sorry, but the low end (1-20) is NOT fun now.
By
7onTest,
Posted on: 2004-09-22 06:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Yeah it really sucks when you have to attack a certain villain first so he won't hold you. Or how bout them villains with hurricane? Better get a controller to hold them
Learn to play the game without pushing buttons. It is actually quite fun.
I haven't noticed any increase in difficulty in lowend missions with a
1. newly created rad/rad defender
2. lvl 14 FF defender who SUCKS soloing but i went ahead and did some anyways
3. lvl 18 Inv/SS tanker
All these guys can solo missions now, and they're FUN instead of just tedious (except for the ff defender, still kinda tedious :P)... Before it was 'click, kill , etc etc'. Now I have to play the game.
I must be doing something wrong, because I'm having more fun than ever. Made a brand-new Inv/SS Tanker, which I had given up on pre-Issue 2 as being completely UN-fun, and leveled up to 11. 1-10 was a blast.
Look, Statesman has said over and over that there was NO intent to increase the difficulty overall, but that certain mistakes combined to make it more difficult, and those are being changed. The biggest two are a bug in removing the front-loaded missions made missions that were +1 all the way through, and a design error in giving minions various powers with a stun component. The fixed mission levels and stun being taken away from the minions is already being tested by the Devs.
Sorry, but starting the umpteenth thread about issues that have already been acknowledged and are being fixed (which a cursory check of the DEV digest would have revealed) is NOT helpful.
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Are you telling me that you don't like what they did to a group like the Outcasts? Well I for one love it ... they were telling us that that group was using the forces of nature to fight and all you had was one lil shocker and a stone boss once in a while ... now ... the changes where minions fight with Ice, fire lightning, stone ... that is nature! I really like it ...
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Uh.. read up above.. or better yet, here:
"Tried my 13 Storm/Rad Def.. can solo just as fine (if not better vs Outcasts now with Steamy Mist) and in groups I excell."
I love what they did to outcasts.. Just some of it is overboard. Yes my girlfriend plays as well and she too is having a 'blast.' She coincidently plays a DM/Inv Scrapper and a Dark/Dark Def.. both she works and adapts with in situations and actually puts cognitive thought to it. If my girlfriend who's only played one other game (Ragnarok Online) in her life can solo and group effectivly (especially as a DDD which most claim are the weakest) in CoH as it now stands, I feel sorry for all you hard core gamers and guys who have been playing all your life and are complaining on this board about the most moot of subjects.
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I like the IDEAS behind making missions stronger, but between the fact that there are alot more baddies in missions, that the low end mob got a great boos in powers (nothing like a lvl 8 baddy with lvl 18-36 powers, and crowd control befor you even get a defense for it) that minions are harder to hit now just makes lvls 1-20 feel like WORK not play. Things need to be looked at. With no pvp, no economy, litle to no items, no bases to build starting a new character was mostly my only way to escape the grind of my high lvl character. Now thats not fun either.
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Good god.
One more time: lower level difficulty was an unexpected result of boosting Nemesis powers on the high end. Trickle down boosted the Outcasts, and here we are with endless complaining.
Also, +1 mobs are being fixed.
Please.
Stop posting (about this issue).
The post-SL 20 game is still a bit tough without grouping... however:
Made a new character last night, an AR/Energy Blaster. I have not had so much fun in such a long time! By Level 4, I was using Burst, Slug, Power Thrust and Build Up. Yellow and Orange cons drain me a bit, but no deaths. It was quite a challenge to take out a +1 orange LT and 3 of his +1 yellow minions. But doable. I suspect even a fire/fire blaster, like my SL 21, would be able to handle a lot of the low-end game.
I still think a difficulty slider or choices, or reverting back to +0 mobs would be good based on either AT or SL, especially for the AT's that are known to have difficulty pulling a group apart at low level. (And I can bide my time until this is done, ,no need for them to rush out a fix that is borked.) I don't want my fun to come at the expense of my friend's, and vice versa. 
Just for the sake of argument let me throw this out. Last night me and a friend made 2 baby toons. We went through the tutorial even though we had the option not to (nice!) and got our Isolator badges. Then we each got a mission from our baby contacts and set out. Here's how it went.
Zone in to mine (was a clock mission) and take out 3 or 4 +1 clocks. As we were finishing up another group agros and, as was the norm a few weeks ago, we didn't run or retreat to regroup, we just kept fighting. Well, I almost fell and my friend did fall.
Ok, fine, take two. We zone back in, look at the group and see 2 orange lts 4 minions of the same level in a level 2 mish. We boggled at that concept for a bit, but then we made a decission. A simple decission that made everything soooo much easier. We used......tactics!
We pulled, we used our powers to greatest effect, we had a blast, we beat several more missions and we didn't die after that. Now, bug or no we had a blast. It was challenging, but not impossible. It was also the first time I'd seen the new hellion misisons, they're pretty cool.
Now for the kicker. We beat these odds with 2 controllers. Neither of us had group cc for any of it, we each had single target holds. I had a personal bubble, but han't gotten any other secondaries and he was kinetics as a secondary. If we had been 2 of any other AT it would have been so much easier, but as it was we'd keep 1 or 2 of the crowd holding it's head while the others wailed away. We'd brawl and spam our holds and I'd spam my spectral wounds as we run around to stay alive. It was a blast.
Ok time for another personal play experience. So far I made all new characters when the patched rolled out (just so I can start collecting badges and I was bored with my high level Scrapper). So I made a Dark/Dark Defender. My sister also started a new toon and made a MA/Regen Scrapper. So far we are lvl 8 now and we have not experienced any of the complaints that have been thrown about the boards for the past few days.
In fact, when we first went into the Hollows as lvl 7s, we decided to just go wild and try on whole groups of Trolls and Outcasts just by ourselves. Needless to say we beat down entire groups around the entrance without a problem. Not bad for a D/D Defender who missed his heals and a MA Scrapper who just started playing when the patch rolled out. Of course we went through Inspirations like candy (and the new method of passing Insps to other players without having to go through the trade window is pure genious, makes me a much better healer when my Heals miss but I've got like 4 Respites sitting in my inventory not doing anything usefull while my teammate is dying...that change alone has made grouping that much easier).
We also took on the base missions for the Outcasts and had no problem with the higher-power-spewing Electric Eel Boss or the other one with the Earth Powers (Bedrock?). So tell me what we must be doing wrong since we can't recreate the problems others are experiencing even with less than optimal toons. And just for comparison I also did the Electric Eel mission two more times, once with another group of 3 and I did the mission solo. I have only died once and that was because I was one-shotted by a group of 11s on my way to the Outcast base missions....but now since I just got Shadow Fall that should fix that little aggro problem.
However, I will say that I believe most of these complaints may be coming from the solo crowd, as I also tried making a Spines/Regen Scrapper and died 3 times in my first door mission. As far as I can tell, this patch made my Defenders solo better than my Blasters and Scrappers if only because I can heal myself. So end results: Solo = Probably too hard, Group = Seems a lot more fun and not nearly as hard as people are making it out to be.
Went to the Hollows yesterday...Got the Outcast bases missions...First one was easy, .80miles away, just had to dodge gangs. Second mission was WAY out in the Gultch. Got killed twice and still haven't got there. Will try again tonight...
BALANCE IS A NERF
Liberty Server
@Energy Aura and @Ill Conceived on Global
Han Solo: [laughs] Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good BLASTER at your side, kid.
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However, I will say that I believe most of these complaints may be coming from the solo crowd, as I also tried making a Spines/Regen Scrapper and died 3 times in my first door mission. As far as I can tell, this patch made my Defenders solo better than my Blasters and Scrappers if only because I can heal myself. So end results: Solo = Probably too hard, Group = Seems a lot more fun and not nearly as hard as people are making it out to be.
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HOLY MOLY.
Clearly, you have not been reading the millions of posts on this.
SOLO PLAY IS MUCH, MUCH HARDER NOW.
I LOVE TO GROUP, BUT THOSE THAT DON'T SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO FOR DOOR MISSIONS.
Does that sum it up nicely?
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Again just my opinion and no, I won't be taking off my tin foil hat.
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Lil' States is back in action !!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../lilstates.jpg
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So end results: Solo = Probably too hard, Group = Seems a lot more fun and not nearly as hard as people are making it out to be.
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Solo'ing is hard.. but whoever said it should be easy.. you know? Now grouping has it's benefit's, making it safer and now I'm starting to get a real sense of Risk v Reward (even though the reward is not an item etc). I consider the challenge and fun i'm having now as my reward.. you?
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Hehe, a bug?
You mean like, "Hey, lets make things more dificult so people have to play longer so they stick with the game longer" then "Uh Oh, they didn't like that, boy did we screw the pooch on that one", kind of bug?
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bulls eye
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Call me a cynic but I call Shenanigans on the "bug" explanation.
When you have a mob such as Outcasts or Trolls, that are ONLY low lvl mobs, what "bug" would give them more powers.
They made these mobs with these powers and I don't think they really put much thought into how it would affect the masses.
Now we hear they are working on it. I would think every mob has a pool of powers it is programmed to be able to use. Take those powers away and the "bug" is solved.
The presence of +1 and +2 mobs may be a bug, but the powers the low levels mobs are using had to be planned.
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actually thats what I m worried about myself. The "hey lets try this out" theory and I really hope I m wrong because if I m not this is not the game I should play.
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Patch #2 has many great features but is obviously not working as intended. Whole AT's changed poorly, play = work not fun. no server stability
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I dont know if you can call issues that have been known for weeks on test a bug if you still put em life anyway.....
I really enjoy all the opinions on the game being too hard or whatever 1-20, otherwise why would I read these posts,
I only want to point out that a good deal of us like the harder or whatever 1-20 now.
IMO it is closer to how it was described in the game manual.
But is should be fixed via a mission slider anyways.
All I ask is when you all choose the lower end of the slider, keep me in mind and ask me to team with you anyways sometimes.
I just hope I will be needed.
I personally don't have a problem... my friend and I both have level 5 before patch and now both level 11 after patch (played like 8 hours total) we are loving it...
I hate to say it.. but it all boils down to tactics.. I know it is a sucky answer.. but my friend and I change our style of play due to the new patch (at least we are more careful than before) and hardly ever rush into a room (well I don't anyways)
BTW: I play a defender emp/dark
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I'm sorry, but according to Statesman this is more "fun".
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I'm sorry Vegetator but he did not say that. I and Others said that.
What he said is it was not intended.
At least when you make a statment can you not be too full of it.
But still everyone knows I'm right.
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However, I will say that I believe most of these complaints may be coming from the solo crowd, as I also tried making a Spines/Regen Scrapper and died 3 times in my first door mission. As far as I can tell, this patch made my Defenders solo better than my Blasters and Scrappers if only because I can heal myself. So end results: Solo = Probably too hard, Group = Seems a lot more fun and not nearly as hard as people are making it out to be.
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HOLY MOLY.
Clearly, you have not been reading the millions of posts on this.
SOLO PLAY IS MUCH, MUCH HARDER NOW.
I LOVE TO GROUP, BUT THOSE THAT DON'T SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO FOR DOOR MISSIONS.
Does that sum it up nicely?
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Well forgive me for stating the obvious. I have read all those posts and 95% of them are just basically, "OMG TEH N3W PATCH R TEH SUXXORS!!!!SHIFT#1!!!". But even still, it's not "FORCED" grouping yet, because I can still solo but you didn't clearly read my post. I can solo absolutely fine with my dark Defender because he can heal himself. I cannot with my Scrapper without stocking up on Inspirations. With Respites I am fine, without it I die or have to spend 20-30 minutes for one mission by running back and forth and resting in between each fight. But the missions are soloable just not the way they used to be. At least they aren't impossible as fighting purples during the purple patch! I'm just giving some practical examples of my own play experience instead of just jumping on the bandwagon and complaining about things I haven't even tried yet.
mmm tried a new tanker, solo and grouped: fine (inv/ss)
blaster: fine (elec/dev)
defender: fine (ff/en)
controller: fine (mind/emp)
MA Arc:
Overload (Arc ID #405822) | Status: Final | Last Edited: 5th Nov 2010 for text fixes.
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I'm sorry Vegetator but he did not say that. I and Others said that.
What he said is it was not intended.
At least when you make a statment can you not be too full of it.
But still everyone knows I'm right.
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Statesman said prior to the release of Issue #2 that he was
going to up the difficulty to make the game "more fun" in his
opinion.
The status effects are not a bug, it was his idea of more "fun".
Now, feel free to press it further and I will rub your nose in it
some more.
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I'm sorry Vegetator but he did not say that. I and Others said that.
What he said is it was not intended.
At least when you make a statment can you not be too full of it.
But still everyone knows I'm right.
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Statesman said prior to the release of Issue #2 that he was
going to up the difficulty to make the game "more fun" in his
opinion.
The status effects are not a bug, it was his idea of more "fun".
Now, feel free to press it further and I will rub your nose in it
some more.
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I'm NOT afraid. Because I think he meant "up the difficulty" for the Higher levels. Hmph!
Put THAT in your pipe and SMOKE it!
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I have a 36 controller, 32 blaster, 24 scrapper, 22 blaster, 17 defender, 13 defender, 13 scrapper, and 7 scrapper, and many more deleted.
I play very well and know how to play. There is not much you can do when you are held or continually stunned no matter how many "tactics" you plan to use.
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All of your toons except for the blasters have access to status protection powers. Did you just skip them? Do you ever use the Discipline inspirations that drop constantly?
I can understand that the increase in status effects has surprised many people. What I don't understand is how people fail to notice that the tools to deal with them have been in the game all along.
Statesman Quote:
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Guys,
I cannot stress this enough. There was absolutely NO attempt to make that pre-20 game more difficult. The numerous +1 level mobs seen in missions are being taken out. The plethora of stunning/mezzing powers for low level mobs have been removed.
If particular changes are making something harder - let us know!
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All the Doom-Sayers can read into this all they want but I'm a Dev Digest junkie and the only complaints are coming from the pre20 group not the higher levels. Statesman was wanting to increase the difficulty of the end-game because that was where all the problems were coming from (AOE = King, other ATS are useless, etc). What we are experiencing (in the lower levels) are bugs and they are working on it so what's the problem here. Every other MMORPG I have played have run into these kinds of issues but at least the Devs are making efforts to fix the problem, and it usually gets corrected fairly quickly comparing to say...SWG? You all are free to play whatever you want but as for me I'll stick with COH and WOW until something else proves otherwise as they are my two favorites MMORPGS right now and their developers at least communicate with the player database.
I realize everyone will have their own opinion on this topic so please don't take mine as a bash to anyone elses.
I personaly enjoy the low end content and changes. I agree that at times it can be difficult, even with the tanker I started, but I like it. For me I found the game increadibly easy to solo with my other characters. I feel the +1 mobs and red bosses in missions are really making me think and plan. I can see where some AT's could have a problem with this due to limited defence and strength and I can say in their cases their dissatisfaction is justifiable. I'm sure that the bug will be worked out soon enough to help with the missions, stuns and what not, so I wouldn't worry too much.
I for one am excited about the difficulty slider. I think that will alow those who need more challange to get that, and those who find it dificult due to build or whatever to tone it down some.
While in my personal case I choose to disagree with the OP, I do say there are valid points to the argument. Just bear in mind that the bugs will be worked out as soon as they can I'm sure and well all be able to go back to enjoying the game.
Champion Server
Hiruko --Scrapper lvl 50-- katana/regen
Dream Demon--Up and coming MFWarshade
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Because I think
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And thus you lose again...
Unless, of course, you want to claim to actually know what the
man was thinking.
Otherwise you are just blowing hot air.
Care to give it another shot ?
I know you like the attention, so I'll continue to rub your face on
the ground if you want me to..
I expect bugs to happen.
I am amazed that it is taking them this long to work out the +1 mission fix. Nothing is even on test yet.
On a side note, I do think they increased mob difficulty on purpose, but when they saw the uproar/cancelled accounts, they decided to tone it down... for now.