TheAdlerian

Like I said I'm new to the whole thing. I can't believe that someone would pay hundreds of dollors for a video game character. Its pretty unusual if step back and think about it.

In a strange twist, I recently found two web sites that where selling characters. The customer is charged a certain dollar amount per level and so total cost is determeined by what level you want your character to be. The other site was suggesting that PLing could be a kind of job that would net 300 per week. So, there's a kind of PLing mafia out there! Amazing!

EigoEahiek,

I’m sure that the designers thought about Pling issues long before I did. As I have mentioned before it is in their best interest to do so. I was outraged by what I saw as cheating and being approached by a guy that was leveling and selling characters. Frankly, I am new to the online gaming world and was shocked by the whole thing. Anyway, I’m sure that they will take steps to straighten it out.

When you step back and look at the game it’s great! The art work alone is fabulous. Sometimes I enjoy flying around and looking at what has been created. There is even fine detail in the upper buildings where no one goes. That’s quality!

I admire the designers for attempting to make an immerse world. People get into it. Sometimes players sound genuinely sad when someone dies! It’s great! Like I have said, the designers are trying to make something that is not real seem real and that’s the fun of it. Moves that break with reality help to shatter that illusion and are not fun.

I’m not on a crusade (what would be wrong with that anyway) but the thread keeps going and I’m hanging in there with it. Even this is a kind of a simulated issue of importance. Its all part of the world! Its fun!

Fascinating...

Ninja,
I respect your opinion. However, as I said there has been quite a positive reaction to the topic in a variety of areas, so I believe that many agree with me. The word game though is a bit boring. I believe that PLing violates the simulation quality of the game. Clearly, this is not a rule, but as mentioned, PLing in the form that I dislike violates the spirit of the simulation. Frankly, that was a basis for my original post.
In a way kill stealing is much the same. Its legal but its almost like the person is cheating. It's different in that it does hurt the other player but that's not against the rules. I could kill steal my way to the top if I wanted but who wouldn't say that I was cheating.
Anyway, I believe that the majority of the public has weighed in one way or another. Personal attacks are all that is left. I would have stopped posting two days ago if the last word syndrome hadn't kicked in.

Note: how does Miir know that I haven't left days ago? See these are the trolls. They have nothing to add except personalized crap.

Well then its much like cheating. Its the whole cheating/exploit thing, I think this is splitting hairs. Also, as I have mentioned I see less people doing it and hear a lot of people talking about it. It is thought to be a cheap undesirable activity by many. Maybe we should invent a new word for the activity; something between cheating and exploit.
Really, Its an unethical exploit especially when you add in those people that make characters just to sell them and whatnot. The argument that most people are just leveling alts really does not meet with my experience and has softened the topic a bit too, as I don‘t really mind them doing that. My original complaint had to do with the ridiculousness and lack of reality of watching people level while doing nothing. Clearly the designers are trying to do something about this, so the subtext is that they think its wrong. A person does not have to say something directly for the meaning to be known. This happens in conversation all the time. I’ve had girlfriends that say, “I’m OK,” when in fact they weren’t, and I could tell by the surrounding context. People do not always speak in the most blunt terms. If someone says go ahead and have fun and then tries to stop you from doing what they just were taking about, then what does that say?

gull

This thing should have ended long ago. I only ask that the simple question that I posed be answered. For me and many others the answer is clear. All over the boards and in the game people talk about it.

Frankly, I am annoyed by the "I have to get the last word in" nature of the situation. Smug people that think they are intellectual feel that they can somehow spin that I am wrong or bad make me laugh. It is a simple cover for their inability to acknowledge that they cheat and whatnot int the game. Its such a male stereotype.
Almost 10K people have read this post that says something. Only ahand full of you guys still tone in to tell me I'm wrong. I covered almost every argument that there is to cover. No one has countered them except to complain that I use the word cheater. What fresh arguments have been brought forth ever? None.
If people cannot answer my questions then stop posting. clearly the topic bothers you is you keep coming back. I said that Plers were from UFOs the topic would have died in the beginning because that would have been stupid. The subject is correct and has merit.

Anyway, do you think that the Statesman would really have used the term "cheater" that would not be good for business.

Also, I don't think that explaining Logic terms is an example of trolling. Its a public service.

*circular nature of your logic*

Do I have to explain circular logic now? I feel like a school teacher. We have discussed ethics, logic, and ways to develop one's character. I should be getting paid by your parents or loved ones!
The complaint that you can't play a game and not be at the game is not circular. It's just straight ahead logic.
Its a simple syllogism, which is one of the most basic forms of reasoning.
Syllogism
argument involving three propositions: a formal deductive argument made up of a major premise, a minor premise, and a conclusion. An example is “all birds have feathers, penguins are birds, therefore penguins have feathers.”

all games must have players present
Plers aren’t present at the game
therefore Plers aren’t playing the game

Your ego makes you say silly things. Its almost funny and is very childish. Have you been to school? This is now getting boring you have given two posts and have not been able to answer my dare. Are you daring---tenacious and persistent-- yes, but ahh... ?
to the rest:
Its nice that some people can now see the point.
I suppose that any rules can be changed for any game. If you where playing chess with a friend you could start making up new moves if you want-- who cares! Would you still be playing chess though? No.
The cheat crowd just won't learn! However, over the last few days I have seen almost no one PLing at the train station on my server. That's great, so at least some people got it.

Now
Lets take a bet when Icarus will stop posting.
1. when hell freezes over.
2. when hell cools down.
3.when he stops cheating
Oh well, betting is illegal in my state so we better not.

How many more posts will we see before my questions are answered? This is like the world's most boring soup opera...

So, you did not meet my dare, but attempted to trick and cheat your way out of it. This is behavior that we are all familiar with.

The “what will you do” and “Geko...Statesman...whoever!!” thread heavily reflect that many people have read my thread, agree with it and are proud that they played the game fairly. Many are proud of the fair way that they play the game.

I suspect that you are a “last word” artist that can’t seem to stop. Again a cool towel can be very nice.

I'll take that dare. Have a high level friend SK you. Go sit on the top of a sky scraper while they sweep the streets for villians and you gain XP and have a sandwhich in another room.

My friend,
Perhaps you have not been here for the whole of the conversation. That is entirely the point of the subject here. Someone standing at the station or on top of a building is no different. Seriously, you have lost the argument. Are you not smart enough to see that you have restated my intial point. Frankly, I'm starting to feel badly about abusing people that have difficulty reasoning. However, I believe that many people believe that they are "cool" for continuing to fight on. At some point it will only become embarassing, this may be that point. The Pling in question was the type you mentioned. It's time to stop.

Here’s a timely example! Many people are complaining that a group used cheats to kill the Hamidon creature. Using the logic that many have employed thus far, who cares if they did? If they found a way to enjoy the game by cheating and got a great victory then who cares?
Well many of us that want to play the game for real would care because their win would not be real. That group would be claiming to be something that it isn’t and that would be outrageous.
The same thing holds true for power leveling.
(I must say that I have no opinion about that group’s win, its just an example)

Also, I dare anyone to tell me how a person can play a game while not being at the site of the game. People can be 40 miles away from their computer and still gain ex! That’s cheating in the sense that you are creating a fraudulent character. Until someone can answer the question of being away from the game and having your character still be “playing” it makes no sense to continue any other argument. To me only the principle of the thing counts (please read my posts on ethics if you aren’t familiar with my stance).

The designers have weighed in, the rules imply that this behavior is an exploit, and steps are being taken to control this behavior. I have even spelled out the potential financial motivations of the company to figure out a method of control. All of this is important from many design and business angles and understandable by anyone smart enough to use a computer. If you are 12 to 17 just ask your dad about business rules and money matters.

My belief is that some people simply do not want to face the fact that PLing is indeed a form of cheating. It hurts to think that you are a cheater and other people aren’t. People are not jealous of cheaters and don’t want to be like them. As stated many times before its only a game! If you did it so what? If you realize that you were cheating and don’t like it then don’t do it again. If you want to keep cheating then who cares, that’s up to you, but don’t lie to yourself about it. The big thing is that the game is a simulation and it would be cool to play it that way. Pling violates any attempt at having a realistic situation.

Probably the most enjoyable way to play the game is to pretend that its real. Even the grind on the streets can be fun if you [censored] about it with your friends. Cheating is boring even in games that allow it, just like that team’s victory over Hamidon would be boring if it wasn’t real.


*note (Alert!)
I would love to hear comments about how a person can play and not even be in the same area code! I dare you to counter that argument.
If you can’t I suggest that you apply a cool towel to your forehead and call it a night.

Saying something is "just opinion" is not a very good reason. Most rules are "just opinion" in a sense. The whole thing about game design and being able to get ex while away at the store says it all. Cheat/exploit? Ask anyone on the street is playing a game while not being there makes any sense.
Let's stop the rationalization. Unless you want to keep going which is fun too.

Ankh_Agressor,

This is my first post here or anywhere of its kind. I know nothing about terms like "troll" as they are too boring for me to think about. Wanting a public reaction to something that you think is wrong is not wrong!
Hey lets have a thread where we make up silly terms for words that already exist.

farleftlib7, who cares?
The cheating/exploit thing is almost the same thing. The edge of a sheet of paper is greater than the difference.
I posted the question not because I was curious about the answer but because I wanted something done about it. I wanted to get the word out. Two emails to Statesman and thousands of views and hundreds of posts, I'm amazed!

To everyone taking notes, ^^ this is what happens when people run out of real things to say on a subject.

Icarus,
thanks for letting us know when you have run out of material!
Clearly, the question has been answered.

To others, I knew that PLing is cheating. I posed the question to provoke debate. There is no question that being able to earn ex while away from your computer is wrong in the sense of "playing" a game.
However, I have gained some sympathy for people and their alts. It would be nice to have options for those people. I like the idea that you can have an alt that is the same level to an existing character. However, few games of any kind allow you to restart in the middle, so I'm not sure if that's fair either.

Anyway, I'm amazed at the amount of attention this subject got and the amount of people that continued to post. It was pretty interesting for my first and possiblly last post!

The cheaters are wriggling like a fish on the hook

Techno,

I used to work wit hsome of the hardest criminals in the Philly area. They tend to use a lot of colorful language to describe their criminal behavior. For instance, they might call doing drug deals "a mission" which makes it sound cool. Usually I would break down what they were doing into plain language so that they feel it. A friend of mine used to always cheat on his girlfriends and call it adventure. I explained to him just much of a lying, using, ******* that he was for making nice girls into sucks. I turns out that he got the message and stopped doing that. Its called tough love (although I hate that term)
About Statesman,
I'm happy with his response. However, I just wish that they would have a timeout on immobile characters or something. I have no desire to wade through more of Bricktown if things just get harder.

Good job Green Jackel!
I wish that you were on champion!
How does everyone feel about the situation now?
I felt like I had to use a lot of harsh language, but it was worth it!
Also, I believe that the words cheat and exploit are pretty close. Its just a matter of word play!

gullsfan,

Don't be insulted by what you didn't do.
Please check the hundreds of other posts. As I have stated I have little interest in these boards and frankly do not know what "trolling" is. I just noticed what I thought was cheating and what something done about it.
This was a crazy fun fest though. The cheater mentality is very unique and seems to never change no matter where I see it.
Whether its Martha Stewart or Capt. Blaster its all the same crap!

Sorry about the misspelling.
I was writing something about how economics affects the "morale" of the poor. Writing too many things at once.

A plethora of sound reasons have been give already. The other side just keeps saying stuff about me, about how it affects no one, and that it is part of the rules. Those aren't reasons.

My bet is though that if people stop cheating both their morale and morals will increase.

A lot of fun! I hope that no one's feelings were too hurt in the process.
Right, I have never been interested in other games! This one seemed interesting to me. Just because cheating goes on elsewhere does not mean that it has to go on here.
I marvel at what went into the creation of this game and want to keep it as the cool simulation that it is. It is illogical to me how PLing is not a cheat and really my only compliant about it.

Also, ethics and morale are worth talking about because if you don't then someone else will talk about them for you. It happens all the time. Don't give up your right to an opinion because other people disagree. The cheaters of the world will role over people that don't speak up.
In all I have enjoyed both the view of the good, bad, and confused in this thread.
Also, lets hand it to Miir for injecting gay sex into the topic! What's that all about Miir?

To The_Shieldmaiden,
I do not recall that I ever gave you permission to taste me.

Miir,
Don't be too upset Miir, really I'm only talking about the logic related to the PLing thing.
Anyway, ethics are different from morales. As a psychologist I have a certain code of ethics that I must follow. I'm not able to date a patient, but say a lawyer or a doctor could. If I went out on a date with a patient I would get in big trouble with the psych board of ethics.
Morales are more global "universal" truths. If you believe in morales then you believe in a truth that is right in every situation. That's why religious people see being gay as being wrong because god said it was.
Ethics are made by people to govern certain situations. No one is being a bigot by not allowing me to have sex with my patients.
Ethics and morales are very interesting because they impact the way we live and paly!

Frankly Miir,

I'm a 37 year old clinical psychologist from Philadelphia.
I have a masters in health car admin.
A masters in counseling psychology
A masters in clinical psychology
A doctorate in clinical psychology
I have 15 years experience in the field of psychology.
I like people that take things seriously.
I never cheated to get any of those degrees.
I enjoy video games because they take me away from the human [censored] pile that I am used to dealing with. Can I get any more honest than that?
More importantly, what do you think about the Statesman?