Is PLing a Form of Cheating?
By
Agrippa_CoH,
Posted on: 2004-09-09 12:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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For those who do not think power leveling hurts everyone else consider this. More then half the current L50 heros were power leveled at least part of the way. A great many were PLd most of the way. (And, a great many of those that were not power leveled made extensive use of some form of exploit or overpowered power like burn, caltrops, smoke grenade or some undesirable technique like AoE blast and run or herding. )
[/ QUOTE ] Well in my opinion i dont believe most lvl 50's were pl'd...since there arent that many look at all the lvl 32 in bricks those are the ones that are being PL'ed.
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Actually, how's this: If you are not in aggro range (or some other close range) of a mob, you cannot gain XP from that mob.
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I think there might be something to this. How about if you are not in SK range it drops the XP. Once it says "you can are no longer being SK'd" kiss the XP good bye. At the very least it would make it more of an inconvenience.
PLing doesn't really affect me and how I play the game, but I do think it goes against the reason the game was made. It would be like playing someone in chess with a higher ranking, but letting someone of equal rank play him for you; yet you get credit for the win. Doesn't make sense.
Does it bother me that they do it? No. As has been mentioned it's their choice. Would I like to see ways implemented to make it harder to do? You bet.
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However, I assume that things in a game this complex take time to change.
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While it doesn't surprise me that they're looking to close some loopholes, do not expect powerleveling to disappear. There is a point at which trying to eliminate powerleveling can hurt other players by placing barriers in the way people legitimately want to level or play.
Most MMOGs have fixed flaws or bugs or exploits that allow very fast leveling with little effort or risk, but they have never removed them all, and people will powerlevel. That is one reason why it's better not to let it bother you, because people will find ways to powerlevel and if you are banking on the developers to eliminate it entirely, I don't think that will happen.
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For those who do not think power leveling hurts everyone else consider this. More then half the current L50 heros were power leveled at least part of the way. A great many were PLd most of the way. (And, a great many of those that were not power leveled made extensive use of some form of exploit or overpowered power like burn, caltrops, smoke grenade or some undesirable technique like AoE blast and run or herding. )
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95% of all statistics are made up. 
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How about if you are not in SK range it drops the XP. Once it says "you can are no longer being SK'd" kiss the XP good bye.
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This mechanic already esists in game.
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The fact is, on most servers there are only a small handful of people who have actually earned a L50 character at this point. Yet the devs use these numbers to determine things like the rate at which they want people to hit 50 and the rate at which they want to give out rewards like Epic ATs.
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Yes, and they do this with full knowledge of PLEVELING and its affects on the rate at which people are able to reach level 50.
The developers don't work in a vacuum, you know? They have access to all the information you do, and rest assured they're not making decisions about XP rate based on how fast someone can be PL'd to 50.
Try again, please.
i would also like to see proof that majority of the lvl 50 heroes were powerlevled.....If you have none dont state the fact...if you cant debate a fact with solid evidence dont bring it up.
also i think the devs would be scared to loose customers..you get lvl 50 nothing else to do..more games coming out cant reach high lvl fast already done low lvl content...game gets boring...move to WoW 
Before responding to things I see above my opinion is that powerleveling (defined as gaining experience without risk) is an exploit of the existing game mechanics.
No powerlevellers do not affect me directly, however it is their indirect impact to the game that detracts from the genre.
It may yield to skewed development of the game mechanics and content, inexperience players, and overall immersion in the genre.
I agree to the solution that others have recommended that you should not be able to gain experience unless you are within a defined range (in distance) of a defeated villain.
As to some of the points mentioned above:
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If I want to invite and sidekick a lower level defender/controller to 'duo' one of my missions, they should forefeit all their XP because they have no risk?
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Miir I feel your argument is flawed. Since by their mere presence they your invited teammate does have risk...although you feel that they are not in jeopardy the game is coded such if they get too close to any mob they can suffer an attack..and if the level disparity is too severe they may fall in one or two shots. Playing both empathy and FF defenders I suffer random attacks often even though I do not attack in combat. I have found that damage aggro is not 100 percent reliable nor is a tanks taunt/provoke abilities. Also damage mitigation can never defeat the minimum chances established by the program.
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So anyone that gains XP faster than you persoanlly think they should, must be exploiting or cheating?
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The rate of experience gain is not in question but the method. There is zero risk for the reward. Gaining experience by standing still in the security of a safehaven defeats the game's premise IMHO.
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How can you objectively define risk in COH?
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Simple. Facing opposition to attacks against a villian or being subject to their attacks.
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A provoke spamming tanker removes essentially all the risk from the rest of the team. When I duo with my tanker buddy, I never get hit or draw aggro. Should the tank be the only one who gains reward?
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Except you ignore the fact that the power is NOT 100 percent certain. You can outdamage a tankers aggro and you can defeat his provocation by drawing to close to a villain in combat. It may only be for one attack before the tank resumes aggro, but the chance remains.
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A non blasting Empath defender draws no aggro from heals.. they can heal from range thus putting themselves in no risk.
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This argument also ignores the fact that you are subject to random and range based attacks.
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A bubble defenders bubbles do not draw aggro and do not create any risk.
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See above.
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Once a controller has a group locked down, the risk threat sinks to zero.
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Except the operative word here is "Once." Controller powers like many others are not 100 percent. Many of the AOE controller powers depending on your level may only remove the threat of melee attacks leaving you vulnerable to range attacks. the controller also gains an appropriate amount of aggro in the attempt exchanging a measure of risk to themselves in mitigating it for the group. Yes the may mitigate some of the risk but they do not remove it entirely.
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1-shot sniping mobs out of attack range is zero risk... should there be no XP awarded for that?
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Again this becomes more difficult at higher levels where mobs awareness may increase...it also is not 100 percent effective. I have also seen blasters attempt the buildup one shot and miss, drawing aggro. Or hit, knocking the enemy to a sliver in underestimation of his enemy.
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Once again, I'll ask how does powerleveling negatively affect yours, or anyone elses enjoyment in playing City of Heroes?
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It has been stated previously. The rate that players level and total character levels are data points that the devs use for analyzing game content and mechanics. If the developers make changes to the the content to limit the rate of advancement or skew zone developement to favor one caste of player over another it holds the potential to negatively effect others.
Doc Endeavor - (50) FF Defender
Gravewalker - (40) Emp Defender
Duty: The sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things, you can never do more-you should never wish to do less.
No its not cheating. But you are cheating yourself of the learnign experience of playing that toon. Also people will now have to deal with a toon that was not played normaly to that lvl so you will not know how to play it as good as sobody who had gone the normal route.
Atleast so far i have not had to deal with a ebayed char yet in coh. Those are the real loosers ya have to watchout for.
Give it a rest already. I have seen as many posts on this as I have on capes and SG. PL has no effect on me or the way I play the game. I dont care if the guy I'm standing next to levels 5 times in 1 min and has AFK stamped over his head. Big deal. Didnt hurt me one bit.
Its a bit dim to say that this is just a game and whatnot. This is the game site and the game boards! We are supposed to be taking it seriously here. Pling will not ruin lives! But it is important here because this is the game site.
For instance the qulity of bananas are important at the market but not here. There I will complain about bananas here I will not. Meanwhile, the guy at the market does not even know that I like this game.
Things count depending on the situation.
Actually, the translation is ;
I am unable to explain without sounding mean.
Further, I believe we are simplly on different planes of thought considering the statement I quoted.
Maybe I should have said you are completely wrong. (my response does sound a bit (ss'ish.
Might have been better.
Probably would have.
/shrug
Sorry to have trolled, baited or given snacks, should have simply said my peace and split.
Exploiting and hacking are cheating.
Everything else is personal opinion.
(In response to OP.)
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my only problem with powerleveling is that it throws off the real figures. then after making the data bunk by having someone else crazy pl them to at least a point where their archtype has some real powers and abilities ..... and then saying the game is too easy.
personally i could give a crap if a guy wants to earn his own way, ride a team's wake to level, have someone pl them while they do nothing, or straight out cheat in some exploit to level. if it's that important to them .... great.
but when it comes time to look at the real game and reall issues that are wrong with this game ... let's not take this kind of PLing into account and act like that's normal.
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This is all that needed to be said about this topic.
I salute you 
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Playing both empathy and FF defenders I suffer random attacks often even though I do not attack in combat.
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It's easy to avoid area/cone attacks.
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This argument also ignores the fact that you are subject to random and range based attacks.
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Threat level (aggro) is not random.
Proximity, damage, status effects and taunt all effect your threat level on a mob... healing does not.
In COH, you can heal without fear of your heals ever drawing aggro.
The same goes for bubbles and buffs.
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It has been stated previously. The rate that players level and total character levels are data points that the devs use for analyzing game content and mechanics. If the developers make changes to the the content to limit the rate of advancement or skew zone developement to favor one caste of player over another it holds the potential to negatively effect others.
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And you have yet to produce any examples or proof that would indicate that the developers (or any MMOG) are so ignorant of powerlevers thet they would make changes to game mechanics or content based on an accelerated rate of advancement.
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Actually, the translation is ;
I am unable to explain without sounding mean.
Further, I believe we are simplly on different planes of thought considering the statement I quoted.
Maybe I should have said you are completely wrong. (my response does sound a bit (ss'ish.
Might have been better.
Probably would have.
/shrug
Sorry to have trolled, baited or given snacks, should have simply said my peace and split.
Exploiting and hacking are cheating.
Everything else is personal opinion.
(In response to OP.)
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The over all message my post was conveying is "I don't have to be affected by something to care about it."
Please, please, PLEASE tell me how this wrong???? 
or were you going to attack the way I said it instead of what I said. I said it before, and I'll say it again, people on these boards need to seriously brush up on their interpetitive skills.
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The fact is, on most servers there are only a small handful of people who have actually earned a L50 character at this point.
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Well, I made 50th last Saturday. It took me over 530 hours to get there. So, just so I can tell if I actually "earned" my 50 levels or not, what are the magic qualifications? Is 530 hours too few? Do I have to put in another hundred or two? How many hours do you have in yours? Would help so that I can get an idea how far behind I am on qualifying?
Btw, just so you don't think I was playing one of the FOTM's, it was my Invulnerability Axe Tanker that I got to 50th. I have not yet seen another one of them myself that was over 40th level on Virtue. Maybe they are just hiding....
That's great! Were you standing at the station when you leveled? If so you may have been cheating.
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Finally it helps create situations where people with high level characters simply do not know how to play them because they never had to learn.
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And? Don't group with them if they can't play their characters well.
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And you have yet to produce any examples or proof that would indicate that the developers (or any MMOG) are so ignorant of powerlevers thet they would make changes to game mechanics or content based on an accelerated rate of advancement.
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But thats kind of the point. Because people are powerleveling the content has to be made to keep them as paying customers. So content development time gets invested in those who ran past all the content that was already in place. And while you may or may not agree with whether or not that's ok, you can hardly say that doesnt affect the non powelevelers game. We all want new things to do and try, whether they make those things for the 50's or for the 30's or for the teens will be something that poweleveling will affect - how could it not?
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Actually, I took one of my scrappers from 17 to 28 in about 2 and a half days without powerleveling.
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I know someone who routinely levels characters all the way to 50 in 2-3 days.
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The difference is that those things are against the law... they are illegal.
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Things ore outlawed because they are bad for the community as a whole. Laws are not the determinate of whether something is right or wrong they are a consequence. This means that it is very possible for something to be illegal when it should legal or legal when it should be illegal.
Appeals to the law on arguments about what should and should not be legal are inherently circular and should be discarded on site. Make no mistake in game terms that is what we are talking about. Legal = its ok and no action needs to be taken. Illegal = its not ok and the devs need to work to stop it. Sure you will never see a law about it since it does not effect society as a whole but laws are simply rules and for the community effected the analogy still holds.
Clearly power leveling falls under the second category and if you have any doubts about how they feel about it (it is their game and they ultimately make all the rules) consider the suspension to the person who posted about the anchor bug that many power levelers exploited several months ago.
Icarus
Your wings have melted on that one. Players that don't know how to play get you killed. Then, you have to deal with debt because there is no one to help you cheat your way out of it. Think first speak second.
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or were you going to attack the way I said it instead of what I said. I said it before, and I'll say it again, people on these boards need to seriously brush up on their interpetitive skills
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Perhaps you need to brush up on your communications skills.
When drawing an analogy you're best served to use two examples that have an easily recognizable connection or similarity.
Comparing a crime, punishable by law, to someone powerleveling in a video game is outrageous.
There is no apparent correlation between the two.
CONTENT....last i saw they made capes and auras not much new content IMO.....so i dont think they keep up with content. Realize this...most people that PL dont like missions anyway they like power...so they wil go from char to char after they get bored most wont reach 50 so whats it matter...they will get to 32 get there most valuable power then lvl to 38-40 then roll again. I know this look at all the people that PL they always have pretty powerfull builds. Or there just tired of doing the same thing over and over so they just want fun powers. The argument will go on forever and ever..how its cheating how its not. If you dont like it dont do it. I dont like dashboard confesional so i dont buy the cd, but everytime i hear someone listening to them i dont whine how they suck. Just let it be this is how the game is going to fall b/c everyone whines about how something is "wrong" may be going on.. look at the nerf war thats not stopping oooo well.
Yes there is. This is a kind of simulation, so real world analogies do fit. If it were pong things would be different.
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It has been stated previously. The rate that players level and total character levels are data points that the devs use for analyzing game content and mechanics. If the developers make changes to the the content to limit the rate of advancement or skew zone developement to favor one caste of player over another it holds the potential to negatively effect others.
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*snore*
Please read a thread before posting in it. This point has been made (and clearly refuted) about 6 seperate times in this post.
The developers do not look at numbers and "data points" in a vacuum. They are fully aware of certain techniques which speed the rate of advancement beyond that which is achievable by the "average" player, just like I'm sure they are fully aware that certain types of players are leveling much, much more slowly than the average person (poor power choices, dying too often and accruing prohibitive debt, etc.).
These are the "extremes" and/or outliers; when analyzing any data set the outliers are all but ignored in drawing any final conclusions, and there's no reason to believe that the developers don't do exactly that.
They want their changes to target their core audience, not the few hundred folks who happen to "enjoy" sitting at a train station while they watch TV in another room.
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There is something odd about going from 16-32 in a few days.
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Actually, I took one of my scrappers from 17 to 28 in about 2 and a half days without powerleveling.
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I don't have to be hurt by something to oppose it. Cheating on taxes, lying about disability or welfare fraud doesn't hurt me, but I oppose them.
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The difference is that those things are against the law... they are illegal.
Powerleveling is not agaisnt the rules and it is not cheating.
Complianing about powerleveling is akin to complaining about someone else being able to drive to and from work while you're stuck taking the bus.
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Actually, how's this: If you are not in aggro range (or some other close range) of a mob, you cannot gain XP from that mob.
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Not a bad idea but it will in no way curb powerleveling.