sorry, but the low end (1-20) is NOT fun now.
By
7onTest,
Posted on: 2004-09-22 06:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
Lets see resistance to both melee and ranged attacks of lethal, smashing, energy..and with one of the most damaging secondaries of the entire defender line...
[/ QUOTE ]
It's obvious you know nothing about the Force Field powers. *laughs* At level six I had Deflection Shield, Power Bolt, Force Bolt, Energy Torrent, and Power Blast. Guess what.. Deflection Shield only works on OTHER heroes. So I didn't get any defense benefit from my primary powerset. I used Force Bolt to keep the Eel and Bedrock on their butts. Energy also has knockback effects to it.
I chose those powers because I like flinging the villains all over the place, off the top of buildings, and such. It's fun. The more I knock a villain around, the less time he's attacking me. Simple tactics.
[ QUOTE ]
The solution so many offer is run back to your contact and stock up on inspirations
[/ QUOTE ]
I restocked once, when I died. It would be stupid to not stop at a contact on the way back to a mission and restock.
[ QUOTE ]
.rather than give a substantive argument you resort to namecalling....
[/ QUOTE ]
I posted many ways to play better. I even posted a demofile of my fight with Eel, yet people still claim the game is too hard instead of learning to play better. The devs should not listen to those people. They are not the majority here. (That's my opinion based on personal experience in game.)
[ QUOTE ]
From Miss Aurora:
I speak from personal experience while playing in the Hollows and doing missions with groups and solo. There are more people in game that I've met with personally that are enjoying the new difficulty then there are not enjoying it. Hanging around the Atlas entrance you hear a lot of stuff in broadcast and local and you get a general feeling about the area just by listening to the people you group with.
[/ QUOTE ]
A flaw... I do not enjoy the game and have not signed on for over a week now. I wonder if others who are displeased with the game also do that. I thought someone of your "stated" intelligence and background would surely take this into account of your samplings.
[ QUOTE ]
*laughs*
[/ QUOTE ]
It cannot say anything without adding derision.
[ QUOTE ]
Your arguments are of the form: "I made it across the expressway blindfolded...so everyone can...."
bah go play in traffic some more...
[/ QUOTE ]
I just have to say it.... LAUGHING MY "rear end" OFF! Funniest metaphore I've heard in some time. 
Still, you'll notice she doesn't respond to anyone's actual points or arguments. She's just continuing with the same generalizations about cowards and how, because we don't hear from the people who enjoy the game as much, then obviously they're the more numerous. I think it's perfectly valid to be frustrated with the players who say, "This is too difficult for me so it must be too difficult for everyone," but its also frustrating for a person not to recognize the reverse, "This is perfect... Anyone who disagrees with me is a fool," is just as moronic. It speaks volumes about a person's virtue when you see them acting in such a way. (Gee, who's sig did I see "virtue" in lately...) 
[ QUOTE ]
Still, you'll notice she doesn't respond to anyone's actual points or arguments.
[/ QUOTE ]
Go back and re-read my posts. I've posted many ways to beat Eel. Even a demofile. There's no need to keep reposting the tactics I used over and over.
[ QUOTE ]
think it's perfectly valid to be frustrated with the players who say, "This is too difficult for me so it must be too difficult for everyone," but its also frustrating for a person not to recognize the reverse, "This is perfect... Anyone who disagrees with me is a fool," is just as moronic. It speaks volumes about a person's virtue when you see them acting in such a way. (Gee, who's sig did I see "virtue" in lately...)
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah that Virtue is there to point out which server to not play on so I'm not saddled with baggage when I join groups to do missions. I'm more frustrated with the people whining about the difficulty of the game when it really isn't all that difficult. They continue to whine even after valid tactics for non-uber builds are posted.
[ QUOTE ]
It is OK, Kazarak. Miss A's opinion of me truly does not matter. Besides... I have been called far worse by far better people. LOL
[/ QUOTE ]
As a general rule I avoid filtering, but for what it's worth I just took the time to figure out how to ignore a user on this forum.
I feel much better already. In fact, far from feeling "cowardly", I am actually congratulating myself on having the wisdom to figure out that nothing this person says will interest me ever again.
Ignore works, people. Feel the power.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You need to choose a new label because calling someone coward sparks very harsh, angry reactions. This is not an incredibly wise course of action on your part, and if you continue to do so I will contniue to report it until you either are stopped or banned. Period.
[/ QUOTE ]
So which of these lables should I apply to the quitters that run away from their mission instead of finding a way to beat it?
Synonyms: alarmist, baby, big baby, caitiff, chicken, chicken liver, chicken-heart, craven, cur, dastard, deserter, faint-of-heart, fraidy cat, funk, gutless, gutless wonder, invertebrate, jellyfish, lily-liver, malingerer, milksop, milquetoast, mollycoddle, mouse, nerd, pessimist, poltroon, punk, quitter, rabbit, recreant, scaredy-cat, shirk, shirker, sissy, skulker, sneak, turkey, weak sister, weakling, white liver, yellow, yellow-belly.
Mouse or rabbit seems good. Let the little rabbits run back to their holes while the wolves go out to play and have fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
A. You aren't just using it in that context. You're using it to describe everyone who disagrees with you. Even if you did use it in that context, it is STILL NAME CALLING AND A VIOLATION OF THE BOARD GUIDELINES.
B. It's incredibly distateful, disrespectful, childish and uncalled for. You don't know who you're using it against. It can be a veteran who lost friends, and a limb in war for all you know. Regardless it's uncalled for.
Ok, let's everyone take a nice deep breath and settle down, shall we?
It's pretty clear that opinions on both sides of the issue are strong. However, the current tone of the discussion is going to get what could be an otherwise constructive thread closed VERY quickly.
If you like reduced difficulty, great. If you like increased difficulty, huzzah. How about this.
To make the decreased difficulty version of the game more enjoyable for those who want a challenge, why not post some constructive suggestions on what folks can do to make it more challenging.
Here's a few:
1.) If missions are too easy, ask a player to team with you, enter the mission, and ask them to leave. The mission will spawn extra/tougher mobs.
2.) Try hunting higher than you usually do (reds & purples) or in zones where you're low level. IE: if you're 14-15, head over to IP and take on level 20 Family minions/LTs.
3.) Try fighting "with one hand tied behind your back." In other words, take on challenges where you refuse to use certain powers or inspirations, or unslot your attacks (or just don't upgrade them).
But please, let's move away from personal attacks on BOTH sides of the issue, and get back to constructive debate before this thread gets closed or people start getting banned.
[ QUOTE ]
It can be a veteran who lost friends, and a limb in war for all you know.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aurora would say they are gimped and need to re-roll.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It can be a veteran who lost friends, and a limb in war for all you know.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aurora would say they are gimped and need to re-roll.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe, that's a good one. Thanks for making me chuckle
Everyone seems mystified that the low end game is no longer fun to play. This whole community is like a flock of ostriches with their heads buried in the sand, saying everything looks fine to me! Yes sirree!
Why don't you try reading the thread Solo... instead of posting useless ideas that don't have any merit in game. You can't take missions above your level just because you want to. Street hunting is boring and stupid and something that I honestly think does not belong in the game. It should not be so prevalent.
Bugging people to join your group only to kick them out a moment later is a really stupid idea. For one, it only lasts for the first floor of a mission. Two, it could garner you a bad rep in game for joining and quitting groups. Three, it takes too long. I have a limited amount of time to play. I don't need to waste the time I have cajoling people into joining my group. They have better things to be doing and so do I.
Not using inspirations or certain powers is just dumbing down yourself which is also flat out stupid. I will not play that way. I will use every means available to my characters to defeat the enemy. I will not play dumb. The rest of you can just learn to play smarter and everyone will be better off in the end.
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, let's everyone take a nice deep breath and settle down, shall we?
It's pretty clear that opinions on both sides of the issue are strong. However, the current tone of the discussion is going to get what could be an otherwise constructive thread closed VERY quickly.
If you like reduced difficulty, great. If you like increased difficulty, huzzah. How about this.
To make the decreased difficulty version of the game more enjoyable for those who want a challenge, why not post some constructive suggestions on what folks can do to make it more challenging.
Here's a few:
1.) If missions are too easy, ask a player to team with you, enter the mission, and ask them to leave. The mission will spawn extra/tougher mobs.
2.) Try hunting higher than you usually do (reds & purples) or in zones where you're low level. IE: if you're 14-15, head over to IP and take on level 20 Family minions/LTs.
3.) Try fighting "with one hand tied behind your back." In other words, take on challenges where you refuse to use certain powers or inspirations, or unslot your attacks (or just don't upgrade them).
But please, let's move away from personal attacks on BOTH sides of the issue, and get back to constructive debate before this thread gets closed or people start getting banned.
[/ QUOTE ]
And if you prefer decreased difficulty:
1. Try avoiding mob types that are particularly difficult for your toon.
2. Try street sweeping for green-blues.
3. If the mission is too tough, get a higher lvl toon to go in with you, which will increase the number of mobs, but not their levels.
The shoe fits equally well on either foot.
Seriously, I don't get why the people that want a challenge have to make all the concessions like purposefully GIMPING themselves in a fight, not using the powers that they spent so much time leveling to achieve. It's the worst idea I ever heard. Now a compromize between the two sides of this debate would be good, but I don't think that is what we're in the process of seeing.
Taking the pulse of what I see on these boards, as well as dev comments and patch notes, I believe that those complaining about the Update 2 difficulty are winning this debate, and that, through a series of interim patches over the next two weeks, every piece of code that even slightly increased difficulty in any situation will be removed. I also think that after this reaction the devs will rethink their plan to increase the post level 25 difficulty, which would no doubt garner many more complaints.
Please, just give us a slider now, so those who want to employ tactics in a battle and those who want who want a simple push buttons/guarentee outcome experience can go their separate ways.
- felicity
[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you try reading the thread Solo... instead of posting useless ideas that don't have any merit in game. You can't take missions above your level just because you want to. Street hunting is boring and stupid and something that I honestly think does not belong in the game. It should not be so prevalent.
Bugging people to join your group only to kick them out a moment later is a really stupid idea. For one, it only lasts for the first floor of a mission. Two, it could garner you a bad rep in game for joining and quitting groups. Three, it takes too long. I have a limited amount of time to play. I don't need to waste the time I have cajoling people into joining my group. They have better things to be doing and so do I.
Not using inspirations or certain powers is just dumbing down yourself which is also flat out stupid. I will not play that way. I will use every means available to my characters to defeat the enemy. I will not play dumb. The rest of you can just learn to play smarter and everyone will be better off in the end.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am just basking in the greatness that is... Miss Aurora.
Solo_4114 came up with "suggestions" on how to make the game more difficult and your response is... "That's NOT the way *I* play!" Talking to a wall delivers more intelligent conversation than these posts do.
[ QUOTE ]
From Felicity_Flame:
Please, just give us a slider now, so those who want to employ tactics in a battle and those who want who want a simple push buttons/guarentee outcome experience can go their separate ways.
[/ QUOTE ]
While this is a great idea, where are the Devs supposed to get this "slider"?
[ QUOTE ]
While this is a great idea, where are the Devs supposed to get this "slider"?
[/ QUOTE ]
Same place they got the instanced mission engine:
Anarchy Online.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From Felicity_Flame:
Please, just give us a slider now, so those who want to employ tactics in a battle and those who want who want a simple push buttons/guarentee outcome experience can go their separate ways.
[/ QUOTE ]
While this is a great idea, where are the Devs supposed to get this "slider"?
[/ QUOTE ]
The same place they get everything else. They code it. They're doing it right now. It's just a question of how long it takes.
- felicity
[ QUOTE ]
Please, just give us a slider now, so those who want to employ tactics in a battle and those who want who want a simple push buttons/guarentee outcome experience can go their separate ways.
[/ QUOTE ]
oh come on FF, you can do better than that!
Thats akin to someone saying ..please give me a slider now so I can powerlevel faster and the low level controllers can stop complaining that they cant solo their door missions..
Not really a fair statement now is it.
I can tell you have a real lust for this slider-thing, but dont let it make you start talkin smack.
As for whether the devs are leaning this way or what way. Who knows. But as outrageous as it may be, the increased diff was a bug. Supposedly. So if we take Statesman at his word, then this isnt what his vision of the game was supposed to be.
Cripes, how did some of you guys EVER play this game prior to i2?
[ QUOTE ]
Solo_4114 came up with "suggestions" on how to make the game more difficult and your response is... "That's NOT the way *I* play!" Talking to a wall delivers more intelligent conversation than these posts do.
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess you lack reading comprehension as well. Every suggestion he posted was already posted in earlier pages and countered there as well. Someone else countered solo's pathetic argument as well. Here, let me quote it again for you.
[ QUOTE ]
And if you prefer decreased difficulty:
1. Try avoiding mob types that are particularly difficult for your toon.
2. Try street sweeping for green-blues.
3. If the mission is too tough, get a higher lvl toon to go in with you, which will increase the number of mobs, but not their levels.
The shoe fits equally well on either foot.
[/ QUOTE ]
The players who earned their levels and powers want to use those powers. We want to be challenged when using everything available to us. You don't see baseball players tying one arm behind their back during a game just to make it more challenging. Instead the crappy players train to get better.
And that's what the mice in CoH should do. Stop running away from their own shadow, actually take the time to learn how all their powers work and try to think of situations where they can be used to their full advantage (i.e. using Force Bolt to knock a powerful off a walkway over the railing, buying some time to recover), and just learn to play the game more intelligently, rather than whining on the forums to get the difficulty of the game nerfed.
[ QUOTE ]
Cripes, how did some of you guys EVER play this game prior to i2?
[/ QUOTE ]
I was bored and finally set CoH aside for almost a month, waiting to see what Issue #2 would bring. Now that issue #2 is out, the new katana animations are in, and the missions are a challenge now, I'm having a blast. So are a lot of other people... and in my experience in game, the people enjoying the new difficulty are more numerous than the whiners who aren't.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please, just give us a slider now, so those who want to employ tactics in a battle and those who want who want a simple push buttons/guarentee outcome experience can go their separate ways.
[/ QUOTE ]
oh come on FF, you can do better than that!
Thats akin to someone saying ..please give me a slider now so I can powerlevel faster and the low level controllers can stop complaining that they cant solo their door missions..
Not really a fair statement now is it.
I can tell you have a real lust for this slider-thing, but dont let it make you start talkin smack.
As for whether the devs are leaning this way or what way. Who knows. But as outrageous as it may be, the increased diff was a bug. Supposedly. So if we take Statesman at his word, then this isnt what his vision of the game was supposed to be.
Cripes, how did some of you guys EVER play this game prior to i2?
[/ QUOTE ]
My tone to some extent is a product of frustration. I started playing this game about 2.5 months ago. I had limited MMO experience prior to COH, so for a while it was fun and challenging. About a month ago, I started "clicking" with how to build and play my toons, and so did my regular teammates. The game (post-lvl 22 for sure) has gotten rather routine since then, and I'm seeing a lot of discontent in my group over that. Door missions are basically a joke. 6-8 white con minions and 2 yellow lts in a typical group, maybe an orange boss if we're lucky. It's nothing for 4 toons who play well together. We don't have to be careful at all.
Then I see Issue 2 come out and things are for the most part more fun, but people are complaining in droves. To some extent, I can understand it with respect to the lower levels. I have a level 15 Fire Controller who is having a tough time soloing certain missions right now. But the level and frequency of complaints seems to reach every level, every AT, every aspect of the game. It seems every time someone has a tough encounter in a door mission they want to come and ask that a particular mob power be nerfed or removed. It really isn't any one poster. It's the cumulative effect. I believe it is giving the developers the impression that the majority want this game easy, and it does not bode well for those of us who want a game that challenges our intellect and tactical ability.
The slider concept is not just something I have a fetish for. Every comp game, no matter what genre, needs a concept of difficulty that is configurable by the player. It is absolutely essential that no dev team think that one size fits all. Their original concept was that street sweeping would provide the needed flexibility, but they failed to consider that many people find street sweeping repetitive, so if they do not like the door mission difficulty (too low or too high), they are stuck between a rock and hardplace. The fact that many MMO's do not have difficulty sliders should not be a deterrent here. This is an age of better and better comp games. If making this game better for everyone means borrowing a concept from FPS games, then so be it.
I just want to continue to enjoy this game for a good while. It was really fun for a while, and it still is some of the time. But with every passing gripe I hear on these boards about how someone got killed in a mission, I feel it slipping away...
- felicity
[ QUOTE ]
From the Esteemed Miss Aurora:
The players who earned their levels and powers want to use those powers. We want to be challenged when using everything available to us. You don't see baseball players tying one arm behind their back during a game just to make it more challenging. Instead the crappy players train to get better.
And that's what the mice in CoH should do. Stop running away from their own shadow, actually take the time to learn how all their powers work and try to think of situations where they can be used to their full advantage (i.e. using Force Bolt to knock a powerful off a walkway over the railing, buying some time to recover), and just learn to play the game more intelligently, rather than whining on the forums to get the difficulty of the game nerfed.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) Baseball is a job. You don't do your best and you don't get paid. CoH is a GAME!
2) Life pushes me to my limits enough, thank you. I do not need to play a game to feel "all powerful" and "challenged".
3) None of Solo_4114 suggestions said anything about "powers". He did mention the use of inspirations, which I notice *you* seem to pop like steroids. Why do you do that? Is the game too tough for you do "unenhanced"?
4) "Running away". Interesting that *you*, who is so proud of that Electric Eel demo, would say that. What you call "Tactics" I see as cowardly.
"Take that, Electric Eel!"
"And THAT!"
"EEK! I am getting beat! RUN AWAY!!! RUN AWAY!!!!"
*pant pant puff puff*
/rest
(round 2)
"Take THAT, Electric Eel!"
And "That!"
"WOO HOOO!!!!!! I am the all powerful Miss Aurora! I OWN YOU!!!!"
yea... real heroic there. You have the ability to rest up. Villains I have met do not. yup. You're one helluva gamer there. And intelligent, too. Oh yes, cannot forget intelligent.
Basically, Miss A, I am truly unimpressed with your MMOG prowess. I am happy that you like the game post Issue 2. I am also happy that you feel vindicated now and feel the superiority that you have so longed for now.
enhh...
Ok two can play this game. In my experience in game, the people who aren't enjoying the new difficulty are more numerous than the whiners who are. You can make up all the aribtrary BS you want but the changes were not indended and will be fixed. This is a FIX and not a NERF. You do understand the difference right?
[ QUOTE ]
Ok two can play this game. In my experience in game, the people who aren't enjoying the new difficulty are more numerous than the whiners who are. You can make up all the aribtrary BS you want but the changes were not indended and will be fixed. This is a FIX and not a NERF. You do understand the difference right?
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL I just have to laugh at this. The devs put literally dozens of individual elements into issue 2 that all seem to increase difficulty, some in very small ways, others in bigger ways. Errors/bugs are by nature random. They could go one way or the other. Believing that ALL the increased difficulty was inadvertent is tantamount to believing the cashier who has shortchanged you the last 20 times you purchased goods and never made an error the other way, when he says each and every time it was just a mistake.
Sure, some of this is bugs. I believe the devs about the +1 mission bug (I think). But no way was all of this increased difficulty inadvertant. Some of it was experimentation. Recall that the devs thought the game too easy pre-Udate (at least post level 25). Consider also that toon powers overall were given a boost (about 40 were improved vs. 3-4 nerfed). And they dramatically increased door mission XP. Maybe they thought they had to toughen up some mobs to maintain at least a constant difficulty level?
Does anyone seriously believe that the devs added all these powers to minions of various mob groups and each separate occurrence was an "oops." And "oops, I did it again." Each a separate and specific error of *commission*. LOL
- felicity
[ QUOTE ]
Correct, which is why all these posts about the game being too difficult should not be listened to by the devs. They're trying to speak for the majority when it is clear they are not. Otherwise you would see many, many, many more posts about the Hollows than there are.
[/ QUOTE ]
I cannot speak for anyone else, but *my* posts have been stated to be "my opinions" and experiences. I don't need to bring in any self-supporting words like "everyone", "all", or even "most" to my posts. I stand by my opinions and state them as such. You may call me anything you desire. You may call my posts anything you desire (ie: whiney). I truly do not hold you in high enough esteem to warrant any personal injury from your opinions.