Announcing Our European Community Coordinator
By
2wierd,
Posted on: 2004-11-12 11:04 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Thanks for answering my question Bridger.
To be perfectly honest im not really satisfied, infact its fair to say im decidedly unhappy with the way this is going, The SG i am a founder of is a British Supergroup with some non British Europeans and one or two Americans (they make up a tiny percentage of Zero Meridian) for the most part the reason we decided to make it a British Supergroup was so that communication could be pretty much effortless people would get each others jokes without much effort etc etc.
The problem for us occurs when our recruitment almost entirely dries up because any new European and indeed British COH customers will invariably go to the British server which means that over the course of time like all Guilds , groups or Supergroups we will gradually lose members that we cannot replace ... unless we all purchase a british version of the game and move over....
not very fair in my opinion.
i look forward to your reply
regards
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I don't get why people are upset over this... The people who choose to play on the European servers have that choice, Europeans that have the US version can stay on the current servers. People who have limited understanding of English can get a game in their language, as well as support, etc in their own native language.
CoH is expanding worldwide which makes the game more successful, which in turn brings in more money for the company. We already get tons of extra stuff right now from this game (Issues, etc), so the more successful this game is, the more stuff we will get, right?
Seems like a pretty positive thing in my eyes. I also think it's pretty friggen kewl that Bridger is taking the time to answer all these questions.
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Well I'm not happy because I have been paying my subscriptions since launch and have wanted a comic. I was OK with not getting it while it was a game that was only officially released in North America.
Now the game is being officially released here I want to be treated the same as customers in the US. I want competition eligibility, comics and down time for maintenance at a time that is not in the middle of the day for people in Europe.
I also want to be able to play at times when other people are around without having to do a task force in the middle of the night.
I was invited to beta, as were many Non-North Americans, so when the game went live of course a lot of us decided to purchase the game there and then.
How many people with a character they have put a lot of time and effort into developing would be HAPPY?
Any other questions? 
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it infamy!!!
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In another post, ramas100 also said:
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It goes without saying that segregation has no benefits whatsoever for the consumer.
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That really depends on whether you feel that localised versions of the game complete with dedicated customer and billing support, websites, message boards and community teams in those languages and at peak European times offer any benefits...
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all of this is possible with different language servers, with local teams, that you can pick no matter where you are. it is still not a reason to have "us" and "european" versions of the game, when you just need different servers. the servers can be based in the individual countries, with support for that server in that country/language, gms for that sever in that country etc, but you are able to join a us/french/german server from anywhere.
there is no reason to have a seperate version of the game for europe, it does nothing but split the users and offer less choice. you can achieve the same goals without dividing the community.
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I want competition eligibility
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Then start petitioning your lawmakers. Because nine times out of ten, its varying international laws that cause those problems.
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comics
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That will probably happen if they contract with a european publisher. But I wont second guess them on that.
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and down time for maintenance at a time that is not in the middle of the day for people in Europe.
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And thats what is going to happen with the European servers.
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I also want to be able to play at times when other people are around without having to do a task force in the middle of the night.
I was invited to beta, as were many Non-North Americans, so when the game went live of course a lot of us decided to purchase the game there and then.
How many people with a character they have put a lot of time and effort into developing would be HAPPY?
Any other questions?
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Well, if you have had no problems playing on the US servers NOW, I don't see why everything is going to change just because they open the European servers.
And as a paying customer, btw, I demand that the game be translated into Klingon. And I want Klingon Empire servers, too! Because I'm a paying customer, and we Trekkies deserve it just as much as you fancy pants Europeans!
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Back again...
R0cktart joined Rangus in his quest:
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I think I know who you are, 1st initial S?
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No 
B
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Really? Hmmmm.
Hero14
SS/INV Tanker on Virtue
Superman Returns (INV/SS Guide for I8)
Bridger wrote:
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Rika_ came back to ask:
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Are you avoiding my question as to why this decision was taken in the first place?
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Nope. It's just that, as a few people have pointed out, it's a business decision. While City of Heroes may be played online, the people and companies responsible for running it are based in the real world, and that means that we have to deal with the same restrictions, limitations and practical concerns as any other multinational company.
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Except that doesn't sound like much of an explanation but an excuse? After all most europeans would log out around the same time the americans log off (around 18PM EST) - it would seem better to have some machines used 100% of the time than more machines used 50% of the time...
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No one will be forced to buy the game again. If you are happy playing on the US servers, you are welcome to continue doing so.
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Ah, but what if you want to play on both?
Remember Everquest - they planned the segregation until the player base rose up in anger -now you can choose either as you want.
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Can we still log in here with suggestions to the developers or do we have to do that before we get locked out?
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Likewise, no one with an active subscription to the US version of CoH will be locked out of these boards .
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But only if you have a US account - segregation again...
{quote]all of this is possible with different language servers, with local teams, that you can pick no matter where you are
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Having a worldwide CS scattered in different places is a bad idea.
-Redundant hierachy
You will need to have Corporate managers on every site, to take decisions, else you'll have to phone overseas every time a decision is to be made. Although this can be justified in some matters, having to phone every time isn't a good idea.
-Costs.
Take the ubiquitous irish call centers. They usually cater to the whole of Europe, it' s easier to have an european center than a franch, AND a german, AND a whatever country you want.
And having a worldwide CS is difficult too.
-Time zones.
Bridger was right, when saying that finding a native french speaker to work shifts answering CS calls wouldn't be easy, or would be prohibitively expensive. CS is one of the biggest drains in the MMO industry.
It is much more practical to have a localised structure, where people will have the mindset of local gamers, and know how to deal with them, answer their questions, alleviate their fears, and know how to tell something.
Being French myself, I have nothing but utmost praise for the CoH CS team, but had bad experiences with SOE's, where getting support at euro times was near impossible.
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1. Language localisation. However, this could just as easily be done on a 'global' server. Plenty of French speakers in Canada, guys...
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While it's true that the initial translation could be done for a 'global' server (you'd probably still need to use Europeans, though - the French spoken in Canada is not the same as that spoken in Europe), when it comes to supporting the game, you start needing a fair number of fluent and preferably native speakers for customer and billing support, QA and so on. For the community side, you really need people who have at least lived in the relevant country for long enough to understand the gaming and popular culture - ideally someone who grew up there.
Finding good people like this outside of Europe isn't easy. Finding good people like this outside of Europe who are willing to work night shifts on a permanent basis (which they'd have to in order to be available at peak European times) is all but impossible.
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So if I get this straight ... if I were a french speaking canadian (which I am) and I wanted to play on a french server I would have to import an Euro version, pay my subscription in Euros and play on Euro servers ... because ... the french is different ...
I'm assuming setting up a server in America ... is quite a different ball game ... and then .. maybe not ... as for the french ... the european french can be easily understood by canadians (not the other way around for some reason ) it may bring about a few giggles ... but it would be better than english for those that have trouble with english.
So why not setup the european version on a north american server (and I'm assuming spanish would probably be appreciated by alot of people around here)? Finding good people to work for you then at the hours you need them (even if they shared the same boards and all) would be pretty easy if you had a small office locally ...
Probably too much work ... but you have most of it done already ... all you need is a lil hardware and a small dark office space to sit one person Think about it ...
Char Site | My DeviantArt
Global=@Thornster
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Likewise, no one with an active subscription to the US version of CoH will be locked out of these boards (unless you get yourself banned, of course).
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So that means that to get access to the board where the devs hang out, you got to have a US version of CoH? Makes you really feel like a lesser worth customer...
Discussed the "separate version" with some friends (and fellow CoH players) and it seems like it does put a real stopper in word-of-mouth growth. The early adopters play on US servers, and when they pull in their friends into their game, I forsee a lot of returns when the recruitee cannot team up with the recruiter, since they have to play on different servers...
When I got real angry over the lawsuit last week, I went down to the local gaming store when I purchased the (US version) to get the DVD version to support Cryptic and "vote with my wallet". But CoH was no longer available in any form... I can only guess it's because of the future europan release. 
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I want competition eligibility
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Then start petitioning your lawmakers. Because nine times out of ten, its varying international laws that cause those problems.
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comics
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That will probably happen if they contract with a european publisher. But I wont second guess them on that.
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and down time for maintenance at a time that is not in the middle of the day for people in Europe.
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And thats what is going to happen with the European servers.
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I also want to be able to play at times when other people are around without having to do a task force in the middle of the night.
I was invited to beta, as were many Non-North Americans, so when the game went live of course a lot of us decided to purchase the game there and then.
How many people with a character they have put a lot of time and effort into developing would be HAPPY?
Any other questions?
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Well, if you have had no problems playing on the US servers NOW, I don't see why everything is going to change just because they open the European servers.
And as a paying customer, btw, I demand that the game be translated into Klingon. And I want Klingon Empire servers, too! Because I'm a paying customer, and we Trekkies deserve it just as much as you fancy pants Europeans!
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What I meant is that I can ACCEPT not being able to enter competitions now, while the game is still only OFFICIALLY released in North America but I want to be allowed to enter the UK competitions even if I still play ont the US servers when the UK goes live, as I will be a UK customer, only I'll continue to play on the US side.
I can live with the downtime as it is now, after weighing the pros and cons I would prefer to stay on the US servers rather then 1, having to pay again for another version of the game, 2, Starting from scratch (Which having a level 40 main, I REALLY don't want), 3, I would lose a lot of team mates.
If I have to move the UK servers to get the UK benefits then so be it, but I do NOT want to pay again for the privilege, I also want my characters transfered after putting so much time, effort and MONEY into playing them. Also I want my prestige powers from both the pre order and the DVD to be carried over.
So all in all, it is best for me to either stay on the US servers or better still, for CoH to be global as so many other games are. That way I can benefit from both worlds.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it infamy!!!
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I'll fully admit that daoc is exactly where my secondary worry, about inferior service, comes from.
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I find it funny that (athough it talked about a different game) you said this after pointing to SOE as something to compare one's self to.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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What I meant is that I can ACCEPT not being able to enter competitions now, while the game is still only OFFICIALLY released in North America but I want to be allowed to enter the UK competitions even if I still play ont the US servers when the UK goes live, as I will be a UK customer, only I'll continue to play on the US side.
I can live with the downtime as it is now, after weighing the pros and cons I would prefer to stay on the US servers rather then 1, having to pay again for another version of the game, 2, Starting from scratch (Which having a level 40 main, I REALLY don't want), 3, I would lose a lot of team mates.
If I have to move the UK servers to get the UK benefits then so be it, but I do NOT want to pay again for the privilege, I also want my characters transfered after putting so much time, effort and MONEY into playing them. Also I want my prestige powers from both the pre order and the DVD to be carried over.
So all in all, it is best for me to either stay on the US servers or better still, for CoH to be global as so many other games are. That way I can benefit from both worlds.
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Now see, I can understand the concerns about not being able to enter European contests if you play on a US server. But odds are, if they hold "Eurocentric" contests, it wouldn't matter what "specific" server you were playing on as long as you lived in the Eurpean nations. As for the character transfer, even we *americans* don't have the ability to transfer characters between servers (And the game is officially only a US release right now). Now, if in the future they bring out the ability to transfer characters, then I would support the ability for existing customers to transfer their characters to the Eurpoean servers free of charges. (At least, as long as it was a one time per customer kind of thing).
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It goes without saying that segregation has no benefits whatsoever for the consumer.
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That really depends on whether you feel that localised versions of the game complete with dedicated customer and billing support, websites, message boards and community teams in those languages and at peak European times offer any benefits...
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Since my only language is English (real) then I would have to say no. I don't mean to sound overly negative. I can see real advantage in French & German servers. But why a separate server for the UK?
PS: I really tried to learn another language at school but I was having enough trouble with English at the time
PPS: Phone and online support in the UK seems to be being farmed out to India. Including firms that train their people on local accents and whats happening in popular UK soaps. Ah, global trade!
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
I have to add my voice to the chorus against the segregation plan. Its a bad idea from the very start and will weaken the game for no benefit.
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We'll have to wait and see if character transfer is even going to be technically possible before we can start working on things like that, I'm afraid.
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It was a while ago now, and has no doubt been erased by the boards automated forgetfulness, but another red name (Positron I think) responded to a previous thread asking about server transfers (in particular to the euro servers when they are launched). As I remember it, his response implied that a transfer was definitely possible and that internally he was "pushing to make sure the transfer would be free of charge" for players migrating to euro servers.
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We're not going to do localisation in a couple of days. But we don't have to wait for a patch or update to be ready for release before we translate the text - we can start before the code even enters internal testing. As a result, if there's any delay in patches or updates between the US and Europe, it will only be a matter of days.
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Well for a start, any delay is too long, even if it is only a few days. We gamers are an impatient group, but you know that. I'll accept that translation to foreign languages are hard and delays may happen here though. Whatever happens though, do not delay patching servers for one language because of translation issues in a different language - this was another of the DAoC problems that drove me nuts.
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I know a lot of gamers got burned by the European version of DAoC - I was one of them. We're going to do better. DAoC started six months behind and said they would 'catch up'. We're starting up to date and are going to stay that way.
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Quite frankly, I have trouble believeing this. I too got burned by DAoC and this was one of the reasons I gave up on it and quit. You'll be starting with an initial US version and translating it - lets call this version 1 for simplicity. By the time it is translated into the various languages, the US will already be running version 2 (or 3, or whatever), so you are already a patch behind. How do you actually catch up from the start, without 'pausing' the US development?
Now what happens when the a new language version is QA'd and problems are found with the translation - potentially more delays.
To further complicate things, what happens when you get a language specific gameplay bug (these things can happen)? E.g. somehow the German version crashes in a particular situation where the US version doesn't. I very much doubt we going to have European devs to sort issues like this out, so back to the US it goes.
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That really depends on whether you feel that localised versions of the game complete with dedicated customer and billing support, websites, message boards and community teams in those languages and at peak European times offer any benefits...
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As others have said you can do all of that (with the possible exception of the fully localised game) right now, on the US servers, simply by hiring some staff who speak the right languages. All of the 'supporting services' are completely unrelated to segregating the US and Euro servers and can be implemented in any case. With this new-fangled internet thing, the employees don't even have to be in the same country as the servers they are supporting (as long as you have a sysadmin near the servers you can wake up in the direst of emergancies).
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No one will be forced to buy the game again. If you are happy playing on the US servers, you are welcome to continue doing so.
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Just remember that new Euro players will be playing on new Euro servers, not the US server you are currently using. Over time the population on your US server during Eueo peak time will dwindle and no replacements will he heading your way...
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Likewise, no one with an active subscription to the US version of CoH will be locked out of these boards (unless you get yourself banned, of course).
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What about those with only an active subscription to the EU version? Are they only allowed to talk on the EU boards? If so, why? No offence bridger, a European Community Coordinator is a great thing to have, but sometimes I want to bring things to the attention of the Devs, and I bet they won't be reading the EU boards as much as the US ones.
Simply put everything into a single package and let the users choose which server they want to play on in that particualr session. If that is an EU/French server they play in French, if it is an US/English server they play in US English, and if it is EU/English then they play in US English as well (because quite honestly I don't want you wasting my ssubscription on translating your version of English to mine as there is no benefit at all for this).
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I have to add my voice to the chorus against the segregation plan. Its a bad idea from the very start and will weaken the game for no benefit.
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Has it occured to any of you complaining about there being seperate European and US versions of the game that NCsoft probably isn't doing this just for the fun of it? That if it were so simple to have a global edition of the game, that's how they'd do it? And that the fact they aren't doing it that way probably means that there are good reasons for having seperate versions? Or do you just assume that they're all idiots who haven't even thought about what they're doing?
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but to cause all this trouble for the existing customers seems to be a really bad idea.
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What trouble exactly?
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but to cause all this trouble for the existing customers seems to be a really bad idea.
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What trouble exactly?
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Right, to me it seems like something positive that the game will be launched in Europe. It doesn't affect me in the least, except that the game I play is more successful.
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Has it occured to any of you complaining about there being seperate European and US versions of the game that NCsoft probably isn't doing this just for the fun of it? That if it were so simple to have a global edition of the game, that's how they'd do it? And that the fact they aren't doing it that way probably means that there are good reasons for having seperate versions? Or do you just assume that they're all idiots who haven't even thought about what they're doing?
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why dont you read the whole thread before you post? numerous people here have played mmos where the game was seperated into different versions, and games where it wasnt seperated, and are expressing their preference for the latter. im sure theres good reasons for why they are doing it as they are, and theres good reasons not to...as we are stating. if, for example, sony can manage to have different region servers (with native languages etc) accessable to everyone, im sure ncsoft can do the same. no one here is saying "the devs must be idiots" they are just voicing from their past experiences.
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but to cause all this trouble for the existing customers seems to be a really bad idea.
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What trouble exactly?
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Right, to me it seems like something positive that the game will be launched in Europe. It doesn't affect me in the least, except that the game I play is more successful.
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If you read the last 17 pages, umpteen people explain that while it won't affect you except in terms of lower populations outside of peak hours, it will have a negative effect on everyone who is playing in Europe.
Contrary to your statement above, if it launches in the daoc style rather than the soe approach, effects on european players will be entirely negative despite the fact that the game will have more players.
Which is a shame.
One point that hasn't been mentioned so far is subscription rates.
I'd be willing to be small amounts of RL money that after conversion, beacuse of the lower EU playing population and current exhange rates, people who switch to the EU version will be paying a higher monthly rate as well has having to buy a game they already own again (after all, EU players will have to pay for localisation for the two countries that get that, as well as contributing the relevant share to CoH development).
It's not because Cyptic/NCSoft are being evil or moneygrabbing, but simply because the inferior arrangements being proposed are likely to cost more.
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but to cause all this trouble for the existing customers seems to be a really bad idea.
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What trouble exactly?
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In simple terms these are my concerns:
- fewer servers available = fewer slots for alts
- potential delays in getting updates due to translation issues *
- potential delays in getting urgent bugixes subsequent to patches *
- loss of access to the US forums, and therefore to the devs
- having to buy 'Euro' edition = additional cost
- potentially not being able to transfer characters
- loss of friends on US server if we transfer to euro servers
- dwindling population on US servers in Euro peak times if we don't transfer
The two I marked with a * may be more applicable to the localisation effort that has to go in to translate the game, rather than the segregation into EU and US playerbases. These are probably unavoidable risks no matter what happens.
Now someone took a look at this issue, presumably looked at the risks and benefits, and seems to think that segregation is the way to go. Personally, I just can't see any benefits from the players perspective. Someone please point out what I'm missing?
Ive been thinking a lot about this today, and though it still pisses me off to have to buy the game again, I guess I will. I do like meeting yanks and Canadians and other forn types whilst in Paragon City, and have started to meet some of them regularly, but there you go - NCSoft arent going to listen to any of us because we're probably a tiny proportion of their US customer base and theres a whole load more new UK (and french yada yada) customers out there who dont know and wont know what we're moaning about.
I will buy the game again.
However, I am aghast at the thought of buying it again, installing it, starting it up and creating MrCaptainMan again only to be told at the Enter Your Heroes Name bit that someone has already chosen it!
Imagine, all you Brits oposting here who are thinking of buying the UK version and recreating your heroes on the British servers. Imagine if your beloved heroes moniker has been grabbed by some snot-nosed kid from Cardiff before you get a chance to use it again.
Bridger, theres another question Id like answered (btw, your name makes me wince everytime I type it without 'Mr' in front - I cant help but think of you as Noel Coward) - I purchased my current CoH version online, downloaDED the client , bought the cd key, all from NCSofts site at PlayNC. I live in Poland, y'see.
When the UK version comes out, I'll still be living in Poland. Is there going to be a Polish releease? If so, which language and server will it be in/on? If not, can I download the UK version from anywhere? And if so, can you tell me when?
MrCaptainMan (freedom)
Poland, originally from Cardiff, UK
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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as a european :P i refuse to buy this thing again, there is no technical reasoning for it. All throughout this thread you have not once attempted to justify why it is necessary to pay for the game again. It is retarded, it makes no sense and the worrying thing is you know full well it doesn't :/
SOE never stooped to this level and i cannot believe you guys are
in february WoW europe will launch....now...do i spend my money again to get a duplicate of a game i already have or do i try WoW out????????! you've made the decision for me and others already.
i convinced a bunch of my friends to come to CoH, all of them burned the game out within 2months and im the last man standing :P but as persuasive as i am there is no way i can convince them to buy the game again.....playing with RL friends is a big big deal for me
First of all, I'd like to say welcome to Bridger.
Secondly, I'd like to add my comments on the "Euro server" debate. I have followed the development of CoH avidly from almost the very start. Recently I have moved house which has finaly allowed me a broadband connection. I was able to get my copy of the game when a friend went to New York for a holiday and kindly picked it up for me. (I was unable to justify the total cost of importing).
I have a sizable number of friends I still regularly play Champions with, and CoH was a dream come true for us. I have been the only one of us able to get the game so far, the others waiting for the UK release. I (quite naively, it seems), have been looking forward to playing with them all when they get their UK copies. I have made many friends in Paragon in the short time I have been a resident, most people are friendly,courteous and always willing to help, but it is a bind having to regularly play until 3am in order to have a reasonable number of people on line. I always get surprised reactions when I have to log off after being in a team for only 2 hours because I have to get up again in 4 hours to go to work, when the team I'm with have just logged on after their dinners. At weekends when I could get some time in, the server is down for reset in the middle of the day.(Nobody forces me to play, I know, I know). I have been greatly anticipating playing on a server with lots of people that keep the same time as me, not to mention my real life mates.
I can cope with not having my characters transfered, I'm a newish player so the emotional impact will not be as great for me as for others.
I can even cope with someone getting to my character name before me, all the best names have already been taken anyway.
What I find completely unacceptable is having to pay again (at Britain's artificialy inflated prices), for the privilege of playing with new players from my own country. As far as I can see, European players have supported this game, and community, just as avidly (albeit in fewer numbers) than our US/Canadian cousins. I may be showing my utter ingnorance, but why can an account not be transfered from the US to Europe? A nominal admin fee would not be too painfull, but to shell out all over again? I've paid my dues to Cryptic and NCS, it's not like I've pirated the software.
Paying again to make the move is simply not an option for me as I have two children under 5 <que violin solo>, and I'm sure I'm not alone, weather it be teenagers with limited funds or us old wrinklies with bigger financial commitments.
I don't want this to be a rant, but I realy love this game. I find it incoprehensible that such an otherwise customer orientated operation, should find this kind of move necessary.
I'm bitterly disappointed, not to say outraged at this decision, and I sincerely hope that those concerned will reconsider this policy.
If you have read all of this mamoth post, well done! It is realy just to register my thoughts with the appropriate people on the dev team. Hopefully, if enough of us do, it might bring about a change of heart.
don't forget also that euro's who jumped onto the u.s servers - some of them have quit or taken a sabbatical while waiting for the euro servers to come up...imagine their reaction when they find out they have to buy another copy of the game lol!
you're only driving more people towards WoW or other mmo's with this business plan :P because it makes no sense to the consumer to purchase something they already have, the net gain of having a euro copy of CoH is not substantial enough to justify the purchase - why not buy a whole new game?
I would add, about the DAOC comparison, that things are different. DAOC is contracted to GOA in Europe, while NCSoft is taking care of the localisation process of CoH. That will account for better responsiveness and shorter delays.