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If you make a map, or texture, or sound or anything else of the like to be used with the game, it is a derivative.
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This guy is a trip...any real modder knows the games he can mod or canNOT mod. They must analyze the ToS and expressly follow it to the letter. Apparently he either doesn't care to understand or truly isn't capable of understanding the wording here.
A client side mod that shows a pron pic instead of the Perez map is not a derivative. It's a pron pic. Likewise, the crafted map(s) are also not derivatives. Is my desktop wallpaper a derivative of Windows (or whatever)? Editing a pic file of an in-game logo or something is a good example of derivision of software. Replacing a picture of a star with your hand flipping the bird is not. THIS FUNCTIONALITY IS BUILT INTO THE SOFTWARE. However if this war of people who want to destroy mods or kiss dev @ss keeps up, they will most likely remove this functionality.
Do these people understand that modding MAKES OR BREAKS games???
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Additionally, once the game is loaded into memory, the memory space which the game occupies is part of the "software." Since any new files you put in to be loaded by the game would now be occupying the memory space, you have just altered the software.
Cheers,
The Spyder
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Holy HELL this guy can spit some crap. Tell you what...anyone who believes this simply go to the nearest place that would have a professional programmer and ask him if this is the case. I'm SERIOUS...he really pulled that one from you-know-where...
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verybody, on the grounds that a couple of them *might* cheat, expect resistance. Refer to the complaints about the 9,999 influence limit
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IIRC, they are upping that with update 2.
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Likewise, the crafted map(s) are also not derivatives.
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How is the map patch not a derirvative work? It is almost identicle to the regular maps, with a few modifications. It was MADE FROM ( read: Derived) from the game files. I seriously doubt there is a court or board that would support that position of the patch not being derivitive.
And for the whole this is not modifiying the client? The client IS the City of Heros folder. Whne I use either a sound mod or the map patch, my client performs differently - because it HAS been modified.
Now, I don't care/understand this move of banning such threads/discussion on this board. It gives them legal highground in any of several possible instances, and makes it more consistant for them to say this now, then have to change their stance later if something comes up.
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And It is not neccesarily CuppaJo's move. I do moderate a message board, and do you think the admin does all - or even most - of the dirty work that the posters can quote? No, that is part of why we are there.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Whether or not map patches are derivative is irrelevant.
Cryptic does not want any discussions of game modifications here.
That is all.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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And for the whole this is not modifiying the client? The client IS the City of Heros folder. Whne I use either a sound mod or the map patch, my client performs differently - because it HAS been modified.
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No, the client IS NOT the CoH folder. By your definition, if I drop my keybinds.txt into the CoH folder, I have modified the client. If I have my Hero Creator, or HeroStats under the same folder, I have modified the client. This is quite obviously an absurd notion.
The client is the program, and associated files, created by the installer. The folder is little more than a designation as to where to find it. You seem to be implying that if I rename "C:\City Of Heroes" to "C:\Cryptic Nerfed Me", then I have modified the client.
Besides, the map patches, texture mods, sound mods, and such did not modify a single one of these files. They were added. External. The client *chose* to load these over the compressed data. We were using a built-in capability of the client. Now, if we were to unpack the .piggs, change the data, and recompress them, then yes, we would be modifying the game files. Nobody has argued that.
Let me try this in simple terms, for those who still don't get it.
Adding files that you created, in a folder you created, does not modify the client. You have not touched Cryptic's software.
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Well, since it's all wrapped up and done, where exactly are we going to discuss the mods now that we can't do it here? Any good forums? I checked IGN's CoH board and that was too cluttered for my tastes.
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I just opened up a mod forum here on the Unofficial CoH forums. These forums don't get much traffic, but I'm hoping that they will pick up steam one day. Anyways, you can talk about/post mods to your heart's content there.
I'm Tealeaf, and I approve of this message.
See [URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=2134817#post2134817"]Useful Tagging for the good of the Forum[/URL], my guide to tags.
Hey CuppaJo did you read your own TOS?
This is from your TOS
(c) Member Content. Members can upload to and create content on our servers in various forms, such as in selections you make and characters and items you create for City of Heroes, and in bulletin boards and similar user-to-user areas (“Member Content”). By submitting Member Content to or creating Member Content on any area of the Service, you acknowledge and agree that such Member Content is the sole property of NC Interactive. To the extent that NC Interactive cannot claim exclusive rights in Member Content by operation of law, you hereby grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Member Content has expressly granted) to NC Interactive and its related Game Content Providers a non-exclusive, universal, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicenseable right to exercise all rights of any kind or nature associated with such Member Content, and all ancillary and subsidiary rights thereto, in any languages and media now known or not currently known.
Guess i'm missing something. 
The key words are:
"Upload" and "Create" content for City Of Heroes.
NOT
"Modify" or "Alter" content for City Of Heroes.
Anything you upload, fan art, fan movies, and fan fiction is all property of NCSoft and Cryptic Studios. I'm guessing (MAYBE) if you make a new skin for COH you should probably send it to the art team so that they can work with it and possibly implement it.
However,
You cannot ALTER the files in COH because that will leave it vulnerable for hacking, trojans, etc. Best to just send your new content in rather than tell other people how to modify intergal game files.
This reminds me a lot about Neverwinter Nights
The thing about NWN is it's very consumer friendly. They have the law that you can't modify the software, but like it seems with CoH, there is a folder called Override. Which does just that, any file put in that folder will override the main file upon uploading. No alteration is done, nothing is hacked, it just reads the override file first.
They have cracked down one people who modify the exe file... there was a camera hack for a while ( that let you move the camera view to a first person and increased the range ) that they were against, and eventually put into the actual game client themselves. Thing is, all this stuff IS client side. You can only do so much client side... as far as I know you can't get free XP or influence because the server will say "no, you didn't kill that because I didn't see it" client is just that... client, what you the single person see and nobody else.
Now granted, an MMO is a whole different creature when it comes to modding, can easily talk about UT and Quake and NWN and such, they have online aspects but pretty much everything is between a group of people. You and a person connect to each other and play. MMO's deal with servers owned by someone, paid for by customers and have to deal with everyone. The others don't have to, they can sell the base product and let people go to town, they have their money... they don't have to contually watch things like an MMO where monthly is where your money comes from.
In my eyes, an override folder is a good thing, it's only for the one person, granted viruses and such can happen but well, that's a risk you take and sometimes you just find guides anyway ( I believe the sound one just dealt with making a blank file or such ). Now yes, bots and such are wrong I think, they allow someone to have an advantage over another. Stores on a map don't, disabling sounds don't... I mean in the map you get with the game, the stores are on it... there isn't an exact placement cause the maps are small, but you can find it easily if you just look in the general area.
I do understand the legal ramifications, and I believe that's really what it comes down to. There have always been the "constant threat" of infringing copywrites of the various comic book companies, and I suppose it would be easy to have a superman logo or such on your chest... but you know what? Only you would see it. Again, it's all client side... the things on the servers can't be modified without directly hacking the server itself. You can't send fake info to the server because the server won't believe it. It does all the calculations, it does all the results, you just tell it what you want to do, and it does it for you.
I see why they are cracking down, but then again... I don't see why. Suppose that's how it works though
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Well, since it's all wrapped up and done, where exactly are we going to discuss the mods now that we can't do it here? Any good forums? I checked IGN's CoH board and that was too cluttered for my tastes.
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I just opened up a mod forum here on the Unofficial CoH forums. These forums don't get much traffic, but I'm hoping that they will pick up steam one day. Anyways, you can talk about/post mods to your heart's content there.
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You should put a link to that in your sig.
Ok Zod, done.
Does anyone have any portion of the "how to disable looping sounds" thread by Spyder? If so, can they post it in mod sub or email it to me so that it is available again? It was too good a post to loose.
I'm Tealeaf, and I approve of this message.
See [URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=2134817#post2134817"]Useful Tagging for the good of the Forum[/URL], my guide to tags.
OK so this where i'm haveing a problem the game is Present day kinda..... However, our maps don't have any landmark names. And we can't add anything that will stay from zone to zone.
Haveing said that, if useing the "Map Hack" is bad, whats the time frame on getting Waypoints that will stay with the toon? And if that doesn't happen and we can't use the map hack anymore I'm just going to print out the maps.
the info is there now. your not going to stop people from useing it. It is just easyer to have it in game.
On a side note. Has anyone seen any gas stations in the game?
I see lots of cars but no gas stations. Hmmmm.........
Tealleaf, I've posted pic of my stuff, but dont have a place to put em up for d/l yet. added your board to my sig too 
I appreciate that! But you might want to say somewhere in the sig that this is for talking about mods.. the url doesn't really say much about that.
There are a few mods posted there now, including the map patch and some looping sound killers. Hopefully I'll get more emailed to me so I can link them also.
I'm Tealeaf, and I approve of this message.
See [URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=2134817#post2134817"]Useful Tagging for the good of the Forum[/URL], my guide to tags.
I added my input up there, I'll update the sig too.
[ QUOTE ]
If you make a map, or texture, or sound or anything else of the like to be used with the game, it is a derivative. Additionally, once the game is loaded into memory, the memory space which the game occupies is part of the "software." Since any new files you put in to be loaded by the game would now be occupying the memory space, you have just altered the software.
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Actually, IANAL (though even if I were a lawyer, how could I pass up the chance to type ANAL in all caps like that? ), but what makes the maps derivative works is not that they are meant to be used with the game, but that they're based on game content.Thus, they're every bit as much derivative works as CoH fan art or fan fiction. Spend a few moments on Google to look up a copyright faq and check it out.
Note that, by the letter of the agreement, fan art and fanfic should technically be verboten (as the 5th Column would say) as well. For that matter, so should screen captures for anything but personal, private use.
But again, IANAL. (Well, maybe a rules lawyer. )
I can understand using the word unsupported but I think it is ridiculous to make it a violation. Maybe it is a violation on these boards and I can use IGN's VNBoards to find much needed mods.
So, if I edit a file in the client, am I going to be banned? If so, it might be like a drug habit. So many people doing it, knowing the risk but enjoying the relief.
Its not that they are going to hunt you down, it sounds like they are just going to stop discussion of that on these boards.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Let me try this in simple terms, for those who still don't get it.
Adding files that you created, in a folder you created, does not modify the client. You have not touched Cryptic's software.
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Let me try it in simple terms because you obviously don't get it.
[color= orange]They said reverse engineering the client is against the TOS. How did you know to put the files there? You had to reverse engineer (or someone did) the client to find that out and post it. They stomped on it. Case closed.[/color]
Now, if you ask me personally, banning reverse engineering of things is [censored]. In fact it /used/ to be specifically protected by law in the US. Note I said used to be. Gotta love things like the DMCA, patent abuse, and the like.
In a more serious note, I'd be willing to give 2:1 odds that Cuppa isn't listing all the reasons. I have a suspicion they're worried about someone figuring out how to actually replace animations in the client. Why? Becase the client probably controlls animation time (tho maybe not, since we have parry working how it does; animate then pause time where you can move but not act), and the servers probably don't check it. Imagine if you could spam off attacks with 0 anim time. Yeah.
All of Asheron's Call PK skills were knowing exactly how to break the client's animation loop. They'd be wise to be scared.
It would be very very hard to exploit the animations, animations are not code and cryptic did not store and exploitable code, at least exploitable to a large degree like somethat such as you say on the client. I've swapped animation files I'll admit, and while I type ;raisehand and see the hover animation, when I ask someone else what they see, they say I'm raising me hand. IMO cuppa has listed the reasons.
ya gotta be kidding me! I must be missing something. The only mods I am aware of are the map patch and the looping sounds. These are fixes to major issues that could have been addressed by the creators of the game. The customers fixed it at not cost to the creators and now want to ban us from using them? crazy. At a minimum we are owed a logical explanation.
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ya gotta be kidding me! I must be missing something. The only mods I am aware of are the map patch and the looping sounds. These are fixes to major issues that could have been addressed by the creators of the game. The customers fixed it at not cost to the creators and now want to ban us from using them? crazy. At a minimum we are owed a logical explanation.
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The logical explanation's been given already: the patches have been causing a lot of headaches for NCSoft's support division, as people install them, mess up their clients, and then come crying to support about it.
And the ban isn't from using them (yet), it's just from talking about them on these boards. There are other, non-official places where they can be discussed now.
Feel free to use the "Mod" section on my boards... you are able to Upload and Download files (Up to 4MB a piece)... there is already some great info and some files there from Rile.
ParagonCity.net
I've seen refineries. But your right, NO GAS STATIONS. Must be Hydrogen. Pour in a gallon of water and drive for days.
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Client modifications are against the Coh Terms of Service agreement found here.
I will be removing all posts/threads about client modification as a result.
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Not that anyone has actually read or agreed to that - you should know that its common knowledge 
This is just a side note about people ranting about how Cryptic/NCSoft are saying things are to be happening "soon", and this is CLEARLY not "soon" enough! Let me tell ya, folks...go play SWG, and let me know what kind of response you get from Those On High. There are bugs in that game that have been there since launch...and are still resting comfortably right where they are. Professions that are flat BROKEN, and everyone KNOWS they're broken...but they're in no rush to get them fixed. (Smuggler, anyone? Squad Leader?) Cryptic/NCSoft is taking their sweet time in releasing updates & patches, and by god, LET THEM!!! I played SWG for a year before throwing in the lightsaber, and during my tenure, "patch" became synonymous with "new & inspiring manner in which our software will crash your computer". CoH is (in my admittedly little experience) 110% more stable in comparison, and if all their releases continue in this vein, then I shall forever remain a willing and cheerful slave to Statesman's "soon".
Now, as far as mods go, I admit I don't know jack about 'em and will shut up and move on.