Superman Returns (Superman 4.0) [I8]


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

Superman Returns (Superman v4.0) [I8]

It's been a long time since Havoc's Superman guide hit the boards, but it's helped many an INV/SS tanker out along the way. I know it's been a huge influence on myself, and by way of thanks I've decided to revive and revise the ol' Superman guide for I7. An important thing to note: there's been many changes since the last guide, powers adjustments, enhancement diversification, the global defense reduction are just the biggies. Tanks, especially INV/SS Tanks, are not what they used to be. Many will tell you it's not possible to play a "Superman"-like build in this game any more. So, let me tell you what this build is not.

This build is not:<ul type="square">
[*] The maximum ammount of defense possible.
[*] Optimized for PVP.[/list]
Not a huge list, but those two items are vitally important to some. I'm happy with my build as it is, knowing it's not the strongest out there. It is very playable, and a very good build for the concept character. I also hope this guide will help give anyone who wants it a better understanding of the INV/SS sets. So now I've told you what it's not, here's what this guide is.

My goals for this build:<ul type="square">
[*] Maximize defense &amp; resists inherant to the INV primary.
[*] Maintain a solid attack string.
[*] Be good for solo play, as well as groups.
[*] Use as few power pools as possible.
[*] Include flight &amp; superspeed.[/list]Please note, this is primarily a PVE build. I don't want to exclude PVP, but I honestly don't PVP much so I can't say how this build would work.

Special Note: I've built this guide around Havoc's Supermna 3.0 guide, but everything you see here is my own opinions, Havoc had no involvement with this update. In his honor, however, I'm keeping the Havoc Happy Index (but using my own rankings, not his).

Build Strengths:

Invulnerability is a fairly well-rounded, broad spectrum defensive set. It provides excellent resistance to smashing/lethal attacks (the most common damage type in the game), and moderate resistance to energies,elements and toxic. It provides no psionic resistance whatsoever - but it does provide good protection to all forms of mez effects.

In companion to this, Super Strength helps maintain survivability through knockdown effects on most attacks. Keeping your enemy off his feat means you're throwing more punches then they are. Add to this Rage which, with just 3 SOs for recharge, boosts your damage and accuracy to scranker levels. Alas, it's not all roses and kittens...


Build Weaknesses:

It's simple you have 2 weakness:<ul type="square">[*] Psionics (we all know this)[*] Toggle Dropping[/list]While Enhancement Diversification may have taken the edge of some powers, the extra slots allow us to accomadate endurance needs better than before. Even so, a prolonged battle will eat away at your End bar, and the endurance loss when Rage drops can be the nail in your coffin. Factor in Brawl, teh uber PVP power, and you'll learn to be protective of your toggles pretty quickly.

So what is the build?

What you see here is an end-game build, slotted as you would with Single Origin enhancements towards the late stages of the game. I wouldn't recommend slotting in this exact order. In other words, take the slots at the levels indicated, but pick enhancements to meet the needs of your level.

Notes on individual powers are in the section beyond this, but basically...you find you need Accuracy and Endurance Reduction enhancements in all your attacks at the early stages. In the Dual Origin range, you might even want 2 Endurance Reduction on the more costly powers until you reach Stamina at 20. By the time you reach Invincibility at level 18, you can start replacing the Accuracy enhancements with Damage. I feel between Rage and Invincibility you won't need Accuracy enhancements at all past level 30...but you'll always need Endurance Reduction in just about every power which uses Endurance.

[/b]Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength

01) --&gt; Temp Invulnerability==&gt; DmgRes(1)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(3)EndRdx(11)
01) --&gt; Jab==&gt; Dmg(1)
02) --&gt; Punch==&gt; EndRdx(2)Dmg(7)Dmg(34)Dmg(37)Rechg(46)
04) --&gt; Dull Pain==&gt; Rechg(4)Rechg(5)Rechg(5)Heal(45)Heal(46)Heal(46)
06) --&gt; Haymaker==&gt; EndRdx(6)Dmg(7)Dmg(13)Dmg(37)Rechg(40)Rechg(43)
08) --&gt; Unyielding==&gt; DmgRes(8)DmgRes(9)DmgRes(9)EndRdx(11)
10) --&gt; Air Superiority==&gt; EndRdx(10)Dmg(13)Dmg(34)Dmg(37)
12) --&gt; Swift==&gt; Run(12)
14) --&gt; Fly==&gt; Fly(14)Fly(15)Fly(15)
16) --&gt; Health==&gt; Heal(16)Heal(17)Heal(17)
18) --&gt; Invincibility==&gt; DefBuf(18)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(19)EndRdx(23)TH_Buf(31)TH_Buf(33)
20) --&gt; Stamina==&gt; EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --&gt; Knockout Blow==&gt; EndRdx(22)Dmg(23)Dmg(34)Dmg(36)Rechg(40)Rechg(43)
24) --&gt; Resist Physical Damage==&gt; DmgRes(24)DmgRes(25)DmgRes(25)
26) --&gt; Tough Hide==&gt; DefBuf(26)DefBuf(27)DefBuf(27)
28) --&gt; Rage==&gt; Rechg(28)Rechg(29)Rechg(29)TH_Buf(33)TH_Buf(33)TH_Buf(42)
30) --&gt; Resist Elements==&gt; DmgRes(30)DmgRes(31)DmgRes(31)
32) --&gt; Unstoppable==&gt; Rechg(32)
35) --&gt; Resist Energies==&gt; DmgRes(35)DmgRes(36)DmgRes(36)
38) --&gt; Foot Stomp==&gt; EndRdx(38)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Rechg(40)Rechg(43)
41) --&gt; Conserve Power==&gt; Rechg(41)Rechg(42)Rechg(42)
44) --&gt; Hasten==&gt; Rechg(44)Rechg(45)Rechg(45)
47) --&gt; Laser Beam Eyes==&gt; EndRdx(47)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Rechg(50)
49) --&gt; Super Speed==&gt; Run(49)Run(50)Run(50)
---------------------------------------------


Tricks of the Trade:

Some common sense stuff, some personal opinion:

* Rage will give you a 10 second period where you can't attack and it will drain some endurance.
* Invincibility and Rage boost accuracy enough that you don't need to slot your attacks for accuracy, until you get those powers, however, you will need it.
* At least one endurance reduction in each toggle and one in every attack you use regularly will help endurance issues, even with Stamina.
* Many tankers feel that the taunt aura of Invincibility, plus Gauntlet, is more than sufficient for aggro management. Others feel the Taunt power is a must-have. If you want Taunt, I reccomend taking it at 24, in place of RPD. If you want it earlier, take Air Superiority at 6, Taunt at 8, and Haymaker at 24 (and drop RPD).


Toggle Powers to Keep Active:
Unyeilding
Invincibility
Temporary Invulnerability


Hard Numbers

Here's some percentages and values for you to keep in mind. These values use +2 SO enhancers, and assume you're running the toggles listed just above.

Endurance Recovery Rate: 2.49 end/sec
Endurance Loss Rate: 0.53 end/sec
Net Endurance Recovery Rate: 1.95 end/sec

Defense:
Invincibility: 7.85% + 2.35% per mob in melee range (to a cap of 10 mobs) to L/S/F/C/E/NE
Tough Hide: 7.85 to L/S/F/C/E/NE
Unyielding: -5%
Average: 13% for one mob, to 36.5% for ten.

Resistances:
Lethal/Smashing: 62.7%
Energy/Elemental: 27.5%
Toxic: 27.5%
Psionics: 0%
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The Poor Man's Guide to Invulnerability/Super Strength

Ok wanted to throw this in for those curious seekers who are new to tanks and needed a guide to know what powers do and what they should do!

Invulnerability
Resist Physical Damage
Havok Happy Index:
Description: An inherent power, this power increases Smashing/Lethal Resistances by 7.5% for tanks. If you're relying on solely your Primary for defense and resistance, than RPD and the other two passives, Resist Energeries, and Resist Elements, are must-haves. If you're looking at pool powers like Fighting or Medicine, than the passives are powers you can sacrifice.

Temporary Invulnerability
Activation: 0.67
Endurance: 0.26 End/Sec
Recharge: 2.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: The first 'core' power for Invulnerability tanks, this ability adds a base of 30% to your resistances. Standard slotting is three Resistance and one Endurance Reduction.

Dull Pain
Activation: 0.73
Endurance: 10.40
Duration: 120
Recharge: 360
Havok Happy Index:
Description: It increases your max health by 40% and acts like a decent heal. Slot it early with recharges, and prior to level 10 this power can partly negate the need to run TI full time.

Resist Elements
Havok Happy Index:
Description: An inherent power that no build can go without. It adds a base of 7.5% Resistance to Fire/Cold/Toxic.

Unyeilding
Activation: 2.33
Endurance: 0.26 End/Sec
Recharge: 10.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Can you say the power of the gods! Well, demi-gods, pergaps. It is one of the three 'core' powers for Invul tankers. It grants you 10% RES to everything but Psi (only 5% to S/L) plus Mez resistance to everything but Fear. The kicker is a 5% defense debuff. In the early levels, you'll be careful to use it only versus mobs with mezzing powers. After you pick up Invincibility, however, you'll feel better about running it full time.

Resist Energies
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Another inherent power that no build can go without. It adds a base of 7.5% Resistance to Energy/Negative Energy.


Invincibility
Activation: 3.0
Endurance: 0.21 End/Sec
Recharge: 10.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: The last 'core' power for Invulnerability Tankers. It's been nerfed before, and it's been nerfed again, but it's still awsome. Invincibility gives you a base 5% defence to smashing, lethal, fire, cold, energy and negative energy in melee range. It also gives you another 1.5% for each foe in melee range (same damage types). Against a single foe, it's a modest 6.5%...but up to the cap of 10 foes, that's 20% of defense, baby! It does cap out (10 mob max) and it's useless against Psi based opponents. But it adds an ACC boost of 3% per foe in melee range. Plus, it stacks with Tough for foes in melee range.

Tough Hide
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power adds 5% DEF to all but Psi. It's an inherent power which is nice, but many feel the coverage fron Invincibility is adequate. Others feel it's a nice END-free counter to the -5% defense in Unyielding. Taking this power does give you the freedom to run Unyielding and Invincibility on a situational basis, without fear. Plus, the 5% defense is a bigger kick than the 7.5% resistance passives, so I recommend it.

Unstoppable
Activation: 3.1
Endurance: 2.6
Duration: 180
Recharge 1,000.00 sec
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Ok get ready for a wild ride!!! This power is the craziest power you'll encounter. I love it and hate it. Why? For a 3 minute period you are a god. Your endurance recovery rate is through the roof, you are almost impossible to Mez (you are still vulnerable to Fear), and your RES rates become retarded (70% to all but Psionics). Pity the fool who can't survive 3 minutes of your pounding! Then there is the downside. After those 3 minutes the wild ride ends with you having 0 endurance and 10% of your max health. OUCH!!! Now if you can handle that this power is awsome.

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Super Strength
Note: Remember all powers listed in here have a PBAoE Taunt component, a.k.a. Gauntlet.

Jab
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.07
Endurance: 3.536
Recharge: 2.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 1.8889
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Tag this on the bottom of your attack chain in PVE combat, just for the mild disorient effect it has on minions. In PVP, replace it with Brawl. For heaven's sakes, don't bother slotting it.

Punch
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.2
Endurance: 7.5
Recharge: 4.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 2.7778
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A decent punch attack complete with knockdown. In the lower levels, slot accuracy first, and at least one endurance reduction second. Standard SO slotting at later levels is 3 Damage, 1 Endurance (accuracy handled by Invinc/Rage).

Taunt
Accuracy: 80%
Activation: 2.2
Recharge: 10.0
Range: 70
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A decent aggro control tool that auto-hits 5 foes, at range. When you're in the thick of it, Gauntlet and Invincibility will handle most all of your aggro needs, but nothing grabs foe's attention at a distance like Taunt. It is not a required power for a team tank, but it can be the power for anyone who wants to be the Rock that teams are built upon. optional

Haymaker
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.5
Endurance: 8.53
Recharge: 8.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 4.5556
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Another good solid power with a Knockdown component. Slow to recharge, and heavy on endurance...so in early levels, slot accuracy and endurance first. SO slotting is 3-DMG, 1-2 END, 1-2 Recharge (your choice).

Hand Clap
Accuracy: 55%
Activation: 1.23
Endurance: 13.0
Recharge: 30.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: I don't hate this power I just don't personally find it the best usage of a Tankers endurance or attack cycles. I think you'll get better usage out of Footstomp, but if you want it take it. It does no damage, does knockdown, and has a chance to disorient so it can make a decient combination with some Controller powersets.

Knockout Blow
Accuracy: 95%
Activation: 2.23
Endurance: 18.51
Recharge: 25.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 9.8889
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Ok this power rocks and is what restored my faith in the Super Strength set. Up till I2 when they fixed this power Super Strength was more like Pooper Strength. Then they fixed Knockout Blow. Take this power. It does awsome damage, knockdown, and a strong chance to disorient. It doesn't get any better. SO Slotting is 3-DMG, 1-2 END, 1-2 Recharge.

Rage
Activation: 1.17
Endurance: 5.2
Duration: 120
Recharge: 240
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Rage, rage against the dying of the light...This power rocks hardcore. It's 80% Damage Enhancement and 20% ACC boost. It lasts for 2 minutes but when it drops you are unable to attack for 10 seconds (you can only use powers which affect yourself). You will also face a nasty end drop, so watch your toggles and have a blue or two ready. Three SO recharges make this a perma-power, and I highly recommend this. Just remember to inform your teams before combat if you use it continuously, so they'll know why you spend 10 seconds every couple of minutes contemplating your navel.

Hurl
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 3.83
Endurance: 9.36
Recharge: 8.0
Range: 80
Brawl Index: 4.5554
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A solid power that is ranged, has a knockdown component, and can take a flying PC out of the air in PvP. The downside is a horribly long activation time. The upside is, it looks really cool!

Foot Stomp
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 2.1
Endurance: 18.51
Recharge: 20
Brawl Index: 3.94444
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Solid AoE damage, with Knockdown. An awecome, must-have power for SS tankers, second only to Knockout Blow. Focus on that EB/AV in a fight, throw this in every time it recharges, and by the time you're done with that boss, hey look! The minions are dead too! SO Slotting is...aw, you know the drill.

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Flight/Speed/Fitness/Energy Mastery

I'd be remiss if I recommended powers from these sets and didn't tell you what they gave!

Flight
Hover
Activation: 1
Endurance: 0.2 End/Sec
Recharge: 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Prior to ED,6 slotted hover was as fast as 1 slotted Flight with far cheaper endurance cost. It gives you 5% defence to everything, and has pretty low end costs now...but I still wouldn't take it.

Air Superiority
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.5
Endurance: 6.5
Recharge: 4.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 2.7778
Havok Happy Index:
Description: The best non-epic power pool attack IMHO. It's pretty awsome. It's fast, does decent damage, does knock up, and has a change to knock fliers out of the air. That's fun!

Fly
Activation: 1
Endurance: 1.0 End/Seec
Recharge: 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power has changed massively. It no longer has the ACC debuff instead it gets supressed to the speed of Hover when you use an attack with it up. With a recent reduction in end costs for the flight pool, it's now better than slotting up hover...just don't use it in combat.

Group Fly
Activation: 2.03
Endurance: 2.0 End/Sec
Recharge: 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Don't like this power either. It grants you and your closest friends (i.e. those who are hugging you at the time) flight. So long as you have endurance and they stay close to you they will remain flying.


Speed
Flurry
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 3.07
Endurance: 5.5
Recharge: 3.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 3.176
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power does ok damage and has a decent chance to disorient. It's coolest aspect is also it's downfall. It has a neet animation that fits its description but the animation is long which hurts it in a solid damage string. I don't recommend this power unless you are building a concept characer. More then likely you'll find you have access to a power that makes a better damage string then this power.

Hasten
Activation: 0.73
Endurance: 20.0
Duration: 120
Recharge: 450
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Possibly one of the 2 most powerful Power Pool abilities in the game this ability significantly ups the recharge rate of all your powers (acts as a 70% Recharge Reducer). At the end of it's duration it does drain a pretty chunk of endurance though so watch those toggle drops! Take it late in the game with Conserve Power, and it's a great equalizer with Sappers and in EB/AV battles.

Super Speed
Activation: 1
Endurance: 0.4 End/Sec
Recharge: 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: An awesome travel power, this ability adds a nice stealth component along with giving you one of the fastest travel powers in the game. As nice as it is it does lack a vertical component which hurts.

Whirlwind
Activation: 1.17
Endurance: 1.0 End/Sec
Recharge: 20.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Previously the most underrated power in the game, a recent change casts it's usefulness in doubt. When active, you spin like a cuisinart and every foe around you goes flying from knockback. It's endurance heavy, and since it was change from knockup to knockback, it's utility for INV tankers is questionable.


Fitness
Swift
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A simple base power that increases running speed. Its inherent and really is just a power to get you to Stamina.

Hurdle
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Another possible stepping stone on the way to Stamina. It gives you a better vertical on Super Speed so I usually take this power with Super Speed however with this build I chose to take Swift since I already have flight.

Health
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power acts like a 40% enhancer to your heal rate, plus grants resistance to Sleep. A highly underrated power for Tankers, who have the highest HP of anyone in the game. Take it, 3-slot for heals.

Stamina
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Geko once called this power the most powerful power in the game and frankly I agree. It is an inherent that increases your Endurance regen rate by 0.42 End/Sec.

Energy Mastery
Conserve Power
Activation: 1.17
Endurance: 9..75
Duration: 90
Recharge: 600.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Got to love this power. While you can't make it perma the endurance cost of all your powers are cut drastically across the board by 50%. Excellent anti-Sapper protection.

Focused Accuracy
Activation: 1.17
Endurance: 0.6 End/Sec
Recharge: 10.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power is pretty awsome if you can afford the endurance cost. It adds 18.5% directly to your ACC, plus Perception (useful in PVP against Stealth powers).

Laser Beam Eyes
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.67
Endurance: 6.5
Recharge: 6.0
Range: 40
Brawl Index: 2.7778
Havok Happy Index:
Description: What's Superman without Heat Vision? A solid ranged attack that provides a Defense Debuff.

Energy Torrent
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1.07
Endurance: 14.82
Recharge: 24
Range: 30
Brawl Index: 2.6667
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A short, cone shaped ranged attack. I believe the arc is 120ΓΈ I believe. Damage is a little below Punch, and it includes a knockback component. It's a solid choice for you soloers who need some AoE damage.


Hero14
SS/INV Tanker on Virtue
Superman Returns (INV/SS Guide for I8)

 

Posted

I like the guide, good info here.. I do however disagree with a couple of things.. The second recharge in your attack powers will negate the endredux you have in them, not to mention Hasten. My Inv/SS uses 1 Acc, 3 Dmg, 1 End Redux, and 1 Recharge in each attack, he still sucks endo like no tomorrow without hasten. My second problem is slotting up Unyelding. As you said, it gives you a very small boost to resists, I have mine slotted with just 1 end redux, I found the returns on 3 slotting RPD much better.

Just a question here. why would you 3 slot Super Speed? Two slots maxes it from all that I understand, heck most enjoy it with just 1 slot..

Now.. Please do not take my above comments as slights against your build or your guide. As I said earlier it has alot of good info. These are just my insights from playing an Inv/SS to 50.

I do understand this is a concept build. You might want to stress that a bit more, I was very happy to see that you did say this is a high level build. You might want to add that this build should be respeced into. I had the pleasure of running with Havock and talked with him at length about his old superman build. In fact I respeced into it at one time much earlier than I should have. The superman build can be fun but not at lower levels, it just dosen't work without having enough slots..


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Just a question here. why would you 3 slot Super Speed? Two slots maxes it from all that I understand, heck most enjoy it with just 1 slot..


[/ QUOTE ]

I had the same question. Supes is plenty fast with one SS slot. I am working on mine, he is 32.


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I like the guide, good info here.. I do however disagree with a couple of things.. The second recharge in your attack powers will negate the endredux you have in them, not to mention Hasten. My Inv/SS uses 1 Acc, 3 Dmg, 1 End Redux, and 1 Recharge in each attack, he still sucks endo like no tomorrow without hasten. My second problem is slotting up Unyelding. As you said, it gives you a very small boost to resists, I have mine slotted with just 1 end redux, I found the returns on 3 slotting RPD much better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel pretty balanced on End usage. Consider that I put those extra recharges in Haymaker and Knockout Blow, the two slowest attacks in SS. As for Hasten, I picked that up after Conserve Power, and usually use those in combination. I like Hasten, but it's very situation for me...I never had back in the perma-Hasten days, so I don't try to run it that way. Anyway...Conserve Power is a key element to having Hasten in this build, I think.

For slotting Unyielding...well, my goal was to eek out every bit of utility from the core powers. Even so, I don't feel starved for the enhancement slots elsewhere. In fact...

[ QUOTE ]
Just a question here. why would you 3 slot Super Speed? Two slots maxes it from all that I understand, heck most enjoy it with just 1 slot..

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm under the impression that it takes 3 to max Super Speed, but it's been awhile since I crunched those numbers. Mostly, I dropped those slots there because I didn't have anywhere else I wanted to put them. This isn't to say you couldn't find a better place for them...you probably can. I just feel by that point, there's little difference those two slots will make.

[ QUOTE ]
I do understand this is a concept build. You might want to stress that a bit more, I was very happy to see that you did say this is a high level build. You might want to add that this build should be respeced into. I had the pleasure of running with Havock and talked with him at length about his old superman build. In fact I respeced into it at one time much earlier than I should have. The superman build can be fun but not at lower levels, it just dosen't work without having enough slots..

[/ QUOTE ]

I do try to stress this build is really post-SOs. There's more notes throughout the guide for the lower levels, but I always feel people should pick their enhancements based on their needs at the time. Early on, you really need accuracy in your attacks...then def/res becomes important...then it's endurance...then def/res...and on, and on, and on.

I'm honestly not sure how much of a respec this build should be...I'd still probably choose my slots in the same order, I'd just use different enhancements at different times. More acc and end redux early on, for example. It's hard for me to say, because I was already in the 40s by the time ED hit...I do have a new INV/SS tanker at around 8 right now, so I'll see how he fairs in his adolescence.


Hero14
SS/INV Tanker on Virtue
Superman Returns (INV/SS Guide for I8)

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I feel pretty balanced on End usage. Consider that I put those extra recharges in Haymaker and Knockout Blow, the two slowest attacks in SS. As for Hasten, I picked that up after Conserve Power, and usually use those in combination. I like Hasten, but it's very situation for me...I never had back in the perma-Hasten days, so I don't try to run it that way. Anyway...Conserve Power is a key element to having Hasten in this build, I think.

For slotting Unyielding...well, my goal was to eek out every bit of utility from the core powers. Even so, I don't feel starved for the enhancement slots elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.. My Tanker grew up in the Perma Hasten days. I tried Hasten on him once.. What a disaster that was.. LoL. My endurance bar fell so fast it was funny. I used Conserver power as well. But even with it slotted 6 Recharge and Hasten 6 slotted I was still on the dry with endo most of the time. I do understand what you are saying, it all comes down to when and how each tank was made a played that makes the difference.

I am just glad you didn't think I was slammin your work.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I am just glad you didn't think I was slammin your work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all! Discussion is good, and the more discussion, the more helpful guides like this can be.


Hero14
SS/INV Tanker on Virtue
Superman Returns (INV/SS Guide for I8)

 

Posted

Great, great guide here. You convinced me to make an INV/SS Tank. Thanks!


 

Posted

One of your stated goals was to have a tank that could team in PvE. Without Taunt, your Inv/SS tank offers nothing to a team until Invincibility at level 18 -- until then your teammates would be better off with something, anything other than a tauntless, aggro aura-less scranker.

Inv has no aggro generation until Invincibility at 18. Without Taunt at 10, SS has no group aggro generation until hand clap at 16. Your supertank has nothing except Gauntlet, which is simply insufficient at low level in large (6+ player) groups.

I strongly suggest that any new players take Taunt at level 10 and then respec out of it later if they absolutely hate it. You are doing a disservice to new players who think they can join a large low-level team and do anything resembling tanking without aggro management abilities.

I agree with the other replies regarding Hasten. It is too much of an endurance hog for any Inv/- tank I've played. And superspeed is simply redundant with Flight. You can feel sufficiently Superman-ish and skip the Speed pool, IMO, while freeing up two power choices and 4 extra slots.

The key powers (all 5 smiley faces) are Temp. Invul, Dull Pain, Unyielding, and Invincibility. They, along with Tough Hide, need to be taken and slotted ASAP.

I agree with your comments about initial attack slotting for accuracy and endurance. Many of the guides focus on damage slotting early, which is a mistake.

I would caution new players reading this guide to be careful when choosing powers that seem to save you slots in other powers, such as Hasten, Focused Accuracy, and Conserve Power. It is easy to look at these and say, "hey, I can take these powers and never have to slot recharge, accuracy, or endurance reduction!! Gimme damage!" Unfortunately, all of these powers are endurance hogs and/or are not always available. Plus, if you ever have an artificially reduced level from being an Exemplar, many of your high-end powers will be unavailable and your optimized slotting will fail you. My advice would be to take these powers as situational powers only; do not plan your build around them.


 

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One of your stated goals was to have a tank that could team in PvE. Without Taunt, your Inv/SS tank offers nothing to a team until Invincibility at level 18 -- until then your teammates would be better off with something, anything other than a tauntless, aggro aura-less scranker.

Inv has no aggro generation until Invincibility at 18. Without Taunt at 10, SS has no group aggro generation until hand clap at 16. Your supertank has nothing except Gauntlet, which is simply insufficient at low level in large (6+ player) groups.

I strongly suggest that any new players take Taunt at level 10 and then respec out of it later if they absolutely hate it. You are doing a disservice to new players who think they can join a large low-level team and do anything resembling tanking without aggro management abilities.

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Well, in a nutshell, I disagree. In my experience, you can get by (even on teams) just fine by relying on gauntlet. We have plenty of lower power, quick recharging attacks to spread the Gauntlet love around. In teams, I don't try to out damage the scrappers...or the blasters...or the defenders...wait, yes I do on the defenders.

If there is a spot Taunt fills better than Gauntlet/Invincibility, it's range. In team play, you will constantly have to keep an eye on your teammates to make sure they're not getting cornered out of your Gauntlet range. (One thing I like about SS, the "shockwave" graphic from each hit is roughly equal to the Gauntlet range)

Taunt would take some of that concern off your back, and if you really want it...well, it's a tight build in the early levels. There's not much you can do that won't push stamina back, so (I hate to say this) I'd consider skipping Haymaker for it. Then pick up Haymaker in place of RPD at 24. Me, I'd rather have the attack.

For everyone making up their minds on this issue, it has been discussed quite a bit amongst the tanker forums. I recommend taking a peak there, and I also recommend reading Circeus' So you want to know about taunt..., an excellent guide explaining how taunt and gauntlet work.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the other replies regarding Hasten. It is too much of an endurance hog for any Inv/- tank I've played. And superspeed is simply redundant with Flight. You can feel sufficiently Superman-ish and skip the Speed pool, IMO, while freeing up two power choices and 4 extra slots.

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I don't disagree it's redundant...this is a concept build. It's just intended to be a useful concept build (your mileage may vary). Hasten is an endurance hog, which is why I run it concurrently with Conserve Power - those two together are awesome for a Tanker, and I can't recommend them enough.

[ QUOTE ]
I would caution new players reading this guide to be careful when choosing powers that seem to save you slots in other powers, such as Hasten, Focused Accuracy, and Conserve Power. It is easy to look at these and say, "hey, I can take these powers and never have to slot recharge, accuracy, or endurance reduction!! Gimme damage!" Unfortunately, all of these powers are endurance hogs and/or are not always available. Plus, if you ever have an artificially reduced level from being an Exemplar, many of your high-end powers will be unavailable and your optimized slotting will fail you. My advice would be to take these powers as situational powers only; do not plan your build around them.

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For me, Hasten/Conserve Power is situational. I don't like Focused Accuracy for the very reasons you mention. I do rely on Invincibility/Rage for my accuracy, and yes, it is a bit of a gamble. But, any Inv tanker should plan on running Invinc full time anyway, and as a click-power, running Rage full time isn't that bad. You are dead-on about Exmplaring...it's not so bad once you have SO enhancements, but even so, losing any of the core INV/SS powers is very painful.


Hero14
SS/INV Tanker on Virtue
Superman Returns (INV/SS Guide for I8)

 

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Was just curious, why not take the Fighting pool, Boxing and Tough? It would help create the "Unstoppable" feel without the end/hp drop. Also, I know you stated that this isn't for PvP and you are trying to use less pools as possible, but can someone give a PvP variant of a superman build? Atleast one that does moderately well.


 

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If you take the fighting pool and ditch all the passives except tough hide, you end up with near max resist to sm/le, almost no resist to anything else (10% ?), but increase base defense a fair bit. Tough and Weave work nicley in the build, but it is purly a concept build IMO


 

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Wow someone kept it alive! Awsome job.

BTW Hi to anyone still out there


 

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Ermmmm........

Welcome Back!!!!


 

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_Havok_!!!!!


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

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My goodness! There is a name that I have not seen in a long, long time. Welcome back, Havok. Every Super Strength user owes you a debt for things like the power of Knockout Blow, and it is great to see you.


"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."

 

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Bah :P

No debt we all had a ton of fun back in the day. Crazy thing is I hopped back in the game and I can barely remember how to move let alone use my powers ... lol ... It's been what almost 2 years?


 

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WOW, welcome back, another Old School Tanker returns.


 

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Welcome back Havok!


-Largo

Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian

 

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Welcome back indeed!!!!

DDO finally bore you??? (I went there for a bit)


 

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omg dude, ur guide, like, made me make my invul/ss and spine/regen...be4 it was FOTM


 

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Welcome back indeed!!!!

DDO finally bore you??? (I went there for a bit)

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Ended up never playing DDO ... I heard such horror tales out of beta that I went to WoW for a while and got into a high end raiding guild till I got burned out by the 5 hours a night 4 days a week raiding schedule. It interfered with the fam.

With my daughter gone for the summer I got bored and thought I'ld come back to CoH. I missed the people and the lack of stress from the game. CoH still has the best community I've ever seen before.


 

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yep because im so awesome :P
look! +1 posts!


 

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I can sympathize, i played it for about 2 months after it came out and finally said....why???

And WoW is just a no no... been there done that, no thank you. And you came back for a good time tho with the 2nd rikti invasion looming in the distance....


 

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Ah, good. Get to work, Havok. Plenty of IO combo setups for you to work out.


"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon

"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight