Right_Guard

If they add underwater levels I hope my bubbles will let people breath underwater! How cool would that be?

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That is NOT what I said. Every Archetype can solo. Everything? Certainly not. Every Archetype, if they don't feel like teaming up, can at least go out and fight crime on the city streets. Many missions are solo-able - but not EVERY mission.

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Doesn't get much clearer than that. Thanks Statesman!

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The Statesman has stated, recently, that everything in CoH should be soloable for every AT. (no matter how long it could take)

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That's not exactly true. He didn't say everything should be soloable, he said everyone should be able to solo. That doesn't mean everyone should be able to solo all the content in the game. Here is the quote from him:

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I've stated before - I don't want FORCED grouping.

All Archetypes CAN solo. Some do it slowly, some do it quickly. Some can solo most missions, some can solo fewer missions. And worse comes to worse - a hero can always hunt the streets and stop some crime there. That was always the intent of city zones.

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*edit - Here is another good quote from Statesman on soloing:
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Just to clarify something here. I said that I wanted every Archetype to be able to solo. In other words, if someone logs on, and they don't feel like teaming up with someone else, there's still something for them to do. All Archetypes can currently do this...but some builds are stronger in groups, others are stronger solo.

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Its just becoming a slight annoyance not a neat game feature.

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That's your opinion. My opinion is the opposite.

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Get rid of AV's from mission that are attempted by a solo player.

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I think a better solution would be to have an alternate, AV-less mission to choose whenever an AV mission comes up, like what they are doing with the new "do x and y at the same time" group missions in issue 2. Then people who like to have lots of AV battles will not be affected while solo players can skip them.

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If you are sceptical the cheating aspect of PLing just imagine that you are talking to the team that developed the game. Its a great game and I'm sure that they put months into developing the content, so do you think that they would like people just bypass it all and not really play the game that they developed?


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If people don't enjoy every aspect of the game, but are still finding enough things that they DO enjoy that they want to keep playing, then I don't think the devs are going to be hurt.

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I enjoy the struggle of they game and helping other people. Its fun, but I kind of feel like its a waste of time for me to struggle through the levels when others don't have to. I almost quit the other day because I was annoyed by the dozens of people that I observed doing it. After getting about 24K in debt that night I felt a bit defined by their easy ride.
Should I feel this way? No. However, I am a person that enjoys getting in to the game and using strategy to win, so I simply do feel this way.
My feelings or anyone else's are not important because objectively Pling is a cheat or exploit (whatever!) hands down.

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I can see where you are coming from, and please don't think I'm trying to be mean here (I'm just trying to be objective), but something can't be considered cheating or exploiting just because it makes you feel bad/jealous/like you are wasting your time. That's something you need to overcome, not the devs.

*Edit - grammer problems

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It can affect the long term development of the game by artificially skewing the numbers the devs use to plan future content.


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We don't know what methods the devs use to mine data, so while it may be possible that results get skewed due to powerleveling, none of us can prove or disprove it so it cannot be reliably used in an arguement for either side here.

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It's annoying in the same way seeing anyone freeload is annoying.

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True, but you have to live with that anywhere. It's not limited to CoH.

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It seriously breaks the immersion of the game.


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So do a number of other things. OOC chat, characters names "Wulferin007"... breaking the immersion of the game cannot really be made into an issue unless it's on an RP server.

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It encourages an environment of number-crunchers and those only concerned with the maximum efficiency, which if you pay attention to forums and areas which cater to these types is almost always a relentlessly negative and argumentative bunch.


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That's a sweeping generalization, which in general is a "bad thing." I'm a programmer so I do consider myself to be somewhat of a number-cruncher and an efficiency-minded person, and I think my gameplay refects that. I'm most certainly not "relentlessly negative." Even with the word "almost" in there I'd say you are way off base in making that assertion.

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Cheating is not a "pace" a pace is following the variations for the game's rules.

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I've yet to see a convincing arguement that leveling faster due to min/maxing and not bug exploiting is cheating.

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It is an exploit. Look in your dictionary, and find the word exploit. You are taking advantage of a flaw int he game mechanics(exploiting).

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This assumes, of course, that the mechanics are flawed. When there is a bug being used to powerlevel someone, obviously it is a flaw. If there is no bug being used, however, then whether or not there is a flaw in the mechanics rests on whether or not you think the SK system or the team exp distribution system is flawed. This is an opinion however, so it cannot be used to deem something an exploit, unless the devs decide that these systems are not working as they intended them to.

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The fact that this is a mutliplayer game means most actions will affect another players. That's just pure logic. If 20 heroes are waiting at the tram in bricks and it slows down someone's game even a fraction, then it's affected your game. There are so many other ways it can affect one's game, but we only need one to refute the "it doesn't hurt you" argument.

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Agreed.

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Second, if we are talking about choice, then a player who has hit 50, wants to start a new hero and skip the content can skip the content. His choice is to not start another hero. Why would anyone assume they are entitled to take the easy road because they have done it once?

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This assumes that there is only one correct road to take. Whether someone takes an "easy" road or a "hard" road has nothing to do with being "entitiled" to anything. Like you said, this is a multiplayer game, so you cannot assume that your pace is the "right" one, or the only pace that should be allowed.

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The solution would be a time out for an idle player.

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Actually, I don't see how this would change much. People wouldn't be able to go afk and gain exp, but many of the people I see being powerleveled are socializing, spamming new powers, ect. All one would need to do is move occasionally to prevent being timed out. I liked the "must be a minimum distance from the defeated villain to get exp" solution better. Still allows people to gain exp at an increased rate with the help of their friends, but they can't sit at the train doing nothing.

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Personally, I would alter the mechanics so you do NOT earn ANY XP unless you are in a minimum range of the bad guy you are getting XP from, and thus risk getting defeated by them.

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Then you are opposed to the existance of sidekicking in any form. Afterall, the developers put it in so you could play with friends that were not in your level range. If they couldn't earn any of the normal benefits from defeating villians, what would be the point of even having sidekicking?

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Hmm, I interpreted this differently in my previous post. By "range" I thought he was talking about the physical distance between the sidekick and the villain being defeated. If, on the other hand, we are talking about a level range from the sidekick's security level to the villain's combat level, then I agree that it defeats the point of being able to sidekick someone.

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Powerleveling is pure manipulation of loopholes in the game experience mechanics to get large amounts of XP for little or no risk.

There is no denying this. It is an exploit, pure and simple.

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I agree with this in cases where a bug is being used, such as the mentor/sidekick not being on the same team. However, I don't agree that sidekicking someone in such a way that they gain the maximum exp possible (making them the lowest level they can be while still getting exp) is exploiting.

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The intention of the game is that you go out and beat up bad guys to advance. There is NO way you can legitimately justify being able to just stand around in a train station doing nothing and gain XP.

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I don't like to say there's NO way, I feel like I should be able to let my lower level friends take a break from the grind and do some of the work for them occasionally, should I choose to do so. If i want to shoulder some of their burden to help them out that's my choice.

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Personally, I would alter the mechanics so you do NOT earn ANY XP unless you are in a minimum range of the bad guy you are getting XP from, and thus risk getting defeated by them.

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I like this idea. It still allows people to help their friends out, but it also makes sense from a RP point of view. It's like the sidekick has to follow the mentor around and observe his/her techniques. And it clears up all the people standing around doing nothing at the train stations. It could still be done with no risk (or, very little risk) using stealth powers, but at least the person would be doing *something* and not standing around. And maybe some of the people who have a problem with seeing people leveling at the train stations would be satisfied as well.

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Should lying about disability be allowed? How does it hurt anyone? Government coffers are so big that it has no impact and hurts no one.

PLing affects the bottom line. It artificially inflates numbers on the reports the developers run about the game. If there was a sudden influx of PLing the devs would get false (or at least skewed) numbers on leveling speed and the number of players at x level.

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Another good point, but since I don't know the methods the devs use to mine data about leveling trends, I just assume that they have ways to weed out extreme cases like powerlevelers and I don't worry too much about it. In the end, I prefer to just focus on what's fun for me and leave the rest in the devs hands.

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If PLing was ok, the devs would not go out of their way to write in code that makes it hard (or at times impossible) to do. If PLing was ok, then a SK would earn the same XP and the master. If PLing was ok there would be no level difference required for a team to earn xp.


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All of these are good points, but they do not exactly imply that the devs are against powerleveling. If you use that logic, then it's just as easy to counter-argue that if the devs wanted us to level at all, they wouldn't have put code in the game to make the bad guys resist our attempts to arrest them.

I think they just don't want to make powerleveling TOO easy to do. Just like they don't want to make it TOO easy to level normally. Now, whether or not you think that powerleveling is currently too easy to do is another story. I personally have no problem with it, if that's how they have fun then who am I to say they are wrong?

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I love this philosophy! We should apply it to real life too. Someone just robbed a convenience store? Who cares? Doesn't affect me. Someone is lying about disability just to collect $$. Who cares? Doesn't affect me. He's right, people are just jealous that the criminal who held up the store got lots of money.

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Apples and oranges. People are being hurt or otherwise negatively affected in those situations. Nobody is hurt by powerlevelers.

A more accurate scenario would be a person bumming a ride from a friend. He's not driving himself, but if his/her friend wants to use their gas to help them get around, then why should you care?