sorry, but the low end (1-20) is NOT fun now.
By
7onTest,
Posted on: 2004-09-22 06:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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These are most certainly reactions; had we seen this better on the Training Room server we would have changed each and every one.
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This probably goes without being said, but since I feel like forum ******* today I'll say it anyway:
Please let the next one stew on the test server longer. Remember, we held those protests in City Hall to get Issue 2 on TEST, not on production. IMHO, in an ideal world it wouldn't be live even now.
Despite that, you've made an awesome game, and I thank you for it. Again.
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i hate to say this, but as much as i love the game. i have to agree with the above. like the bug in the tv trial where if you slotted your enhancements it would lock up and crash the game, forcing you to do the whole thing over again. that and the +1 mobs and the fact that the enemies seem to have gotten a lot smarter make this new update a little screwy. i think more testing needs to be done, but i also think it is also the fault of the players who decide NOT to go onto test to help find the problems that are the reason there are so many.
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Fine, Statesman, but how about the mission I had today (1 hour timed) to take out Sidokan and His Coven with my L18 Energy/Energy Blaster. The overall mission not too bad in spite of a number of +1 Astral Followers until I got to the Boss (+1 RED) who cast stuns and holds in chains so that the toon could not move, run, attack or anything until dead. He died twice trying to take the boss out and finally gave up and let the mission time out. I have done this mission before Update #2 with other alts and never had this kind of experience. Bug? I have petitioned it.
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I did this same mission night before last. (As a level 20 MC/EMP Controller and Solo I might add). +1 Red Boss got me twice, but the third time I managed to get Total Dom and Dom to stick, and he never moved again! Still the mission xp wasn't worth the debt, but it definately felt good to watch him drop!
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i think more testing needs to be done, but i also think it is also the fault of the players who decide NOT to go onto test to help find the problems that are the reason there are so many.
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Um, no. Those of us who were on test weren't able to get through to the devs, I doubt that adding more people would have made a difference. It might have just made things worse - too many people on one server causes it to lag, and then nothing gets tested.
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I started 2 alts after the patch to check it out,yup its harder,and i died a few times but overall im enjoying the heck outta it :]
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I have been a longtime alt-aholic. I tend to focus on controllers and defenders, so soloing for me has always required tactics and patience, but after a while "hit and run" tactics with only 2 or 3 powers just gets boring, and Issue 2's early game changes have contributed to that. I suspect I'll be less of an alt-aholic in the future, concentrating more on the toons I already have.
My lvl 20 Controller is having a blast post Issue 2, though, so that's some balance for you. She's having an easier time finding teams, soloed her cape mission the first try, and the 'nerf' to PA turned out to be much less of a nerf than originally feared. I'm looking foward to trying the respec mission in a couple of weeks with her, and hope to take her well up into the higher lvls now.
Overall I am not unhappy, but I am a little concerned for newbies to the game and whether they'll come to love it as much as we longer-time players do. I vividly remember my first toons and how much of a struggle it was with them. If I'd had Issue 2 to contend with as well as my noobness then I might never have perservered.
Just to play Devil's Advocate:
While he replied to the threads in the training room, it appears from the context that he (and by implication the Devs) did not see the extent to which the +1 villains occaisioned themselves. In other words: they knew of +1 villains but did not think it was a bug because they assumed the occurance was infrequent rather than frequent.
"This is not occuring in any greater % than they were previously"... By what measure? When you have a mission that is front loaded, the instances of having +1s are, obviously at the front with subsequent groups getting lower till you get to the -2. It's possible they assumed the frequency of +1s would be limited to 1 or 2 groups within the mission. A small percentage (5%) rather than 50% or more.
The "bug" then, was not so much +1s being in the mission but that they were occuring with far greater frequency than intended. I imagine whatever code they had that varied the levels +2/-2 with front or back loading was not fully tweaked.
It would be interesting to see a more lengthy explanation as to what the bug is/was and how it was they didn't notice it occuring everywhere.
Compare the two quotes from Statesman:
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This is not occuring in any greater % than they were previously
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I cannot stress enough - the +1 mobs everywhere are a BUG
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Assumption: The Devs knew +1s could occur, but did not expect them to occur everywhere. In my opinion, I would not call this a lie or even deceptive. In my opinion, taking what is said at face value, they made a mistake by assuming people were whining about infrequent +1s when in reality they were very frequent. They made a mistake. They admit that mistake. The mistake was that they did not notice. Notice what? Notice the frequency of it occuring. The mistake was also that they did not take the complaint seriously enough. The 'why' to that is another reason that we most likely will not have insight into.
I'm not doing this so much as to defend but to point out that a case can be made for him to be admitting the correct mistake: failure to notice the occurance was everywhere and not the absence of said occurance.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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BTW: Statesman stated a few days ago that the slider MAY come as soon as issue 3 but maybe later. You sure you want to wait that long? That makes it around Xmas time. I sure don't.
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Ditto, I play Martial Arts, Katana, Broadsword Scrappers, a Fire/Fire Tanker, and an Assault/Devices Blaster all ranging from level 10 to level 30, and now when I solo, I get my butt kicked every which way but loose and rack up a lot of debt with what are among the best solo archetypes in this game. If soloing is now very difficult for Scrappers and Blasters, is must be impossible for support classes to solo now.
While I greatly welcome more challenging door missions for more experience, seeing as most villains groups have been given power enhancements (gotta love the Tsoo throwing handfuls of caltrops) and +1 to +3 mobs now hang out in large groups even in solo missions, a Mission Difficulty Selector is needed now more than ever.
Statesman, please let us know when this difficulty bug is corrected so we can know if soloing is still an option in CoH; however, if the present door mission difficulty is how things are going to remain for a while, I will just come back to CoH when the Difficulty Slider is implemented.
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...and now when I solo, I get my butt kicked every which way but loose and rack up a lot of debt with what are among the best solo archetypes in this game.
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*laughs* Learn to play better than. I can solo my Force Field / Energy Blast defender and be successful. I beat the Electric Eel mission in the Hollows with only two deaths. One of them because I was stupid and got too close. The other because I was stupid again and stopped when I had 27 health and his attack was doing 33. I should've kept running.
Regardless of those two deaths, I loaded up on more inspirations and went back and kicked his butt. I even took a demo of it and a friend of mine is hosting it:
http://www.exileink.com/ElectricEel.zip
I love the new difficulty in the game now. The only problem is that the missions are spawning way too many villains for larger groups. Solo spawn is great. Group spawn over four is borked unless you've got a really good group together.
I cannot wait ofr the difficulty slider and I will boot out anyone in any group I lead that doesn't want to do that hardest difficulty. I don't have time to deal with pansies and cowards. They can go street patrol green and blue cons for all I care. I want a game that challenges me. Not a game that I use my left hand to mash buttons on the keyboard while I read a book with my right hand. Snooze fest will equal cancelled accounts.
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Learn to play better than.
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Tried with a Tanker yet?
Tomorrow, or late evening if I get the chance. *shrugs* When I have the time. Funny how I prove you wrong and the only thing you can do is come up with something else to nitpick about.
LOL!
2 Defeats to complete a mission and you are telling someone ELSE to learn to play better!
FUNNIEST POST TODAY!
(not really, the BTiLC thread is actually...)
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Tomorrow, or late evening if I get the chance. *shrugs* When I have the time. Funny how I prove you wrong and the only thing you can do is come up with something else to nitpick about.
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This is in reference to another thread. You have NOT yet proven me wrong. You basically told me to stop whining and use better TACTICS because I couldn't do that mission with my lvl 13 Invul Tanker, TWICE.
So, again I say: try it with a tanker. Let's see how you do then, huh?
Controllers or Defenders have debuffs or holds they can use on Eel. Tankers, and most Scrappers, don't. No staying out of harm's way by hovering or sniping from around a corner. Nope! They HAVE TO BE RIGHT IN HIS STINKING FACE!
Good luck! Make sure to share your adventures with us, please.
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*laughs* Learn to play better than.
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How can you make such an ignorant sweeping generalization statement about me when you know nothing about the door missions I have encountered, my personal level of playing skills, or my overall gaming experience with CoH?
I guarantee you that some solo missions for Scrappers (without the benefit of a Defender's force-fields & debuff abilites) are no-win scenarios that are much better avoided than dying mutliple times to beat. Any fool can be a solo kamikaze, keep picking off mobs one-by-one while dying each time in the process, and eventually beat a mission. The point is some missions shouldn't be that hard and Statesman agrees. There shoudn't be groups of 8 to 10 yellow/orange con minions/Lts on solo missions without having the option to adjust the difficulty.
Your Eel example is poor because it is a level 7 Hollows mission that I easily soloed as well without dying (I would have completed the next Hollows Outcast mission too if it didn't require two players to deactivate two bombs simultaneously).
Wait until you get into your late teens/early twenties and try to solo as a Defender while facing the new improved Tsoo, 5th Column, Banished Pantheon, Sky Raiders, Family, and Freakshow (etc). If you are still soloing as well (or even at all), then you really have something to brag about.
Better yet, try playing a Scrapper from 1 to 30 under the new difficulty conditions to learn what it is truly like instead of implying that people who complain about the new level of difficulty are poor players, pansies, and cowards. Because at this point, it isn't about being a good player, it is about the difficulty level being too high on some missions; but, go ahead, and keep soloing, you will find that out yourself and I will have the last laugh.
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Because at this point, it isn't about being a good player, it is about the difficulty level being too high on some missions; but, go ahead, and keep soloing, you will find that out yourself and I will have the last laugh.
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No use man. MissAurora has been flaming everyone for not using the right tactics (you know - running in and out of your mission to get inspirations from your contact, running back into the elevators or out the door to heal up, stuff like that. You know, REAL tactics). She is a god-like überplayer, and will take any and every opportunity to make sure WE know that.
No use arguing with people like this.
Can't wait for her Tanker story though!
Ok, if the +1 thing is a bug, that still doesnt solve everything. The Tsoo with caltrops is a bit much, and the new modified villains do way too much damage. My defender can't even take a group of 2-3 of them without downing most of her inspirations. What happened to the hero being equal to multiple minions? I don't see that anymore.......Sure, you made steps to "fix it" but the problem still exists......These new villains do way too much damage now, something that at a low level we can not deal with, well, most of us anyways......
Purrfectly Innocent - Ice/Ice Domi
"Ice...as beautiful as it is deadly. Maybe that is why I love it so."
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LOL!
2 Defeats to complete a mission and you are telling someone ELSE to learn to play better!
FUNNIEST POST TODAY!
(not really, the BTiLC thread is actually...)
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LOL so true. I consider 1 death in a mission to be considered a failure. I have been failing a ton on my new scrapper. Since mission xp barely outweighs debt accumulated and I made him to do all the games missions I can, he's on hold till they patch or I learn how to play better. He can still street hunt just fine but that's not what I wanna do. On the plus side my higher level characters are mostly unaffected.
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Controllers or Defenders have debuffs or holds they can use on Eel. Tankers, and most Scrappers, don't. No staying out of harm's way by hovering or sniping from around a corner. Nope! They HAVE TO BE RIGHT IN HIS STINKING FACE!
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Guess you don't know anything about Defenders. Especially Force Field defenders... and I guess you didn't watch the demo I posted. Typical. FF Defenders only hold power makes the enemy completely immune to everything. Not all that great and I don't even have it yet.
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Better yet, try playing a Scrapper from 1 to 30 under the new difficulty conditions to learn what it is truly like instead of implying that people who complain about the new level of difficulty are poor players, pansies, and cowards. Because at this point, it isn't about being a good player, it is about the difficulty level being too high on some missions; but, go ahead, and keep soloing, you will find that out yourself and I will have the last laugh.
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I played a katana / regen scrapper since release. She's level 27 now. She was 23 when Issue#2 released. I've played her a few times since Issue#2 and have not had any difficulties adapting at all. And my scrapper was far from the perfect build. Hell, I had five slots in fast healing. Any uber build says don't slot fast healing at all. And I even took Gambler's Cut, the wicked attack that no uber goober would ever soil themselves with.
I played a katana scrapper for several months with gimpy damage and gimpy animations. They finally fix 'em and now I'm able to solo much better than pre-issue #2. On my blaster and my defender, I can still solo and it's a challenge now. Before, my former ff/rad defender could solo quite easilly. It was boring. The game is fun now. For all levels that I have played. Including being sk'd up into the 30's.
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(you know - running in and out of your mission to get inspirations from your contact, running back into the elevators or out the door to heal up, stuff like that. You know, REAL tactics).
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I went down the elevator once. I didn't really have to do that, I could've just lost aggro and rested on the same floor easily enough. Plenty of room to run around on that mission. I only used one set of inspirations on the boss mob of that mission when I defeated him. It would've been stupid for me to tackle the boss, use my inspirations, die, visit the hospital and not buy more inspirations on the way back.
I'm not going to play dumb... not going to lower myself to your level of ability. I used 4 healing and 4 endurance inspirations when I beat ElectricEel. I rested once as well. Guerilla tactics. Learn 'em. Or cancel your account and leave the real gamers to the game.
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LOL! 2 Defeats to complete a mission and you are telling someone ELSE to learn to play better!
FUNNIEST POST TODAY! (not really, the BTiLC thread is actually...)
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I expect to die when I'm facing a powerful foe with a character I haven't played all that much. I wasn't too sure how well I would do and so I used my old blaster tactics with three lucks and a couple enraged. It didn't work. I learned from that and got better and kicked Electric Eel's [censored]. Case closed.
Both my deaths however were for stupid reasons. First time, I decided to run up and got way too close and he knocked me down with Hurricane and stunned me. Second time I stopped to try and get a last shot off as I ran away. I had 27 health. At that level, Eel's attacks did 33 pts. I shouldn't have stopped. But oh well. It's my debt.
So yes, I do consider that mission a success. I learned from it and know how to better play my FF/Energy defender now and I beat the mission.
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I played a katana / regen scrapper since release. She's level 27 now. She was 23 when Issue#2 released. I've played her a few times since Issue#2 and have not had any difficulties adapting at all.
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A Katana Scrapper with Single Origin Enhancements and most of her defining powers going from level 23 to 27 is very easy compared to starting from scratch and going from level 1 to 20 under the current difficulty levels.
Everyone knows that once a Scrapper got SOs and their best defensive power (Invincibility or Instant Healing), CoH became cake and that levels 30 to 50 DID need a significant increase in difficuly because it was too easy for damage dealers.
But let me guess, your level 27 Katana Scrapper has never bought anything higher than Training Enhancements, has leveled from 10 to 27 doing nothing but soloing Task Force Missions, and doesn't even have a travel power and is required to run up hill regardless of which way she goes. In fact, you are such an awesome CoH player that you went from level 1 to 27 in 8 hours of playtime, right? Yeah, that's the ticket! 
Oh, almost forgot, the really really high level ambushes in really really low level zones that run around aimlessly and kill of the low level chars, really not liking that either.
Purrfectly Innocent - Ice/Ice Domi
"Ice...as beautiful as it is deadly. Maybe that is why I love it so."
First, my scrapper doesn't have Instant Healing yet. That's level 28. Second, I spent most of my time doing the Sysnapse Task Force because it was challenging. Clockworks were the bane of my scrapper because they drained endurance like mad. It made it fun. The DO's from the task force clocks were great as well. It's how I got all my SO's at level 22. *shrugs*
I played smart, saved my influence and sold the DO's at the proper shops to get the most influence I could. If you're not doing that... you're just playing stupid. I have the Electric Eel mission on my tanker now. Will post a demo later.
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Oh, almost forgot, the really really high level ambushes in really really low level zones that run around aimlessly and kill of the low level chars, really not liking that either.
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Those have been in the game since day one. Nothing new with Issue #2.
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LOL so true. I consider 1 death in a mission to be considered a failure.
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Then you have an incredibly narrow definition of failure.
Logmo
Do you do anything other than cut down other people? Ooh wait, yea you play MMORPGs like 60 hours a week. I cant say Im very interested in your EQ comparison. After all its once again irrelevant. What I said is:
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You say this game is easy compared to EQ or WOW? Yea right. Whatever. Way to just toss out stuff. This game can be hard or easy depending on how you play it.
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The point, which you COMPLETELY missed, was that thats a different game with different rules, and comparing the difficulty here to there is a non-sequitor because this game was designed with the possibility of soloing in mind, whereas EQ was not (and no, Im no EQ expert and never pretended to be). It make sense for Heroes to be more powerful than most enemies they face in this game, because that is the dynamic of this game (ever seen Spiderman take on 1 minion and loose not under any normal situation).
So I guess it comes down to how youd like to define difficulty. If you mean ability to kill 1 guy with your 1 guy, then fine, EQs tougher. I never actually argued this or claimed leveling was slower or faster or any of the stuff you really seem to want to argue about. I said that you can make the game harder or easier if you want to (see my post pg 21 if you'd like a ref). If you have a character designed to be uber then youll have to hit bigger guys, but the challenge can still be there. If you can solo +4 lvl 12 mob groups with a boss or two without a problem well then Im wrong.
Then theres stuff like this:
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Don't whine when you 6 socket end regen in your primary attacks and can't solo yellows+.
Don't whine when you're lvl 5 and expect to solo a whole group of 12 lvl 5-7 outcasts and can't.
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Um, no one did. Your arrogance is ridiculous. First off, I never claimed to be the master of enhancement slotting, but I realized pretty quickly that damage enhancements are the most useful for most attack powers (and have read the forums enough to know what some of the limitations are), and aside from people trying to do dumb things for kicks, no one comes close to 6-slotting End Regen in lower powers. A lvl 5 soloing 12 lvl 5-7 outcasts? If someone whines about this they deserve to be flamed. However the posts have nothing to do with this (how many times do I have to use the word irrelevant). Most people (myself included) who "complained" have some idea how to slot stuff. We dont like red con bosses in lower level solo missions, and some don't like the +1 minions and LTs (though Im OK with them except when combined with lots of stun and caltrops powers). You dont seem to run levels anyway based on your posts. You dont run missions, so why dump on us who do? Heck, why are you even posting here? Come on, dude, come back to reality and give your fellow CoHers a little respect. We arent the morons youd like to pretend.
Speaking of morons, you expect us to believe you ran one character from scratch to lvl 21 and another to lvl 12 in the 6 days and 12 hours since the patch release? (time calculated from release to your statement on pg 23) Youre either a huge liar or you play this game WAAAYYY too much. Im a mommas boy? Hah! You never leave the house.
While were at it, though I tried to put humor in with the fat girls analogy, it was not intended to be directed at you, though I can see how youd read it that way. I have nothing against any girl, though I will certainly admit that the roll out your 300lb girlfriend part could have been toned down. Humor often can offend someone, especially if they see it the wrong way. Well, you went off on everything else I said with ridiculous statements and worthless profanity. No sense expecting you not to bite on something that easily attacked.
Now why youd confuse a wartime protest with customer support and complaint handling I cant imagine, but as I said already, [ QUOTE ]
enough about complaint handling. You'll either learn or not.
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Anyway, if you feel like writing back blasting me, please do, but I doubt Id respond again unless you seem to be interested in focusing on what Im actually talking about, and being just a little reasonable in your statements. A few insults are fine by me, but I dont deal with people who like to pretend theyre better than everyone else if I dont have to.
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LOL so true. I consider 1 death in a mission to be considered a failure.
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Then you have an incredibly narrow definition of failure.
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No I just think my character should represent a superhero who is only defeated on rare occasion. For the most part it's been that way since beta. I only die once or twice per level not mission if that.
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No I just think my character should represent a superhero who is only defeated on rare occasion. For the most part it's been that way since beta. I only die once or twice per level not mission if that.
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See, that's where you're wrong. It's City of Heroes, not Superheroes. Even heroes have a right to bleed... face down on the asphalt. You don't die anyway. The hospital uses the teleportation grid to whisk you away just before you die and then they heal you.
Ok if 1-2 "defeats" per mission is accepable to you that's say 8-16 "defeats" per level if you complete 8 missions in a level. I'm sorry but that's just nuts. I don't see where I'm wrong and why how I've leveled without dying in the past is irrevelevent. Sorry but I look forward to the fixing of this bug and red bosses being banished from the early levels of this game. Maybe your character is not a superhero but mine is 
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These are most certainly reactions; had we seen this better on the Training Room server we would have changed each and every one.
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This probably goes without being said, but since I feel like forum ******* today I'll say it anyway:
Please let the next one stew on the test server longer. Remember, we held those protests in City Hall to get Issue 2 on TEST, not on production. IMHO, in an ideal world it wouldn't be live even now.
Despite that, you've made an awesome game, and I thank you for it. Again.