Is PLing a Form of Cheating?
By
Agrippa_CoH,
Posted on: 2004-09-09 12:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Miir,
Don't be too upset Miir, really I'm only talking about the logic related to the PLing thing.
Anyway, ethics are different from morales. As a psychologist I have a certain code of ethics that I must follow. I'm not able to date a patient, but say a lawyer or a doctor could. If I went out on a date with a patient I would get in big trouble with the psych board of ethics.
Morales are more global "universal" truths. If you believe in morales then you believe in a truth that is right in every situation. That's why religious people see being gay as being wrong because god said it was.
Ethics are made by people to govern certain situations. No one is being a bigot by not allowing me to have sex with my patients.
Ethics and morales are very interesting because they impact the way we live and paly!
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no im just tired of the "fact" being stated that there is no work being done....i have posted that once and people are still saying"i have a problem with blah blah blah" when the majority that get pl'ed and pl do what i said...they pl each others alts. Not sensitive just tired of the lies.
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And I'm tired of people on the Broadcast channel spamming "PL me, Plz". If everyone is trading work with their Supergroups, no one would be doing this. Looks like an existence proof that at least *someone* or many someones are not using the method you're describing.
Anyway, I would be willing to bet 50k influence that this method of gaining XP is eliminated in the next couple months. Not because anyone whined, but because it was never intended and it slipped through the cracks when the game went live.
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and if you would read my earlier post it described this as sucking.....this is the only thing i find bad about it. Most people dont even PL the people that ask i have never met one person that has or will.
also no one said to "fall in line" im stating the fact as you do.....and its clearly been stated your arrogant comparing a game to taxes and crimes. I stated that because it has been an argument for almost every page. So to clear it up i stated what is actually being dont about PL'ing....its a group thing not just random people.
Also ethics and morals are really funny because eveyrone has different oppinions on them. Thats why it is best to never debate morals and ethics because if you really look at it anyone elses are just as right as yours, maybe not in your eyes but who's to say theres is wrong.
I will also clear up one more thing...talking about how its not right because no risk are involved. Be an illusion/ff defender 6 slot maneuvers 6 slot group invis 6 slot dispersion bubble 6 slot combat jumping....see how much of a risk you have. Then for the people you have on the team use the other 2 bubbles on them......there is your no risk. CoH you can make a char with no risk is that cheating?
This post can go on forever you can still argue how its "wrong and unethical" but so is swearing in the game....guess what they make a function for that to either see it OR not...OMG so then that gives you the option to do 1 or 2 things you can choose. Same with pl'ing if your mad b/c it takes you forever to lvl then get PL'd or just deal with it then when you get high enough and bored with the char you will see what im talking about. How its a BIG drag to level a new toon. Think about perez all over and how much that sucked i can guarantee you, you will more than likely take the easy road.
The best thing about this post is how many things it has been compared to.
<ul type="square"> [*]Tax fraud[*]Stealing a car[*]"a crime"[*]unethical....(its a freaking game...for some i know its your life)[*]Gay sex....(why is this even in here?)[/list]Probably more i just forgot them.....this very bad debate has lasted 2 days can you blame me.
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Frankly Miir,
I'm a 37 year old clinical psychologist from Philadelphia.
I have a masters in health car admin.
A masters in counseling psychology
A masters in clinical psychology
A doctorate in clinical psychology
I have 15 years experience in the field of psychology.
I like people that take things seriously.
I never cheated to get any of those degrees.
I enjoy video games because they take me away from the human [censored] pile that I am used to dealing with. Can I get any more honest than that?
More importantly, what do you think about the Statesman?
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I think Statesman is a great guy and I really enjoy his dream that made this game. But, that's not what you were referring too. Statesman stating in response to someone else's PM is in reference to how the game gets easier in the later levels(32+) and that they are working on upping mob hit points and making them harder. That is what he is referring too. That also references that if Player A sidekicks with Player B and they are teamed with Player C who is at the top of the 5 level mark and they are taking higher level mobs, it is going to be really hard for Player C. This will slow down the power leveling, but it wont stop it. And please, please, stop referring to what people are doing in game to extreme real life situations like referring to those of us who do not agree with you as criminals and children who do not know the difference between cheating and maximizing a game. You lose all credibilty in your argument, I believe that even though I do not agree with you, that your opinion matters as well. At least this thread as remained entertaining. 
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Frankly Miir,
I'm a 37 year old clinical psychologist from Philadelphia.
I have a masters in health car admin.
A masters in counseling psychology
A masters in clinical psychology
A doctorate in clinical psychology
I have 15 years experience in the field of psychology.
I like people that take things seriously.
I never cheated to get any of those degrees.
I enjoy video games because they take me away from the human [censored] pile that I am used to dealing with. Can I get any more honest than that?
More importantly, what do you think about the Statesman?
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You can be more honest...i want your SSN and your bday one credit card number and your full name. You don't mind if i buy anything rihgt?
To The_Shieldmaiden,
I do not recall that I ever gave you permission to taste me.
Also, ethics and morale are worth talking about because if you don't then someone else will talk about them for you. It happens all the time. Don't give up your right to an opinion because other people disagree. The cheaters of the world will role over people that don't speak up.
In all I have enjoyed both the view of the good, bad, and confused in this thread.
Also, lets hand it to Miir for injecting gay sex into the topic! What's that all about Miir?
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Statesman stating in response to someone else's PM is in reference to how the game gets easier in the later levels(32+) and that they are working on upping mob hit points and making them harder.
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Thanks gullsfan and vicwrx for the clarification. I was trying to read his response as an answer to the question "why does powerlevelling happen", or perhaps "why is powerlevelling is not 'an intended or acceptable' form of gameplay." He's addressing how people can do it and what they're doing to fix it. Gotcha. (My highest level character is only level 27, so I haven't experienced the game-play at the levels you're talking about.)
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Also, lets hand it to Miir for injecting gay sex into the topic! What's that all about Miir?
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I believe you made a comparison to **** and date ****. I think I'll take homosexuals for 100 Alex than something as harsh as that.
This post is going nowhere and I apologize if I've went a little too far knocking TheAdlerian. I've tried to explain it in a manner as many others have but you refuse to consider it anything other than cheating.
You obviously have no experience in any other MMOG or this wouldn't be a issue as much as it has for you. All of these games have some form of pl'ing involved. It's part of power-gaming, love it or hate it is a popular form of playing.
CuppaJo has to be on vacation or something. I can't believe this has lasted as long as it has without being locked. It was amusing though and a interesting read I'll say that. 
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Also, ethics and morale
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Okay, this has been bugging me.
It's "morals", not "Morale"!
Morale is an entirely different subject.
That is all.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
A lot of fun! I hope that no one's feelings were too hurt in the process.
Right, I have never been interested in other games! This one seemed interesting to me. Just because cheating goes on elsewhere does not mean that it has to go on here.
I marvel at what went into the creation of this game and want to keep it as the cool simulation that it is. It is illogical to me how PLing is not a cheat and really my only compliant about it.
Thank god someone else posted. We have a morale officer that, quite frankly, has little morals. We are happy when he stabs us in the back.
Got it?
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It is illogical to me how PLing is not a cheat and really my only compliant about it.
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We humans are a funny bunch. I find it illogical how you can think that PLing is a cheat. Oh well, I don't think any abstract example anyone can give is going to suddenly make the other side go Doh! now I get.
Sorry about the misspelling.
I was writing something about how economics affects the "morale" of the poor. Writing too many things at once.
A plethora of sound reasons have been give already. The other side just keeps saying stuff about me, about how it affects no one, and that it is part of the rules. Those aren't reasons.
My bet is though that if people stop cheating both their morale and morals will increase.
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"Is standing in a safe zone (like next to a police drone) while higher level teammates level you up considered an intended or acceptable form of behaviour on the part of players?"
His reply:
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Originally posted by Statesman:
No - it's a side consequence of the game being too easy at certain levels. I'm looking into it.
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I'd really say that Jack's reply is the answer to the whole question.
Is it considered acceptable? No. It's being looked at.
THAT tells me, should tell us all, that AFK powerleveling, aka reward without risk (and he's stated in the past that he considers any event of reward without risk to be an exploit) is not considered to be acceptable play.
So, it's being looked at. How can they fix the problem? Make the game a little harder... and voila, there's the answer to all of the people who asked "How does my afk-PL'ing affect you?"
regards,
The Green Jackel
50 [color=black]Defender (Rad/Dark)
[color=green]...and Black Jaguar, Stalker!
[color=purple]..:Infinity Server:..
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It is illogical to me how PLing is not a cheat and really my only compliant about it.
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ARRGH! You did it again. This is the exact statement that is throwing people over the edge! Ok, not really. But this is the statement. I posted earlier about this. You stated an example that showed PLing was not cheating. I posted the message below.
And I'm upset that I didn't get any laughs for the whole SAX thing. Guess I need to work on my standup routine.
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Guys its cheating.
NinjaPirate knows what he's talking about. Its clear that the guy has a professional attitude and knowledge base.
To Icarus and the bunch please tell me what is cheating? What more would one have to do? Being afk and still collecting points in a game. If a person is Pling at the station it would be possible for them to be at the supermarket shopping. How is this playing a game?
Its cheating.
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Then stop saying PLing is cheating. It's possible to PL and not cheat. Yet the blanket statement "PL is cheating" is being stated over and over.
You just qualified it yourself by stating "if the person is PLing at the station..." This means it's possible to PL somewhere else and *gasp* contribute to the team.
The definition issue has been brought up by both "sides." Please stop using the term powerleveling and call it what it is...
Non-contributing team members gaining XP while in relatively safe areas.
The problem is everyone likes simple and descriptive terms. PL doesn't really describe this yet it's being used over and over again. (and yes, it's that definition thing again) I propose a new term for this behavior. Silly AFK XP, for now on please use the term SAX. This in no way should be associated with the wind instrument but clever referals to sex will get bonus points.
Something like... Hey! Check out the lowbie in Bricks SAXing it up!
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On Justice
Super Goober, Scrankster, Dusty McFluffy, SuperHappyFun and others
_____________________________________________
Daily affirmation: net helpmsg 4006
I'm going to need a hacksaw. -- Jack Bauer
I just lost my chicken - Bubbles
Aaawwk! I can feel it in my choadies - Hank Venture
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Sorry about the misspelling.
I was writing something about how economics affects the "morale" of the poor. Writing too many things at once.
A plethora of sound reasons have been give already. The other side just keeps saying stuff about me, about how it affects no one, and that it is part of the rules. Those aren't reasons.
My bet is though that if people stop cheating both their morale and morals will increase.
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Actually I have yet to call you a name and I am on the other "side" of this argument. I have posted examples and facts about the situation and you have yet to respond to any of my posts. It leads me to believe that you may be trying to incite argument or "trolling". You may not, but you only respond to those that are frustrated with you.
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Okay, I PMed Statesman directly.
I asked:
"Is standing in a safe zone (like next to a police drone) while higher level teammates level you up considered an intended or acceptable form of behaviour on the part of players?"
His reply:
Quote:
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Originally posted by Statesman:
No - it's a side consequence of the game being too easy at certain levels. I'm looking into it.
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You asked him the wrong question. The topic here is "Is powerleveling cheating?" Ask him that and see what he says.
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THAT tells me, should tell us all, that AFK powerleveling, aka reward without risk (and he's stated in the past that he considers any event of reward without risk to be an exploit) is not considered to be acceptable play.
So, it's being looked at. How can they fix the problem? Make the game a little harder... and voila, there's the answer to all of the people who asked "How does my afk-PL'ing affect you?"
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That's faulty logic.
COH would still be too easy even without powerleveling.
gullsfan,
Don't be insulted by what you didn't do.
Please check the hundreds of other posts. As I have stated I have little interest in these boards and frankly do not know what "trolling" is. I just noticed what I thought was cheating and what something done about it.
This was a crazy fun fest though. The cheater mentality is very unique and seems to never change no matter where I see it.
Whether its Martha Stewart or Capt. Blaster its all the same crap!
personally, i could care less about some guy just standing in one spot while their buddy or some guy they paid real money for the service gets them xp's. the guy getting power leveled runs the risk of leveling out of his contacts, thus running into the problem later of missing out on one facet of the game. their loss, not mine.
How many of these PLers are brand new players who have never leveled a character to 50?
I find it interesting that no one in this thread has asked this question. If someone has already done the grind to 50, and just wants to experience other ATs at higher levels, is it wrong for them to get them PLd past some of the difficult (or annoying) levels?
Not really taking a stance for or against PLing, just posing a perspective that might have been missed. After reading this thread, one might think hoardes of people were buying CoH, then getting insta PLd the moment they opened the box.
Its been my experience that in this (and many other) MMORPGs, the PLers tend to be the ones who have already experienced the game content and would be quitting without a shortcut to the higher levels for their Alts.
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You asked him the wrong question. The topic here is "Is powerleveling cheating?" Ask him that and see what he says.
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He asked if it was considered acceptable behavior, and the answer was no.
How much more clearly does he have to spell it out? It's not that hard to read between the lines is it?
The Green Jackel
50 [color=black]Defender (Rad/Dark)
[color=green]...and Black Jaguar, Stalker!
[color=purple]..:Infinity Server:..
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THAT tells me, should tell us all, that AFK powerleveling, aka reward without risk (and he's stated in the past that he considers any event of reward without risk to be an exploit) is not considered to be acceptable play.
So, it's being looked at. How can they fix the problem? Make the game a little harder... and voila, there's the answer to all of the people who asked "How does my afk-PL'ing affect you?"
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That's faulty logic.
COH would still be too easy even without powerleveling.
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Faulty logic?
The question posed was Is it intended/acceptable behavior, and the answer was No.
As far as "it's being looked into" - is it faulty logic to postulate that if changes are made to the game to curb this sort of unacceptable behaviour, these changes COULD affect all of us.
This issue has been analogized to death, but the old "that kid shoplifting isn't hurting me/yes he is because we will all be penalized by the increase in prices necessary to counterbalance his theft" analogy is a fairly decent one.
The Green Jackel
50 [color=black]Defender (Rad/Dark)
[color=green]...and Black Jaguar, Stalker!
[color=purple]..:Infinity Server:..
And yet with all those degrees and accomplishments, you still cannot differentiate the mindset of people in a game vs people in the real world. Comparing us to convicts... lol