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I cant stand the new bosses, I solo while my LFT is up and happened to get a mission from flux in the hollows. I am 10 and went to try my luck, I managed to clear everything but Cragnor (sp?), an 11 boss...
.../sign me up for the boss rollback please. I play a 24 blaster to and now fear any boss solo. They just have flat to much luck and the ranged attacks are to high (cragnor hit me with a boulder for 55 from around a corner).
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BlazinInferno,
The I3 changes to bosses were only made to bosses 25th level and above. The bosses you referred to haven't been changed at all. Cragnor now is the same as Cragnor before. The difference is just in your perception because you thought they had been made harder.
The only changes I've found so far in the Hollows is some graphical changes to the Outcasts, some badges, and the caverns trial now has a level cap. In fact, one of the Hollows cave missions has even been made easier. There used to be a mission with two named bosses fighting in the last room, Greased Lightning and Redrum. Now poor Redrum has gone AWOL and Greased Lightning is forced to fight a lowly Gardvord. Go figure.
Dwimble
I am having some of the same problems. I had the missions turned up to invincible. There were always two +2 bosses at the end of each mission. I turned it down to Rugged and now there are two +1 bosses at the end of nearly every mission. Either way it spells death to my controller, even with 4 Decoys and 3 Phantasms up. These are Malta and Knives of Artemis missions, for the most part, but it also happened in a Nemesis mission and a Clockwork Portal Mission. Actually in the clockwork mission there is one boss and one AV standing right next to each other.
Statesman,
I love the new bosses. Being a squishie class and coming around a corner SHOULD be something you are more careful about on a mission. Even with the added challenge they represent I have set my hero to invincible and will never go back.
My main is a squishie - Defender. I have no problem solo on most missions. When I get one full of bosses I do that thing evidently most abhorrent to so many on this thread: I team. (No, say it is not so!)
A group of us ran one of my 'invincible' DE missions Sunday night and got slaughtered. I died 5 times. Even the tank died twice. There were greater devoured coming out of the woodwork and tons of eminators everywhere you looked. It was actually more challenging than the Eden trial. And yet I hope you leave the bosses as they now are.
We died because of sloppy play. Like everyone else we had gotten used to breezing every mission. Now with the invincible setting and the tougher bosses the challenge is back!
For those who want to be able to solo every single mission I do not know what more to say than to ask, "Do you know what the letters in MMOG stand for?" This is NOT an FPS. For the majority of missions you can solo good for you. But, for those few you cannot you really do not have a leg to stand on complaining about it. Either the game is going to be set up so you can solo absolutely everything or so tight teams with good tactics and execution can still be challenged ccasionally. It cannot be both.
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I didnt want to impact solo play by increasing mobs across the board. Instead, I focused on Bosses. We increased the damage, hit points and XP of Bosses to be exactly one level higher. In other words, a level 30 Boss, now more closely resembles a level 31 Boss.
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I think this is where the problem is, the bosses are harder than that!
Tests I did when I3 was on test only showed that at level 44, mission bosses increased their HP 40%, their damage 40%, and while I cant measure it, their heal rate 40%.
Thats more than +1, that's closer to +2. The problem also is that bosses take 40%-50% longer while we are losing our HP 40% faster, making the bosses 80-90% harder, while the XP is only 40% higher. Bosses aren't worth the trouble.
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Because of your feedback, I'll have someone on our team look at the number of bosses in missions from levels 1 to 50. I don't mind later missions perhaps including a greater % than earlier missions (if only because players are more powerful and have made friends with others), but your posts want me to doublecheck the exact numbers.
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It's not a matter of if I have made friends or not at higher levels. It's a matter of if those friends are ON when I am. If they aren't, and I get a mission with a boss, you know what I do? It isn't sit around hoping to find someone to help me, it's log out and play a different game or watch TV. The less time I spend in COH, the less I want to come back.
They don't feel like +1 to me either. I could solo Orange bosses with some degree of fun and success. Reds scared me to death, but if I popped a lot of insps I had a good chance of success (not always, though).
Last night white bosses were mopping the floor with me.
Just +1 my ...
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For those who want to be able to solo every single mission I do not know what more to say than to ask, "Do you know what the letters in MMOG stand for?" This is NOT an FPS. For the majority of missions you can solo good for you. But, for those few you cannot you really do not have a leg to stand on complaining about it. Either the game is going to be set up so you can solo absolutely everything or so tight teams with good tactics and execution can still be challenged ccasionally. It cannot be both.
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That's pretty damn hilarious. A tight team with good tactics, huh? How many pickup teams have you played on StageIII? How often do your kids or wife need help for 5 minutes while you are in the middle of a mission? How many of your pickup team understands this? Anytime I have to go AFK in a pickup team for more than a minute, I come back to find myself kicked. I am glad you like the changes, keep them on the difficulty bar/setting.
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One City. Two games.
My concern is that tankers and scrappers are in many ways playing a whole different ball-game than defenders, blasters and controllers.
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This is a very elegant way of summing up a basic divergence of views. I thought it bore repeating. 
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It cannot be both.
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Not true. It can be both.
And a slider that can go either way with the adequate reward (or no reward at all) is the win/win solution for everyone.
You want to play rough : you can
You're a carebear : you can
I just dont understand why we couldnt have a choice that would lead us to a 'everyone happy' situation.
People who like the difficulty should have the same privileges as the one that dont.
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The level of minions fluctuates in missions anywhere from +1 to -1 of the mission holder.
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I have never in all the time I've played this game, seen -1 mobs (unless I had held onto a mission from a previous level).
Has anyone else?
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Eighth - you've hit the nail on the head! Positron and I were just talking about this; part of the beauty of the game is that you don't need to wait in order to get to fun. I don't want to lose that in the rush to encourage grouping. Like I've said, I'm going to review the missions this week and see how many have bosses at the different level ranges.
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The main difficulty, IMO, is that un-soloable missions are not always made clear ahead of time. Some do, to be sure, especially ones that require multiple heroes to click a glowie at the same time. So it is often the case that one takes a mission having no earthly idea that it's un-soloable, only to find out in the midst of it that one can't. If -- for whatever reason -- you don't want to group up at that point, you're basically hosed. Not only that but now that mission is stuck on your mission board until it's done. Which means it takes up one of only 3 mission "slots"... It is conceivable (and I have had this happen) that you could have all THREE of your slots taken up by un-soloable missions, and now you have to group whether you want to or not (or are stuck street sweeping, which is not the issue here because we are talking about missions).
I'd never suggest that all missions should be soloable, BUT, if we get one that is too hard to solo for whatever reason, and we don't want to group at that point for whatever reason (not in the mood, prefer to group with SG mates instead of strangers, etc), how about letting us trade the mission BACK to the contact and say, "I'll take care of it later." I realize in some cases this may not be very "in character" but heck if you're solo who's there to see it anyway? And if as a player you are not in the mood to do a given mission and would rather do something else what is the big deal?
To me this would solve the MAIN problem with missions that require groups, which is, not that they require groups at all, but that they require you to group right NOW whether you want to or not, or else be stuck with an unfinishable mission on your list potentially for a very long time.
Right now, I can reset the mission by logging out but there is no way to get rid of it. If you give us a way to get rid of missions that require a group, then we can just go choose another one that doesn't, and everyone's happy... grouping is still encouraged but it's not being forced RIGHT NOW on THIS MISSION on someone who at that particular moment may not be "in the mood" to group. Because frankly I think that's true of most of us at one time or another... sometimes we are in a 'groupy' mood and sometimes we just want to sit down for a bit and solo a few good missions. Right now, the GAME is telling us when we get to do one or the other. I'm suggesting here that the PLAYER be allowed to make that choice. Because frankly I can't fathom how your GAME can tell when I am in the mood to group (which to be honest is most of the time) or not.
F
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One City. Two games.
My concern is that tankers and scrappers are in many ways playing a whole different ball-game than defenders, blasters and controllers.
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This is a very elegant way of summing up a basic divergence of views. I thought it bore repeating.
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I saw what happened when my scrappers fought bosses, and my immediate reaction was that it would be too harsh for more squishy characters.
Mind you, I don't hate the tougher fights, but I don't know they're good for the whole game to be that tough.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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States, it has been the experience of a great many players (mentioned on other threads) that *multiple* unnamed bosses show up on missions that they entered alone.
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I'll check this!
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It happened to me specifically on the 'destroy the counter agent' mission of the Unity Virus story arc. I had to dodge/fight about 4 Bosses all by my lonesome.
States,
A couple of things. Others have said these, but I want to reinforce them:
*) Based on what you're describing a ludicrous number of missions have bosses in them. Plain old missions will crop up often that have +1 bosses in them with no help from the slider.
*) The presence of bosses makes the slider useless for anyone but Scrapppers, well-put-together Tankers, and ATs which can combine effective holds/stuns with damage. (An example of the latter is any Blaster with Energy secondary who can stun bosses with Total Focus).
*) Fights now consist of tear through the minions and most LTs and then approach the boss with care. There are of course a few exceptions to paper-minion syndrome, such as Sappers.
*) My advice is: do not beat us with the Stick of Teaming. Just because you have had a good experience teaming is not a valid reason for forcing it on anyone else. If you want people to team, give them motivation to do so. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar.
Your game's best "meaty" content (story arcs) is currently:
- available to the solo player
- thick with bosses
- some of the most interesting things you can do outside a TF or Trial.
I simply do not understand why you want to force teaming on someone who can blunder into that content solo. If I have the choice of teaming with strangers on my mission I will simply not do it. Ever. I only do that with my friends.
The only exceptions are because I'm offering a badge mission to people or it's an AV, both of which are things I think are worth sharing with the community. That and AVs are clearly and have always been meant for teams.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Serisously , thats discouraging ... Tonight i played with my Rifle / Energy level 27 blaster . I was in Independence Port doing some street sweeping with a level 24 tank i got the luck to encounter . That was a great alliance we made i could say . He was alone fighting some Family goons and of course he was winning ( since tanks can take punishment forever ) . However , i was watching him and i noticed that his fight was lasting very long , way too long ... I told him that in team i could use my AoE attacks and that we could defeat lot of enemies faster so it wouldnt hurt his xps . The fact is that he was the one who did me a favor by taking me with him . As a blaster , i pretty much can accomplish nothing at all alone nowadays . For me , any xps i would get with him would be fine since i can barely get any if i stay alone . So it is , we fought for 2 hours in IP and he got some decent xps with me since we were fighting level 26-27 minions and lts . I was really helpful since these baddies were conning green and blue to me so my AoE attacks were getting them down at a fast pace . Still , in 2 hours with this tank , i didnt even got half a bubble toward level 28 , of course i was getting only 50% of my xps since blasters are always in debt grrrr ... Anyway , as a blaster i dont really get to choose anything when it comes to get on a team . Any meatshield that can take damages for you do you a favor and its for me better than being alone getting more debt . It was really 2 hours wasted to remove some debt and get a handfull of xps . After my teamate leveled up he said he had to leave and i was left once more standing alone near IP train station . I started again looking for any and i say really any ( blasters arent picky nowadays ) team but it was to no avail ... There is no love for blasters anymore in CoH . We are all falling into the unreliable and help beggar category . So many see us as a 5th wheel for the wagon . Yes , we bring some good damages but we are in now way as shiny as we used to be . We are the last AT to make it on a team to fill an empty spot when people cant get an extra scrapper ( or even any extra second tank that makes people feel safer than with a blaster ) . Where is the love for the blasters ? Love is gone when people realized that even with a 5 slotted dmg snipe attack with build up we couldnt even take to half hp an even con boss . Love is gone for the blasters when people realized that if there is a minimal lack of luck , attention , skill or whatever , the team was to lose a blaster teamate within one or two shots . Love is gone for the blasters because their only and really only duty in a team is to deal massive damages but for some reasons damage dont seem to be nearly as massive as they used to be . Thats really discouraging and thanks god , i was wise enough to make a scrapper and a tank so i can put once more my blaster into a cryogenic tank .
Issue 3 dealt a serious blow to many ATs , most players felt the changes one way or another . Many players have already or will adapt , no doubt . However , for many people that are still trying to play blasters , the last boss modification really makes us even more vulnerable than we already were and far from making people wanting us in a team , they make people run away from us or saying that polite sentence : " A blaster ? Im sorry , we arent playing a hard boiled mission and we would prefer to have an extra scrapper or tank just in case things get ugly ... We need tough guys you see ? " .
( I do not think i am exagerating this , everytime i get on the server with a blaster , getting on a team is always complicated , especially for doing a TF , Trial or Respec mission . People have had lot of bad experiences with blasters on their team and people dont like bad experiences . They tend to play safe and the reputation of blasters as a glass cannon , as true as it is , often rebuke people . Blaster was too often considered as the "extra" attacker or the AT the team can afford to lose in a battle when tanks and scrappers are around . Blasters can or ... used to be able to make a real difference but all these extended fights against these tougher bosses is making them look weak and less efficient as they used to be . Of course , AoE attacks can still help a lot if a tank is present in team . But if you can have instead a bunch of scrappers that can do the job almost as fast in your team , who would you hire ? Im not saying to nerf scrappers but maybe consider to make blasters able to do devastating attacks like they used to do . Even back to Issue 2 , scrappers could easily challenge blasters for a spot in a team but since Issue 3 , scrappers would win the spot in the team almost everytime . )
Attention all scrapper players : I also play a scrapper and im not wishing to see scrappers modified or whatever ( I already got scared enough when Issue 3 came out ) . Im just expressing my point of view about the future of blasters , their role in a team and their solo survivability .
Someone concerned about blasters all around rating
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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For those who want to be able to solo every single mission I do not know what more to say than to ask, "Do you know what the letters in MMOG stand for?" This is NOT an FPS. For the majority of missions you can solo good for you. But, for those few you cannot you really do not have a leg to stand on complaining about it. Either the game is going to be set up so you can solo absolutely everything or so tight teams with good tactics and execution can still be challenged ccasionally. It cannot be both.
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That's pretty damn hilarious. A tight team with good tactics, huh? How many pickup teams have you played on StageIII? How often do your kids or wife need help for 5 minutes while you are in the middle of a mission? How many of your pickup team understands this? Anytime I have to go AFK in a pickup team for more than a minute, I come back to find myself kicked. I am glad you like the changes, keep them on the difficulty bar/setting.
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I do agree it would be nice if added challenge could remain strictly a matter of the difficulty setting. The new universal level bump to bosses goes beyond that. I trust Statesman that it was necessary and good for the game. I trust him to look at the hard numbers and feedback and decide to keep it in or roll it back strictly on what is good for the game. My feedback is: It was good for the game.
I play on pickup teams a LOT. My main is a bubbler which there seems to be fair demand for even in the end game. I get /tells and /invites out of the blue all the time. It does not take long to get a feel for the group. I actually did Eden the first time on a pickup team and we played a very organized and tactically sound mission. (One of the controllers stayed too far away from me for dispersion and maneuvers to cover her and died a lot, but that was it.)
A number of folks have stated the MMOG definition is a tired old argument that has been refuted beyond question. Not exactly. This is not just any MMOG. Statesman has decided to put a certain priority on teaming in CoH. It is not pervasive and it does not ruin the game for those who like to mostly solo. The bottom line is CoH is a game where occasional teaming is probably necessary. For those who like to team that is a plus. For those who do not that is a minus. The developers CANNOT please both groups.
Making the probably-erroneous assumption that Statesman is still reading...
I've noticed objects seem to have been severely buffed with I3, as well. Pre-I3, even-con CoT portals took about 7-8 shots to destroy for my tanker. Now, they take about 15 or more. Meanwhile, all those Behemoths are beating one me and hitting me with ranged attacks. Taking out a portal used to be doable - now, it's far, far more difficult. More difficult than it should be.
Teamed up with some people to do a Malta mission. The Auto-Turrets seemed to take forever to destroy. What are they made of, diamond-inlaid adamantium??? I don't know how tough those were prior to I3, but they seem unreasonably tough now.
Devouring Earth Cairns and other drops seem much harder to destroy now, too.
Objects like this should be an annoyance, an inconvenience. They shouldn't take as long to destroy as a mission boss.
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BUT -- no matter what your feeling about the content is, it's a lot harder to really savor content on a team, because you're likely to be switching from arc to arc, depending on who has missions in which zone ("why schlep to Talos for that next mission on your arc when there's two others right here in Brickstown?"), and who can call a contact for new missions instead of having to run across the city for more missions.
So for me at least, there's a contradiction. Teaming is a lot of fun, but it's harder to really appreciate significant parts of the content when you're teaming. I solved this contradiction by soloing my story arcs.
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Amen!!!
You posted my post for me. 
Teaming, task forces and trials are not a time to experience content. With friends, fine. But with random people the goal is usually to move as fast as possible, either to max XP/hour or just to finish the 4-hour-long activity. Most Trials are timed, compounding this.
IMO, making the best content (Story Arcs, IMO) punishes everyone, including you, the makers of all that story content.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I think the genre (and the great game) attracts many of us who want some online gaming experiences, but need it to be flexible enough that we can solo at will (instead of standing around trying to form a team for 10 minutes).
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Eighth - you've hit the nail on the head! Positron and I were just talking about this; part of the beauty of the game is that you don't need to wait in order to get to fun. I don't want to lose that in the rush to encourage grouping. Like I've said, I'm going to review the missions this week and see how many have bosses at the different level ranges.
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EXACTLY what I told the girl I am trying to get to play this game...
While I only have a 22 as my highest level character, I can point out a few things on the boss changes. This comes from the perspective of a squishy (read: Controller)
(1) Getting one shotted has only happened to me once at 21 in a mission with a group of 24s. A 25 boss saw me, and poof I was dead. I expect this to happen more often.
One of the problems with making bosses tougher than they are now is that if you team, rarely do you go in with everyone at the same level. So if you happen to be the person 1-3 levels lower, the extra boss dificulty basically means more debt. This actually discourages teaming.
(2) AC2 went down this road and it drove away a lot of the population. Be very careful with this type of change. If you make bosses really tough, they will crush the weaker ATs. Then you polarize the community into those that can solo bosses and those that can not. Already there is an envy of the soloability of Scrappers, this type of change will just amplify that.
(3) People don't like forced grouping. I love to group and leave my LFT on all of the time. However, I stayed with this game because if I have 20-30 minutes I can sit down and run a mission whether or not I can find a team. If that changes, I will be quite sad. Finding a team can be a long process some nights.
(4) Finally, I would think that it would be better to make bosses do boss like things. Give them leadership powers and make their minnions tougher. They can be tough themselves, but if they boost the power of the people they are with, they would be just as hard, but not instantly lethal to squishies like myself.
I admit it: Im anti-social. Its hard to get me to group up with strangers. But after I do it, I almost always think "Oh yeah, that's why I usually play solo."
I will say the idea of a slider that can go in both directions may be a good thing if it can be done without a huge amount of coding and impact on the rest of the game.
1 step down - no XP and diminished influence with markedly fewer spawns.
2 steps down - no XP and no influence and normal number of spawns but as if you are 1 level lower.
3 steps down - no XP and it actually costs influence/arrest but markedly fewer spawns and as if you are 1 level lower.
4 steps down - costs both XP and influence/arrest with normal number of spawns as if you were 2 levels lower.
You must do something to make lowering the level more onerous than simply getting slightly less XP and influence than you normally would.
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I play on pickup teams a LOT. My main is a bubbler which there seems to be fair demand for even in the end game. I get /tells and /invites out of the blue all the time. It does not take long to get a feel for the group. I actually did Eden the first time on a pickup team and we played a very organized and tactically sound mission. (One of the controllers stayed too far away from me for dispersion and maneuvers to cover her and died a lot, but that was it.)
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And there is the rub, a bubbler is so massive in altering game play that you are in high demand. One of the defenders in my SG is a bubbler and he made the 2nd Respec mission a cake walk pre I3. Post I3 his bubbles allowed use to complete the Numnia TF. However the two empathy defenders had to spam healing to make it work. Enjoying the content was non-existant.
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A number of folks have stated the MMOG definition is a tired old argument that has been refuted beyond question. Not exactly. This is not just any MMOG. Statesman has decided to put a certain priority on teaming in CoH. It is not pervasive and it does not ruin the game for those who like to mostly solo. The bottom line is CoH is a game where occasional teaming is probably necessary. For those who like to team that is a plus. For those who do not that is a minus.
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It isn't a question of disliking or liking teaming for me and many others. A parent with spouse and kids just don't have the same flexibility as others. The main reason my SG exists is to give us the ability to do TFs. We take take a week or more to do them and it isn't that unusual for us to stand around for 10 minutes in the middle of a mission while one of us deals with family.
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The developers CANNOT please both groups.
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They were pre-Issue 3.
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*) My advice is: do not beat us with the Stick of Teaming. Just because you have had a good experience teaming is not a valid reason for forcing it on anyone else. If you want people to team, give them motivation to do so. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar.
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I keep seeing this sort of sentiment on the boards and I really think it's a good one... I know it would be lots of work, but my suggestion would be to have contact offer not two missions as it is now (one street sweep, one door), but rather THREE missions, roughly classified as:
* Street Sweep- self-explainatory. Leave this just as-is.
* Standard door (Minions and Lt's in the mission, scaled to fit the player numbers and slider settings at the time of mission launch- basically what we have now but with a far lower Boss spawn rate, with all Boss missions clearly defined in the flavor text) and
* Team/Larege Map- Missions for groups. Missions have Bosses, AVs, large maps (as in the huge, sprawling CoT underground bases that are sooooo cool but taks sooooo long to run through), etc. These missions can either spell out their difficulty in the flavor text (i.e.: "This will be a tough one [player], probably a suicide run without backup. If I were you, I'd go grab some teamm mates to take this base out!"), can be color-coded, whatever. And yes, some builds might be able to solo even these missions, but you can offer the cookie through increaded XP awards for groups that get larger as more players do the mission, etc. thereby ENCOURAGING team play rather than PUNISHING soloers.
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States, it has been the experience of a great many players (mentioned on other threads) that *multiple* unnamed bosses show up on missions that they entered alone.
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I'll check this!
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Last night on Guardian I had a Malta mission where the first enemy I encountered was a +1 Knives of Artemis boss. Later there were two +1 Zeus class Titans (not in the same room) and a +1 Malta boss (Gunslinger type). This wasn't the only mission in this arc where I had that problem. After this mission I grouped with other people from my SG and the number of bosses stayed about the same.
Fighting bosses is just not fun for me any more. I get two-shotted if I don't get the first hit to drain their endurance with transference and if I do manage to lock them it just takes too long to wear them down. I can still handle a single boss but it's just not worth the risk of being two-shotted.
The best way to take care of this is to roll back bosses to where they used to be and introduce more elite bosses in missions where many of the named ones used to be.
Mr Slowburn - 50 fire/kin troller
Cosmic - 50 grav/storm troller
Cyberprowl - 50 ma/dark scrapper
Mi-graine - 50 emp/psi defender
Alberta Beef - 50 fire/ice tank
Mythtery - 41 ill/rad troller
Gargantua - 39 ws
Kotor - 38 db/wp scrapper
Fungal - 50 plant/psi dom
Snarky - 38 thug/dark MM