Is PLing a Form of Cheating?

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The Dev team IS working to stop all exploits and power leveling cheats out there, the SK level range one being between them. The Devs obviously also think that is not right.

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Powerlevelling is as simple as sidekicking the target and having them follow at whatever range is allowed. There is no way to prevent such other than to mandate something like requiring every person to do a point of damage to get the xp reward, and that won't work given support ATs exist that validly aren't dealing a lick of damage.

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The Dev team IS working to stop all exploits and power leveling cheats out there

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Please, provide a link to this information. Anything the developers have ever said indicating they are "working to stop" power leveling, or even that they think it is an issue that needs addressing would be greatly appreciated. A post? A news item? A patch note? An interview? I'm talking specifically about power leveling, not about XP exploits - because until the Developers indicate otherwise, powerleveling does not fall into the same category as an XP exploit, whether you like it or not.

Or, is this another case of "I want it, so it must be so?"

uh ... yeah. i think that comparing PLing to e bay is pretty fair after playing or betaing in pretty much any and every mmorpg that i could get my hands on after richard "LB" garriot hooked me with UO.

because ... that's where all my stuff went when i got bored of it. sold on the e bay. and there is no better way to guarantee boredom than to be powerleveled.

first, most powerleveled people look like idiots because they don't know how to use their character. second, groups hate that. and lastly, ven if you know how to use your guy and groups love you too .... you didn't earn your guy so most likely you have the same amount of appreciation for him or the game that someone who did earn their guy has.

and believe me, i am not against e bay or people selling items, acounts or whatever the hell they want to on e bay. it was their time, their investment, thei everything and if they want to sell it off ... fine. and no, there is no need for the devs to get paid for any of this except in the ways they should be.

one, the game key code and software (buying an account does not mean buyin the software). if you sold or stole your key code ... well, you're jut a thief [censored].

two, the monthly fee paid to kep the account active.

after that, the makers/pubishers aren't owed crap. anything else is as lame as an apartment complex making you pay a "reaplication fee", at this point of nickling and diming, i walk out the door.

but definatley that is part of the population that you see busting out the PL. guys gets an acount to a certain point and can see it for 270 bucks? yeah, it's chump change .... but it's chump change that pays for the software he bought for himself, the software he bought for his dummy account, he software for his next dummy account, and 8 months of playing time (spread however you want over those accounts).

just in that case you hav a guy who hasn't had to pay a dime because of how easy PLing is in coh ... and has the software code key he needs to pay for the next year with very litle work.

frankly i got nogripe with the guy who takes his blaster and PLs out another account, or even PLs it both ways .... by himself.

but if you are some scumbag POS that comes out with your two characters and gets busted two boxing because you suck at playing either of your characters ...

... then you should just accept you are a scumbag an move on.

but to sum it all up, equating E baying and Pling is not a stretch by any means .... in fact, it is the connection that makes the most sense to the two boxing PL guy. and it should .. it makes sense. he likes the game. he wants the game to pay for itself, somewhere there is a casual player who wants to buy an account but doesn't want to casually game up to the higher levels.

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Actually, let's not get rid of the link. The purpose of any message board is to discuss the issues at hand. In some cases, some of us will attempt to convince others that our opinions have some validity. If we fall into *known* fallacies, we are miscommunicating, either purposely or in ignorance, and basically wasting each others' time (except for comedic effect or fanboi/troll conversations.)

One of the reasons that discourse on the 'Net and in other media has become so shrill is that folks cannot distinguish between valid arguments and logical fallacies.

5 stars to the person who posted the link for helping to educate.

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I would rather have a message board alive in variety, and color of posts, than a sterile board where everyone follows those rules (not rules period, just those referred rules). Even if it means putting up with idiotic statements, exclamations, or whatever else. I accept and embrace imperfection.

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A fallacy is a fallacy. Period. You're basically saying, "I'd rather people speak nonsensically and not be challenged for doing so."

Btw, the link doesn't list rules for argument, it lists logical flaws in argument techniques.

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I accept and embrace imperfection.

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That says so much.

You sound like the poor man who envies the privileged wealthy. Some people are born to privilege. Some people have to work for it. Thats the way of the world. Success is not always about how hard you work but more who you know. If there were a limited amount of XP in the game it would make sense to be angry at PLers. But there is not. XP, like monetary wealth, is generated not accumulated. The poor man tries to generate all his wealth on his own. The wealthy man uses the power of relationships and networking to get others to generate his wealth for him. The poor man works the job. The wealthy man works the workers. This is the way of life. Learn it and prosper. Or complain about it in poverty.

On the other hand, there is a BIG difference between someone who has worked their way to lvl 40 and someone who PLed there. The former knows how to use the toon in a very optimal way while the later does not. The former will be able to continue on his own without being PLed while the later will not (as effectively). The later was given a fish while the former made his own fishing pole. If you need to feel superior in anything you can value the skills that YOU as a player develop in playing the game, not the virtual skills of your toon. Bill Gates is very wealthy but I'll bet you that he cant write a flight simulator on his own.

The only way it effects you is that it may cheapen the hard work you put in if everyone thinks that you just PLed to the top like the rest of them. I think that is the real reason why you are upset. You want your work to result in something that is exclusively valuable. Well, too bad. You can work for $1M or have it given to you. No one knows the difference or cares. You need to change your values and stop thinking of the game as work or effort. If you just have fun playing it and dont focus so much on the XP then your experience will be much more rewarding. You cant change the world if you cant change yourself.

By powerleveling i mean not playing like crazy, but cheating around the SK rules to get more insane xp.

If you dont remember last big patch had a change made to SK so that it stoped giving xp to teamed low level members, forsing them to Sk if they wanted xp, numerous posts were done about new exploints now posible and not sure if it was Geko or another dev, but they mentioned they are working on further fix these problems.

I will try to dig the posts up.

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Powerlevelling is as simple as sidekicking the target and having them follow at whatever range is allowed. There is no way to prevent such other than to mandate something like requiring every person to do a point of damage to get the xp reward, and that won't work given support ATs exist that validly aren't dealing a lick of damage.

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Please note that the issue that most anti-PLing folks in this thread is NOT just higher level folks running around teamed with lower level folks.

It is parking the lower levels at a safe spot while the higher levels run around hitting mobs that are no risk to them. This is futzing with the rules to eliminate the risk while gaining the reward.


-np

Funny, how it's been proven that gaining xp at a train affects others game, but that is ignored.
Here's a suggestion: get rid of the drones. Make no safe havens. If th emajority of the gamers are cool with that kind of PL'ing, then it will be fine.
If not, then we will have some frontier justice. Maybe, mobs wandering intot he trains by "accident."
Or is that what some of you guys are afraid of?

Hey Revolver!

Frankly, I might have been pushing it a bit but really no more that many were pushing it with the rationalizations. I have been quite honest about how I felt. Almost no one has been able to admit that it is a cheat, but many people imply that they know it is, but don’t care. Also, at least two people have invented game encounters with me that did not happen, and these kind of comments have caused me to react by saying the unpleasant truth.

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uh ... yeah. i think that comparing PLing to e bay is pretty fair after playing or betaing in pretty much any and every mmorpg that i could get my hands on after richard "LB" garriot hooked me with UO.

because ... that's where all my stuff went when i got bored of it. sold on the e bay. and there is no better way to guarantee boredom than to be powerleveled.

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Boredom and Ebaying have nothing to do with each other.

I deleted Dark Age of Camelot and Shadowbane off my computer last week. Neither account was Ebayed. So much for that linkage.

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first, most powerleveled people look like idiots because they don't know how to use their character.

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Hmmm, I've played a Radiation/Electrical Defender and a Kinetics/Psychic one. How much that most of what I need to know about playing a Radiation/Psychic I already possess even though I've never played such a combination? Moreover, being PL'd doesn't say that the person never plays the character outside of being PL'd.

Erratic, do you feel so insecure about your own opinions that you must send me a PM since i set you on ignore list?

Do you lack that much attention?

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Actually, let's not get rid of the link. The purpose of any message board is to discuss the issues at hand. In some cases, some of us will attempt to convince others that our opinions have some validity. If we fall into *known* fallacies, we are miscommunicating, either purposely or in ignorance, and basically wasting each others' time (except for comedic effect or fanboi/troll conversations.)

One of the reasons that discourse on the 'Net and in other media has become so shrill is that folks cannot distinguish between valid arguments and logical fallacies.

5 stars to the person who posted the link for helping to educate.

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I would rather have a message board alive in variety, and color of posts, than a sterile board where everyone follows those rules (not rules period, just those referred rules). Even if it means putting up with idiotic statements, exclamations, or whatever else. I accept and embrace imperfection.

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A fallacy is a fallacy. Period. You're basically saying, "I'd rather people speak nonsensically and not be challenged for doing so."

Btw, the link doesn't list rules for argument, it lists logical flaws in argument techniques.

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I accept and embrace imperfection.

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That says so much.

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You say that as though I were supoosed to be insulted.

Ahhh, the beautiful appearance of:

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*** You are ignoring this user ***


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Its easy Lungorthar, if you're ignoring me, I'm definitely ignoring you and hence getting the above when you attempt to reply. Brings a spot of joy to my heart too.

Continue to reply if you will, but I'm not seeing it.

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The Dev team IS working to stop all exploits and power leveling cheats out there, the SK level range one being between them. The Devs obviously also think that is not right.

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Powerlevelling is as simple as sidekicking the target and having them follow at whatever range is allowed. There is no way to prevent such other than to mandate something like requiring every person to do a point of damage to get the xp reward, and that won't work given support ATs exist that validly aren't dealing a lick of damage.

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That is not power leveling. Is your whole arguement based on that belief? I hope not...

How does the fact that one player is willing to work hard and give up XP for another player cheating? Sounds like friendship and team oriented to me. Have you thought of the fact that the guy out fighting for the XP and inf pays for the game too? Have you thought about the fact that many of us enjoy the game in different ways and thats the reason CoH is so much fun?

Oh wait.... from your posts you obviously don't think about much except trying to force others to do things your way.. seeems rather... "5th"... to me. I happen to be one of the players that runs about working his butt off to help his lower lvl SG members get alts to our current SG lvl for TF's and such. And believe me... no one is getting something for free, it actually costs me a lot of time to gain XP for a group of 3 by myself.. although, the witty commentary from my safely hidden mates does make the time go more enjoyably.

It's too bad there are so many narrow minded and simple people posting on the CoH boards trying to represent the rest of us... IMHO thats the most diminishing aspect of the community.

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I spent the best part of 2-3 weeks getting my tank to lvl 32 (yes 2-3weeks! i actually like to play missions and TF's rather than run around on the streets beating up random mobs) so why should I spend hours levelling up someone else.

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Um... I have been playing for 2 months and my highest level toon is 14. 2-3 weeks is NOT a lot of time.

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How does the fact that one player is willing to work hard and give up XP for another player cheating? Sounds like friendship and team oriented to me. Have you thought of the fact that the guy out fighting for the XP and inf pays for the game too? Have you thought about the fact that many of us enjoy the game in different ways and thats the reason CoH is so much fun?

Oh wait.... from your posts you obviously don't think about much except trying to force others to do things your way.. seeems rather... "5th"... to me. I happen to be one of the players that runs about working his butt off to help his lower lvl SG members get alts to our current SG lvl for TF's and such. And believe me... no one is getting something for free, it actually costs me a lot of time to gain XP for a group of 3 by myself.. although, the witty commentary from my safely hidden mates does make the time go more enjoyably.

It's too bad there are so many narrow minded and simple people posting on the CoH boards trying to represent the rest of us... IMHO thats the most diminishing aspect of the community.

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I know you didn't just under handedly refer to anti PLers as Nazi's, did you? That's a bit more harsh than is called for.

I know you saw it while replying to me, seems you hurt realy bad.

I'm glad that you don't mind helping people cheat Firenuke. What would be better is to go on their missions and kill the hard ones while getting no ex. That would help your friends develop their skills and would really be a benefit to them. That would be real help. Other times you could do your own thing. Later you would have skilled friends that would know how to help. Now that would be a bond.
Also it is not Nazi-like to want to have a game played by the rules. Did you watch the olympics?

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The Dev team IS working to stop all exploits and power leveling cheats out there, the SK level range one being between them. The Devs obviously also think that is not right.

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Powerlevelling is as simple as sidekicking the target and having them follow at whatever range is allowed. There is no way to prevent such other than to mandate something like requiring every person to do a point of damage to get the xp reward, and that won't work given support ATs exist that validly aren't dealing a lick of damage.

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That is not power leveling. Is your whole arguement based on that belief? I hope not...

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Powerlevelling is doing no work to gain the reward. You care to offer another definition?

Where in the rules does it dictate a player must act a certain way to gain XP while on a team? Could you please direct me, I can't find it.


EDIT: just for thought..

The other day myself an some co-workers went to Tim Hortens for coffe and doughnuts. I used the moey I made at work to buy my friends their coffee and doughnuts and we sta at a table and enjoyed ourselves. I did not buy anything for the guy at the table beside us, or anyone else for that matter.. should I be punished or tossed in jail? Was that immoral? Bad bad me.... I guess I better not ever do anything for a friend again...

Firenuke I guess that the developers did not include a list of cheats in their manual. Their mistake I guess.

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The Dev team IS working to stop all exploits and power leveling cheats out there, the SK level range one being between them. The Devs obviously also think that is not right.

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Powerlevelling is as simple as sidekicking the target and having them follow at whatever range is allowed. There is no way to prevent such other than to mandate something like requiring every person to do a point of damage to get the xp reward, and that won't work given support ATs exist that validly aren't dealing a lick of damage.

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That is not power leveling. Is your whole arguement based on that belief? I hope not...

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Powerlevelling is doing no work to gain the reward. You care to offer another definition?

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You can refer to one of my earlier posts if you like, however I'll do my best to repeat it now.

There is a loophole involving SKing and then the master joining a team while the SK is out of range. The SK gets much higher xp than is intended. I'm afraid I don't know the details. There are other such "loopholes".

I personally define power leveling as anything outside of the +/- 8 level range that the game allows (besides standard SKing). A level 1 being driven to 40 by skirting the rules is power leveling. A level 1 simply SKd to a level 40 is not power leveling. It's just laziness.

This is why I refer to PLers as exploiters/cheaters. Because by my definition they are using loopholes and workarounds to gain an unfair advantage.

Buying doughnuts is not a game and there are no rules to the activity.

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Powerleveling is doing no work to gain the reward. You care to offer another definition?

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Erratic, this is the third time in this thread alone you have gotten hung up on arguing semantics and definitions rather than focusing on the main thrust of the arguements. Hopefully this is not your only tactic to argue your case?

Well, some folks apparantly consider just grouping with high levels powerleveling, no matter if the lower level person is fighting alongside the higher level or not.

Others define it as just when you team up thusly and leave the lower level parked in a safe place, going to hunt mobs that are no threat to the high level so the lower level gets scads of XP for just standing there.

Most folks are having issues with just the second category.


-np