subby can still solo AV's (I've been told - don't have the patience to try it after I3). Not so for my Blaster.
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The only changes I've found so far in the Hollows is some graphical changes to the Outcasts, some badges, and the caverns trial now has a level cap. In fact, one of the Hollows cave missions has even been made easier. There used to be a mission with two named bosses fighting in the last room, Greased Lightning and Redrum. Now poor Redrum has gone AWOL and Greased Lightning is forced to fight a lowly Gardvord. Go figure.
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I did that mission last night with a team of 8. We ran into three named bosses that I recall in that mish. I was mostly there as an XP leech, unfortunately, since my mind controller could only get a third of her holds to hit.
I have another concern which I did not notice being brought up. I have been suprised by Timed missions during my gameplay in CoH. This is bad enough. Those timed missions have had Bosses in them. I could solo them with care/preperation. If bosses are made to the point that they cannot be soloed, please remove them from all timed missions, or at least the ones which are unavoidable or not clearly marked. And, yes, there are timed missions which are either not clearly marked or are linked to the completion of a hunt, etc. which cannot be avoided or delayed.
Even if I were willing to draw a team for such missions, I might not be able to. So you force me to fail a mission by placing an undefeatable foe in a timed mission which I did not have warning before initiating.
Please consider this.
Ever since release, we have had "suprise timed" missions. We've asked to fix them. No dice. The boss changes now compound the problem.
Actually the difficulty in the Hollows was increased, at least for the Frostfire and Atta missions as both are now elite bosses.
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Statesman,
Regarding the boss changes, I appreciate and approve of the desire to make them tougher. I believe it brings a needed honesty and challenge to the game. Further, I like the fact that you are addressing the environment and not our ATs directly.
Now, having said that, the bosses are just too hard. I could enjoy this challenge on named bosses and AVs but street bosses is too much. My controllers and defenders are getting regularly one or two-shotted -- particularly by blade bosses -- at even levels.
Further, my powers to hold have also apparently been significantly reduced. This is a particularly lethal combination and has made me reconsider playing a primary character played for many, many months. I have even tried adding in a 6-slotted tactics and Temp Invuln using the free respec and have still found myself a great deal weaker against bosses on street hunts. I can only imagine what the respec TFs are like.
Please consider a quick update patch to dial-down a bit on the generic bosses. I concur wholeheartedly with Valerian on the 25% increase from I2 but not the current level of damage.
TheOriginalOgre
********************************************
Champion Ogreczar L45 Fire/Rad controller
... and 5 other toons
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You noticed the hold thing too? It appears all "hold" type powers only last about 2-3 seconds on bosses, but *their* hold powers now last on people about 20-30 seconds.
I could not hold a +1 Rulari boss (the eye thing) with *three* Dark Servants and my own hold power (that has a hold duration in it.) Or if the holds took, it wore off almost immediately.
Still here, even after all this time!
How many hold enhancements do you have in those powers? Just curious.
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States, it has been the experience of a great many players (mentioned on other threads) that *multiple* unnamed bosses show up on missions that they entered alone.
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I'll check this!
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Thank you Statesman! I know I would appreciate it.
Example - rather detailed - just for reference, anyone may feel free to skip the rest of the post...
I had a mission last night I soloed as my character "Nomme" on Protector - I even petitioned for help due to another glitch (I don't know if the logs can be checked for spawns for the mission - but if so, I figured that might help) where I couldn't find someone (he was trapped between several boxes, found him by doing 4 flying "sweeps" through the boat)
It is a lvl 22 mission (I know - below the boss difficulty increase minimum level - and I had only 2 close calls, but this is for noting my experience with multiple bosses spawning on a solo mission...) to clear a boat of Council, rescue 4 researchers, and recover a specimen.
I found 2 "sets" of 2 bosses. Both were -1 to my level (I think, in any case they conned yellow). Each time I came across them, they were right around a corner, out of sight until I was right on top of them - which got their immediate attention. Both times it was a council boss and a sky raider boss in the middle of "sparring" between themselves (doing no damage, like the wars...but just interacting). I would work on one boss at a time, but both times I ran across them, I had to kill one - running full tilt between each attack - and - exit the mission to recover health before going after boss #2.
They were unnamed, but both times were paired up. They were only "yellow" to me. This is before level 25 - after level 25, I am certain that I wouldn't have survived killing just one as I barely survived each time I killed one - especially since (or so I feel) I'm a blaster and there was a boss doing ranged damage, and a boss doing melee damage in each group. I know blasters are "squishy" but if the bosses were only melee or ranged, I may have been able to strategize better...as it was, I just attacked and ran - a lot.
I like to team in the right circumstances, but that mission took me over an hour to complete - mostly because of the running from the bosses. I just wanted a fast solo mission before heading off to bed...
Global @Nomme & @Nomme Again
Protector server
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I didnt want to impact solo play by increasing mobs across the board. Instead, I focused on Bosses. We increased the damage, hit points and XP of Bosses to be exactly one level higher. In other words, a level 30 Boss, now more closely resembles a level 31 Boss.
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Oh really? Testing pre and post I3 seems to indicate roughly a 61% increase in boss HPs/damage, that seems a bit more that an increase of 1 level.
One important market factor to consider, too...
CoH's big success is that it's picked up a lot of people who've never played an MMORPG before, people who've been hesitant to pick up the genre because it sounded like the hassle and enjoyment didn't meet up. CoH has won over those customers. I'm one of them and the people I play with also fall in this category.
When we're not having fun in CoH we don't compare it to other MMORPGs. We don't think "Well, in WoW I hear travel is even slower." or "If this looks like forced grouping it's worse in EQ."
We ask ourselves if perhaps we'll have more fun playing The Sims 2 instead... or Rollercoaster Tycoon 3.
Keep that in mind as your competitors. A lot of players like me are paying for CoH despite the MMO aspect. A lot of us picked up the game thinking "I can't imaging paying a monthy fee to pay a game I've already paid for." with our friends' enthusiastic endorsements winning us over. The MMO has always sounded like a hassle and CoH had (until I3) found a balance that made the MMO much less of a hassle than we thought. Now it's getting to be a hassle since we have to do it. Why bother loading up CoH if I'm gonna log on, find out conditions aren't ideal for teaming (low pop in the right zones, my SG all offline, etc) and close the game? Why not just load up The Sims 2 instead?
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States, it has been the experience of a great many players (mentioned on other threads) that *multiple* unnamed bosses show up on missions that they entered alone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll check this!
[/ QUOTE ]
Um considering this has been the case since the game went live, and the *huge* number of people stating this to be the case, I think there's a bit of an issue here that Statesman appears so surprised by this.
[ QUOTE ]
How many hold enhancements do you have in those powers? Just curious.
[/ QUOTE ]
Holds only have hold duration increases. With *FOUR* things spamming holds, that should be enough to lock a boss down.
But it typically won't before I get zapped by they mega mezzing.
I really think they boosted bosses to about +2/+3 level. Which means any +1 boss you run into "acts" like a +3/+4 boss.
I know my Defender never *tried* to solo a +3 boss without tons of insperations, which is what it requires for a +0/+1 now. Any "support" minions/lieutenants makes them unkillable.
Still here, even after all this time!
The Solo Superhero
I wrote "A Letter to Statesman Clause", I have also been called fanboy several times and have been been sent several PM's by Statesman
I was a very happy loyal gamer.
What happened to the Story of my hero, one that had been unfolding for 8 months now...
How would it have felt if every time you read a Superman, Spiderman, Batman, Spawn, or Punisher comic the main hero had to call in four of their friends to finish a task or mission? I am talking every single issue of every single comic. I have read a significant amount of comics in my day, maybe not as many as Statesman but let me tell you, for the most part Superman and Spiderman comics began and ended with the subject hero winning his battles alone. Spiderman never called in three other heroes every time the Green Goblin came to town, or when Neo faced Agent Smith alone, Batman faced the Joker, Superman faced Bizzarro, they were always the most exciting moments for me.
Well since Update Three the story of my hero has changed from that of a great lone hero to that of what appears to be a hero who sits on the virtue server scanning the Hero looking for work pages in his local Hero Directory trying to form a team for 30 minutes so he can jump online to do a "Quick" mission. I hit Level 40 with Update Three, six of the missions I had so been looking forward to so much since my contacts finally opened up have all been far too difficult to solo. So much for the casual friendly game. Last night four (Real Life Friends) non-board posting casual, married players all logged in to help me, we all quit when the three blasters and one scrapper (me) could not defeat the two orange bosses in my mission. We all left annoyed and with plenty of debt, we have been playing together for 8 months and this has never happened. You could easily say "well you guys suck" well fine, then we always sucked and never had this problem before because the game we played was for people like "us". That is not the case anymore.
I have practically soloed to 40, with the exception of "you will need help from friends" missions, arch-villains, "click two boxes simultaneously", and the odd "damn thats a tough mission" mission. I couldn't even solo a clear the warehouse mission last night. Now when I log in for a quick mission all I can do is street sweep, well I did that from 38 40, and if I have that as my only option then maybe this isn't the game for me anymore. That is pretty sad, because this was the only game for me last week, and had been four 8 months, and for a while I felt like a real hero. Now I feel like I am on a team of vigilantes. Maybe we need to change the game to "City of Vigilante Teams" because a real hero of my former stature could defeat a Carnie Boss or a Paragon Protector. I had always imagined that by level 40 you would be doing amazing things with great power and villains would fear you
well my contacts don't know me that well because I can't complete a single one of their tasks alone. They think far too highly of me
am I not the hero they had hoped for? Maybe they were expecting the Fantastic Four.
I am sorry but I feel cheated. Please change the game back to what it was before the boss tweaks. If people want more of a challenge, use the difficulty slider. Sadly, for the first time in 8 months, I couldn't be bothered to play tonight.
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I thought Statesman made it quite clear what the goal of the boss level bump was. Many here have come up with creative ways that would incentivize teaming as well or perhaps better than what was done. I suspect NONE of those ideas could be done with as little coding or impact to the rest of the game.
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Statesman made it clear what the goal of the increase is. The increase is to make many of the previously soloable missions and soloable street mods unsoloable, so that those who solo now will group.
Many of those posting here, including myself, consider that a bad goal. A terrible idea. One that will remove the fun from many players who are having lots of fun now.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout