Be realistic people, please! There is a huge advantage to being in a well organized group. Everyone who has grouped sees this. My DM/DA scrapper was paired up with a ILL/FF controller yesterday, and we stormrolled through Terra Volta, when my scrapper alone couldn't have killed half of those foes by himself. What does this mean? It means that it is virtually impossible to design a foe that is challenging and difficult for a team of players and yet also soloable, unless you are going to massively reduce the level of the foe for the solo player (like 3 levels less than for a group). Personally, I have no problem with setting certain foes to only be team-able. I was soloing the mission against Dr. Vahzilok, only to discover that he healed at too fast a rate for me to take him down solo. I ran outside, shouted out "I've got Dr. Vahzilok alone in here, any one free to help me take him down?", and sure enough I had a handly little team ready to go in in seconds. Very fun for everyone (who doesn't like to take down an arch-villain?) including me. What exactly is the problem again?
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The problem is that the great soloers.... are also great in groups! 
A few builds get the best of both worlds, the rest... not so much.
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Actually, I think it more accurate to say the great solo AT's become awesome in groups. My Blaster only really shines, I mean becomes a real force of destruction, when he has a meat shield/controller and buffing defender in his group. There is no doubt he does not need a group to blast villains, but he does so much, much better when he is in one. Simple as that.
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I was soloing the mission against Dr. Vahzilok, only to discover that he healed at too fast a rate for me to take him down solo. I ran outside, shouted out "I've got Dr. Vahzilok alone in here, any one free to help me take him down?", and sure enough I had a handly little team ready to go in in seconds. Very fun for everyone (who doesn't like to take down an arch-villain?) including me. What exactly is the problem again?
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heh, What i did was complete the requirements for the mission before taking on Dr. Vaz. When i discoverred that i couldn't deal damage fast enough to take him, basically a Stalemate, I "Mission Completed" out of there.
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I just completed the Envoy of Shadows story arc (level 35 - 40) last night.
There is NO WAY any AT can solo the Envoy (ArchVillian).
We had 2 Fire blasters, an energy blaster, a fire/kinetics controller and an empath defender and we still had a major battle to take this thing down. Fire imps were useless as they were slaughtered as fast as they could be put out (and this is pre-nerf). This COT Behemoth has 11,000 hit points + dark shroud + regeneration. If anyone thinks they can solo this, I'd love to hear how.
After 40 there are many more missions with ArchVillians in them. So if you want to do all of your story arcs, starting in your late 30s through level 50, you will need to put together a team.
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saying there is no way is an assumption on your part on this one. An assumption that you are incorrect about. Envoy is quite soloable by a few ATs. I can think of one off hand, until the fix with episode 2
Cheers,
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I'd love to "skip it" If it wasn't for the fact that the "problem" missions are inside story arcs. "Skipping it" would mean, before long, total cessation of door missions. I hate street sweeping. I'd gladly "skip" AV missions, given a choice. Once you're already in the story arc though, that arc slot, and that contact are now completely tied up. Also, it's not always mentioned that there will be an AV present in THAT particular mission.
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I think its pretty clear that Statesman did mention if you cannot solo a mission that street sweeping is always an option. Seeing that, it does sound like he wants some content to be done with a group. 
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
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Statesman sez:
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What isn't acceptable right now is that some Archetypes solo slowly AND aren't so needed in groups. And that's what I'm focused on at the moment.
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I'm not sure how gutting Phantom Army makes Illusion Controllers able to solo faster OR makes us more needed in groups.
I very seriously doubt I would be able to do it with the smoke and imp fixes. Mostly though because the imps won't put out enough damage to get past his heal. With the hit point change, it would be easy to keep them alive (being an Empath .. if I can keep 7 heroes alive, I can keep the imps alive too .. ).
Statesman, it'd help if groups didn't just flat-out suck to begin with. It doesn't matter how helpful controllers and defenders are to groups if groups get less XP than soloers.
Seriously, that's a huge problem. If teh game is going to let soloing be not just viable, but at least as good as grouping, eventually there will be no groups. It's too hard logistically to make a good group, and takes too much of an investment, for it to ever be worthwhile if the xp ends up being the same as a solo player.
We'll end up w/ a few groups made up of SG mates, and a bunch of solo players trying to get buy.
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I'd love to "skip it" If it wasn't for the fact that the "problem" missions are inside story arcs. "Skipping it" would mean, before long, total cessation of door missions. I hate street sweeping. I'd gladly "skip" AV missions, given a choice. Once you're already in the story arc though, that arc slot, and that contact are now completely tied up. Also, it's not always mentioned that there will be an AV present in THAT particular mission.
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I think its pretty clear that Statesman did mention if you cannot solo a mission that street sweeping is always an option. Seeing that, it does sound like he wants some content to be done with a group.
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As I mentioned, I despise street sweeping. If it comes to the point where I actually do get stuck with no missions apart from street sweeping, I suppose I can always cancel billing on my account and come back when things change, if ever.
For the moment, my RL friends and I have been able to help each other with AV encounters when necessary, when that becomes unworkable, I have no problem with walking away. Putting my free time at the mercy of strangers is something that I will NEVER pay to do again. Had more than enough of that with the other games I played.
Statesman, I really would like to hear your opinion on damgage versus support.
Damage stacks. That is, solo classes like scrappers and blasters combined can bring quick kills to a group that rakes in the exp.
Yet these classes, blasters and scrappers, also solo better than any class (save for fire tankers and fire controllers).
So these guys stack together better than any of the classes, but they also solo the best.
Why shouldn't emp defenders be the best groupers? If I could say anything in one sentence it would be that. So much is dependent upon damage in this game, well, its just outta whack. We're the only class who has a half our stuff other only.
I'm not saying defenders are useless, no. We have our role. But do you honestly think leveling a defender is the same as leveling a scrapper? I mean, come on.
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This is closer to the spirit of my statement - but the crux here is "decent rate of speed." Some Archetypes do it faster than others. Controllers, and to a degree Defenders & Tankers, solo slowly. That's totally acceptable.
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Totally acceptable? To whom? Not the players.
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To his customers it will be. If its not acceptable to you, then you don't have to be a customer. Its perfectly acceptable for you to find a system you like better.
This isn't a flame, just a fact.
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I was soloing the mission against Dr. Vahzilok, only to discover that he healed at too fast a rate for me to take him down solo. I ran outside, shouted out "I've got Dr. Vahzilok alone in here, any one free to help me take him down?", and sure enough I had a handly little team ready to go in in seconds. Very fun for everyone (who doesn't like to take down an arch-villain?) including me. What exactly is the problem again?
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heh, What i did was complete the requirements for the mission before taking on Dr. Vaz. When i discoverred that i couldn't deal damage fast enough to take him, basically a Stalemate, I "Mission Completed" out of there.
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But this is an even worse example by the way... Killing Dr. V is NOT required to finish that mission or arc. He's PURELY optional. All you have to do is tag 10 body bags and you can solo that mission in around 5 minutes using any kind of stealth... Sure you get a nice SO for killing him, but its completely optional.
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I just completed the Envoy of Shadows story arc (level 35 - 40) last night.
There is NO WAY any AT can solo the Envoy (ArchVillian).
We had 2 Fire blasters, an energy blaster, a fire/kinetics controller and an empath defender and we still had a major battle to take this thing down. Fire imps were useless as they were slaughtered as fast as they could be put out (and this is pre-nerf). This COT Behemoth has 11,000 hit points + dark shroud + regeneration. If anyone thinks they can solo this, I'd love to hear how.
After 40 there are many more missions with ArchVillians in them. So if you want to do all of your story arcs, starting in your late 30s through level 50, you will need to put together a team.
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saying there is no way is an assumption on your part on this one. An assumption that you are incorrect about. Envoy is quite soloable by a few ATs. I can think of one off hand, until the fix with episode 2
Cheers,
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I "assume" from your post that you know the Envoy can be solo'd because you solo'd him with your illusion controller.
Just curious...was the Envoy even con to you at the time?
Also can you share some of the few other ATs you know can solo an even con Envoy?
Thanks
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Statesman, it'd help if groups didn't just flat-out suck to begin with. It doesn't matter how helpful controllers and defenders are to groups if groups get less XP than soloers.
Seriously, that's a huge problem. If teh game is going to let soloing be not just viable, but at least as good as grouping, eventually there will be no groups. It's too hard logistically to make a good group, and takes too much of an investment, for it to ever be worthwhile if the xp ends up being the same as a solo player.
We'll end up w/ a few groups made up of SG mates, and a bunch of solo players trying to get buy.
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Groups do not get less XP, maybe for one single enemy but the mission is spawned with a greater amount of enemies. If I solo a mission, I maybe kill 25-30 enemies, its mostly looking around, but if I have a group, that same mission has 25-30 enemies just in a mob. so instead of the 3 I find usually on a solo that I get about 200 for apiece, I get 25-30 that give me about 50-70 and maybe some Lt and bosses thrown in there. The XP is infinitely better.
I'm not flaming you, I just really don't see how solo is more XP because it is not by any means even comparable.
You just flat-out don't understand the game. Not a flame, you just don't.
First, missions suck for XP. So any argument in favor of groups that starts w/ "but missions are great! Weee" is pointless. Even if you're mission is in the same zone, you lose more XP travelling there than you can possibly make up with some uber group there.
Second, for comparison, I often go to a mission zone solo and immediately form a team with as many lunkheads as I can find. DOn't care who. I open the door, then tell them all they're welcome to come along, or just get xp, or quit. I don't care, b/c I can solo the mission nearly as quickly as I can do it with their help.
So you don't understand the game. Grouping for missions is pointless. Hopefully the mission difficulty slider and mob hp/xp change will make up for that. We'll see.
Second, even when it comes to missions, you need to
(1) find a group (which takes a long time once you hit the 20's);
(2) see what they want to do, and maybe go back to 1 if they want to streetsweep, are the wrong level or AT mix, or whatever;
(3) go the mission and finish it, getting at best as much XP as a hazard zone would give for that amount of time;
(4) figure out who's done and probably going back to (1);
Logistically, even if missions made sense, missions with a group still don't. The "group XP" bonus sucks so bad that it hardly compensates for the time spent looking for teammates, let alone the suckiness of finding missions or appropriate opponents for your group.
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Statesman, it'd help if groups didn't just flat-out suck to begin with. It doesn't matter how helpful controllers and defenders are to groups if groups get less XP than soloers.
Seriously, that's a huge problem. If teh game is going to let soloing be not just viable, but at least as good as grouping, eventually there will be no groups. It's too hard logistically to make a good group, and takes too much of an investment, for it to ever be worthwhile if the xp ends up being the same as a solo player.
We'll end up w/ a few groups made up of SG mates, and a bunch of solo players trying to get buy.
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This is a really good design puzzle.
If soloing is more profitable xp wise, more people will do it, and some people may have trouble getting groups.
If grouping is more profitable, more people will do that, and soloers will perceive the game as another 'forced grouping' game.
If they are equal, soloing may still win because it's easy, whereas grouping may win because of the community.
Besides, individual builds, even within the same archetype (even within the same power sets) solo or group better than others (and always will).
...doesn't it all come down to personal preference in the end?
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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What isn't acceptable right now is that some Archetypes solo slowly AND aren't so needed in groups. And that's what I'm focused on at the moment.
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Hope you're studying Positron's TF very carefully then. A lot of people seem to think it's an Accident that Positron's is so flippin hard and actually goes faster, infact success pretty much hinges on it, having atleast 3/5's of your group make-up be Defensive/Support AT's. It's also the TF where Scrappers have the hardest time and Blasters who play anything but FireSupport endup face-down on the floor 10x times more than they hear the Dinging sound.
The Arch Villians are cool and All, but nothing can compare to a TF where just about everyone in the group is Amazed everytime they beat a Mission without dieing constantly.
Whatever you guys did with Positrons, whether accidental or not, should really be applied to the 25+ game. Not to mention a lot more TF's that are only half as long as current TF's so that Casual players can get in on that action too without such a heavy Timesink gating them off from it.
Let's first dispel a myth about XP and groups. Grouping gives you bonus XP...here's the exact numbers (in an example).
In missions, and for that matter, zones, spawn sizes are dependent upon team size. In zones, there's some variabilities, as I'll note below.
The most base level of balance is that 3 minions=1 hero.
So here's a matchup of level 20 heroes and level 20 minions.
1 hero - 3 minions. Hero receives 120 xp.
4 heroes - 12 minions. Each hero receives 192 xp.
8 heroes - 24 minions. Each hero receives 210 xp.
Zones are different than missions because they are broken down into 3 categories: city, hazard & trial. City zones spawn mobs designed for 1 to 3 heroes, hazard zones spawn things for 3 to 5 heroes, and trail zones spawns mobs designed for 5 to 8 heroes.
So, in street sweeping, we've noticed that large groups (say 5 or more) going around city zones - and then complaining that group XP isn't good. When, quite frankly, these groups are street sweeping in areas that don't have anything to challenge a group that size. Risk = reward. And because there's less risk, they don't get as much XP. But if the same group were to go into a Hazard Zone, they'd find larger spawns, and reap the benefit of the group XP bonus.
Note - missions scale to the team size. There is sometimes a delay in when the mob sizes scale up to a new size team....
Ah - and as for the argument that mission XP "sucks." Yes, you do reap less XP/minute if you simply travel from your contact immediately to your mission door (which tends to be player behavior). However, if you fight some spawns on the way - and finish the mission with the new XP rewards - I think you'll find that missions are much, much more competitive XP wise.
Oh - and one other thing. The vast, vast majority of players at any given time are on missions. XP or not - it's the most popular part of the game.
When Statesman puts the smackdown, he puts the SMACKDOWN. 
I personally been several groups... you just have to pick your fights (street sweep), but we do mission in groups and get a whole lot more exp (than solo) at least for me)
Also... if you have a group of 12s (say 6) you want to fight like 15s or a bunch of 14s and guess what? the exp are rolling in (assuming you organize your fight) it is a lot of fun.
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Risk = reward.
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That said, can you CONFIRM that monster XP has been given a tremendous boost?
On the live servers- killing an even level monster is FAR more risky than a boss. They take considerable time to take down, about as long as fighting 5 or more bosses. Yet, they were yeilding the same XP as 2 bosses.
Has this been fixed? If it hasn't, you will continue to see those monster islands off Peregrine untouched save for curious tourist heroes.
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However, if you fight some spawns on the way - and finish the mission with the new XP rewards - I think you'll find that missions are much, much more competitive XP wise.
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What exactly do you fight "on the way" when you have a contact in IP at level 28 that sends you to Kings Row or Skyway?
I don't think your numbers are correct, though it is possible I am not understanding them.
Currently the xp gained for defeating 1 mob decreases as you add people to the team. This is supposed to be offset by the added team members allowing the team to fight tougher mobs and more of them. Great theory, but it doesn't work.
And you can thank your complete and utter disaster, 'Vision' inspired purple patch.
The xp drops off so fast once you add that 4rth person to the team that there aren't enough mobs to fight to overcome that group xp penalty. It only gets worse as you add the 5th thru 8th. Pre-purple patch you could keep stepping up the difficulty of the mobs, post purple patch you (yes, you Statesman) have told all players that they shall not fight +5 and higher mobs.
So what is the players response? No large teams because the xp sucks rocks because the team cannot continue to fight harder and harder mobs. People solo and duo with the occassional trio for the best xp.
Congratulations, in the most bass ackwards way possible you succeded with the purple patch. You slowed leveling to a crawl with large teams. But that purple patch bred the problems you are now addressing with nerfs. Please just admit you made a rookie mistake and roll the purple patch all the way out. Allow players to form large teams to fight deep purple mobs.
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The most base level of balance is that 3 minions=1 hero.
So here's a matchup of level 20 heroes and level 20 minions.
1 hero - 3 minions. Hero receives 120 xp.
4 heroes - 12 minions. Each hero receives 192 xp.
8 heroes - 24 minions. Each hero receives 210 xp.
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So, that means that a team of 4 gets a 60% XP bonus and a team of 8 gets a 75% XP bonus? If so, that's huge! Excellent.
Thanks for the info, Stateman. But (there's always a big 'but' isn't there?) could you simply give us the XP bonus percentage breakdown, assuming there is one. If the percentage isn't constant (e.g. +50% for 3, +60% for 4, etc.) but varies according to level of team and/or mobs, I can accept that. I'd just like to know what the percentages are if it can be easily stated.
Thanks again.
Dwimble
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The Statesman has stated, recently, that everything in CoH should be soloable for every AT.
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That is NOT what I said. Every Archetype can solo. Everything? Certainly not. Every Archetype, if they don't feel like teaming up, can at least go out and fight crime on the city streets. Many missions are solo-able - but not EVERY mission.
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It should be stated that Statesman likely meant even-con minions, in reasonable numbers, and not Archvillains, should be soloable by all ATs at a decent rate of speed.
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This is closer to the spirit of my statement - but the crux here is "decent rate of speed." Some Archetypes do it faster than others. Controllers, and to a degree Defenders & Tankers, solo slowly. That's totally acceptable.
What isn't acceptable right now is that some Archetypes solo slowly AND aren't so needed in groups. And that's what I'm focused on at the moment.
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oh SNAP