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One additional thing I would like to point out is that I'm not sure this change will have the intended effect for group gameplay. I'm actually more leery now about bringing along teammates in my door missions than I was previously. On Unyielding, if I solo a mission, it's comfortably filled with lts and minions. If I add one person, it's likely similar. When I hit 3 people, unnamed bosses appear. So I think very hard before I add that third person now.
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I'm with you on this. I'm definitely more leery now and haven't enjoyed the game as much as pre-I3 and simply because of the one shots and debt. I'm no fan of debt, no one is, I know it comes with the territory BUT up until I3 my defender had been in debt a total of, count them, two times over his level 37 career. Admittedly this is because I built him to be a team player for the most part, I go in with a team and heal/buff them..drawing no aggro upon myself (even though I get some of course, one always does, I just don't get the brunt of it). Now with the release of I3 and the added damage to bosses I've had my backside handed to me by Boss AoE and one shots to the point I have earned the first debt badge and am halfway to the second.
I think one shots are ridiculous as they are anyway. I don't feel they should be taken out of the game BUT the damage should be reduced to where it doesn't take you out automatically. What's the fun or the realism of being a superhero if you can't at least have a fighting chance to stay alive after a devistating attack. Have a one shot take me down to blinking red health but give me a chance to pull off a heal first and at least survive even if I have to run after.
Beyond this, as vulnerable as Defenders and Controller are (and Blasters too, but I'm talking about those that keep the team alive here) if we're one shotted or taken out because of a Boss AoE (remember healing and radiant auras are AoE as well so you have to be relatively close to your tankers and scrappers for them to get the heal if they need it) then what does that do for the rest of our team? they have no one to heal them or buff them anymore and before too long they're AoE'd to death or one shotted or just taken out in general. This makes the point of being a healer, well...pointless. If I'm not given the chance to save myself and then save my teammates then why do I have healing powers in the first place?
So yes, I think the boss damage needs to be looked at a bit. I really don't mind the higher HP as much as I thought I was going to. I still don't like it, hate it in fact BUT if I am solo'ing I can still take on an orange boss with a number of inspirations in tow. I often have to leave the mission to buy some when one is sprung on me (and I'm sorry but you DO run into missions that have no mention of a boss in the text. I was doing a Crey mission the other day, I forget what it's called but it's the one where they inject you with that serum or whatever that lowers your endurance and hp regen as well as the recharge rate of your powers. Anyhow, as far as I remember, and I've been paying close attention since Statesman said to "check the text" and nowhere did it mention any bosses and sure enough, the second enemy I run into was a boss, I forget what they're called, they look like Voltic Tanks but they're Bosses and not lts) but I can take them on if need be. But the damage...the damage really needs to be looked at or something needs to be looked at. I don't know how anyone could call it "balance" when the boss damage is so much greater than what we as heroes can do and the boss HP is so high that it's completely counter-productive to our powers in many cases.
Balance, in my humble opinion, would at the LEAST be "One shot me to within an inch of my life but give me a chance to pull off a heal" as opposed to "One shot me dead"...doesn't seemed very balanced to me there.
So therefore, with this being said I'm leery of teams now. When invited to a team it's quickly become second nature to me to ask how many members and do you plan on getting more. It's hard enough keeping people alive with the ridiculous boss changes but even worse when you've got a large team spawning Bosses left and right and one of those bosses decides to take you, the defender, out. It's just too much I feel.
Another example to promote changing something to the changes that were implemented. A team and I went after Nosferatu the other day. Very good team, we were doing really well (myself *Defender*, one tank, two scrappers and a blaster). We get to Nosferatu and things seem to be going well at first, I was paying attention to my teammate and not Nosferatu himself as it's my job to keep them living. Then in the middle of a heal to the blaster, Nosferatu executes some cone power that takes him and myself out, one shot...no chance. He then subsequently took out both the scrappers and the tank ran. It was during this time (while the scrappers tried in vain to take him) that I actually targeted the AV to see him at half health only to watch him regen to full health within a matter of seconds. Now, I know he's supposed to regen, all enemies do, vampyres regen even quicker BUT seeing that he's an AV and his HP is already ridiculously high as it is and it takes a good amount of time to get that HP down, should his regen rate not be slowed a little? Once again this doesn't seem like balance...balance would have been increasing his HP and damage (somewhat on the damage, the one shot thing has GOT to go) but lowering his regen rate a little bit so he can't regen so quickly that increased HP that's a [Censored] and a half to get down as it is. That would be balance.
And what about the Terra Volta respec trial? Is it balance to have so many Freak Tank Bosses there? Two in a group is one thing as you're fighting to the reactor...sometimes more...but when you actually get to the reactor and they start coming down with the waves of enemies and they're at their new increased HP and damage rate and your team can't get the two or three that come down taken out in time before the next wave falls on you and now you've got five or six Freak tanks and if they don't instantly kill you from one shots and such you still can't get ALL five or six of them taken out with the increased HP and then another wave comes down and you've got nine or ten Freak Tanks on the floor...it's time to run and call it a day if you can make it to the door before they destroy the reactor, that is if you're lucky enough to get out without being one shotted. So basically...if the tanks and scrappers can get out before the reactor is destroyed.
Is that balance? I'd think balance would be to tone down the boss spawn in the reactor IF they're going to be so hard to take on. As previously stated it's hard enough keeping a team alive with the increased damage and HP, throw in ALL those Freak Tanks and the fact you've got to run and get a shield to protect yourself in the middle of battle sometimes and well you've got a dead hero because I had to run and get a shield and couldn't heal. (This wasn't an issue before as my healing aura more than made up for any damage the radiation did BUT with all those Freak Tanks running around any little damage radiation was doing on me was just making my HP that much lower).
Statesman talks so much about balance amongst the archetypes and balance in the game and what-not. Somehow I just don't see "balance" here AT ALL. Balance in the game is at the very least a fighting chance.
If I want to team up that should be my decision,not yours States,and with the servers being so lite in load these days it is much harder to find a good team,or make a good team,so I am forced to solo,I like teaming it is fun,but I don't want to be encouraged,or discouraged to do so. Just let me play the way I want.
I have been playing since Beta,and still think this game is fun,but along with other things I have encountered,including customer service issues,which wre not there before,I am just not having fun anymore.
I play a level 38 Controller on Pinnacle "Obsidian Guard" I racked up more then 80,000 in debt. in about 10-15 minutes,I have never had that much debt. ever on any of my characters,and I did not come around a corner and get surprised by Bosses. There weere just to many Bosses level 39,now I know they really were fighting like level 40,I had no way to combat that. Yeah sure I finally found 2 players to help me,but I should have been able to get it done bymyself,I had to wait 5 days to get the right players that had time to finish it!
To add salt in the wound the Server went down,so what do I see when I log back in? my character dead! and me with debt.,after workin the debt. off I come back with debt. in place and all the missions I had done unfinished.
I am so frustrated I just sat there,I then went through all my characters,just to see if I could get into the mood to play again,there was something there,but as of right now Iam beside myself with conflicting emotions,I love the game,but I don't feel it lovin me back! 
I was thinking; wouldn't that so-called XP "bug" for doing other people's missions be a much better incentive to team then just "if that things sees me it's insta-debt"?
I for one enjoy helping people out with their missions, because it gives me targets, and an xp bonus at the end. But I prefer solo and wish it wasn't so ramped up at the base diff [that's what the slider is for, and pre-lv25, it works like an absolute charm]
That's the way to keep people happy. Use the carrot, not the stick.
taskforce missions are one thing, but being downgraded to street-hunting-only because all your current missions require you to "bring a teammate" for simultaneous disarms,etc is nothing but a very horrible hassle. Not all of us consider large street-groups good XP....
or, increase mission xp bonuses all-around, for missions that require teams. If you have people looking for those who got such mission types so they can 'help', that causes group-play.
besides, the way it is currently with bosses, you need a second person to feel safe, but a third sometimes random boss-spawns.
**Actually from my experience it's more often 4+, but that severly depends on mission difficulty... missions which are +1 at base (usually late in story-arc types where minion average goes yellow) are the ones that seem at highest risk of developping "bigass-group-of-minions-with-2-lt's + boss" syndrome even with 3 players(sure they're your level instead, but...). It's not a guaranteed thing, but law of averages and all you'll have none one mission and 1 per group the next.
I like everything in I3...except the boss changes and the fact that it seems like I'm missing more than I hit bad guys. I'm a dark/electric defender. I previously could solo missions when I so chose to do so. Now I can't even tie my boot-laces without help. I play late at night and am often weary of those I group with. Yeah I'm sorta anti-social, and I've been hospitalized one too many times by a stupid stunt a teammate thought would be great without first consulting me. My point is that I don't always solo, but I want the option. I used to be able to take on an orange boss (usually after 2-3 hit and run attacks), but now I have difficulty with yellows and can't arrest an orange.
Batman, Superman, Wolverine, Spiderman, Captain American...these heroes all have something in common. They are part of Supergroups...that they don't always spend a lot of time with. They often go out on their own and find trouble that only their specialized skills can solve.
In conclusion, change it back please, it's lost that something special lately and I want it back. Thanks for listening to my whining.
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They are just +1.
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No they're not. They're more. In some way - both in terms of hit points and in terms of damage, they are far more than +1. I have more trouble with +1 bosses now than I ever had with +2 before the patch.
From my own comparison of numbers before issue 3 went live, bosses recieved a +40% to hit points and a +40% to damage. I don't know if accuracy was boosted as well, but I certainly hope that was not the case.
If bosses, prior to issue 3, went up 40% in hit points and damage every level, I suspect people would have complained about boss difficulty long ago.
I'm not sure what the difference is, but this +1 boost in difficulty is not true.
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I compared test to live a few days before issue 3 went live, in creys folly. a lvl32 warhulk and crey protector both went from 1460 to 2355 hp (just checked on live, it is still correct), a 61% increase. Their damage went up 61% as well.
Fighting a +1 makes my powers around 10% less effective and accurate. I dont know how much it affects the enemy, but it is not 61%. Perhaps it is a bug/misstake.
Now I dont have much problem with it... but it seems way too harsh for many.
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Admittedly, these are approximate. A single hero might spawn anywhere from 2 to 4 minions. Or a Lt. by himself. Or a Lt. and a minion.
......
This system is how spawns work in mission maps AND zones. Yep spawns in zones check to see what size a nearby group is. When your team is running through an area, youre actually creating spawns as you go.
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If a spawn in a zone is directly linked to the heroes nearby, you should seriously check the Rikti Crash Site.
It's easy to test the spawn in such area (it hasn't changed between I2 and I3), as no-one ever hunts there (it's way to dangerous).
Being solo, groups spawning are composed of :
- 2 to 4 bosses (mix of soldiers and mentalist)
- 2 to 8 lieuts (mix of blasters and mesmerists)
- 2 to 8 minions (plus com officer for the portal)
Adding the chain Mez/Holds and the double increased damage of soldiers (as boss and as tanks), for a solo player, that's really hard time and death rate is so high I stopped hunting there at Issue3 (of course, there's an hospital at the zone entry, to limit the time to come back... in I2, it was real challenge, I've made 4 levels solo hunting waiting for my group... now I chain missions at max difficulty, but solo, to limit the boss presence)
So re-work this zone, or it will even be less visited than in I2, due to the boss changes. (I think dividing the number of mobs by 2 would be enough, for each spawn)
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...I entered the final room and in the corner was a level 39 named Boss called Ulor. He was one of those vampyr boss that would chain hold me into 30k debt before I can get out a snipe so I had to leave the mission.
Now can anyone find any mention of this named Boss in the mission or am I missing something?
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Blaster_Babe,
Agreed. It should have mentioned a boss (at least that's the implication from Statesman) and unless I'm mistaken he wants us to /bug those missions.
But, I'm puzzled. Why didn't you just leave the mission, head to the nearest contact and buy a few Discipline inspirations (assuming you didn't have some already) and then head back to the mission? With a few of those to protect you and maybe a few Lucks and Enrages, you should have been able to handle that boss without too much difficulty. You might have had to use some hit and run a bit if you missed too much or he got too close, but it is definitely doable without debt. No reason to fail the mission.
Dwimble
Another thought...
Instead of insisting that everyone group all the time (which is what has basically happened to me). Why not add a mission difficulty bar? This allows the League In Liason With Unsung SuperheroeS (L.I.L.W.U.S.S.) to ease into their missions while Team Tough can pump it up to hectic for their style of fun.
And I, Capt. Midnights, can still solo instead of having to group with Sgt. Sleepdeprived and being hospitalized multiple times; therefore being forced by new Paragon City legislation to change my name to The Debtmiester.
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My main issue right now is the ?one shot? defeats. Blasters, Controllers or Defenders who round a corner a little too quickly can find themselves facing instant debt. They have no opportunity to prepare for the boss because they didn?t see him.
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My opinion is that soloing characters must exercise more patience and caution than those in a team. When I solo a mission with a non-tank and I don't have some kind of stealth power like super-speed, I don't go racing through rooms and around corners without watching where I am going. Tactics and situational awareness are important. If a player is going to run a controller along willy-nilly and just start trying to lock down everything in sight without conning first, then they deserve to be occasionally one-shotted. It teaches them the virtue of patience. 
Now, if you could insure that bosses only appeared at the ends of corridors or the middle of rooms, that would be great. That makes it possible for players to con every mob in a group and plan before going to work.
Ferrium - Inv/SS Tanker
Hyperforce - SS/Regen Brute
Member of V for Vengance (Exalted)
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I liked City of Heroes for one reason mainly. I could play solo. I am a Dad and when things come up with the kids and the wife I MUST leave the computer you just can't REASONABLY stress reasonably do that in a group. Its not fair to the group. You say MMP shines with a group that may be true. But yours was different it finally was a place solo players could fight solo and just chat with other people. You did not have to fight as a group. But as time goes by each change seems to move away from that. I just feel you are working against me now. As a dad I may need to look elsewhere for an online game.
Terry Bailey Sr.
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Exactly how I feel as a full time parent of two teenagers.
Being in a group and having to go afk for five or so minutes at at time isn't fair to others. Fortunately with my SG, who are mainly my grouping team, they understand and make adjustments. I have been in pick up teams where I was harshly reprimanded for even playing because I am a parent. I've been kicked from teams for having to afk due to my teenager needing help with homework etc.
There are many many parents who play CoH. I've run across so many I'm very pleasantly surprised. Many, such as myself, play with their family. But many also have young ones who sometimes need attention right away. The wife of a SGmate had to suddenly go afk in the middle of a mission I was helping her with and was afk for a good fifteen minutes. Found out her two year old had gotten into the food colouring markers and tried to make himself green. I don't think many others would've been so patient to wait for her to deal with it.
Being able to solo is also how many parents take that "me" time. After dealing with children, school, dinner, spouses, errands, after school activities, sports, bills, and gods know whatever else goes on in the household, being able to solo is a great way of stress relief. Think about it: being able to pound a yellow, orange, red, or even purple boss. The satisfaction that gives is something that's a very good thing to many who use CoH for stress relief.
Another reason for soloing, for me and for others, is after playing a support AT for so long (in my case 44 levels), it's such a fun and refreshing change to be able to solo and do damage.
I created my alt Blaster with two things in mind: soloing and power hitting. It's such a difference, night and day. With my Defender, I've never solo'd, not truly as I do with my Blaster. The Defender has always been group oriented. My Blaster does well enough in teams or with minimum support, but when I want that "me" time, it's such a nice thing to be able to have that.
Statesman, you say you want to encourage grouping. From what I've seen, from what I've read, from what I've heard in-game, there IS grouping. A goodly amount of it. The problem isn't soloability...the problem is the power gamers and the power levelers. These are the ones who rise through the game, trying to "beat" it, who gain the final last level, look around, and then complain there is nothing to do.
Statesman, PLEASE understand: every online game has these types. There is NOTHING you can do about it. They will ALWAYS find a way to get around whatever constraints you try to apply to slow them down. There is NO nerf strong enough to stop them. And every obstacle you apply in making the game harder, they will find a way around it.
And in making the game harder to try and keep their business, you may be costing CoH the patronage of the people you really WANT to keep: those who enjoy the journey, not the destination.
Statesman,
Thank you for posting the reasoning you had for increasing the bosses and hopefully you will look into the issues you said you would about the multiple bosses (happens a lot in Malta missions).
But, and I'm fairly sure I'm not alone in this, you seem very adamant about *not* answering the true burning question out there:
Why was the "boss change" included *with* the optional difficulty slider?
I fail to see how the difficulty slider, when ramped up by the individual, couldn't cover the difficulty for that individual, or the team he is with.
Reverting the "boss change", maybe increasing the slider to the 3rd notch spawns more bosses in the mission (+1 to +2)? For solo play, that has got to be challenging enough for most ATs who solo. When that hero has to/wants to team, that 3rd notch spawns even more bosses.
The boss change affects street groups as well as missions. If a hero wasn't being challenged with the mobs he was finding on the street, he'd go find higher level groups....that is an "on the fly" difficulty slider.
I'm just perplexed why both changes were introduced, one being mandated, the other optional. With no ability to lower the difficulty by one, that optional ability seems like a token feature.
I've already forgotten about most of you
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if it had said that on the box, i would never have bought this game.
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I just happen to have the box right next to me. (I keep the boxes the games come in for some odd reason. I see two statements "Team up with other heros to create an unbeatable force for justice!" and "Join other heroes". Nowhere did it say, "Play by yourself or in a group, it's your choice!". Let's face it, this is an MMP. The key there is the MP. Yes, sometimes i solo, but usually it is because of a lack of people in my SG that are near my level being on. Most of my SG-mates don't like Sidekicking, so unless they are at or near my level, the MOBs mop the floor with them.
Now, on an additional note, I mostly play a blaster and have reciently hit level 41. I have trouble with the bosses, sometimes with a second player helping. My big complaint is the chain holds or sleeps. (I know there is an insperation out there for this, but they cannot be bought and don't always drop for me.) My one request would be that some of the "secondary" hold powers work on bosses as well. I am a Fire/Ice blaster (hence the name) and my Ice holds do not work against bosses. Ltnts just fine, but not all the time unless i Aim/Build Up them. I'd love it if the likleyhood of a hold taking a boss went up, even if it required Aim/Build Up.
Just my $0.02
Simply put: The Blaster Archtype in a nutshell is damage at range.
This is their primary defence: take it down fast, take it down hard.
This is their primary weakness: low hitpoints, low (or nonexistant) defences, low aggro control with High aggro potential. Mobs favor blasters to almost anything else. Only tanks rate higher in aggro because they specialize in it.
As it was before Issue #3, Fighting a single unnamed boss could be hazardous if unprepared or cornered, Fighting 2 was something that could put you in the hospital, fighting 3 was out of the question, and I have always given special attention to Named bosses if only for the fact that some developer had given it enough attention to at least give it a special name if nothing else (even if it's really just a named LT.)
Frankly, when soloing as a blaster, I find that, given the commonallity of unnamed bosses, that it was unnecissary to make them tougher. I have a long list of common bosses of equal level that I would approach carefully before attacking, and not at all if at +2 or higher or with multiple bosses or large groups of underlings.
With Issue #3, I have found these bosses to be unapprocable now. They do way too much damage (can defeat equal level blaster in two hits) and take way too long to fight as they have more health and are more resistant to damage. This means that prolonged battles can now easily exhaust a blaster's resources leading to certain defeat.
It was my understanding that this was the function of Arch Villians, Monsters, and the new Elite Boss clasifications. Things that no hero should attempted to do solo.
However, even in groups, if insufficiant aggro control is present on the team, the blasters will perish quickly now, and considering the how common at higher levels multi boss mobs are for teams on TF's and Trials, I find this to be a greatly disturbing aspect.
This is compounded even more when you consider that may TF actually require more that 6 players, increasing not only the level of the bosses, but the numbers of them in a mob, and the number of mobs in total, making it perilous for a team to aggro more than one mob at a time (which is easy to do at intersections and branches on a map.)
This is now compounded even further by the fact that TF's set their base level by the level of the highest qualified level on the team. If a blaster is on a team where he is -3 levels from the highest team member, it is possible that he can not be Sidekicked, and will see everything +5 his level for the whole TF. This makes it Imperitive that a blaster be equal to the highest member of the team, otherwise the level difference alone will be enought to make him either live in constant debt, or quit, as their damage will be near ineffective and the basic attacks lethal to him.
It would seem more logical to use a system on TF's and Trials that matches what monsters now do, Con to each player on a team as being equal to their own level +/- an appropriate level difference (such as Villian X = player level +/- bonus level + Type status)
This isnt about having to need any particular power set, primary, secondary or pool, to deal with the new toughness of bosses. It's about being able to fight the threat with the Archtype in general no matter what power selection you use. All power sets should have, and have given the Blaster the ability to handle a boss or two of equal or reasonable level difference. And as a Archtype that emphasizes damage over defence and effects, it is worth noting how this has changed the ability of a blaster to combat such a threat.
It was my understanding that before Issue #3, bosses were supposed to be equaliviant to that of a Hero of the same level, LT's to be noteworthy, and minions to be dangerous only if in large groups or callously ignored. Now, the power gap between LT's and generic bosses is much more significant.
In classic game terms, A boss is supposed to be a unique and challanging foe. Usually specific to a challange or area, and at the head of a large and / or structured group of underlings. But in CoH, many mobs arise that have multiple "bosses", and can sometimes out number the amount of minions in a group. This situation is remincent of having too many Officers and not enough Soilders to go around. If a boss is so important then should their not be only one to a single mob, otherwise they are more like meaner versions of LT's and Minions, and not true bosses.
Cases in point: 2 bosses mugging a pedestrian, finding several Red Conning bosses in a mission only to find the guy who you have to defeat and his crew is a Yellow Conning LT.
If anything, It might be worth asking that, as one of the two primary damage dealing Archtypes, should not Blasters be able to do criticals like scrappers? At higher levels, having a ranged attack is not a significant advantage as all bosses have a significant ranged attack. In addition, the adjustment made that helps scrappers chase down runners, also helps bosses chase down blasters for melee combat. While many of the blaster's secondary attacks are melee or point blank AoE's they do not have the staying power of a scrapper to survive prolonged melee with a boss, as they are now, if the first attack does not incapacitate it, misses, or is to slow in effect allowing the boss to attack first.
The respec... Good topic. Winter Princess has been turned into a "specialist" on it... now it's 13/15 success ratio (87% success... The failures where the first and the third) and 2 of them has been under "new" Boss behaviour... The first time after I3 I died twice in genuine one-shot deaths because as an Ice/Kin controller I prefer to be close and personal with foes... But I consider that Ice powers are PERFECTLY attuned to TV respec... And with them I'm ONLY slightly above 80%. I think this statistic is an OLD one. The last respec for example was the Freak version with a FULL team and we did it with 0 deaths... But there where groups with 6!!!! L+3 Bosses. I have to stess that my char haven't even used ANY of her 3 available respecs (I have to admit that I enjoy the TV trial and I'm very content with my build) but I cannot imagine the nightmare of going into 6!!! L+3 Bosses with a crippled character after a "nerf".
EDIT: Oops... Statistics without information on the gathering means nothing. By success I understand a saved reactor, happy faces and the MISSION ACOMPLISHED message 
... By attempt I understand finishing at least the first preliminary mission (so, for example, retrys to avoid leader difficulty setting or late exemplar effects do not count as an attempt)
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I compared test to live a few days before issue 3 went live, in creys folly. a lvl32 warhulk and crey protector both went from 1460 to 2355 hp (just checked on live, it is still correct), a 61% increase. Their damage went up 61% as well.
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Thanks for the precise numbers - it may vary at some levels, but overall, the increase is much greater than +1.
It shouldn't be too hard to verify that simply by comparing numbers for bosses one level apart.
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I don't feel the new bosses are equal to a +1 boss now. I have characters who used to be able to take on a +2 boss as easily or more easily than a +0 boss now, maybe more, and my risk of one-shotting wasnt as high on the old +2.
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They are just +1.
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Maybe you honestly believe this, but it's just not so. I've *never* had my scrapper 2-shotted by even +2 bosses. Ever. And there's been plenty of opportunity, given how many TF's and Respec trials I've done with that scrapper.
I'm sure you've seen this suggestion before. I hope you have, anyway.
Keep the "named" bosses at the new I3 levels. The ones like "Saiba the Destroya", for instance. And make sure every single mission description where a named boss could exist specifically says there's a "named" boss in there.
Return all "generic" bosses to I2 levels, or maybe buff them up 25%. I3 bosses in TF's and trials are just too much now. Do some data mining on completion and participation rates of the Respec Trials and any other TF's that spawn a lot of bosses, especially Sister Psyche. I'll be surprised if there's not a sharp drop in both of those stats.
You say a single character shouldn't be soloing a single boss. 1 boss = 1.5 characters. What about the respec trial, where there's often greater than a 1:1 boss-character ratio? I haven't tried the respec trials since I3, but I've read reports on this forum, and on my SG forum, about teams of 8 having 10-15 bosses coming at them simultaneously. They take much longer to take down now, so you often have bosses left over at the end of a wave while the new wave comes in - with still more bosses to take down.
I understand why you've powered-up the bosses. And I very much appreciate the long, detailed explanation. And, for the most part, the changes work fine, in solo missions, for at least many scrappers and most tankers.
But I'm not sure you quite understand the full impact of your changes on defenders, controllers, and blasters, and on TF's and trials, or large-group missions.
Statesman,
Regarding the boss changes, I appreciate and approve of the desire to make them tougher. I believe it brings a needed honesty and challenge to the game. Further, I like the fact that you are addressing the environment and not our ATs directly.
Now, having said that, the bosses are just too hard. I could enjoy this challenge on named bosses and AVs but street bosses is too much. My controllers and defenders are getting regularly one or two-shotted -- particularly by blade bosses -- at even levels.
Further, my powers to hold have also apparently been significantly reduced. This is a particularly lethal combination and has made me reconsider playing a primary character played for many, many months. I have even tried adding in a 6-slotted tactics and Temp Invuln using the free respec and have still found myself a great deal weaker against bosses on street hunts. I can only imagine what the respec TFs are like.
Please consider a quick update patch to dial-down a bit on the generic bosses. I concur wholeheartedly with Valerian on the 25% increase from I2 but not the current level of damage.
TheOriginalOgre
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Champion Ogreczar L45 Fire/Rad controller
... and 5 other toons
Statesman,
You are assuming everyone plays as you do. I play differently and for a good reason - immersion and enjoyment.
I will almost always solo my missions - except AV's because I can get into the story and read all of the clues when I am solo.
I can SLOW DOWN when solo. In a group they click get a mission and everyone bundles off to fight. Solo I read my mission. If I get a clue I stop and read it. In a group the dynamic is FAST. If you stop to read a clue the group will be off fighting without you.
So bosses being harder makes it impossible for some of my guys to solo. I have a Grav/Rad controller. He is 26 and has no missions from anything over lvl 14.
Why? He can't solo an even con group of 3 that is normally in each mission. My strongest attack has the same damage as brawl. Nice?
In a group he is amazing. In fact I was able with an SK to lock down 3 lvl 45+ AV's in a row.
But I can't defeat a balloon.
So in this case all the content is lost on this character. I tried to do the respec post I3 and the final room bosses in the last wave destroyed me and shortly after my team. So if someone doesn't have a Golden character (I do have some) they are at an EXTREME disadvantage in play and in leveling at a reasonable rate.
I had this situation happen today. I was playing my level 32 scrapper and was teamed with a friend who is a level 30 empathy defender. We had two friends with us both level 16 blasters sidekicked.
We went into one of my missions it was a freakshow mission and I had my difficulty set two levels above hardboiled. In the first room there were four (4) freak bosses All of my teammates were killed almost instantly by the aoe grenades the freaks launch. I survived (by chewing 4 lucks and about 8 respites) and we eventually defeated all four of them. We then left the mission and adjusted the slider to the easiest level. After doing that the mission went better because it was all minion and LTs but in the last room there were two (2) bosses and one of my friends went down again instantly.
We suffered a total of seven defeats in one mission with a four hero team. Thats not fun its just discouraging. It discourages teams of anything but the best builds at optimum levels. I don't think that's the effect you are looking for with these changes.
Edit: Oh I believe the mission was defeat Saiba and his crew.
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States, it has been the experience of a great many players (mentioned on other threads) that *multiple* unnamed bosses show up on missions that they entered alone.
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I'll check this!
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What I would like to know...
is if a level 28 mission with a team of 4 players level 25 - 28 is supposed to spawn nearly 30 bosses (NOT exaggertaing) for being "Hard-Boiled"
I cant stand the new bosses, I solo while my LFT is up and happened to get a mission from flux in the hollows. I am 10 and went to try my luck, I managed to clear everything but Cragnor (sp?), an 11 boss. I managed to get him to the elevator but in two or three alpha strikes my scrapper was flat dead. Not enough time to even click an insp or click the elevator door.
I recruited a 15 Tank for help and we took him down but not before I had debt and been two or three shotted. Boss changes to me, when paired with the slider make no sense. I understand why they did it but why cant the slider do this instead? The mission text said nothing about a boss, it said "Free 5 officers" and never said bring friends or defeat/watch out for Cragnor.
/sign me up for the boss rollback please. I play a 24 blaster to and now fear any boss solo. They just have flat to much luck and the ranged attacks are to high (cragnor hit me with a boulder for 55 from around a corner).
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I just happen to have the box right next to me. (I keep the boxes the games come in for some odd reason. I see two statements "Team up with other heros to create an unbeatable force for justice!" and "Join other heroes". Nowhere did it say, "Play by yourself or in a group, it's your choice!". Let's face it, this is an MMP. The key there is the MP. Yes, sometimes i solo, but usually it is because of a lack of people in my SG that are near my level being on. Most of my SG-mates don't like Sidekicking, so unless they are at or near my level, the MOBs mop the floor with them.
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Okay, so, since it doesn't expressly say 'You can solo, it's your choice!' but you do it anyways... oh wait, that's right. You're going by what the documentation says.
You know, in theory, documentation also says.
1 hero = 3 white cons
dimension shift = phase shift on a targetted ally
etc. etc. ad nauseum.
nowhere in the documentation does it say 'Make a controller, sit for 35 minutes LFT to help with your mission to kill an even con boss since you probably don't do enough damage to beat his regen rate!' or does it say "Be careful walking down the street or you'll get one shotted by a +1 boss".
people have understood the solo friendliness of this game. obviously you have too if you solo at all. But going by the whole "The box doesn't say you can solo" is kind of a halfhearted and lost arguement. The box also doesn't say you CAN'T solo either.
I thought we were playing a game of Superheros, not Mystery Men Online.
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Now, on an additional note, I mostly play a blaster and have reciently hit level 41. I have trouble with the bosses, sometimes with a second player helping. My big complaint is the chain holds or sleeps. (I know there is an insperation out there for this, but they cannot be bought and don't always drop for me.) My one request would be that some of the "secondary" hold powers work on bosses as well. I am a Fire/Ice blaster (hence the name) and my Ice holds do not work against bosses. Ltnts just fine, but not all the time unless i Aim/Build Up them. I'd love it if the likleyhood of a hold taking a boss went up, even if it required Aim/Build Up.
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Everyone has to stack 2 holds against a boss, unless you're a controller with a critical. That has not changed. My Ice/Dev blaster has no problem putting bosses in their place, but my hold isn't melee ranged, either.
I think the big problem is just the boss damage. Boss HP is fine, the Boss damage is a little outrageous. I like the HP change, but the damage change is pretty sad. There's nothing "epic" about some nameless goon in a mask swinging twice at you and dropping you to the floor before you've had a chance to even properly respond or see what's attacking you.
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I just happen to have the box right next to me. (I keep the boxes the games come in for some odd reason. I see two statements "Team up with other heros to create an unbeatable force for justice!" and "Join other heroes". Nowhere did it say, "Play by yourself or in a group, it's your choice!". Let's face it, this is an MMP. The key there is the MP.
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1. The "MMP" bit has been brought up and refuted so many times that by now the comment is likely to draw some ire. The phrase is "massively multiplayer." If that's meant to refer to teaming, and the maximum team size is 8... that's massive? Then Halo 2 is massively multiplayer too. It makes much more sense for the "massively multiplayer" to refer to a persistent game world inhabited by multiple players.
2. The original point isn't refuted by what the game box says: nearly all of the advertising for this game mentions going it alone as a "lone hero" as a viable option. It's usually presented as something like "fight crime as a lone hero, or team up with other heroes." If the game box had said "Soloing is discouraged", I wouldn't have believed those ads. I wouldn't have bought the game either.
I enjoy teaming occasionally, but that's the icing on the cake. I wouldn't have bought the cake if I'd been told it was going to be 80% icing, which is where the progression seems to be heading.
+1 on the Dad issue. Before my kid was born, i thought about going on WoW. I've beta tested it in Europe and i thought WoW was too time consuming compared to City. But still, i wanted to join most of my friends i met in previouses MMORPG.
Now my kid is there. I can barely play because of time issues. That's normal. And i've chosen not to go on WoW because i can play when i want, without asking ppl to help all the time (it takes time to find help, and sometimes the correct help *look innocently towards bad pick up groups*). All this was the strength of CoH. With bosses that hard, the game experience is screwed.
Now, more on general comic books issue : not every single super hero is going to knock at a random other super hero's door each time he'll fight more than thugs with baseball bats. Because if he would do that all the time, he wouldnt be a "super hero", he would be just "super".
And apologies on my english, it's not my native language.
I also understand the need to improve the game overall for everybody but then there are some of us that do at times like to " solo " which is one of the MAIN reasons I came back to playing COH after years of playing EQ which is a " group " oriented game.
There has to be a balance for both sides imho.
My latest mission after the patch, I died 5 times to a boss whom I would NOT have before this was implemented.
Not asking for the mobs to be nerfed back to where they were but toned down to the point where tactics and strategies can be better used.
Thank you for your time