Is PLing a Form of Cheating?

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Personally, I would alter the mechanics so you do NOT earn ANY XP unless you are in a minimum range of the bad guy you are getting XP from, and thus risk getting defeated by them.


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Then you are opposed to the existance of sidekicking in any form. Afterall, the developers put it in so you could play with friends that were not in your level range. If they couldn't earn any of the normal benefits from defeating villians, what would be the point of even having sidekicking?

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There is 'risk' (no matter how small)for the person/people that are fighting the mobs.

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The person fighting the mobs is not the one gaining the benefit.

How's this? You go do my job while I go watch TV, and I'll take the paycheck. That sound good to you?


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By definition, an exploit in a MMOG is the act of taking advatage of a flaw in existing game mechanics to gain an unfair advantage over other players.
Powerleveling does not fit that definition.

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If you can come up with a legitimate solid reason why a person should be getting more skilled and powerful while standing around in a tram station staring at a wall, then I will revise my opinion.

Otherwise I stand by my statement. There is little or no risk to the person GAINING THE BENEFIT.

It is manipulation of the internal game mechanics to artificially boost the XP gained. That is all.

Unless you are right there fighting the mob and taking the risk, you shouldn't be able to reap any of the reward.


-np

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Personally, I would alter the mechanics so you do NOT earn ANY XP unless you are in a minimum range of the bad guy you are getting XP from, and thus risk getting defeated by them.


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Then you are opposed to the existance of sidekicking in any form. Afterall, the developers put it in so you could play with friends that were not in your level range. If they couldn't earn any of the normal benefits from defeating villians, what would be the point of even having sidekicking?

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Where did I say I opposed differently leveled folks fighting together?

Sidekicked or not, you should be required to be actively fighting the mob you are getting XP from.*

That is all I am saying.


-np

*- Yes, I consider buff/heal activities to be actively fighting the mob. You are right there with your teammates taking the same risks, so it counts.

One clarification here:

"Powerleveling" is NOT standing AFK while grouping, getting XP. Yes, that can be one (rather lame) aspect of powerleveling, but the term has a far wider scope and definition in its history.

"Powerleveler" is a term describing a player's priority in game- their goal. It was used initially as a counterbalance term for "roleplayers."

"Roleplayers" are motivated by the story. Leveling is a natural process reflecting character growth, but it isn't the end-all objective. They get a sense of accomplishment in more intangible, community-oriented game rewards. Roleplayers who want PvP want it so they can open new avenues for Player interaction, possibly allow them to "stage" their own player-driven stories. Some roleplayers will "powerlevel" to access a particular skill set or competency, but mostly because it's an element of their character story. Roleplayers may make a "Flavor of the Month" template out of accident, but don't understand why someone would want a "cookie cutter template."

"Powerlevelers" on the other hand, see "leveling" as the goal. There's little in the form of character interaction or story development, to motivate a powerleveler. The powerleveler considers accomplishment by reaching a certain level or gathering rare loot. They're very quickly bored when they reach the top, because their whole game experience was built around advancing, and now there's no place else to go but up. If PvP isn't available in a game, powerlevelers are the first to get bored and leave. If PvP is available, they're the first to clamor for some kind of rating system for their PvP matches, as they see rankings as an "accomplishment." if they're not into PvP, they usually clamor for more dev input for "real players" get disheartened, and chase after the next, latest MMORPG.

Personally, I find powerlevelers harmful to the long-term health of the game. They don't contribute much to the community, can dishearten the less rabid player. I've seen the Powerleveler PvP'er all but exclude all other non-maxed-out player from PvP in other systems (please be careful implementing this devs). Powerlevelers often equate level advancement with superiority and will often disrupt player communities by attempting leadership coups when their advancement isn't reflected in their community rank.

Yes, they're here, and they pay money to be here, but I find that play priority unhealthy for the game.

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Personally, I would alter the mechanics so you do NOT earn ANY XP unless you are in a minimum range of the bad guy you are getting XP from, and thus risk getting defeated by them.


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Then you are opposed to the existance of sidekicking in any form. Afterall, the developers put it in so you could play with friends that were not in your level range. If they couldn't earn any of the normal benefits from defeating villians, what would be the point of even having sidekicking?

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I think the "minimum range" being referred to there is distance from the mob, not a level difference.

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Personally, I would alter the mechanics so you do NOT earn ANY XP unless you are in a minimum range of the bad guy you are getting XP from, and thus risk getting defeated by them.

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Then you are opposed to the existance of sidekicking in any form. Afterall, the developers put it in so you could play with friends that were not in your level range. If they couldn't earn any of the normal benefits from defeating villians, what would be the point of even having sidekicking?

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Hmm, I interpreted this differently in my previous post. By "range" I thought he was talking about the physical distance between the sidekick and the villain being defeated. If, on the other hand, we are talking about a level range from the sidekick's security level to the villain's combat level, then I agree that it defeats the point of being able to sidekick someone.

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Is PLing a Form of Cheating?

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Is this thread a form of Trolling?

Seriously. I rarely skip reading threads before posting, but 3 pages for this topic?

No, no it's not. Topic over. That was easy, wasn't it?

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Where did I say I opposed differently leveled folks fighting together?

Sidekicked or not, you should be required to be actively fighting the mob you are getting XP from.*

That is all I am saying.


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Sorry, misunderstood. When I saw range, I read it as "level range."

Well said Chase Arcanum! That's a major factor in what I'm talking about. The solution would be a time out for an idle player.

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The solution would be a time out for an idle player.

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Actually, I don't see how this would change much. People wouldn't be able to go afk and gain exp, but many of the people I see being powerleveled are socializing, spamming new powers, ect. All one would need to do is move occasionally to prevent being timed out. I liked the "must be a minimum distance from the defeated villain to get exp" solution better. Still allows people to gain exp at an increased rate with the help of their friends, but they can't sit at the train doing nothing.

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One clarification here:

"Powerleveling" is NOT standing AFK while grouping, getting XP. Yes, that can be one (rather lame) aspect of powerleveling, but the term has a far wider scope and definition in its history.

"Powerleveler" is a term describing a player's priority in game- their goal. It was used initially as a counterbalance term for "roleplayers."

"Roleplayers" are motivated by the story. Leveling is a natural process reflecting character growth, but it isn't the end-all objective. They get a sense of accomplishment in more intangible, community-oriented game rewards. Roleplayers who want PvP want it so they can open new avenues for Player interaction, possibly allow them to "stage" their own player-driven stories. Some roleplayers will "powerlevel" to access a particular skill set or competency, but mostly because it's an element of their character story. Roleplayers may make a "Flavor of the Month" template out of accident, but don't understand why someone would want a "cookie cutter template."

"Powerlevelers" on the other hand, see "leveling" as the goal. There's little in the form of character interaction or story development, to motivate a powerleveler. The powerleveler considers accomplishment by reaching a certain level or gathering rare loot. They're very quickly bored when they reach the top, because their whole game experience was built around advancing, and now there's no place else to go but up. If PvP isn't available in a game, powerlevelers are the first to get bored and leave. If PvP is available, they're the first to clamor for some kind of rating system for their PvP matches, as they see rankings as an "accomplishment." if they're not into PvP, they usually clamor for more dev input for "real players" get disheartened, and chase after the next, latest MMORPG.

Personally, I find powerlevelers harmful to the long-term health of the game. They don't contribute much to the community, can dishearten the less rabid player. I've seen the Powerleveler PvP'er all but exclude all other non-maxed-out player from PvP in other systems (please be careful implementing this devs). Powerlevelers often equate level advancement with superiority and will often disrupt player communities by attempting leadership coups when their advancement isn't reflected in their community rank.

Yes, they're here, and they pay money to be here, but I find that play priority unhealthy for the game.

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Excellent post, very well said chaseArcanum. 5 stars for you!

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No, no it's not. Topic over. That was easy, wasn't it?

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Very easy when you give the wrong answer with no thought.

It is an exploit. Look in your dictionary, and find the word exploit. You are taking advantage of a flaw int he game mechanics(exploiting). If you put that term into negative context, then that's your own guilty conscience working.
Try not being so defensive.
The fact that this is a mutliplayer game means most actions will affect another players. That's just pure logic. If 20 heroes are waiting at the tram in bricks and it slows down someone's game even a fraction, then it's affected your game. There are so many other ways it can affect one's game, but we only need one to refute the "it doesn't hurt you" argument.

Second, if we are talking about choice, then a player who has hit 50, wants to start a new hero and skip the content can skip the content. His choice is to not start another hero. Why would anyone assume they are entitled to take the easy road because they have done it once?
Check out E-bay sometime for power-leveled characters, and see if you still think this is okay.

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The person fighting the mobs is not the one gaining the benefit.

How's this? You go do my job while I go watch TV, and I'll take the paycheck. That sound good to you?


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The person fighting the mobs is getting benefit/XP/Influence/Inspirations/Enhancements.

Using your logic, if I do not need any help defeating mobs, I would be exploiting by inviting someone else to my team?
My Regen scrapper needs no heals unless shes fighting +5 or higher. If I invited a non blasting empath defender to my team, they would be exploiting since they have no risk. If I want to invite and sidekick a lower level defender/controller to 'duo' one of my missions, they should forefeit all their XP because they have no risk?
My missions on a 2 person team are zero risk as it stands... am I an exploiter because my missions pose no risk?


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If you can come up with a legitimate solid reason why a person should be getting more skilled and powerful while standing around in a tram station staring at a wall, then I will revise my opinion.

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The crux of your argument is based on someone not playing the game the way you think they should be playing it.

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It is manipulation of the internal game mechanics to artificially boost the XP gained. That is all.


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So anyone that gains XP faster than you persoanlly think they should, must be exploiting or cheating?


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Unless you are right there fighting the mob and taking the risk, you shouldn't be able to reap any of the reward.

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How can you objectively define risk in COH?

A provoke spamming tanker removes essentially all the risk from the rest of the team. When I duo with my tanker buddy, I never get hit or draw aggro. Should the tank be the only one who gains reward?
A non blasting Empath defender draws no aggro from heals.. they can heal from range thus putting themselves in no risk.
A bubble defenders bubbles do not draw aggro and do not create any risk.
Once a controller has a group locked down, the risk threat sinks to zero.
1-shot sniping mobs out of attack range is zero risk... should there be no XP awarded for that?

What if your friend or teammate has to go AFK for 5 minutes? Do you advocate punishing them by taking away their reward while they are afk?



Once again, I'll ask how does powerleveling negatively affect yours, or anyone elses enjoyment in playing City of Heroes?

TO ALL: Plz Visit my new post here, i think imo, this should be implemented, it would solve the majority of powerleveling which imo i dont care about, ppl should do it if they want to skip the lower already done lvls. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#1293788

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You are taking advantage of a flaw int he game mechanics(exploiting).

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Powerleveling involves min/maxing 2 game mechanics.
Sidekicking and defeating the minimum number of mobs for maximum XP gain.

Where is the flaw and how is it being taken advantage of?


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The fact that this is a mutliplayer game means most actions will affect another players. That's just pure logic. If 20 heroes are waiting at the tram in bricks and it slows down someone's game even a fraction, then it's affected your game. There are so many other ways it can affect one's game, but we only need one to refute the "it doesn't hurt you" argument.

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The crackpot logic in this thread is simply astounding.

In your example, the act of a player being in a location is the issue, not what said player is doing in that location.

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Yeesh, stop trolling every post, Unavailable. None of what you just said is true except mission xp getting a boost.

The enemy AI MAY be improved, but no real way to test that.



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trolling>?.......

do you know what trolling is>?

They did increase the AI considerably, and they did decrease the xp considerably.

Go check it out for yourself

No way to test it??? Go fight in test!

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In the hollows yes, enemy AI is tweaked to do something different. This is no different than the packs of BPs in DA jumping around like a jackrabbits to get out of the "AoE formation" they used to be in.

From our test experience this past weekend absolutely nothing was changed with minion HP or xp.

Mission xp was vastly improved.

If the minion xp has been lowered since this weekend or the hp raised then its either a stealth nerf or a bug.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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It is an exploit. Look in your dictionary, and find the word exploit. You are taking advantage of a flaw int he game mechanics(exploiting).

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This assumes, of course, that the mechanics are flawed. When there is a bug being used to powerlevel someone, obviously it is a flaw. If there is no bug being used, however, then whether or not there is a flaw in the mechanics rests on whether or not you think the SK system or the team exp distribution system is flawed. This is an opinion however, so it cannot be used to deem something an exploit, unless the devs decide that these systems are not working as they intended them to.

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The fact that this is a mutliplayer game means most actions will affect another players. That's just pure logic. If 20 heroes are waiting at the tram in bricks and it slows down someone's game even a fraction, then it's affected your game. There are so many other ways it can affect one's game, but we only need one to refute the "it doesn't hurt you" argument.

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Agreed.

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Second, if we are talking about choice, then a player who has hit 50, wants to start a new hero and skip the content can skip the content. His choice is to not start another hero. Why would anyone assume they are entitled to take the easy road because they have done it once?

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This assumes that there is only one correct road to take. Whether someone takes an "easy" road or a "hard" road has nothing to do with being "entitiled" to anything. Like you said, this is a multiplayer game, so you cannot assume that your pace is the "right" one, or the only pace that should be allowed.

Cheating is not a "pace" a pace is following the variations for the game's rules.

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Once again, I'll ask how does powerleveling affect yours, or anyone elses enjoyment in playing City of Heroes?

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It can affect the long term development of the game by artificially skewing the numbers the devs use to plan future content.

It's annoying in the same way seeing anyone freeload is annoying.

It seriously breaks the immersion of the game.

It encourages an environment of number-crunchers and those only concerned with the maximum efficiency, which if you pay attention to forums and areas which cater to these types is almost always a relentlessly negative and argumentative bunch.

In short, it brings down the game.


-np

Here's a question:

Im a force field defender. I've often teamed up with people 6+ levels higher than me, un-sidekicked. I would generally, stay very close and keep the person shielded, and use repulsion field to keep enemies on the ground. I have leadership pool and the medicine pool to keep my teammate healed.

Even though I was using any of my offensive powers (not that I could), is this still considered powerleveling? I did level from 27 to 40 moderately quick this way. The reason I am asking this is because, though I thought it was reasonable way of playing the game, certain other people continue to harrass me because im a "powerleveler".

Edit: fyi, I was always offered a team invite usually without having to ask to join.

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Cheating is not a "pace" a pace is following the variations for the game's rules.

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I've yet to see a convincing arguement that leveling faster due to min/maxing and not bug exploiting is cheating.

The devs have already stated that PL'ing is not cheating. This topic comes up once a week. Just do a search and find your answers. No, not cheating. Are they enjoying the game? I don't know, but more power to you if your friends can PL you or you are rolling an ALT because you have already reached 50 and would like to play with some new powers and not have to go through all the kill stealing at the low levels. P.S. I think the OP is trolling. IMO.

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Well, I tested out what i thought was true, and well, the xp wasn't decreased, and I thought it was. I apologize for any inconvience there.

However, my test do indicate HP was increased by 1/3 on a Voltaic Tank.

New AI can be confirmed Here

And well, as I was wrong about their XP, I was right baout everything else.

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Um..

Carnies executing the underprepared is old news. This has happened since Update 1 went live.

Some mobs have new powers, not new AI. Some battles in the hollows are a new scripted AI (The span out and then use ranged attacks on the swat npc when you get close to the mob is an AI script that actually is new). What you are talking about are entirely different things.

Sailor eX
"Not in the face!"

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It can affect the long term development of the game by artificially skewing the numbers the devs use to plan future content

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How about an example (from any game) of how powerleveling has influenced game balance or content.


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It's annoying in the same way seeing anyone freeload is annoying.

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Kids who use AOL-speak annoy me.
Crappy players annoy me.
People with unoriginal names annoy me.
Players who talk IN ALL CAPS ANNOY ME.

Can I advocate making all of these annoyances against the rules?


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It seriously breaks the immersion of the game.

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How exactly does someone standing afk in a certain location ruin your immersion?
I could see how powerlevel beggars could ruin your immersion, but the people who are actually doing the powerleveling are usually completely innocuous.


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It encourages an environment of number-crunchers and those only concerned with the maximum efficiency, which if you pay attention to forums and areas which cater to these types is almost always a relentlessly negative and argumentative bunch.


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And how does that affect you personally?
Nobody is forcing you to min/max.



Your first point may have some merit but the other 3 are just grasping at straws.

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Here's a question:

Im a force field defender. I've often teamed up with people 6+ levels higher than me, un-sidekicked. I would generally, stay very close and keep the person shielded, and use repulsion field to keep enemies on the ground. I have leadership pool and the medicine pool to keep my teammate healed.

Even though I was using any of my offensive powers (not that I could), is this still considered powerleveling? I did level from 27 to 40 moderately quick this way. The reason I am asking this is because, though I thought it was reasonable way of playing the game, certain other people continue to harrass me because im a "powerleveler".

Edit: fyi, I was always offered a team invite usually without having to ask to join.

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Nope - you are clearly contributing to the team's objectives, and receiving (a fat healthy helping) of your just due.