Hero14

I always wanted to know about the major Exploits!!!1!

I've been around since shortly after beta...and every issue or so, there would be a buzz around the forums about some "Exploit" (with a capital E, so you knew it was serious). It usually was locked down quickly (patched, I assumed) and life went on...only NO ONE COULD EVER SPEAK OF IT AGAIN.

Well, now's the time. Can anyone tell us of the old Exploits? What were your favorites (as a player or dev)?

And the big question for the devs...was there ever an Exploit y'all knew about before hand, but never thought we'd find?

[ QUOTE ]
One of your stated goals was to have a tank that could team in PvE. Without Taunt, your Inv/SS tank offers nothing to a team until Invincibility at level 18 -- until then your teammates would be better off with something, anything other than a tauntless, aggro aura-less scranker.

Inv has no aggro generation until Invincibility at 18. Without Taunt at 10, SS has no group aggro generation until hand clap at 16. Your supertank has nothing except Gauntlet, which is simply insufficient at low level in large (6+ player) groups.

I strongly suggest that any new players take Taunt at level 10 and then respec out of it later if they absolutely hate it. You are doing a disservice to new players who think they can join a large low-level team and do anything resembling tanking without aggro management abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, in a nutshell, I disagree. In my experience, you can get by (even on teams) just fine by relying on gauntlet. We have plenty of lower power, quick recharging attacks to spread the Gauntlet love around. In teams, I don't try to out damage the scrappers...or the blasters...or the defenders...wait, yes I do on the defenders.

If there is a spot Taunt fills better than Gauntlet/Invincibility, it's range. In team play, you will constantly have to keep an eye on your teammates to make sure they're not getting cornered out of your Gauntlet range. (One thing I like about SS, the "shockwave" graphic from each hit is roughly equal to the Gauntlet range)

Taunt would take some of that concern off your back, and if you really want it...well, it's a tight build in the early levels. There's not much you can do that won't push stamina back, so (I hate to say this) I'd consider skipping Haymaker for it. Then pick up Haymaker in place of RPD at 24. Me, I'd rather have the attack.

For everyone making up their minds on this issue, it has been discussed quite a bit amongst the tanker forums. I recommend taking a peak there, and I also recommend reading Circeus' So you want to know about taunt..., an excellent guide explaining how taunt and gauntlet work.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the other replies regarding Hasten. It is too much of an endurance hog for any Inv/- tank I've played. And superspeed is simply redundant with Flight. You can feel sufficiently Superman-ish and skip the Speed pool, IMO, while freeing up two power choices and 4 extra slots.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree it's redundant...this is a concept build. It's just intended to be a useful concept build (your mileage may vary). Hasten is an endurance hog, which is why I run it concurrently with Conserve Power - those two together are awesome for a Tanker, and I can't recommend them enough.

[ QUOTE ]
I would caution new players reading this guide to be careful when choosing powers that seem to save you slots in other powers, such as Hasten, Focused Accuracy, and Conserve Power. It is easy to look at these and say, "hey, I can take these powers and never have to slot recharge, accuracy, or endurance reduction!! Gimme damage!" Unfortunately, all of these powers are endurance hogs and/or are not always available. Plus, if you ever have an artificially reduced level from being an Exemplar, many of your high-end powers will be unavailable and your optimized slotting will fail you. My advice would be to take these powers as situational powers only; do not plan your build around them.

[/ QUOTE ]

For me, Hasten/Conserve Power is situational. I don't like Focused Accuracy for the very reasons you mention. I do rely on Invincibility/Rage for my accuracy, and yes, it is a bit of a gamble. But, any Inv tanker should plan on running Invinc full time anyway, and as a click-power, running Rage full time isn't that bad. You are dead-on about Exmplaring...it's not so bad once you have SO enhancements, but even so, losing any of the core INV/SS powers is very painful.

[ QUOTE ]
I am just glad you didn't think I was slammin your work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all! Discussion is good, and the more discussion, the more helpful guides like this can be.

[ QUOTE ]
I like the guide, good info here.. I do however disagree with a couple of things.. The second recharge in your attack powers will negate the endredux you have in them, not to mention Hasten. My Inv/SS uses 1 Acc, 3 Dmg, 1 End Redux, and 1 Recharge in each attack, he still sucks endo like no tomorrow without hasten. My second problem is slotting up Unyelding. As you said, it gives you a very small boost to resists, I have mine slotted with just 1 end redux, I found the returns on 3 slotting RPD much better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel pretty balanced on End usage. Consider that I put those extra recharges in Haymaker and Knockout Blow, the two slowest attacks in SS. As for Hasten, I picked that up after Conserve Power, and usually use those in combination. I like Hasten, but it's very situation for me...I never had back in the perma-Hasten days, so I don't try to run it that way. Anyway...Conserve Power is a key element to having Hasten in this build, I think.

For slotting Unyielding...well, my goal was to eek out every bit of utility from the core powers. Even so, I don't feel starved for the enhancement slots elsewhere. In fact...

[ QUOTE ]
Just a question here. why would you 3 slot Super Speed? Two slots maxes it from all that I understand, heck most enjoy it with just 1 slot..

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm under the impression that it takes 3 to max Super Speed, but it's been awhile since I crunched those numbers. Mostly, I dropped those slots there because I didn't have anywhere else I wanted to put them. This isn't to say you couldn't find a better place for them...you probably can. I just feel by that point, there's little difference those two slots will make.

[ QUOTE ]
I do understand this is a concept build. You might want to stress that a bit more, I was very happy to see that you did say this is a high level build. You might want to add that this build should be respeced into. I had the pleasure of running with Havock and talked with him at length about his old superman build. In fact I respeced into it at one time much earlier than I should have. The superman build can be fun but not at lower levels, it just dosen't work without having enough slots..

[/ QUOTE ]

I do try to stress this build is really post-SOs. There's more notes throughout the guide for the lower levels, but I always feel people should pick their enhancements based on their needs at the time. Early on, you really need accuracy in your attacks...then def/res becomes important...then it's endurance...then def/res...and on, and on, and on.

I'm honestly not sure how much of a respec this build should be...I'd still probably choose my slots in the same order, I'd just use different enhancements at different times. More acc and end redux early on, for example. It's hard for me to say, because I was already in the 40s by the time ED hit...I do have a new INV/SS tanker at around 8 right now, so I'll see how he fairs in his adolescence.

Superman Returns, an I8 INV/SS Concept Guide based on Havok's Superman 3.0.

Superman Returns (Superman v4.0) [I8]

It's been a long time since Havoc's Superman guide hit the boards, but it's helped many an INV/SS tanker out along the way. I know it's been a huge influence on myself, and by way of thanks I've decided to revive and revise the ol' Superman guide for I7. An important thing to note: there's been many changes since the last guide, powers adjustments, enhancement diversification, the global defense reduction are just the biggies. Tanks, especially INV/SS Tanks, are not what they used to be. Many will tell you it's not possible to play a "Superman"-like build in this game any more. So, let me tell you what this build is not.

This build is not:<ul type="square">
[*] The maximum ammount of defense possible.
[*] Optimized for PVP.[/list]
Not a huge list, but those two items are vitally important to some. I'm happy with my build as it is, knowing it's not the strongest out there. It is very playable, and a very good build for the concept character. I also hope this guide will help give anyone who wants it a better understanding of the INV/SS sets. So now I've told you what it's not, here's what this guide is.

My goals for this build:<ul type="square">
[*] Maximize defense &amp; resists inherant to the INV primary.
[*] Maintain a solid attack string.
[*] Be good for solo play, as well as groups.
[*] Use as few power pools as possible.
[*] Include flight &amp; superspeed.[/list]Please note, this is primarily a PVE build. I don't want to exclude PVP, but I honestly don't PVP much so I can't say how this build would work.

Special Note: I've built this guide around Havoc's Supermna 3.0 guide, but everything you see here is my own opinions, Havoc had no involvement with this update. In his honor, however, I'm keeping the Havoc Happy Index (but using my own rankings, not his).

Build Strengths:

Invulnerability is a fairly well-rounded, broad spectrum defensive set. It provides excellent resistance to smashing/lethal attacks (the most common damage type in the game), and moderate resistance to energies,elements and toxic. It provides no psionic resistance whatsoever - but it does provide good protection to all forms of mez effects.

In companion to this, Super Strength helps maintain survivability through knockdown effects on most attacks. Keeping your enemy off his feat means you're throwing more punches then they are. Add to this Rage which, with just 3 SOs for recharge, boosts your damage and accuracy to scranker levels. Alas, it's not all roses and kittens...


Build Weaknesses:

It's simple you have 2 weakness:<ul type="square">[*] Psionics (we all know this)[*] Toggle Dropping[/list]While Enhancement Diversification may have taken the edge of some powers, the extra slots allow us to accomadate endurance needs better than before. Even so, a prolonged battle will eat away at your End bar, and the endurance loss when Rage drops can be the nail in your coffin. Factor in Brawl, teh uber PVP power, and you'll learn to be protective of your toggles pretty quickly.

So what is the build?

What you see here is an end-game build, slotted as you would with Single Origin enhancements towards the late stages of the game. I wouldn't recommend slotting in this exact order. In other words, take the slots at the levels indicated, but pick enhancements to meet the needs of your level.

Notes on individual powers are in the section beyond this, but basically...you find you need Accuracy and Endurance Reduction enhancements in all your attacks at the early stages. In the Dual Origin range, you might even want 2 Endurance Reduction on the more costly powers until you reach Stamina at 20. By the time you reach Invincibility at level 18, you can start replacing the Accuracy enhancements with Damage. I feel between Rage and Invincibility you won't need Accuracy enhancements at all past level 30...but you'll always need Endurance Reduction in just about every power which uses Endurance.

[/b]Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength

01) --&gt; Temp Invulnerability==&gt; DmgRes(1)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(3)EndRdx(11)
01) --&gt; Jab==&gt; Dmg(1)
02) --&gt; Punch==&gt; EndRdx(2)Dmg(7)Dmg(34)Dmg(37)Rechg(46)
04) --&gt; Dull Pain==&gt; Rechg(4)Rechg(5)Rechg(5)Heal(45)Heal(46)Heal(46)
06) --&gt; Haymaker==&gt; EndRdx(6)Dmg(7)Dmg(13)Dmg(37)Rechg(40)Rechg(43)
08) --&gt; Unyielding==&gt; DmgRes(8)DmgRes(9)DmgRes(9)EndRdx(11)
10) --&gt; Air Superiority==&gt; EndRdx(10)Dmg(13)Dmg(34)Dmg(37)
12) --&gt; Swift==&gt; Run(12)
14) --&gt; Fly==&gt; Fly(14)Fly(15)Fly(15)
16) --&gt; Health==&gt; Heal(16)Heal(17)Heal(17)
18) --&gt; Invincibility==&gt; DefBuf(18)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(19)EndRdx(23)TH_Buf(31)TH_Buf(33)
20) --&gt; Stamina==&gt; EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --&gt; Knockout Blow==&gt; EndRdx(22)Dmg(23)Dmg(34)Dmg(36)Rechg(40)Rechg(43)
24) --&gt; Resist Physical Damage==&gt; DmgRes(24)DmgRes(25)DmgRes(25)
26) --&gt; Tough Hide==&gt; DefBuf(26)DefBuf(27)DefBuf(27)
28) --&gt; Rage==&gt; Rechg(28)Rechg(29)Rechg(29)TH_Buf(33)TH_Buf(33)TH_Buf(42)
30) --&gt; Resist Elements==&gt; DmgRes(30)DmgRes(31)DmgRes(31)
32) --&gt; Unstoppable==&gt; Rechg(32)
35) --&gt; Resist Energies==&gt; DmgRes(35)DmgRes(36)DmgRes(36)
38) --&gt; Foot Stomp==&gt; EndRdx(38)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Rechg(40)Rechg(43)
41) --&gt; Conserve Power==&gt; Rechg(41)Rechg(42)Rechg(42)
44) --&gt; Hasten==&gt; Rechg(44)Rechg(45)Rechg(45)
47) --&gt; Laser Beam Eyes==&gt; EndRdx(47)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Rechg(50)
49) --&gt; Super Speed==&gt; Run(49)Run(50)Run(50)
---------------------------------------------


Tricks of the Trade:

Some common sense stuff, some personal opinion:

* Rage will give you a 10 second period where you can't attack and it will drain some endurance.
* Invincibility and Rage boost accuracy enough that you don't need to slot your attacks for accuracy, until you get those powers, however, you will need it.
* At least one endurance reduction in each toggle and one in every attack you use regularly will help endurance issues, even with Stamina.
* Many tankers feel that the taunt aura of Invincibility, plus Gauntlet, is more than sufficient for aggro management. Others feel the Taunt power is a must-have. If you want Taunt, I reccomend taking it at 24, in place of RPD. If you want it earlier, take Air Superiority at 6, Taunt at 8, and Haymaker at 24 (and drop RPD).


Toggle Powers to Keep Active:
Unyeilding
Invincibility
Temporary Invulnerability


Hard Numbers

Here's some percentages and values for you to keep in mind. These values use +2 SO enhancers, and assume you're running the toggles listed just above.

Endurance Recovery Rate: 2.49 end/sec
Endurance Loss Rate: 0.53 end/sec
Net Endurance Recovery Rate: 1.95 end/sec

Defense:
Invincibility: 7.85% + 2.35% per mob in melee range (to a cap of 10 mobs) to L/S/F/C/E/NE
Tough Hide: 7.85 to L/S/F/C/E/NE
Unyielding: -5%
Average: 13% for one mob, to 36.5% for ten.

Resistances:
Lethal/Smashing: 62.7%
Energy/Elemental: 27.5%
Toxic: 27.5%
Psionics: 0%
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The Poor Man's Guide to Invulnerability/Super Strength

Ok wanted to throw this in for those curious seekers who are new to tanks and needed a guide to know what powers do and what they should do!

Invulnerability
Resist Physical Damage
Havok Happy Index:
Description: An inherent power, this power increases Smashing/Lethal Resistances by 7.5% for tanks. If you're relying on solely your Primary for defense and resistance, than RPD and the other two passives, Resist Energeries, and Resist Elements, are must-haves. If you're looking at pool powers like Fighting or Medicine, than the passives are powers you can sacrifice.

Temporary Invulnerability
Activation: 0.67
Endurance: 0.26 End/Sec
Recharge: 2.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: The first 'core' power for Invulnerability tanks, this ability adds a base of 30% to your resistances. Standard slotting is three Resistance and one Endurance Reduction.

Dull Pain
Activation: 0.73
Endurance: 10.40
Duration: 120
Recharge: 360
Havok Happy Index:
Description: It increases your max health by 40% and acts like a decent heal. Slot it early with recharges, and prior to level 10 this power can partly negate the need to run TI full time.

Resist Elements
Havok Happy Index:
Description: An inherent power that no build can go without. It adds a base of 7.5% Resistance to Fire/Cold/Toxic.

Unyeilding
Activation: 2.33
Endurance: 0.26 End/Sec
Recharge: 10.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Can you say the power of the gods! Well, demi-gods, pergaps. It is one of the three 'core' powers for Invul tankers. It grants you 10% RES to everything but Psi (only 5% to S/L) plus Mez resistance to everything but Fear. The kicker is a 5% defense debuff. In the early levels, you'll be careful to use it only versus mobs with mezzing powers. After you pick up Invincibility, however, you'll feel better about running it full time.

Resist Energies
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Another inherent power that no build can go without. It adds a base of 7.5% Resistance to Energy/Negative Energy.


Invincibility
Activation: 3.0
Endurance: 0.21 End/Sec
Recharge: 10.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: The last 'core' power for Invulnerability Tankers. It's been nerfed before, and it's been nerfed again, but it's still awsome. Invincibility gives you a base 5% defence to smashing, lethal, fire, cold, energy and negative energy in melee range. It also gives you another 1.5% for each foe in melee range (same damage types). Against a single foe, it's a modest 6.5%...but up to the cap of 10 foes, that's 20% of defense, baby! It does cap out (10 mob max) and it's useless against Psi based opponents. But it adds an ACC boost of 3% per foe in melee range. Plus, it stacks with Tough for foes in melee range.

Tough Hide
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power adds 5% DEF to all but Psi. It's an inherent power which is nice, but many feel the coverage fron Invincibility is adequate. Others feel it's a nice END-free counter to the -5% defense in Unyielding. Taking this power does give you the freedom to run Unyielding and Invincibility on a situational basis, without fear. Plus, the 5% defense is a bigger kick than the 7.5% resistance passives, so I recommend it.

Unstoppable
Activation: 3.1
Endurance: 2.6
Duration: 180
Recharge 1,000.00 sec
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Ok get ready for a wild ride!!! This power is the craziest power you'll encounter. I love it and hate it. Why? For a 3 minute period you are a god. Your endurance recovery rate is through the roof, you are almost impossible to Mez (you are still vulnerable to Fear), and your RES rates become retarded (70% to all but Psionics). Pity the fool who can't survive 3 minutes of your pounding! Then there is the downside. After those 3 minutes the wild ride ends with you having 0 endurance and 10% of your max health. OUCH!!! Now if you can handle that this power is awsome.

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Super Strength
Note: Remember all powers listed in here have a PBAoE Taunt component, a.k.a. Gauntlet.

Jab
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.07
Endurance: 3.536
Recharge: 2.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 1.8889
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Tag this on the bottom of your attack chain in PVE combat, just for the mild disorient effect it has on minions. In PVP, replace it with Brawl. For heaven's sakes, don't bother slotting it.

Punch
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.2
Endurance: 7.5
Recharge: 4.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 2.7778
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A decent punch attack complete with knockdown. In the lower levels, slot accuracy first, and at least one endurance reduction second. Standard SO slotting at later levels is 3 Damage, 1 Endurance (accuracy handled by Invinc/Rage).

Taunt
Accuracy: 80%
Activation: 2.2
Recharge: 10.0
Range: 70
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A decent aggro control tool that auto-hits 5 foes, at range. When you're in the thick of it, Gauntlet and Invincibility will handle most all of your aggro needs, but nothing grabs foe's attention at a distance like Taunt. It is not a required power for a team tank, but it can be the power for anyone who wants to be the Rock that teams are built upon. optional

Haymaker
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.5
Endurance: 8.53
Recharge: 8.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 4.5556
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Another good solid power with a Knockdown component. Slow to recharge, and heavy on endurance...so in early levels, slot accuracy and endurance first. SO slotting is 3-DMG, 1-2 END, 1-2 Recharge (your choice).

Hand Clap
Accuracy: 55%
Activation: 1.23
Endurance: 13.0
Recharge: 30.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: I don't hate this power I just don't personally find it the best usage of a Tankers endurance or attack cycles. I think you'll get better usage out of Footstomp, but if you want it take it. It does no damage, does knockdown, and has a chance to disorient so it can make a decient combination with some Controller powersets.

Knockout Blow
Accuracy: 95%
Activation: 2.23
Endurance: 18.51
Recharge: 25.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 9.8889
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Ok this power rocks and is what restored my faith in the Super Strength set. Up till I2 when they fixed this power Super Strength was more like Pooper Strength. Then they fixed Knockout Blow. Take this power. It does awsome damage, knockdown, and a strong chance to disorient. It doesn't get any better. SO Slotting is 3-DMG, 1-2 END, 1-2 Recharge.

Rage
Activation: 1.17
Endurance: 5.2
Duration: 120
Recharge: 240
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Rage, rage against the dying of the light...This power rocks hardcore. It's 80% Damage Enhancement and 20% ACC boost. It lasts for 2 minutes but when it drops you are unable to attack for 10 seconds (you can only use powers which affect yourself). You will also face a nasty end drop, so watch your toggles and have a blue or two ready. Three SO recharges make this a perma-power, and I highly recommend this. Just remember to inform your teams before combat if you use it continuously, so they'll know why you spend 10 seconds every couple of minutes contemplating your navel.

Hurl
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 3.83
Endurance: 9.36
Recharge: 8.0
Range: 80
Brawl Index: 4.5554
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A solid power that is ranged, has a knockdown component, and can take a flying PC out of the air in PvP. The downside is a horribly long activation time. The upside is, it looks really cool!

Foot Stomp
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 2.1
Endurance: 18.51
Recharge: 20
Brawl Index: 3.94444
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Solid AoE damage, with Knockdown. An awecome, must-have power for SS tankers, second only to Knockout Blow. Focus on that EB/AV in a fight, throw this in every time it recharges, and by the time you're done with that boss, hey look! The minions are dead too! SO Slotting is...aw, you know the drill.

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Flight/Speed/Fitness/Energy Mastery

I'd be remiss if I recommended powers from these sets and didn't tell you what they gave!

Flight
Hover
Activation: 1
Endurance: 0.2 End/Sec
Recharge: 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Prior to ED,6 slotted hover was as fast as 1 slotted Flight with far cheaper endurance cost. It gives you 5% defence to everything, and has pretty low end costs now...but I still wouldn't take it.

Air Superiority
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.5
Endurance: 6.5
Recharge: 4.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 2.7778
Havok Happy Index:
Description: The best non-epic power pool attack IMHO. It's pretty awsome. It's fast, does decent damage, does knock up, and has a change to knock fliers out of the air. That's fun!

Fly
Activation: 1
Endurance: 1.0 End/Seec
Recharge: 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power has changed massively. It no longer has the ACC debuff instead it gets supressed to the speed of Hover when you use an attack with it up. With a recent reduction in end costs for the flight pool, it's now better than slotting up hover...just don't use it in combat.

Group Fly
Activation: 2.03
Endurance: 2.0 End/Sec
Recharge: 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Don't like this power either. It grants you and your closest friends (i.e. those who are hugging you at the time) flight. So long as you have endurance and they stay close to you they will remain flying.


Speed
Flurry
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 3.07
Endurance: 5.5
Recharge: 3.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 3.176
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power does ok damage and has a decent chance to disorient. It's coolest aspect is also it's downfall. It has a neet animation that fits its description but the animation is long which hurts it in a solid damage string. I don't recommend this power unless you are building a concept characer. More then likely you'll find you have access to a power that makes a better damage string then this power.

Hasten
Activation: 0.73
Endurance: 20.0
Duration: 120
Recharge: 450
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Possibly one of the 2 most powerful Power Pool abilities in the game this ability significantly ups the recharge rate of all your powers (acts as a 70% Recharge Reducer). At the end of it's duration it does drain a pretty chunk of endurance though so watch those toggle drops! Take it late in the game with Conserve Power, and it's a great equalizer with Sappers and in EB/AV battles.

Super Speed
Activation: 1
Endurance: 0.4 End/Sec
Recharge: 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: An awesome travel power, this ability adds a nice stealth component along with giving you one of the fastest travel powers in the game. As nice as it is it does lack a vertical component which hurts.

Whirlwind
Activation: 1.17
Endurance: 1.0 End/Sec
Recharge: 20.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Previously the most underrated power in the game, a recent change casts it's usefulness in doubt. When active, you spin like a cuisinart and every foe around you goes flying from knockback. It's endurance heavy, and since it was change from knockup to knockback, it's utility for INV tankers is questionable.


Fitness
Swift
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A simple base power that increases running speed. Its inherent and really is just a power to get you to Stamina.

Hurdle
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Another possible stepping stone on the way to Stamina. It gives you a better vertical on Super Speed so I usually take this power with Super Speed however with this build I chose to take Swift since I already have flight.

Health
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power acts like a 40% enhancer to your heal rate, plus grants resistance to Sleep. A highly underrated power for Tankers, who have the highest HP of anyone in the game. Take it, 3-slot for heals.

Stamina
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Geko once called this power the most powerful power in the game and frankly I agree. It is an inherent that increases your Endurance regen rate by 0.42 End/Sec.

Energy Mastery
Conserve Power
Activation: 1.17
Endurance: 9..75
Duration: 90
Recharge: 600.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Got to love this power. While you can't make it perma the endurance cost of all your powers are cut drastically across the board by 50%. Excellent anti-Sapper protection.

Focused Accuracy
Activation: 1.17
Endurance: 0.6 End/Sec
Recharge: 10.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power is pretty awsome if you can afford the endurance cost. It adds 18.5% directly to your ACC, plus Perception (useful in PVP against Stealth powers).

Laser Beam Eyes
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.67
Endurance: 6.5
Recharge: 6.0
Range: 40
Brawl Index: 2.7778
Havok Happy Index:
Description: What's Superman without Heat Vision? A solid ranged attack that provides a Defense Debuff.

Energy Torrent
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.07
Endurance: 14.82
Recharge: 24
Range: 30
Brawl Index: 2.6667
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A short, cone shaped ranged attack. I believe the arc is 120ø I believe. Damage is a little below Punch, and it includes a knockback component. It's a solid choice for you soloers who need some AoE damage.

Hmmm, lesse. I remember...

The first time I got Knockout Blow. Here's the windup and the pitch....he's outta here!

Being level 4, standing at a Freedom Corps agent inside City Hall, when some lvl 50 scrapper does a run by and drops a lvl 47 SO in my lap. I was going back and forth from shop window to enhancement menu, so I barely even saw him. I carried that around for at least 5 levels before selling it.

Getting Hover and slooooowly going up to sit on the shoulders of M1.

Cutting through a tunnel in Steel Canyon to have a couple of Outcast LTs tag team mud pots on me. My first chain-mez-death.

My first AV...my tank survived two team wipes, and kept going while my team would rebuild themselves. The Blaster kept spamming me with teleport requests, and I'd keep declining. "Just come on back when you're ready." Mind you, I couldn't even dent the AV on my own...it was a complete draw.

Babbage, Winter Lords, and other giant beasties. I'd think we need more giant monsters scaled down for lower levels, like Atlas and Galaxy.

The Rularuu invasion. "Oh God, more giant eyeballs! Run!"

I just had an odd thought to circumvent the datamining process*. Could an NPC be set up to check these things on an individual basis? For example, returning to the original TF contact to get one's badge? It occurs to me, I'm not even sure if those NPCs acknowledge I've completed a TF or not. Can one redo a TF as often as one wishes?

Anyway, I was just thinking that since the datamining of the entire player base would take so long, perhaps letting those players who desire it, come "pick it up at the office", as it were, could make the process feasible. Obviously, only so many people could tax the system at any one time.


Your helpful Hero14

*I know, we're all doing it. I hope it's not overwhelming, and even possibly useful.

OK, after Capn_Canadian pointed out my superior math skills I tossed the build and started from scratch. Back to my current build order, with modifications. So, here's attempt #2. This time, hoping the math holds (I double checked my I5 values), my S/L resistance is up to 95.2% (capped to 90), energy/elements is 33%, and toxic holds on at 10%. Gods, I'm going to hate zombie vomit now. Defenses is a more modest 34%. I'm torn...I could boost that by moving slots from TH or Manuevers to Invinc, but that requires mobs in range. Havoc's spreadsheet is assuming 3 mobs right now. I don't want to have to keep herds of mob-cattle around me at all times, so I've leaned a bit more on TH. Y'all think that's OK? Should I move 'em back to Invinc? At 3 mobs, moving two slots would boost my defense up to 37%..but as the number of mobs goes up, so would that defense, and faster than what I have down now. Ah...numbers, numbers. I'm just not the number cruncher Havoc is.

Oh, and I put Resist Energy and Resist Elements back in. Unslotted, because at their low numbers it isn't really worth it, but the base 7.5 goes up to 9ish with a +3SO, so that's definitly nothing to sneeze at.

Hero14

Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Support : Super Strength

01 : Jab dam(01) dam(5) dam(36) dam(42)
01 : Temp Invulnerability damres(01) damres(3) damres(3) damres(11) damres(15) damres(36)
02 : Punch dam(02) dam(5) dam(34) dam(42)
04 : Dull Pain recred(04) recred(7) recred(7)
06 : Resist Elements damres(06)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(15) damres(36)
10 : Haymaker endred(10) dam(13) dam(17) dam(34) dam(42) dam(50)
12 : Hover fltspd(12) fltspd(13) fltspd(17) fltspd(40) fltspd(40) fltspd(40)
14 : Hurdle jmp(14)
16 : Health hel(16)
18 : Invincibility defbuf(18) defbuf(19) defbuf(19)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21) endrec(23) endrec(23) endrec(25)
22 : Resist Energies damres(22)
24 : Knockout Blow endred(24) dam(25) dam(34) dam(43) dam(43) dam(50)
26 : Tough Hide defbuf(26) defbuf(27) defbuf(27) defbuf(37) defbuf(37)
28 : Rage recred(28) recred(29) recred(29)
30 : Hasten recred(30) recred(31) recred(31) recred(31) recred(33) recred(33)
32 : Super Speed runspd(32) runspd(33)
35 : Maneuvers endred(35) defbuf(37) defbuf(46)
38 : Foot Stomp endred(38) dam(39) dam(39) dam(39) dam(43) dam(50)
41 : Assault endred(41)
44 : Conserve Power recred(44) recred(45) recred(45) recred(45) recred(46) recred(46)
47 : Laser Beam Eyes dam(47) dam(48) dam(48) dam(48)
49 : Unstoppable recred(49)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl dam(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

[ QUOTE ]
Greetings all!

I'm new around here, and decided to use this build as a tutorial to the game to help me learn the ropes of grouping, how various game mechanics work, etc. etc.

I've read most of this thread, and have one simple question: Is this Build still viable after I5? I don't really care about it being optimized as I am just learning, but is it still all-around playable?

Thanks in advance,

-Insectar-

[/ QUOTE ]

Havoc's original build ought to still be playable. It's always been well rounded, and will continue to work in I5 so long as you're willing to accept the Developer's revised ideas of how to play a tanker. Many of us feel that vision is too limiting, and we want to hold on to the variety we had before, so we're proposing new builds to try and regain a sense of what we had before.

Yup, yup. I'm using one of Havok's Ultimates Spreadsheets to calculate my values, based on my planned slotting using +2 SOs (which, I'm a thinking, is the same as an SO++). However, on double checking I did notice my value for Unyielding was off (20% instead of 10%), so I've corrected it. I've been combing the forums, using the values I find. BuffyASummer's notes are the best I've seen.

Anyhoo, my corrected numbers are 60% S/L, 23% Energies and Elements, and 10% toxic. Yikes. I might need to move some slots into TI to balance things. Thing is, I know I can't do anything for the RxD's...I just can't spare the slots. But if nothing else, S/L needs to be as high as possible.

Thanks for catching that.

So, I've whipped up a new build for I5 now. My previous build only used Flight and Fitness, and now I'm adding Leadership and Superspeed. I've also dropped "Resist x Damage" powers entirely from this build...I just don't see the cost-effectiveness anymore. Instead, I've...hold yourselves...picked up Tough Hide and Manuvers instead. With those, and Invince slotted for defense buffing, my defense ought to be around 42% with +2 SOs. My S/L resistance is NOT maxed here, but really only one slot from it. I could move a slot into TI to fix this, but again, not feeling inclined. With the changes in I5, I'm betting more on defense to help me out. So, my S/L resistance is around 82%, elemental/enegry at 46%, and toxic at 20%.

This build has maxed out attacks (save for LBE), boosted by perma-rage, Tactics and Assault. Health is unslotted, but I do have perma-dull pain going on with Hasten. And that is the other side of this build, strong attacks with Hasten mean I'll be trying to end a fight as fast as possible. Solo, I'll probably only run Manuvers for defense, but in groups I can slow down my attacks and boost others with Tactics and Assault. Yes, my defense slots went into Tough Hide instead of Manuevers, because Manuevers can be turned off. TH is always with me. I can't buff my friends if I'm down.

Other extra notes: six-slotted Hover instead of Flight this time, for the def bonus and because I'm learning how evil supression really is. Esp with toggles. I envy Kimmie's use of TP Foe for PvP battles, but I don't PvP much...heck, I don't even keep Brawl in my attack chain. I did find supression is a killer in PvP, more so than PvE.

Any thoughts or comments, I encourage them. I'm trying to achieve a balanced solo/team build here, without gimping myself (I5 has done enough damage).

Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Support : Super Strength

01 : Jab dam(01)
01 : Temp Invulnerability damres(01)
02 : Punch dam(02) dam(3) dam(3) dam(34) dam(40) dam(45)
04 : Dull Pain recred(04) recred(5) recred(5) recred(34)
06 : Air Superiority dam(06) dam(7) dam(7) dam(33) dam(37) dam(45)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(11) damres(13)
10 : Swift runspd(10)
12 : Haymaker dam(12) dam(13) dam(17) dam(33) dam(37) dam(43)
14 : Hover fltspd(14) fltspd(15) fltspd(15) fltspd(17) fltspd(34) fltspd(40)
16 : Health hel(16)
18 : Invincibility defbuf(18) defbuf(19) defbuf(19) defbuf(36)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21) endrec(23) endrec(23) endrec(25)
22 : Knockout Blow dam(22) dam(25) dam(29) dam(33) dam(37) dam(43)
24 : Hasten recred(24) recred(27) recred(27) recred(31) recred(31) recred(31)
26 : Maneuvers endred(26) defbuf(50)
28 : Rage recred(28) recred(29)
30 : Tough Hide defbuf(30) defbuf(36) defbuf(36) defbuf(46) defbuf(48) defbuf(50)
32 : Tactics endred(32) thtbuf(50)
35 : Super Speed runspd(35)
38 : Foot Stomp dam(38) dam(39) dam(39) dam(39) dam(40) dam(43)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(42) recred(46) recred(46)
44 : Laser Beam Eyes dam(44) dam(45) dam(48) dam(48)
47 : Assault endred(47)
49 : Unstoppable recred(49)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl dam(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

Unless they tweak numbers further, you might consider (and try it on Test to see if you like it) taking slots away from Resist Elements/Energies. Some are saying they're skipping those powers altogether, but I'm still on the fence about it. Regardless, as low as those are right now, slotting isn't going improve them much. Instead, pour these into attacks elsewhere, or pool powers which provide def/res boosts.

Now, I can see some spots those slots could go. But if you wanted truly wild, you could consider slotting up Swift. Odd, I know, but I read somewhere that fully slotted Swift is near to the same speed as unslotted Superspeed. Without the supression. I haven't experimented with this, but would like to, sometime.

Anyway, right now you're looking at 22.8% defense to everything except toxic and psionics, 90% resistance to S/L, and 60% to E/N/F/C, and 20% toxic. That's using Havok's spreadsheets of DOOOOOOOM! and adjusted numbers. Dropping the extra slots from resistance to energies and elements only drops that 60% to 56%. Dropping those powers entirely drops it to 47% (it's 7.5% with one +3 SO). So, I don't think it'd hurt not to slot them, but it is significant just to have the power.

In balance, Weave might wind up being an Inv tankers friend. Leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, but it'd be a massive boost to our defense would reduce minions to the base 5%. I hear it's also heavy in End cost. Maneuvers would not do as well, but probably be more cost effective.

Anyhoo...that's some thoughts off the top of my head. I'm looking over my build now, and ought to have something up here soon.

[ QUOTE ]
Two quick questions then...

One, I've been experimenting a little on Test in my copoius spare time (read, nil) and really I'm not seeing much that I can work with. Has anyone found any alternatives that might help mitigate some of the drops in resistance? Any of the Power Pools might have something to help that I'm not seeing? I'm just looking for things I might be able to do to help keep some version of this build workable.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's two philosophies floating about that I can see. Method one is to focus on maxing out Smashing/Lethal damage using Temporary Invulnerability, and Unyielding. Toss in Invinc for the accuracy and defense bonus, but ignore the passive powers and put everything else into offense. The idea is, protect yourself against the most common damage type (S/L) and then build for maximum damage output. I suspect this is the direction Havok might have gone.

The other philosophy I've seen for I5, is to look into pool powers to amp up defense instead. Myself, I'm going to look at a build using the leadship pool to help bolster my weakened defenses/resistances. The down side is, I'll be sacrificing attacks to make it work. This second method might make a more attractive team tanker, but will severly limit soloability.

[ QUOTE ]
Two, what in the heck is DDO? Please forgive my ignorance.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online, a new mmo in beta phases. It's new, it's different (that is, not made by an existing MMO company like NCSoft or Sony OE), but for my money, once the newness wears off, folks over there will be in the same boat as here.

Sometimes I wonder, if I didn't look at the numbers, and didn't know the actual changes coming, would I notice the difference that much? But then I hear about powers with numbers like ".5%"...yes, half a percent, and I think, where is this going? I'd love to see bigger and better, not smaller and homogenized.

I'm sorry, you didn't ask for a rant. I'm just at a loss. My Inv/SS tanker is lvl 36, and if the current changes go live I just don't know what I'll do. My whole team is feeling the hurt, and is working at pulling together to buff the team. When my tanker losses effectiveness, what do I do? Boost my damage output, and I'm just a stunted Scrapper with little to contribute to survival. Boost my survival, and add some team buffing powers, and I'm as threatening as a turnip. I stand there, take damage, and buff people. Gaaah.

We all came into this game, knowing what was expected of the ATs....it was spelled out for us. We want to be front line? We could pick Blasters and Tankers. We want to be solo artists? Scrappers were there. We want affect entire mobs of baddies? Controllers stepped up. We want to work on our teammates? Defenders were there.

Now where are we? What are we doing? We have Defenders with more Controller-like powers. Controllers relearning what they're supposed to do. Blasters expected to die for their powers. And Tankers and Scrappers who can't tell each other apart.

I'm lost, folks, I'm really lost. My apologies, Tetsuhara, for derailing so badly.

[ QUOTE ]
Havok, how many slots do Rage, and Dull Pain need if you don't have hasten around? I would imagine Dull Pain needs at least 5 if not 6, and Rage might need a couple extras, but maybe not. Also, do we know if a hero can just fly using group fly alone, or must someone other than you be present? Of course you'd have to take hover (and probably 6 slot it) and Air Superiority, then I believe you'd have access to it, couldn't you just use it in place of fly and have the extra added benifit of being able to carry others if they happened to be around? Does anyone know if it works?

[/ QUOTE ]

Waaaaaaay back in here I put a non-hasten version of Havoc's build. DP needs a full 6 recharge SOs, but Rage only needs 3. I just hit 35, and this non-SuperSpeed build is still rocking! I did take AS, but Fly over Hover since I use it more for travel than combat. The few times I do use it, in fact, are for Sky Raiders or anyone who likes to hover above us. I fly up, smack 'em with AS, then drop back down with them.

As to having Group Fly in place of Fly...well, Fly's endurance drain is bad enough. GF is widely frowned upon as a power, even after a recent fix where companion's flight speed now matches your based speed. The problem is that if you enhance your flight speed (as one is want to do, because flight is slooooow), your speed improves but your friends are stuck as base speed. So, I've heard GF described as drunk pigeons...people keep falling out of the sky randomly. Either your friends drop too far back, or you run out of end. Either way, unpleasant.

[ QUOTE ]
-Hero14

Thanks for throwing in the info Hero. There are always those who don't like Superspeed and it's good to get folks with differing builds sharing them with the community

[/ QUOTE ]

But..but..I need validation!!!

Acutally, I didn't mean to seem so random. I put my build up here to answer hyperstar's question of how to get flight earlier. I still have Taunt much later, but waaaaaaay up in this thread Mr. Havoc mentions you might swap Taunt and Dull Pain where they are (in his build) if you choose not to take hasten. Now, I rebuilt at 32, so I'd disagree with this. I might be slower on the attack string without hasten, but I seem to draw enough aggro from my toggles and punchvoke regardless. So, I really like DP right where it is. I rarely use Taunt, and when I want to it's that 10 second downtime from Rage where I can do anything, including Taunt!

Oh, and I realize Superman has exhibited Superspeed in many media...I don't dispute it, or the benefits it could bring to a build. My reason for removing it was just to make a stronger character. I realized, reading Havoc's guide and playing with the character builder progy, that four power pools and an epic pool are a trap! If you need to take multiple powers from all five options, your AT has some serious flaws. As I said, I can't fault Stamina....looooove stamina. Heard people mutter it ought to be an inheirent power like Rest. Me, I think end costs need to be adjust so it's not necessary at all. Or, to look at it another way, Pandora's out...so long as it's available, people will take it for the edge.

OK, got off track...power pools! A power here, a power there, not a big deal. But I was going down a path of taking two or more powers from as many pools as I could and realized, I'd be missing out on the real strengths of my AT. So I scaled waaaaay back. I had superspeed and hasten for a bit...and as soon as I did, stopped flying almost entirely. SS is just way too good a travel power. So, I guess I'm saying, one travel power is all you'll ever really need. If I hadn't elected flight, I'd have gone SS and slotted Hurdle up by bunches (and still stayed out of Faultline ).

For a Superman build, you need to fly. For effectiveness, speed is hard to beat. Havoc has the best way I can imagine to combine the two. I decided to sacrifice a little effectiveness for...I dunno...fun? 'Cause that's what it's all about. Find what's fun and go with it..

I'm going to be bold and brash and throw my build in here. I'd had it up in a seperate thread, where ImmortalNite told me I wasn't completly insane. Or, he's just really polite. Regardless, this build is a modification of Havoc's S3 build with SuperSpeed removed. Why, you ask? I dunno...before I found Havoc's guide, I was the Inv/SS tanker on his way to three different travel powers. After reading this guide and the good info herein, I decided to economize on the external AT powers as much as I could. Havoc's build focuses more on the speed aspect, mine on flight.

The differences in my build:<ul type="square">[*]I pick up Resist Elements sooner. Nice for all those Outcasts in Steel Canyon who like setting you on fire. [*]Extra attack sooner: Air Superiority.[*]Without Hasten, six-slot Dull Pain to achieve Perma-[*]Rage hits Perma- with just three slots.[*]Added some endurance reducers to some of the bigger attack powers. Even with fully slotted Stamina, this build is still an End hog, and I don't want to be dropped just because Rage runs out.[*]More out of the Energy Mastery pool, incl. Focused Acc and Energy Torrent. This is optional.[/list]
So, here's my build, I still would love to hear comments. When you read enough of these guides, there's certain powers that stick out as almost "Mandatory". Stamina is one I just can't argue with, but sometimes I hate being saddled with Hasten to boot. So, I tried this build to be Hasten-less. It may suffer in the DPS department, but it's still solid where I'm at (lvl 33), and like Havoc's build, ought to work well at any level.

Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Support : Super Strength

01 : Jab dam(01)
01 : Temp Invulnerability damres(01)
02 : Punch dam(02) dam(3) dam(3) dam(7) dam(40) dam(42)
04 : Dull Pain recred(04) recred(5) recred(5) recred(7) recred(21) recred(31)
06 : Resist Elements damres(06) damres(34) damres(34) damres(34)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(13) damres(13) damres(15)
10 : Haymaker dam(10) dam(11) dam(11) dam(19) dam(36) endred(37)
12 : Air Superiority dam(12) dam(15) dam(17) dam(19) dam(36) dam(37)
14 : Fly endred(14) fltspd(17) fltspd(46) fltspd(50)
16 : Swift (Or Hurdle) runspd(16)
18 : Invincibility thtbuf(18) thtbuf(21)
20 : Health hel(20)
22 : Stamina endrec(22) endrec(23) endrec(23) endrec(27) endrec(27) endrec(29)
24 : Knockout Blow recred(24) dam(25) dam(25) dam(29) dam(36) endred(37)
26 : Resist Energies damres(26) damres(33) damres(33) damres(33) damres(45) damres(45)
28 : Rage recred(28) recred(31) recred(31)
30 : Taunt tntdur(30)
32 : Unstoppable damres(32)
35 : Resist Physical Damage damres(35)
38 : Foot Stomp recred(38) dam(39) dam(39) dam(39) dam(40) endred(40)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Laser Beam Eyes dam(44) dam(45) dam(46) dam(46) dam(50)
47 : Energy Torrent dam(47) dam(48) dam(48) dam(48)
49 : Focused Accuracy thtbuf(49) thtbuf(50)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl dam(01)
01 : Sprint jmp(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

[ QUOTE ]
Back again...

R0cktart joined Rangus in his quest:

[ QUOTE ]
I think I know who you are, 1st initial S?

[/ QUOTE ]
No

B

[/ QUOTE ]


Really? Hmmmm.

I'm logging my guesstimate for later this month, or early next. And, I have reasoning!

Everytime I come here, I always check the Dev's Digest first. There's been a hughe dearth of Dev postings up until this week. Now, Statesman and friends are everywhere! Why? I'm guessing the big coding crunch is over, and the update is currently in QA. This gives Devs a chance to relax, catch up on the forums, etc. Once QA has finished picking it over, you'll see it on the test servers.

I recall a similar situation prior to update #2. Let's see what happens.

Hero14