Resisting Sleep, Stun, Hold, etc.
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2004-11-10 18:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Ah - one more thing. We're adding a new Inspiration that you can use to wake up from Sleep, Stun, Hold & Immobilize.
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Statesman - FWIW, I'd rather see more defender/controller types have access to Clear Mind, or a similar ability, than to create these inspirations. I fear that these will only help discourage grouping.
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I completely agree!
But we should make sure that these new powers fit in with the spirit of the powersets. Also, we should consider making them all work slightly differently, so they don't look like a cut-and-paste of Clear Mind. I have a few ideas for these new powers, consider my suggestions below.
Often when someone is slept or stunned, their toggles drop and they take damage. You could give the Storm Summoning line a power that clears/resists sleep and stun plus heals some damage. Call it something like "O2 Boost."
Kinetics power line already has a timed buff. Why not add another one, something kineticy like "Increase Density." You could have it resist Hold and Stun, plus Knockback as an added bonus.
Radiation Emission tends to have area effects. Why not give them a PBAE buff that resists Hold, Stun, and Sleep. Maybe even throw in some bonuses to damage and resistances while you are at it. I recommend "Accelerate Metabolism" as a good name that would fit the theme.
The Force Field powers focus on, well, force fields. You could give them a really big forcefield that protects the whole group from Hold, Stun, and Sleep. Give it a name like Dispersion Field or "Dispersion Bubble."
Lastly, you should give something extra special to the Dark Defenders, since everyone has been so down on them and there have been problems with their powers in the past. Psionic resistance is very rare in the game, and many status effects come from Psionic attacks. How about a group buff that gives resistance to Psionic, Energy, and Negative Energy? This would not only reduce the length of all status effects from those types of attacks, but it would reduce the damage taken too! To make it fit the dark theme, you should add a side-effect like stealth or something, if that's not too overpowered. Give it a really cool evil name like "Shadow Fall."
I really hope the Devs take my suggestions seriously. If we don't give all defenders a way to prevent or resist status effects some groups might start only accepting Empathy Defenders, and we know what a waste that would be. I want to see these new powers added as soon as possible.
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I realize that you're sarcastically trying to point out that these do already exist - and a fine job you did of it - but I have to correct you on a small point of fact.
Accelerate Metabolism provides status resistance, increased damage, increased movement speed, increased endurance regeneration, and reduced recharge times; it does not affect damage resistance at all.
Thank you for noticing that all Defenders do have status effects amelioration, however.
Sir Sean the Starknight
aka Cobalt-60, Rad/Rad Defender on Triumph
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Will the bad guys get these too?
Wouldn't that be fair?
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Not until we can root bosses can you talk about fair.
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Ah - one more thing. We're adding a new Inspiration that you can use to wake up from Sleep, Stun, Hold & Immobilize.
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Statesman - FWIW, I'd rather see more defender/controller types have access to Clear Mind, or a similar ability, than to create these inspirations. I fear that these will only help discourage grouping.
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I completely agree!
But we should make sure that these new powers fit in with the spirit of the powersets. Also, we should consider making them all work slightly differently, so they don't look like a cut-and-paste of Clear Mind. I have a few ideas for these new powers, consider my suggestions below.
Often when someone is slept or stunned, their toggles drop and they take damage. You could give the Storm Summoning line a power that clears/resists sleep and stun plus heals some damage. Call it something like "O2 Boost."
Kinetics power line already has a timed buff. Why not add another one, something kineticy like "Increase Density." You could have it resist Hold and Stun, plus Knockback as an added bonus.
Radiation Emission tends to have area effects. Why not give them a PBAE buff that resists Hold, Stun, and Sleep. Maybe even throw in some bonuses to damage and resistances while you are at it. I recommend "Accelerate Metabolism" as a good name that would fit the theme.
The Force Field powers focus on, well, force fields. You could give them a really big forcefield that protects the whole group from Hold, Stun, and Sleep. Give it a name like Dispersion Field or "Dispersion Bubble."
Lastly, you should give something extra special to the Dark Defenders, since everyone has been so down on them and there have been problems with their powers in the past. Psionic resistance is very rare in the game, and many status effects come from Psionic attacks. How about a group buff that gives resistance to Psionic, Energy, and Negative Energy? This would not only reduce the length of all status effects from those types of attacks, but it would reduce the damage taken too! To make it fit the dark theme, you should add a side-effect like stealth or something, if that's not too overpowered. Give it a really cool evil name like "Shadow Fall."
I really hope the Devs take my suggestions seriously. If we don't give all defenders a way to prevent or resist status effects some groups might start only accepting Empathy Defenders, and we know what a waste that would be. I want to see these new powers added as soon as possible.
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Your wish is my command...
<hack hack hack... fiddle fiddle...tweak tweak>
Done!
Now everyone has access to these powers if they choose the right powersets...
We didn't even need to bother the devs with this. Now aren't I nice?!
This is good news. My mates have accused me of being an alcoholic, what with all the wobbling I do in battle. Anything I can do to dispel that notion (while still hiding my wine in the bota bag on my tactical belt) is desirable.
nice idea, but not really helpful in my eyes. playing a fire/fire tanker to 50, Toggles are the life of a tanker. 1 stun/sleep/hold turns all toggles off. Now you click that insperation, and you can start to turn your 4-6 toggles back on. Now Vs. certain villians, you don't have time to do so. Chain casting of hold/sleep from rikti. so then after breaking 1 hold/stun/sleep you get held again. You click a 2nd insperation? wont matter cause when going against villians who do nothing but chain cast hold/sleep/stun. or villians who have a chance of stunning every hit.
good idea, but not good enough.
The idea that this inspiration makes Controller less powerful is retarded.
That's like saying Healing inspirations make Blasters useless, because you can "negate" their powers by using an inspiration afterward.
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I think people are getting the wrong impression when they think that a single impression will break you out of any single status effect. In my mind I picture these inspirations having a magnitude to them much like the powers themselves.
Geko said all players have a normal status magnitude of -1. As soon as that number hits 1 or higher, the effect kicks in. For example, let's say you're fighting a Rikti Mentalist whose holds are magnitude 3 (I'm not sure of the exact numbers). The hold lands and you're now at magnitude 2; and held. Pop the inspirations and you're status drops back down to -1, freeing you from the hold. However, that means multiple holds can't be broken out of so easily. Say two Mentalists each land their hold bumping your status to 5. A single magnitude 3 inspiration only drops you down to 2, keeping you held. Anyway, that's how I imagine it might work.
P.S. - I hope I made sense. 
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i think this is the only possible implementation of this inspiration that will keep a lot of controllers from boycotting pvp altogether. if, however, the inspiration does act as a complete status effect remover, you probably won't see many mind controllers in an arena or pvp zone.
and to the people who assume that pvp will be balanced for all ATs, consider momentarily that pve is NOT balanced for all ATs and that the balance rests in favor of giving the player a little bit of an upper hand (case in point, these and other inspirations). but pretend for a second that mobs used inspirations as efficiently as players do. if you are a controller facing off against an even con nebel fist, and you can't hold him, it's going to be a risky fight. less so with pets, but players will have one benefit over game ai: they'll know which target to attack first to get rid of the pets most efficiently.
granted, pvp supremacy in mmorpgs shifts with the introduction of new content quite a lot, but this is definitely a knock specifically against controllers (and some defenders.)
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Ah - one more thing. We're adding a new Inspiration that you can use to wake up from Sleep, Stun, Hold & Immobilize.
Yep - so if you're stunned, wobbling back and forth - you can use this Inspiration and WHAMMO - you're ready for action.
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I feel kinda.... used... Didn't I PM you about an idea just like this a few weeks ago, as well as cook this up in a thread with someone else just before that?? The one thing that would eliminate a ton of frusteration with the game...
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That was you and I warborg. Looks like the devs have worked out the kinks. How much inf is it gonna cost? What kind of drop rate is it going to have? Is it going to be sold by contacts? Is there a 3 tier scale like all other inspirations? Is there a resistance timer after the insp is used?
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My character in coh beta.
My character in a coh beta mission.
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The idea that this inspiration makes Controller less powerful is retarded.
That's like saying Healing inspirations make Blasters useless, because you can "negate" their powers by using an inspiration afterward.
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agreed. but there are no inspirations presently that reduce damage altogether, either, whereas there is the discipline line of inspirations. that's the main difference. now not only could we not arrest you quickly, but we can't do it safely, either.
YAY!!!! After this inspiration is added the fun has returned to the game. Looks like I can actually fight Riktis again!
um, why don't you just change the disciplines so you can take the while you are held, slept or stunned etc. The description implies that you can take it whille under a status effect, just that it might not do you any good.
Why not make it work, and make it usable at the time when you need it most? Rather than make a whole new one... just seems silly to me.
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agreed. but there are no inspirations presently that reduce damage altogether
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Defense effectively reduces overall damage taken. Combined with Healing and Discipline to resist secondary affects, there is just as much opportunity to counter a Blaster with Inpsirations as there are to counter Controllers.
Bottom line is, you only have room for so many Inspirations. Sure, you can carry 12 Disciplines and be "unholdable" for awhile, if you want, but where does that leave you with Healing, Accuracy, Defense, Ressurrect, etc.? It's a choice and a balance that everyone is going to have to learn to make.
Occasionally a Controller might meet someone who has stocked up on Disciplines and whatever this new Inspiration is. In that case, they will have a tough battle ahead of them.
Likewise, occasionally a Blaster is going to go up against a Tanker who has all of his resists toggled, and a tray full of Healing and Defense inspirations. Again, an obstacle to overcome.
When it comes down to it, no one person is going to be prepared to deal with every scenario at all times. That's a key aspect of balance in PVP.
Ah, a heaven-send for Blasters! Shrugging off status effects is way cool! Hooray for Statesman!
Another inspiration suggestion: a recharge rate inspiration. For the 1% of us that don't take Hasten, it would be great for emergencies.
Scorus
If the Inspiration doesn't work like Clear Minds then Stun/Kill chain casting will still be a problem. If a villain or two are using a sleep power on me over and over and I pop one of the new inspirations to free myself and am immediately slept again while they continue to pummel me to death..... what' s changed??? And if they make it like Clear Minds, then the need for a Healer greatly diminishes.
I run an Empathy Controller and frequently get tells when I'm looking for a team asking if I have Clear Minds and Fortitude. After issue 2 I didn't have Clear Minds yet and usually didn't get picked up by the team.
Like most things in games, this will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Shrugging off status promotes soloing.
So it is a nerf to controllers pre 32 and the E-AT.
It's a gimme for soloing blasters, since scrappers (whom are all regen by now) dont need em.
With other games like Eq2 and WOW so close, I'd have thought they would be more careful to keep all classes able to progress through the levels.
What's the point of a single target buff if you can just pop a couple insps that takes you to the cap anyway?
Acrobatics will be way less desireable now. Knockdown protect for tier 4 is pretty weak.
And ID is so short and is only Res status, so your toggles still drop even while buffed. Power just became as useful as a 50inf jolly rancher.
Now I'll admit being perma held is the most tedious/unfun event in the game, but I think the problem is with the surplus of status that player's are encountering. Being held for 5 seconds is ok, being held for 25 secs and whittled is unfun.
It won't make devouring earth any more fun to fight, since they will just chain hold as soon as you wake.
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Are there any existing pills that I can pop while I'm under a status effect? It turns out there is. Revives! So the idea of being able to trigger an anti-status inspiration while sleeping or stunned doesn't seem that odd to me when you can pop a pill while *dead* 
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Hey, yeah. That's a really good point. 
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Still don't like the idea of two anti-status insps. Merge this post-effect ability with Iron Wills, replace one with the other, however you want to look at it, but we don't have enough insp slots to be playing an inspiration arms race.
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I like how you think. I thought about the different inspirations I carry around normally and how I don't have enough slots to fit in new types. I just didn't post it.
Ferrium - Inv/SS Tanker
Hyperforce - SS/Regen Brute
Member of V for Vengance (Exalted)
"I feel good, and I'm not scared at all.
I just feel kind of... kind of invincible.
Is it getting hot in here, or is it just me?"
For those who want to bind quotes for the use of the inspirations.
Ferrium - Inv/SS Tanker
Hyperforce - SS/Regen Brute
Member of V for Vengance (Exalted)
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Not until we can root bosses can you talk about fair.
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You can root bosses. Easily. What the heck are you talking about?
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By making toggles not drop your effectively making some characters undefeatable. So the new inspiration becomes the I win button. Woo hoo lets make the game a total snooze fest because there are very little ramifications for being defeated and on top of that you can only be defeated by mobs of 30 that are at least +8. Man that sounds like fun-
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As opposed to being completely useless because the moment my toggles drop (as a tanker, or to a slightly lesser extent as a scrapper) I'm dead in about 0.2 seconds because I've got a gazillion things pounding on me. (And you know, tankers and scrappers are the ones that really depend on toggles).
So basically these change nothing, those with an anti-mez power still run it 100% of the time and still die when mezs stack over them, the rest get a chance to run if they're fighting at most 1 enemy because more than that will kill them in a split second thanks to their squishy nature.
Waste of development time if you ask me. Specially if you have to carry both these and disciplines to be able to make any decent progress.
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Will the bad guys get these too?
Wouldn't that be fair?
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Not until we can root bosses can you talk about fair.
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I can root bosses. Hell, I can completely immobilize them. Sorry you're having problems...But Tenebrous Tentacles and Petrifying Gaze (Gaze not even slotted yet) do a bang-up job on completely neutralizing bosses. Hell, my pet, Smokey, still unslotted, can lock down AV's...
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Ah - one more thing. We're adding a new Inspiration that you can use to wake up from Sleep, Stun, Hold & Immobilize.
Yep - so if you're stunned, wobbling back and forth - you can use this Inspiration and WHAMMO - you're ready for action.
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I know this is selfish, but will I get more inspiration slots? I need to carry 75% health, 20% Cab, and 5% awakens right now.
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That pretty much makes City of Villains unplayable for Controllers! Thanks!
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Not for an Illusion/Radiation controller.
When your accuracy and damage have been debuffed and my Phantom Army, Phantasms, and decoy Phantasms are all circling you, ready for the kill, who cares if you can't stay held? You're still going down.
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Ah - one more thing. We're adding a new Inspiration that you can use to wake up from Sleep, Stun, Hold & Immobilize.
Yep - so if you're stunned, wobbling back and forth - you can use this Inspiration and WHAMMO - you're ready for action.
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I for one don't like it. I am a controller, I am a walking mezz stopper.
thanks for making me less viable for team play once again.
YES!
YES! YES!
YYYYEEEEESSSS!
My Number Two cause of soloing character debt, somewhat mitigated. Excellent.