sorry, but the low end (1-20) is NOT fun now.
By
7onTest,
Posted on: 2004-09-22 06:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
5 Stars for you!
Honestly, the Agent Mulders are getting a bit silly. Forthcoming fixes will shut them up until the next issue at least.
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5 Stars for you!
Honestly, the Agent Mulders are getting a bit silly. Forthcoming fixes will shut them up until the next issue at least.
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Well lets hope not with the next issue. I hope that the DEVS learned that when the testers tell them that something is wrong, or its too hard or any other thing they think is wrong while its still in test that they listen.
All these bugs were discussed in the test forums over and over but it still went live.
Again I'm hoping this doesn't occur too often. I like a happy community too.
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Dear, dear Vegie: Do know that Issue 2 was released with known and unknown bugs. However, you still use rather selective statements out of their overall context to support your trolling exercise.
Statesman comment 1
Statesman comment 2
There are others as well.
Valdermic on bugs... Perhaps you should consider all things carefully before you speak as if you were the authority on peoples intentions and motives.
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Your reply is both illogical and assinine...
What does it possibly prove to post after the fact quotes and
vladermic's BS on bug reporting ?
You sound smug in your post, but since you have made no point
I wonder what you are so smug about ?
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I agree the ignorance is amazing. How you can think that regardless of internal testing that things don't slip through.
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If you think that something of this magnitude "slipped" through,
you are an idiot.
And try hitting the enter key once in a while, it would make
reading your posts slightly less painful.
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I do not know this for fact for I did not play on the Test Server nor read the Training Room boards. I have "heard" that the players who DID play there /bugged the Devs about the low end bugs. The devs apparently were aware of the problems. If ONE /bug report comes through, doesn't that warrant at least a look into by the Devs? Statesman appears to be the "idea man" behind CoH so that makes HIM accountable for what is put out live.
I do echo your thoughts on finding REAL information about what went on pre-issue 2 on the test server. I have to admit that much of my ire is based upon assumptions and heresay. I may be looking for that because of my dislike of where the game is heading with all the new status items. Status items just rub me the wrong way.
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Agreed, all I'm hearing are people who claim they reported this prior to it going live. I don't remember seeing these posts or at least not in this volume. But most of these complaints are people saying that this new difficulty is a feature, what would prompt them to "bug" it if it wasn't a bug. And let's not forget the 100s of posts of people saying "Please hurry up and release Issue #2" and the Devs respond "We will when it's ready"...we have no one to blame but ourselves. What I DO remember seeing was posts about other bugs that did get fixed...not of the current situation. Again, please someone post links to posts prior to the update going live that have these issues mentioned.
Bugs are something you tend to react to. A Reactive approach to a new bug is to be expected. There are poractive measures, to be sure, but they prevent bugs at most. Even then, the most proactive measures do not ensure bug free software. Laws of unintended consequence... etc. etc.
While I was surprised that Issue 2 was released when it was, I can understand some of the reasoning: the main part of Issue 2 was working. Other things were being worked on and the natives were getting restless. Damned if you do, damned if you don't operate here as in the majority of business: You cannot please everybody at once.
But all that means diddly really. People make mistakes, it is a given, but I think the biggest mistake people make is to assume they *KNOW* what others are thinking or intend. The Thought Police are alive and kicking.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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Well lets hope not with the next issue. I hope that the DEVS learned that when the testers tell them that something is wrong, or its too hard or any other thing they think is wrong while its still in test that they listen.
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I agree. Hopefully they can resist the pressure to prematurely release Issue 3. I wonder where the pressure to release Issue 2 when they did came from the most.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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I agree the ignorance is amazing. How you can think that regardless of internal testing that things don't slip through.
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If you think that something of this magnitude "slipped" through,
you are an idiot.
And try hitting the enter key once in a while, it would make
reading your posts slightly less painful.
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I'm sorry can you please post links to the posts you did in the Testing Server prior to this going live so we can see just how much help you were to the testing process. And don't exaggerate on the "magnitude" of the situation because from what I can see it's not affecting a large percentage of the playe database and the rest of the complaints are bandwagoners who were going to cancel anyways.
And forgive my non-enter-key-ness...I didn't realize people have troulbe reading a paragraph. When was the last time you opened a book?
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Well lets hope not with the next issue. I hope that the DEVS learned that when the testers tell them that something is wrong, or its too hard or any other thing they think is wrong while its still in test that they listen.
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I agree. Hopefully they can resist the pressure to prematurely release Issue 3. I wonder where the pressure to release Issue 2 when they did came from the most.
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I'm willing to bet the same people complaining are the ones who wanted Issue #2 released ASAP so they wouldn't have to play it on the Test Server to find out what changed. But should this "Difficulty Slider" be implemented anytime soon, this entire debate on difficulty will be a moot point and we can all move on to complain about other things. I'm not above showing where something is wrong but at least where it's reasonable and open minded.
On another note, very well said in your previous post on the aspects of Beta testing and retroactive perspectives. Some people really need to be realistic about these sort of things.
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I'm sorry can you please post links to the posts you did in the Testing Server prior to this going live so we can see just how much help you were to the testing process.
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They didn't listen in beta, so what makes you think I would waste
my time trying now ?
I pay to play.. Cryptic and NCsoft get paid to test.
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When was the last time you opened a book?
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A few minutes ago, funny though, there weren't any giant run-on
sentences and the paragraphs had indentations.
Let's keep our comparisons in perspective, shall we ?
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I do not know this for fact for I did not play on the Test Server nor read the Training Room boards. I have "heard" that the players who DID play there /bugged the Devs about the low end bugs. The devs apparently were aware of the problems. If ONE /bug report comes through, doesn't that warrant at least a look into by the Devs? Statesman appears to be the "idea man" behind CoH so that makes HIM accountable for what is put out live.
I do echo your thoughts on finding REAL information about what went on pre-issue 2 on the test server. I have to admit that much of my ire is based upon assumptions and heresay. I may be looking for that because of my dislike of where the game is heading with all the new status items. Status items just rub me the wrong way.
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Agreed, all I'm hearing are people who claim they reported this prior to it going live. I don't remember seeing these posts or at least not in this volume. But most of these complaints are people saying that this new difficulty is a feature, what would prompt them to "bug" it if it wasn't a bug. And let's not forget the 100s of posts of people saying "Please hurry up and release Issue #2" and the Devs respond "We will when it's ready"...we have no one to blame but ourselves. What I DO remember seeing was posts about other bugs that did get fixed...not of the current situation. Again, please someone post links to posts prior to the update going live that have these issues mentioned.
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Here are some of the different posts in the test forum pre issue 2 launch
All missions now +1?
The Hollows - Some Constructive Feedback
Rikti Change in Update #2
So, I went out and tried those new Rikti...
Outcasts should NOT get Hurricane
12 things that should be reconsidered
Statesman - why the changes to pre-L25 difficulty?
thought about the increased difficulty of missions
And this is most likely not all of them but from what I can see its not like nobody said anything. It was tested and found to be an issue and from the looks of it ignored until after launch.
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But should this "Difficulty Slider" be implemented anytime soon, this entire debate on difficulty will be a moot point and we can all move on to complain about other things.
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Hate to burst your bubble on that one, but Statesman has
directly said that he cannot offer any time frame for a difficulty
slider.
Given the amount of time required to code and test the feature it
will be months before any difficulty slider sees the light of
day.
I can see the difficulty slider now.
On one end is killing swarms of gears for 1xp each, and the other end is playing hide the broomstick with The Emmisary of Shadows, with the present missions in between lol
I imagine the difficulty slider will allow you to UP the difficulty as well as lower it. Just how that will be manifested is another issue (Higher levels? More Villains? etc...).
As for Testing: Many eyes are better than fewer, so having a test server is a benefit not only to the Developers but the players as well. Besides, a lot of people enjoy seeing how something will/should effect them before it goes live.
The main thing that "annoys" me about Vegie and others, is that they make assumptions about what the devs think. If there were cries about something and it was completely ignored and never addressed, maybe then you could say "they don't care", but in reality you cannot, even with the +1 business.
Case in point: People are also assuming the +1 mission issue is a simple fix. I may not be and that they knew about it before release and continue to know about without it being fixed (but working on it according to them) may indicate it is a more complicated issue than just: "Doh! Let me recode that from +1 to 0."
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
Actually, the current "poor man's" difficulty slider when in a team is to have one or two drop from the team before entering the mission and then rejoin. Of course, that only lowers the difficulty rather than increase it.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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I agree the ignorance is amazing. How you can think that regardless of internal testing that things don't slip through.
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If you think that something of this magnitude "slipped" through,
you are an idiot.
And try hitting the enter key once in a while, it would make
reading your posts slightly less painful.
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I'm sorry can you please post links to the posts you did in the Testing Server prior to this going live so we can see just how much help you were to the testing process. And don't exaggerate on the "magnitude" of the situation because from what I can see it's not affecting a large percentage of the playe database and the rest of the complaints are bandwagoners who were going to cancel anyways.
And forgive my non-enter-key-ness...I didn't realize people have troulbe reading a paragraph. When was the last time you opened a book?
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Well, let me say that this 1% of the minority wants it fixed.
I have played many alt's and have gotten 4 above 25 and I have tried to experience as many aspects of the game as possible.
Today I logged on with my 17 Scrapper for the first time since Update 2 went live, and I will not log back on with him until the difficulty settings are fixed.
Please stop speaking for the "majority", you are not it.
Head Stalker of the CuppaJo Fanclub.
and
The Quite, Quite Mad Leader of
People's Front of Paragon
"Paragonian People's Front?...SPLITTERS!"
So FusionForce shouldn't talk like he knows the inside of Statesman's head BUT YOU CAN?!?!! Gee Veg since you believe yourself to be sooo intellectually superior to anyone who disagrees with you can you spell hypocrite for me? You are the biggest blowhard here and you know it. You say you know the score but canNOT back up your claims with one shred of evidence other than your opinion. So please go ahead and spout your rhetoric, call me a few names and insult my breeding or something.
Steatesman stated several times that this was not intentional and even when someone produces the quotes(something you conveniently skipped doing when YOU quoted Statesman) you still come up with some lame excuse for why you are right. "Those quotes were after the fact" Come on man of course they are....you don't apologize for a mistake BEFORE you make it because you didn't know it was a mistake.
Oh and unless you have a webcam in Statesman's office and know for a FACT just WHAT was tested internally before it made it to the test server I would stop making that arguement because YOU DON"T ACTUALLY KNOW!
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Case in point: you are also assuming the +1 mission issue is a simple fix. I may not be and that they knew about it before release and continue to know about without it being fixed (but working on it according to them) may indicate it is a more complicated issue than just: "Doh! Let me recode that from +1 to 0."
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+1 mobs aside, the low level mob status effects went live with
full knowledge of the devs.
And your assumptions regarding the code are no more valid than
the assumptions that they let it go live on purpose.
No matter how much you want to believe, there is far more
evidence that they let it go live knowing exactly was was up than
there is for the "oops, it's a bug" scenario.
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I imagine the difficulty slider will allow you to UP the difficulty as well as lower it. Just how that will be manifested is another issue (Higher levels? More Villains? etc...).
As for Testing: Many eyes are better than fewer, so having a test server is a benefit not only to the Developers but the players as well. Besides, a lot of people enjoy seeing how something will/should effect them before it goes live.
The main thing that "annoys" me about Vegie and others, is that they make assumptions about what the devs think. If there were cries about something and it was completely ignored and never addressed, maybe then you could say "they don't care", but in reality you cannot, even with the +1 business.
Case in point: People are also assuming the +1 mission issue is a simple fix. I may not be and that they knew about it before release and continue to know about without it being fixed (but working on it according to them) may indicate it is a more complicated issue than just: "Doh! Let me recode that from +1 to 0."
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Read my previous post. The +1 issue was addressed by testers before launch and sense nothing was mentioned by the DEVs all we can assume is a) they read the tester forums and they ignored the issue or b) they didn't read the tester forums or c)it was working as intended and the DEVs are now just telling us its a bug to keep us from thinking it was intended.
Stop slurping, fanboy.
You go on believing in "mistakes"...
I'll stick to what I know about how many servers that update
crossed before it ever got anywhere near the player test server.
You assume to much Vegie.
I never said they said: "oops, it's a bug" after letting it go live. What I am saying is you assume their intentions and they let Issue 2 go live before it's time. I, personally, would not have done so till more of the bugs were addressed. Nor was I putting forth my "assumption" about the code as if it were any more valid than anybodies elses. I put it out there to remind people that there is more than one explanation as to what might be going on.
Until you get access to the inner sanctums of Cryptic Studios and NCSoft, don't talk as if you *know*.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
Stop blowing smoke Troll!
You stick to your misguided beliefs that EVERYONE is out to get YOU and I will stick to looking at the DEV team's past track record and have a little faith that not everything that goes wrong is some secret conspiracy.
You know they have drugs for your paranoia now, right Veg?
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I'm sorry can you please post links to the posts you did in the Testing Server prior to this going live so we can see just how much help you were to the testing process.
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They didn't listen in beta, so what makes you think I would waste
my time trying now ?
I pay to play.. Cryptic and NCsoft get paid to test.
You have no one to blame but yourself then. Again you have no concept of how beta testing works and if you expect bugs not to happen then I suggest you stick with console games...oh wait nevermind that usually happens in those too except without any way to patch them.
On that point sell your computer and stick to reading your books with properly formatted indents and sentence structure....but beware of the misprint materials because something got by the editing department.
On the topic of the Difficulty Slider, I expect we have awhile before that is put in the game but at least it's coming. In the meantime they will fix what they have said they will and for future reference a Difficulty Slider would balance any upcoming balancing issues concerning difficulties at any level..at least where missions are concerned.
As far as the list of posts showing problems pre-live some of those aren't very clear of the problems. Actually that first one has the third poster stating the Difficulty Slider idea and I know that wasn't mentioned until after the Update went Live. The rest refer to things already fixed such as the Hollows and Rikti problems. Point being I don't believe there was this "huge" clarification on the present issue prior to the live launch.
And it makes since, a larger playerbase will be able to find more bugs than the Testing Server community and twice as many more than internal Testing. What bothers me is all these complaints aren't even bothering to accept the facts that this will be fixed, they are just complaining for the sake of complaining.
I put up with posts like these from other MMORPGs, lets at least try to be constructive than believing every Gaming Company out there has some deep hatred for it's gamers to purposily ruin the games they play (all except for SOE, they are the devil!!)
Well by Ashey's links it is a fact that the devs definately knew about both the +1 and the upped powers pre-release.
I have no clue about how easy it is to fix, my only point was that the upped powers on a type of mob that ONLY appears in the low levels cannot honestly be a bug.
Power sets don't just make themselves and slip in unnoticed. If so, it would seem to be an easy fix to delete those powers from the mobs chosen pool of abilities.
But I am not a programmer so cannot say how easy the fix would be as a fact, however, this is one of those fixes that would appear to be a no brainer.
There should be no cascading effects from this type of problem as with others. Again, the +1 situation aside.
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The ignorance of the gaming populace never ceases to amaze me.
I will reiterate in the hopes of penetrating your neutronium skulls:
Issue #2 ran on internal test servers LONG before any of you
saw it on the player test server.
They knew exactly what they had when they released it.
Now you go on believing it was a "bug" and I will go on believing
that Statesman knew exactly what he had when he published.
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Dear, dear Vegie: Do know that Issue 2 was released with known and unknown bugs. However, you still use rather selective statements out of their overall context to support your trolling exercise.
Statesman comment 1
Statesman comment 2
There are others as well.
Valdermic on bugs... Perhaps you should consider all things carefully before you speak as if you were the authority on peoples intentions and motives.
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Again what the problem is the difference of being reactive vs proactive. It was mentioned for weeks before it went live about the difficulty on the low end. With no responses from the DEVs about it. At least from what I can see. So if this was a bug and mistake then it was one through ignorance of what the testers were telling them.