CitizenPain

Maybe I'm just different, but the xp is never my main concern. I'll team with 7 other people regularly, and it becomes about being a team more than gaining xp.
That's just one person's opinion, but I figured I'd give the other side have a voice.

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Feel free to back this up. I'm anxious to hear your reasoning, as you would be the first in this thread to provide any evidence that this is indeed the case.

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It's been backed up. You guys say it doesn't affect everyone then when someone proves it you then backtrack by saying "it doesn't affect you much."
Which is it?
If you want a game where an exploit doesn't affect you play GTA 3. Then that would be true.
If you want evidence read back through the thread.

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I have made several well thought out posts with many points that explain the pros and cons of powerleveling. Not ONE of my posts had it's contents contested by an anti-pl'er (unless you include the semantics one regarding the words "religious crusade").

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This cracked me up. It is your opinion that they were well-thought out. I thought opinions are supposed to stay out of this thread, right?

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Typically, posts that have no merit will be torn apart by the other side. A lack of response only shows that there was no fallacy in my logic and statements.


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Assumption can be a major fallacy, my friend. Just because you feel the need to argue for arguments sake does not mean that when some one decides to quit because a closed mind that you've won. It just means it's pointless to keep this going.

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I stand uncorrected. This means it's a matter of opinion regarding the whole topic. We can chose to agree to disagree based on that fact. I doubt anyone will sway the other's opinion. Feel free to try, I'm out unless someone can make a post worth responding to.

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For someone that is bashing opinion, you have made 3 in this post alone. Follow your own advice. I've seen those who are against put it plainly using facts. I've seen those in favor cry jealousy, name call and use arguments that are simply irrational. The 3 basic arguments seem to be
1) Your jealous. People can honestly say they know how another person feels or thinks? Throw that one out.

2) Power leveling has been going on for a long time. Traditon: the weakest of all reasons.

3) It doesn't affect you. It's a multiplayer game. Everyone is affected to a certain degree by anothers actions. It's why we have rules of conduct. False argument.

4)It doesn't say you can't do it or the it allows me to do it argument. Yeah, right. An argument that never worked when you were a kid. "But, mom, you never said I couldn't drive the car at 8!" We are adults, right? We bought this game to play, right? Any arguments about how it's fun to sit at the Tram while your hero goes from 2-50 is a semantical argument to justify behavior that is not desirable in this game.

Changes are coming. Why don't we revisit this after they do?

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If you fail to understand the zealot comparison, sorry.

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I can't wait til you get your oscar for playing misunderstood victim.
The last I will say on this is Statesman already gave his stance on the subject. If you are still arguing the point, maybe you are the zealot. You know, still fighting for a lost cause and all that.
Good luck with the changes, though.

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If you feel I've misread something, please point it out. Specifics would be helpful. Maybe you're right.


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There are some Gen Con quotes where he says something to the effect that he considers bugs anything that makes the game boring. Add that to what he said about leveling and I think that adds up.

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That's a matter of opinion. The opinion of someone in a position of authority, granted; but nonetheless an opinion. Certainly some people must find this fun, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

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This would be like the French trying to tell DeGaulle what he meant when he wrote the French Constitution.
I think States knows what he wants fromt his game. As has been said fromt he beginning, its pretty logical to assume that the Devs want people to play the game.

If you put his quotes together, you see that he does not consider that type of leveling acceptable.
I do like your interpretation on the last part of his quote. I read that to mean something altogether.

I'm reading into that quote that he is going to make that kind of leveling so difficult that it won't be worth it. That's why he kind of leaves it as you're welcome to try.

Techno: Religious Crusade? Why is it that after the lead Dev says it will be dealt with, you still hurl those little insults at those of us who are against this?
Why should we be forced to play the way you expect us to?

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Here's my stance...

It's the developers job to ensure that fun play equals a reward.

It's not fun if you level up by doing nothing. Now, there will always be an element of this - but in general, spawns are based on team size. Which means that an extra person on your team that is not contributing anything to the battle is a severe detriment. BUT our high level game is a little too easy - which means that high level characters can team up with low level characters - go out and do missions/street sweep - with a high degree of success.

But we are going to be ratcheting up the difficulty of higher levels, meaning that someone trying to "power level" someone will find it more challenging. If someone wants to do that, bravo, but I think we'll see the issue resolve itself....


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First, let's define the power leveling that was commonly being referred to. It is the kind where a low level hero will stand at the train(in a safe zone) while another higher level hero takes all the risk and helps them level quickly. Being Sidekicked doesn't count. Basically, if you contribute in some way(actively, of course), then you are expected to agin xp.
Now, the quote form Statesman says that it is not what was intended. It does affect the game in some small ways and, maybe, bigger ones that we can't see, yet.
Overall, it is an issue of rules, though. That type of power leveling is against the rules as defined by Statesman.
It should always matter to us if someone is breaking the rules.
Wouldn't you agree?

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Here's my stance...

It's the developers job to ensure that fun play equals a reward.

It's not fun if you level up by doing nothing. Now, there will always be an element of this - but in general, spawns are based on team size. Which means that an extra person on your team that is not contributing anything to the battle is a severe detriment. BUT our high level game is a little too easy - which means that high level characters can team up with low level characters - go out and do missions/street sweep - with a high degree of success.

But we are going to be ratcheting up the difficulty of higher levels, meaning that someone trying to "power level" someone will find it more challenging. If someone wants to do that, bravo, but I think we'll see the issue resolve itself....


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There you go, in case you missed it in this thread.
That is from Statesman. Think he's jealous?

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good observation i was thinking the same exact thing. cause power levelers dont hurt them in any way. so why would they be making this big of a deal about it. anyways flame away i dont care i know that you guys are just jelous of anyone who doesnt have to play 600 hours to get to 50.

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Since you can read people's minds and/or feelings in real life, you have any lottery numbers for us?
That is the most ignorant observation on this thread, and it's been repeated way too often.
How can you honestly say that you know what another person is feeling?
In court that would be followed with a loud"OBJECTION."

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The only way you can be angry about others Power Leveling is if your jealous.

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Always that one person who can't read or reason.

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You need to read the thread and not skim it. Most here, even on the Pro PL side are laying down very well thought out arguements.

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Good luck on that.
I notice that there are people who don't(or can't) read and people who just like to debate minor arguments and extreme situations into the dirt.
Even better, these endless mass debaters never make any actual stand-they just criticize others.

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I wonder if anyone thinks anymore? That's plainly silly.


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Not as silly as refusing to read.
I would continue to debate with you, but you are one of those that doesn't use logic.
Thanks for trying, but objectivity means leaving your hateful nature behind.

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The issue is why they should raise to attempting to deal with it when it (a) doesn't affect you or anyone else

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I really wonder if anyone reads anymore?
It's established it does affect others. It's a MULTI-player game. Your game has to affect other players.

If you get tired of broadcast spamming for Power levels, then your game has been affected. If so many low level heroes are hanging around the train that it cause lag when it other wise would not, the it has affected your game.
One does not play in a vacuum.

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Obviously there has been enough stated on this subject. There are those of us that don't have a problem with with others style of play, RP or whatever, and those of you that would have the rest of us follow your dictations.


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Aren't you trying to enforce your way of playing on everyone else? I mean, you are saying if you don't care then neither should anyone else.
Just because you have different ideas on the game doesn't mean you should be rude.

Let's have some fun with facts.
Fact: Some Devs put time and effort to make a game for people to PLAY

Fact: A multiplayer game means you are playing with OTHER people. By defintion your game is affected by others. A mild example would be that you cannot occupy the exact same area at the exact same time as another player.

Fact: The rules do state something about bugs in the game that cause "unintended and unnatural benefits." ( Rule number 18 at the front of this very forum)

Can we please ditch the jealousy argument? That is quite possibly the dumbest argument I've ever heard.
How can anyone be envious of something that is available to everyone?

Funny, how it's been proven that gaining xp at a train affects others game, but that is ignored.
Here's a suggestion: get rid of the drones. Make no safe havens. If th emajority of the gamers are cool with that kind of PL'ing, then it will be fine.
If not, then we will have some frontier justice. Maybe, mobs wandering intot he trains by "accident."
Or is that what some of you guys are afraid of?

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No, no it's not. Topic over. That was easy, wasn't it?

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Very easy when you give the wrong answer with no thought.

It is an exploit. Look in your dictionary, and find the word exploit. You are taking advantage of a flaw int he game mechanics(exploiting). If you put that term into negative context, then that's your own guilty conscience working.
Try not being so defensive.
The fact that this is a mutliplayer game means most actions will affect another players. That's just pure logic. If 20 heroes are waiting at the tram in bricks and it slows down someone's game even a fraction, then it's affected your game. There are so many other ways it can affect one's game, but we only need one to refute the "it doesn't hurt you" argument.

Second, if we are talking about choice, then a player who has hit 50, wants to start a new hero and skip the content can skip the content. His choice is to not start another hero. Why would anyone assume they are entitled to take the easy road because they have done it once?
Check out E-bay sometime for power-leveled characters, and see if you still think this is okay.

The Sandmen.
Our colors are Red and Black with an anarchy symbol.
We are sittng with about 13 members at the moment, and are only expanding up to 15. We could use a controller,and a defender.