Valari

You should find the paper about MUD whimping and make sure Cryptic reads it

First, it isn't a possible lie, it is a lie

I would have thought that making a factual post to refute someone elses blatant lie of a post would lend me credibility and remove his.

Welcome to reality

That is how I understand the proposed changes, and provided the purple patch does not change (+5 and up are impossible to kill) under the new system then I am all for it.

Whatever allows people to still solo at the same rate, if they choose to, AND allows large teams to form and be able to take on challenging fights is what I want. I believe this is the intent of Statesmans posts.

If I'm wrong, then I don't yet understand what has been proposed and I don't know if I will like it or not.

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Everyone knows your full of it

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Hello. I'm the center of the universe. I don't agree with you, so "everyone" must know you're full of it.

This thread was relatively readable until you got here, Val. As for "credibility," who are you and why do you have any?

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In this instance, I am someone who has done the testing and followed along with how mine and others tests mirror the numbers posted by the Devs concerning the purple patch.

It is impossible for someone to solo mobs that are +6 their level. Bladewraith claimed to be able to do so (in this thread and another). It is impossible. When your powers are 15% effective vs a mobs power that is 150% effective, you can't solo them. That is just a fact of the game since the purple patch. I didn't make it that way, Cryptic did. How do you take someone seriously of give them any credence to what they say when they post a blatant lie?

That is why I have credibility and Bladewraith doesn't. My post is backed up by facts, Bladewraiths isn't. He has been offered the chance to prove himself to be above the game mechanics but instead chooses not to.

The thread is still readable though, god bless huked on fonix!

You don't solo in PI at level 35, you aren't above the game mechanics that prevent it.

But I digress. Everyone knows your full of it so I'll leave you to your discussion

I know it is a typo in your post, but I still laughed out loud when I read "quick kill ***". I really don't know why, I just found it extremely funny.

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Just because they are "minions" doesn't mean, by any stretch, that they aren't as strong as you are... Now, the term "even con minion" will be more in line with actually taking on soemone almost as strong as you...hence the "even con".

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You do know that Statesman has already said it should be 3 minions = 1 hero don't you?

BTW, I am still waiting for that video of you taking on those +6 mobs. You have zero credibility because you can't seem to tell the truth and refuse to research any of your answers. Until you learn that other people can fact check your stupid *** posts, you might want to refrain from making any posts.

You are correct PainGod. And that is how I see them as well. Any type of spawn (boss,lt,minion composition) that you find in a trial zone is also found in a hazard zone.

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The purple patch will never be irrelevant until it is removed. Shifting everything downward is removing the purple patch indirectly. Rather then having to essentially redo the game, wouldn't it just be easier to leave the current xp cap ingame and remove the purple patch?

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Semantics. On the same note, you can consider it making the purple patch worse.

He aready answered your question. Easier? Assuredly. Good for the game? Hell no.

PP isn't going away, Don Quixote.

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If I understand what Statesman wants to do (and I am just using these terms to illustrate the idea):

Green cons will be made as tough as yellow cons now. Green cons will be worth as much xp as a yellow con is now. Apply this shift across all the cons.

If the purple patch remains the same as it is now (+5 your level are essentially unkillable) in the context of the proposed system, the purple patch is indirectly removed. It isn't semantics, it would be a fact. Players who wanted to solo would be fighting green and blues and advancing at the same rate as they are now. BUT, a large team could be formed to tackle orange and red con mobs.

If I understood correctly, I am all for it. I am all for anything that allows players to form large teams and engage in challenging fights. That can't currently happen because of the purple patch but it looks like the new system would allow for it.

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Good lord, there is no hope.

Atlas Park is a CITY ZONE. You even said that in your post.

Now reread what I posted, I am comparing a hazard zone (perez et al.) vs what you have called a hazard zone (faultline). There is no difference between a hazard zone and a trial zone other then symantics.

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He's telling you that the three zone types, of which he gave you examples, have increasingly large spawn sizes.

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I know what he is telling me. I also know it isn't true. You don't get larger spawns in a hazard zone then you get in a trial zone, or vice versa. A trial/hazard zone have much larger spawns then a city zone. We all know that.


Edit: I just saw Statesman next post. I don't see a difference between the zones, spawn size or difficulty wise. Except for Vahz in faultline, those are frikken nasty.

The purple patch will never be irrelevant until it is removed. Shifting everything downward is removing the purple patch indirectly. Rather then having to essentially redo the game, wouldn't it just be easier to leave the current xp cap ingame and remove the purple patch?

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You can call them what you like, but they are no different then what we have agreed is a hazard zone. The spawn sizes are no different for a single person then for an 8 person team. I checked that today just to be sure I hadn't missed anything.

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Nope. Go to Atlas Park. Count the number of foes in a spawn. Go to Faultline. Count the number of spawns. Atlas Park - city zone. Faultline - Trial Zone.

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Good lord, there is no hope.

Atlas Park is a CITY ZONE. You even said that in your post.

Now reread what I posted, I am comparing a hazard zone (perez et al.) vs what you have called a hazard zone (faultline). There is no difference between a hazard zone and a trial zone other then symantics.

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L36-40: 1 Hero = 20 minions
L41-45: 1 Hero = 25 minons
L46-50: 1 Hero = 30 minons


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Under this scenario, a team of 8 heroes would be facing 240 minions in a single mission room. I don't need to point out that 1) the rooms aren't big enough for this and 2) most video cards aren't good enough for this. You'd end up with exactly what we have now - small groups hunting massive spawns, while the larger groups are penalized because there's nothing challenging enough for them.

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I bolded the part in his reply I find important.

He just spend an entire thread repeating over and over that there is no group penalty, and instructing players to find bigger groups of harder mobs.

Could it be that he gets it now? I hope so. And I certainly hope that he realizes that removing the purple patch completely would clear this problem up as well as many others.

I have now seen a few posts that tout Faultline as a trial zone, along with Terra Volta.

You can call them what you like, but they are no different then what we have agreed is a hazard zone. The spawn sizes are no different for a single person then for an 8 person team. I checked that today just to be sure I hadn't missed anything.

Symantics aside, there is zero difference between a hazard zone and a trial zone.

Solution number 1 sucks. It nerfs the hell out of the players in response to a Dev created problem.

Solution number 2 would be fine with me. Overall, it isn't the xp that concerns me most. It is the complete and total lack of challenging fights. Without the ability to take on tougher mobs (+5 and up) there is no reason to team. Large teams were the most fun aspect of CoH for me.

Solution number 3 would be my ideal situation, though I understand I am likely in the small minority here. I had always found the replay value to be very high in CoH. Different ways to play between AT's as well as difference within an AT based on power set selections. I would like to be able to level up many different kinds of characters while fighting in large teams.

Solution 4 is fat nerf if not implemented correctly. Basicly it would require shifting all the mobs down in level without changing their HP or powers or xp rewarded. That wouldn't bother me (if combined with the removal of the purple patch) because it would allow for decent xp combined with challenging fights. The Con of the mob is meaningless in this case.


After reading Statesmans posts on this subject I am convinced he doesn't have the foggiest idea about how CoH works. It isn't really his fault, he doesn't have the hours to play that other players do. The scary thing is that he does or will not recognize this shortcoming. He seems hell bent for leather to push forward with all these nerfs to solve problems he created with the purple patch. It would be a good thing for CoH if he woke up and realized the purple patch is the root cause of most of the problems. Roll that infernal patch out and let the good times roll in!

And I heard they aren't, so what does that prove?

There aren't currently 2 trial zones in CoH. That's it. We got a slew of hazard zones though.

My proposed solution is to remove the purple patch from the game, thus restoring the gameplay at release.

It will allow players to pick their own battles. It will once again allow for the creation of large teams to fight tough mobs.

The purple patch has wrecked this game.

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Just so that I'm clear - the larger the group, the larger the spawn. The problem is not the "purple patch" - the problem is that players are approaching MOB spawns that are simply too small for their group.

Oh - low level trials - Sewers (upper). Faultline.

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I have never, ever heard of a trial in faultline. Not from any of the hundreds of players I have played with at all levels of this game. I think this may be the first mention of a trial in faultline in the history of CoH.


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And apparently you're not aware that Faultline itself is a TRIALZONE. It's even listed as such on quite a few sites...along with PP, Boom, etc...

example

example 2

Perhaps getting the sarcasm out of your text/voice people and quit hammering Statesman like he's the troll instead of you all, might actually do some good if you quit coming across as the way you are right now.

There is nothing wrong with stating your opinion, there is something wrong with how you say it.

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Perhaps if you learned the difference between a trial zone and a hazard zone you could chime in

Faultline is a hazard zone. Just like Perez and Boomtown and Dark Astoria and the Sewer Network and the Abandoned Sewer Network and the Rikti Crash Site.

The Sewer Trial zone is located through a door found in the center of the abandoned sewers. You get a mission from a lady in Founders Falls to kill 150 Rikti, and for that you get a code to the door. Use the computer by the door to start the mission and allow the team access to the Sewer Trial Zone. There is another trial zone, it is where you fight Hamidon.

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Here are the cliff notes. The xp gained per mob defeated goes down as you add players. At 4 players, you have capped the difficulty of mobs you can face (+4 your level) and have found the largest concentration of mobs you can face. THE XP LOST DUE TO ADDITIONAL PLAYERS CAN NO LONGER BE MADE UP BY FIGHTING HIGHER LEVEL MOBS OR MORE MOBS BECAUSE OF THE PURPLE PATCH


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Just so that I'm clear - the larger the group, the larger the spawn. The problem is not the "purple patch" - the problem is that players are approaching MOB spawns that are simply too small for their group.

Oh - low level trials - Sewers (upper). Faultline.

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I have never, ever heard of a trial in faultline. Not from any of the hundreds of players I have played with at all levels of this game. I think this may be the first mention of a trial in faultline in the history of CoH.

I got the sewer trial. I even completed it once. It is a timed mission. Mobs stop spawning once you defeat the blob at the bottom or the timer runs out. Are you honestly proposing that players must kill 150 Rikti everytime they want a challenge?


I typed up yet another explanation that yet again refutes what you believe should be happening with what is actually happening. I cleared that out. You REALLY need to reread the 10 or so posts that explain the group xp penalty.

You have just made it apparent that you have no clue how your game actually works on the live servers. You keep repeating "Find bigger spawns" without realizing that a team of 4 is fighting the exact same spawns (level and number of mobs) that an 8 person team is, only getting a crapton more xp for it. You keep poopooing the purple patch for causing this, without realizing that the purple patch is why it is happening.

The purple patch capped the level of mobs that a team can fight. Your very own game systems capped the spawn size a team can fight. 4 people or 8, the spawns are identical in a hazard zone.

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Currently, there are no spawns anywhere that are worth tackling with a 5+ person team. Unless you are herding, which looks to me like an exploit, even 4 people is a bit too many.


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The Trial Zones. These are designed for teams sizes 6 to 8 or so. Those spawns are HHHUUUGGGGEEEE - and challenging (at the low and mid levels). But many people don't take the challenge.

Again, I'm not sure what "penalty" is being allueded to.

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First, what Trial Zones? The sewer trial is for 38+ (mobs are 42's and mostly bosses). Is there some trial zone that I missed before that?

Secondly, now your just being obtuse. What "penalty" has been described in 4 or 5 posts now.

Here are the cliff notes. The xp gained per mob defeated goes down as you add players. At 4 players, you have capped the difficulty of mobs you can face (+4 your level) and have found the largest concentration of mobs you can face. THE XP LOST DUE TO ADDITIONAL PLAYERS CAN NO LONGER BE MADE UP BY FIGHTING HIGHER LEVEL MOBS OR MORE MOBS BECAUSE OF THE PURPLE PATCH


You know damn well what the penalty is, you are responsible for it. Even though I disagree with the vast majority of your 'Vision' for CoH, I never thought you were unable to see past it. If you cannot grasp the difference between what you see on paper in front of you versus how it actually plays out in the game, CoH is doomed to your 'Vision'.

Actually, Sailor Ex, the xp is capped at +5 your level. But your point still stands, if the xp is capped why on earth does it matter if you can kill stuff higher then that?

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Ok, here goes.

A while back a patch was introduced (the purple patch) that made killing a mob +4 your level impossible. A month later, this patch was rolled back to make killing a mob +5 your level impossible.

It is this purple patch that places a hard cap on the difficulty of the mobs that a team can fight.

While the actual math shows a bonus to grouping, in practice it is a penalty. An 8 person team cannot fight harder mobs, or more mobs, then a 4 person team. They can't fight harder mobs because the purple patch won't let them damage +5 mobs enough and they can't fight more mobs because a 4 person team is already fighting the maximum number of mobs they can find. You will even see small teams with a tank herding many groups of mobs.

That is why adding to a team only subtracts from the xp each individual player earns, while not adding to the level or nu
mber of mobs the team can fight.

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Uhh, I've been in 5 man teams that could take down +5.

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+5 to you, or +5 to the highest member of the team, or +5 to everyone on the team?

BladeWraith is kinda infamous for saying he could take down +8 mobs, when what was happening was the mobs were +8 to him, but +2 to the highest person and +3 to the second highest person in the team.

Your statement needs a whole lot more information in it.

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Couple that with the enormous penalty for grouping beyond the 4rth person and you just don't see large teams anymore.

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Penalty for more than 4 people? Certainly not XP wise; players get an XP bonus for having larger and larger groups. What are you referring to?

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Perhaps he's a powergamer refering to the infamous "Purple Patch". It seems that certain larger groups don't think they're getting worthwhile XPs unless they're able to defeat +10 level mobs. I don't know, that's just a guess.

Dwimble

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It would be a wrong guess, in my case. From my posts, though, I can certainly see where I would get that label as a powergamer.

I personally found large teams hunting deep purple mobs to be the best fun. They tended to be longer fights with the whole team much more involved.

Read my other posts for my explanation on why it is a penalty and not a bonus, so I don't have to repost it

Ok, here goes.

A while back a patch was introduced (the purple patch) that made killing a mob +4 your level impossible. A month later, this patch was rolled back to make killing a mob +5 your level impossible.

It is this purple patch that places a hard cap on the difficulty of the mobs that a team can fight.

While the actual math shows a bonus to grouping, in practice it is a penalty. An 8 person team cannot fight harder mobs, or more mobs, then a 4 person team. They can't fight harder mobs because the purple patch won't let them damage +5 mobs enough and they can't fight more mobs because a 4 person team is already fighting the maximum number of mobs they can find. You will even see small teams with a tank herding many groups of mobs.

That is why adding to a team only subtracts from the xp each individual player earns, while not adding to the level or number of mobs the team can fight.

You missed the last part of what you quoted. In theory, it is great. In practice, it doesn't work. You have placed a hard cap on what mobs a team can fight.

Couple that with the enormous penalty for grouping beyond the 4rth person and you just don't see large teams anymore. Start with your blaster for damage and add a controller and you can kill +4 mobs. Add a scrapper or tank or defender and there isn't anything that trio can't kill that the purple patch lets them fight.

The only times I have seen an 8 person team were on farm missions and when those 8 people split up into four 2 man teams and spread out in a zone fighting different spawns.

Like I said, your theory is sound. Your game mechanics and xp system simply destroy that theory though.