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If you make a map, or texture, or sound or anything else of the like to be used with the game, it is a derivative.
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No, not if its just a map, there has to be more factors.
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Additionally, once the game is loaded into memory, the memory space which the game occupies is part of the "software." Since any new files you put in to be loaded by the game would now be occupying the memory space, you have just altered the software.
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No, this is utter nonsense and would be laughed out of court.
I really dont see the point of banning that i do enjoy the modding aspect it ammuses me i have changed the newspaper textures in [said magazine associated with a hugh heffner] i also turned all the water into lava which is very funny to i have made a little changes but i dont see why that would do anyharm sure if i hacked into ur servers (like i would know the first thing about that) and changed ur files then i could understand but if u want to prevent it go ahead it will just make you look bad. now if someone found a way to get into the files and exploit or cheat i could understand it a little bit better but it is your fault for making that available....so all in all ill stop but it is very very dumb 
from what i can tell... all the textures, sounds, etc for the game are contained in .pigg files in the coh directory. If you open the coh directory, you see your executable, a couple of .dll's, and the updater executable. All the rest of the client is loaded up from those .pigg files. Now, as anyone who's used a mod knows (and again, the only mod's i know of are maps and sounds, so maybe i'm missin something), these mods are implemented NOT by altering or overwriting any actual files in the COH directory, but by creating new folder structures that the game client uses INSTEAD of the ones in the .piggs..... which tells me right there, that the code in the executable is actually WRITTEN to allow users to put new files (sounds, maps, texures?) into the directory so that the game client loads them up. Maybe I'm wrong, and it's just some code left in there from development, for troubleshooting or something, but if it is... it needs to be taken out. These new, user-created files and folders wouldn't BE part of the loaded client, if the game executable weren't specifically written that way. I really think this has been done by the developers on purpose, of course with the understanding that any additional files created by the user are NOT supported in any way, and if you have problems with the game, the FIRST thing to do would be to remove these.
If the moderator your post stand without challenge.I would bet you are right.
the file setup is the way it is so they can add patches easliy, simply over write the old with the new and the game loads it with ease. Diablo 2 is the same way but it uses large MPQ files instead of .pigg. The loading structure is meant to aid developement.
as a aisde note only people with the same "modded" files can see what you see with them, and thusly meaning the whole modding setup is cosmetic. If they are trying to shut down mods then it is possible that if you alter the client in some way it could become exploitable.
this seems to make sense if enemy statistics are held somewhere on our computers , we could make the game harder or easier ourselves. this is doubtful but a possible reason why they would try and stop mods from happening.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
no things such as enemy stats, spawn rates, influence, etc are all server sided and not client sided. It seems as though the only client side data are graphics and the executable.
Honestly though this is lame. The best MMORPG ive ever played, Asheron's Call, fully supported client modifcations. AC had a ton of UI skins and a bunch of program add-ons called Decals. Little menus or in-game windows can be brought up to have several functions. For example one had a spell component organizer for mixing spells. Also crafting, programs allowing you to list an amount of items you needed for a certain item, such as bow components, how much of each item you needed, and how many batches you can make out of your current inventory. The possibilities were endless. If you ask me, client modifications allow for quality of life within the game.
To ban them completly is wrong. If you give the players a litte bit of elbow room here you wont have to worry about cheats. I've played a few games that activly ban any outside modification of the game completly. And its funny, they seem to be the most cheat rampant games I've ever played.
I remember on an Asheron's Call mod thread someone mentioned they were working on a mod that could have been considered a cheat. I guess he was working on a way to permantly cap your run speed. This wasn't under the terms that AC allowed us to mod and the user was immediatly flamed for disrespecting Turbine (AC's Developer) and turns out some of the forum posters knew this guy in game and reported him. This kind of respectful community between the players and the devs is what makes a healthy game. Will you ever see anything between devs and players in EverQuest? No. It is probably the most strict game around. But its up to you devs.
Of course, Client mods aren't the only thing that a dev-player relationship can be defined with, but it certainly can give players a good idea of how you treat your player community.
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Agreed.
There are two major quality of game modifications that a lot of people use. One is the map hack which makes it really easy to find stores and navigate PP. If the ingame map system wasn't so primitive, this wouldn't be necessary. The second is the insanely annoying sound loops that we have no control over other than to modify them directly. Again, there needs to be ingame controls on the noise level of loops.
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I use the map, find it quite useful. I'm suprised the Dev's didn't snatch this up right away. The ingame music as you go from zone to zone is pretty nice. Some of it I wish would play through the entire zone! My humble opinion. Which if you were me you 'd agree with.
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umm...you guys realize that they are adding controls for loops/particle effect..as well as stores on maps in patches soon right?
..or am I stil lthe only one who listens to what the devs say 
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Everything is coming 'soon' for CoH. There is a mountain of goodies coming 'soon'. That is just how it is with Cryptic. Nothing has been delivered yet, but just pay that next months subscription because it will all be here 'soon'.
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You mean like the "Fixes" To issue #2 ?
A whole lotta pages that seem to go....dowhere
As far as my interpretation of the Cyrptic "Directive", they are protecting themselves against supporting the worlds software and trying to stem the existing calls and emails at the same time.
One of the things that kept me at EQ for 4+ years were the creative peoples mods that are so popular. Everything from BEAUTIFUL custom interfaces ((EQINTERFACES))...to the text to voice software that is amazing.EQ Interfaces.
I suspect it's all a tempest in a teapot. Also, there appears to be some confusion on what "server" and "client" side modifications are in some of the posts.
VIVA LE MAP PATCH!
Duiss
Excuse me while I speculate on this issue.
There could be one of two things going on here.
1. Durring test they found that useing overrides there was a way to exploit some features in the game to essentially "cheat".
or
2. They did not want to take the support calls stemmed from people modding their client.
I would hope that the first senerio is not true and the second one is. I would assume that the first senerio is not true due to the fact that even after issue #2 the ability to use overrides is still there.
As a CYA measure they decided not to condone discussions regarding client modifications on their offical forums. Which is understandable due to the fact that people that are not as technically inclined would try these modifications and in some way mess their client up and call support to have them help them fix it. In this case I would assume that a. their support staff are not trained to deal with such issues and b. they did not budget for such support senerios. All of which is very understandable. This is all based on speculation mind you and I could be way off base but thoes are my assumptions.
My recommendataion would be that if you would like to play around with clinet modifications, and talk about client modifications dont do it on the CoH public forums and dont ask for support. It might be a good idea to do your client mods on the test server as well. That way if there is some sort of client exploit that is found you can report it to the test department and hopefully get it patched in the next release.
There is my .02 cents and I hope this post does not get nuked!
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As a CYA measure they decided not to condone discussions regarding client modifications on their offical forums.
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{(((Bump)))}
This is a stickied thread... Why the need to bump?
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This is a stickied thread... Why the need to bump?
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I think that was a bump_postcount_self() post
I don't think people should modify files. It's like altering a piece of art without the consent of the artist. It's just WRONG.
Don't blame Cryptic or CuppaJo. The problem is not them. The problem is the user base.
Before you jump on me, hear me out.
This is an "official" forum supported and moderated by the game developers. They cannot allow discussions to go on that concern the modification of the game client, the folder it is installed to, or additional files used to enhance your experience that are not specifically provided by Cryptic or NCSoft. Why do you ask? Because.... If they do, they are then opening themselves up to supporting these modifications. You see.. In the strictest of senses..If they allow such discussions to take place on their forums, it could be implied that they support and condone the activity.
Does that mean that they don't like the ideas that the community has provided? No. Do is mean that they may not be implementing some of the ideas themselves in the future? No. Does it mean you can't discuss such things on a forum not owned and controlled by the game developer? No. They are just doing what they must do to protect themselves from supporting users that have modified their clients (perhaps incorrectly) and then submit support tickets for problems that the user may have caused themselves.
It's a shame they have to do such things, but the reason can most likely be attributed to the letigious nature of society. People are very quick to blame others for their own problems. Not to ruffle feathers here, but there have been numerous threads involving people that have said "the problem is not on my end", but a Hijack This log proves that their system is the reason they are having issues.
Ultimately..it's a shame they have to do this, but it is the nature of the beast. The thing to do would be to find a third party site to discuss the modifications that players have come up with and discuss them there. The "official" forums are for discussions that the game developers are willing to "support". Anything else will be officially taboo.
As an aside... Modifying the client does not mean changing the specific client files. Adding files or folders to any folder that is part of the City of Heroes installation, Inserting any files on your system that affects the behavior of the client, or even modifying a shortcut created by the client could be considered modifying the client. ANY change, deletion, or addition to the files provided by the developer falls under this category. The TOS may be ambiguous, but it must be. Cryptic cannot allow themselves to be in a position to "support" anything beyond what they provide as a whole. A TOS with the desired specifics would be impossible to write since it would have to address each and every possibility that could occur.
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umm...you guys realize that they are adding controls for loops/particle effect..as well as stores on maps in patches soon right?
..or am I stil lthe only one who listens to what the devs say
[/ QUOTE ] Well, these options STILL aren't in, so....why listen to them unless they have ETAs?
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LOVEITORLEAVEIT:
I don't think people should modify files. It's like altering a piece of art without the consent of the artist. It's just WRONG.
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I don't think this is the issue. We actually paid for the original software, and are paying for any and all subsequent updates. Imagine getting an apartment and finding out that you can't move around the existing tables or chairs, simply because the landlord said that "it's prettier that way." Or imagine buying a car and being told that you can't attach new rims, for example, because the original designer(s) of that specific model thought that they looked good enough as they are. If you paid for the original "Mona Lisa", you can hang it on your wall, burn it, paint over it, or tear it, as you please.
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Death_Row_Marv:
1. Durring test they found that useing overrides there was a way to exploit some features in the game to essentially "cheat".
or
2. They did not want to take the support calls stemmed from people modding their client.
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I am much more inclined to believe that either or both of these reasons are the cause. Also, it is possible to make mods in order to:
a) make a profit by selling the mods
b) defame Cryptic/NCSoft by blaming them for things they didn't do/make
c) further reverse engineer their product, violate intellectual property rights and make a profit, and be all but undetectable about it
d) other things that Cryptic/NCSoft have probably considered.
I guess it's the lesser of two evils, seeing as how there are many out there who fail to discipline their own abilities.
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umm...you guys realize that they are adding controls for loops/particle effect..as well as stores on maps in patches soon right?
..or am I stil lthe only one who listens to what the devs say
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Cryopulse:
Well, these options STILL aren't in, so....why listen to them unless they have ETAs?
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No kidding, right?! I just thought the ETA comment was a good one... otherwise I have no idea what the previously quoted comment was about.
VIRTUE
Mister Marbles - Ice/Rad Controller
Glass Titan - Elec/En Blapper
Miss Marbles - Inv/Fire Tanker
Chef Jinglemerry - Spines/DA Scrapper
Blood Envy - WP/DB Tanker
Velvette - WS
My Custom Demos
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umm...you guys realize that they are adding controls for loops/particle effect..as well as stores on maps in patches soon right?
..or am I stil lthe only one who listens to what the devs say
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Cryopulse:
Well, these options STILL aren't in, so....why listen to them unless they have ETAs?
[/ QUOTE ]
No kidding, right?! I just thought the ETA comment was a good one... otherwise I have no idea what the previously quoted comment was about.
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Since some of the more popular mods are to remove looping sounds and show stores on maps, the most commonly used mods will become obsolete when these features become inherent in the official version of the game, so why all the griping about the no-mod-discussion? At least, that's what I think was his point, not absolutely sure. Still, the no ETA thing is a big one. For that matter, the fact that these features will be in, even if we had an ironclad release date, would still not do a single thing to make my current play experience less annoying when I'm going nuts due to superspeed's thrumming or targeting drone's humming or the difficulty of finding unmarked stores.
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
They may show stores, but will they show the maze that is Perez Park woods?
MA Arc:
Overload (Arc ID #405822) | Status: Final | Last Edited: 5th Nov 2010 for text fixes.
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Well, in my honest opinion, these client mods in no way affects other customers nor does it put any burden on the devs. It actually "enhances" interest in the game. When a moderator like CuppaJo steps in and can delete these threads on his own whim without first discussing it is in my opinion very hurtful to customer trust. In other words, it seems to me that CuppaJo does not have an open mind and anything that even remotely "resembles" breaking the rules is hereby forbidden. Even if it was all completely innocent... and it IS completely innocent. Open your mind, it does wonders.
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Off the cuff I see one way it could hurt other players. CoV. How much of an advantage would you have going into a hostile zone and knowing where all of the other sides gathering points/stores/etc are at?
And, as an earlier reply stated, it is quite like that CuppaJo is just the messenger. And, frankly, cancelling your game account because of message board rule enforcement strikes me as childish.
Modificaitons such as data mods, or modifications such as pigg files and the like? (turn spine scrappers into metal spike scrappers, improve stone armor's ****ty graphics. turn the world of COH more "comic booky", etc..)
if the client side graphic modding is being banned/blocked, that's lame to the Nth power times 10. It's not like anyone else can see the changes, or causes anyone any problems.
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Thank you so much for the clarification, CuppaJo.
With that out of the way ... I personally don't have a problem with them banning discussion of the mods in an official capacity, so long as the functionality to do them remains in place, allowing those of us who know what we are doing to continue to have fun tweaking our characters.
Time for modding discussions to go elsewhere.
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Look guys, here's a translation from someone who speaks bussiness for those of you who don't.
"Do whatever you want, just don't talk about it here, and don't ask for help from us if you F something up."
Legal reasons aside, this is a good policy. He all but said, we're not inforcing this (unless it's a problem with an exploit or something), but we're not going to talk about it either. Find somewhere else to post about this stuff. There's some neat stuff out there, but after 3 min of looking, I found a Spawn model for your character (you're the only one that see's it, but it's a CLEAR violation of the ToS).
Don't shoot Cuppa for this, he's just letting you know that they don't want any extra crap from Marvel than they're getting now (I hear they're gonna sue the makers of #2 pencils next, cause you can draw a copywritted character with one) and they don't intend to open themselves up to further attacks due to sanctioned mod discussions.
Modding CoH client=not a big deal, just keep it to yourself on this board.
Don't ask, Don't tell.
Pollution
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Client modifications are against the Coh Terms of Service agreement found here.
I will be removing all posts/threads about client modification as a result.
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Even though this has been pointed out repeatedly, I'll do it again. She is just saying to take your words elsewhere. It's amazing how quickly some people jump to a conclusion just to whine and cry like a baby "ohh wah I have to actually think my way through PP with no map, I quit, take my discs back!" Go explore, it's good for you. Oh, and stop calling Cuppa a man, because you're a liar, and bad at it.
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Or maybe if you dont like a part of the game, simply petition for a change. I would think that if enough people want better maps, cryptic will put them in eventually. In the mean time simply learn your zones. it isnt that hard.
Modifying the client should be against the TOS, and should be wiped here on these boards.
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Um...if Cryptic doesn't want things like map patches in the game, why does the game FACILITATE for its use? The game KNOWS to look in certain directories for player-moded content. Why put in that functionality if you didn't want it to happen?
And as someone else pointed out, if the current game maps weren't so lackluster, map patches wouldn't be necessary.
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Also, it leaves the door open for viruses to be spread. I used to play Jumpgate and there was a problem where a player had created something "for the community" to use to help with the game, and it turned out to be a virus that he was spreading because he was about to get banned or was sick of the game or something like that.
...
Let's say someone created a mapping program that worked great, but behind the scenes was stealing your keystrokes to get your user name and password to the game. Things like that would and may possibly happen if Cryptic allows mods
here.
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No things like that happen people some people are idiots (the ones getting the virus)