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LOVEITORLEAVEIT:
I don't think people should modify files. It's like altering a piece of art without the consent of the artist. It's just WRONG.
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I don't think this is the issue. We actually paid for the original software, and are paying for any and all subsequent updates. Imagine getting an apartment and finding out that you can't move around the existing tables or chairs, simply because the landlord said that "it's prettier that way." Or imagine buying a car and being told that you can't attach new rims, for example, because the original designer(s) of that specific model thought that they looked good enough as they are. If you paid for the original "Mona Lisa", you can hang it on your wall, burn it, paint over it, or tear it, as you please.
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Unfortunately your entire argument is built upon a very common misconception. You did not pay for the original software. What you bought was a license to use the software, on one machine at one time.
To put it in your analogy, it is more like you rented a car from Hertz, but are now suprised to find that they don't allow you to attach those shiny new rims, because at the end of the day, the car is still theirs, not yours.
Kal
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Exactly. I have been watching this post since it started, and I have to say.....there are a bunch of you out there that do nothing but WHINE.....BTW Would you like some CHEESE with that??.....
I mean come on. Lets be serious. So you dont like some ingame sounds. Turn them OFF. Or better yet, listen to music. Do you really need the sounds to play the game?? No.
Secondly, Cuppajo is only doing the job which he/she has been hired to do. Moderate these forums. She answered your questions, the mods aren't allowed to be discussed here. Simple and to the point. I have never in my life heard more whining and griping from a community as large as this one. You all that did so, just make me sick about being a gamer. Good thing though....there are more of us out there who actually enjoy this game and others like it, to where we cant be included in the vast minority of whining gamers. Get a life. Leave the moderators to do their job. Enjoy the game. Done. 
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Exactly. I have been watching this post since it started, and I have to say.....there are a bunch of you out there that do nothing but WHINE.....BTW Would you like some CHEESE with that??.....
I mean come on. Lets be serious. So you dont like some ingame sounds. Turn them OFF. Or better yet, listen to music. Do you really need the sounds to play the game?? No.
Secondly, Cuppajo is only doing the job which he/she has been hired to do. Moderate these forums. She answered your questions, the mods aren't allowed to be discussed here. Simple and to the point. I have never in my life heard more whining and griping from a community as large as this one. You all that did so, just make me sick about being a gamer. Good thing though....there are more of us out there who actually enjoy this game and others like it, to where we cant be included in the vast minority of whining gamers. Get a life. Leave the moderators to do their job. Enjoy the game. Done.
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Exactly. I have been watching these posts since they started, and I have to say.....there are a bunch of you out there that do nothing but WHINE about WHINERS.....BTW Would you like some CHEESE with that??.....
I mean come on. Lets be serious. So you dont like some message board posts. Don't read them. Or better yet, put the posters on ignore. Do you really need to read every thread to play the game?? No.
Simple and to the point. I have never in my life heard more whining and griping from a community as large as this one. You all that did so, just make me sick about being a gamer. Good thing though....there are more of us out there who actually enjoy this game and others like it, to where we cant be included in the vast minority of whining gamers. Get a life. Enjoy the game. Done.
/me 3rd party modded your post!!! oh nos! SKYFALLING! GLAVIN!
while the sound issue drives me nuts, I personally like that stores aren't on the map, and that PP is so confusing to navigate. While it can be frustrating to get stuck in the middle of PP (especially at lower levels) I think it adds excitement of the game to not know where you are exactly. And it's a bit of a treat to discover where the stores are, and to memorize the geography of the city.
but that's just me.
Whats a mod?????????????
Cuppajoe... lock the thread already.
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Too bad. A lot of creative and well-done work swept away with but a brush of the mighty hand of Mod.
I hope at the very least you guys make a note of some of the better work and try to purchase rights to use it. There's some fantastic stuff out there that Cryptic would be silly to ignore.
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yep.
what about selling the map in pieces. when you go to Atlas, there's someone to sell you the Atlas map...
costume/weapons mods maybe sold in stores. a weapons shop sure would be groovy 
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sigh, it'd sure be cool to make a game ^^
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once you stop trying to please the unplease-able, you stop "working".
Never used the 'map'...*eye's shift side to side*...
Ok, I just started a tanker and this Unyielding is just killing me. I have to put up with this dull throbbing hum and blasts of sandpaper being rubbed. If anyone could point me to a third party site that has a fix for this, I'd greatly appreciate it.
I agree that the Perez Park maze is better left unknown, however, its silly not to know where the shops are. This is a city, not some unexplored dungeon. Cities have streets, addresses, and phone books that most shops make sure their addresses are in. It takes away from the idea that this is a city to have to wander through all of Steel Canyon, for instance, to find Cooke's Electronics.
As to the noises, well, until I discovered a mod for it, I stopped playing my dark/dark scrapper at all because the constant, unending Dark Miasma sound effect (even though I turned the thing off whenever I was not using it) literally gave me a headache. As to the suggestion of "well, just turn the sound off then".......right.......I want to play a silent game. Do you think that, if people do not want sound as part of the game environment, that software producers would bother putting sound in with the game? Sounds are helpful in many situations, finding glowies being the most obvious.
My problem is, virtually every game I've played that has forums sponsered by the manufacturer has a modding section. I find it rather ludicrous and arrogant that this game has closed its doors to the modding community. People have different tastes, and no product is going to appeal to all, that's where modding comes into play. Yes, NCSoft has the right to ban their discussion, but, they'ree spitting on their paying customers by doing so.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
Yeah -- pretty much *every* game in this cyber cafe can be legally modified -- your own skins, weapons, etc. Only City of Heroes, Anarchy Online and Final Fantasy XI, as far as I can tell, are anal about mods. Anyway, I like playing the tanker, but I'm pretty much done with that character until I can find a fix for the sounds.
nothing is worse than the nerve wracking drone of Superspeed or the grinding howl of target drone.
.:Brmstone's BLOG:.
You must not have ever sent a petition with a suggestion, because they send you a nice form letter saying they dont have time to read petitions like that and to post them in the forum where other players can comment on them and the staff can read them when and if they want. So, I guess the ideas here are not the kind they want to hear, then again I find they dont like to hear suggestions in general, so either you pay and play their game or you dont.
Everyone is under the assumption that they "own" the software that is installed on thier computer. In standard EULA agreements, you are purchasing a License to use the software on your computer. You do not "own" it per se, just are renting it for personal use. Kind of like leasing a car.
However, your montly payment gets you additional services each month
- Comic Book
- Unlimited Gameplay
- Technical Support
- The ability to post on the boards and everything else associated with the website.
- Monthly Updates
- ETC. . .
So, in reality, Cryptic/NC or whoever is involved with all of this still owns the software on your PC's. You pay them montly to keep enjoying the benefits of playing the game. If you want to compare, read Microsoft's EULA, or for that matter anyone elses. You will see that support is offered for origional, un-altered versions of these and all programs. Until they become obsolete from technology advancements.
They can do whatever they want to these posts (oddly enough, they have the right seeing as the OWN the website), they can do whatever they want with the program (up to and not limited to...altering gameplay, cancelling accounts, changing character names <had this happen to me personally - didn't even know I infringed on a copyright...>, deleting unwanted posts, etc...)
To repeat what many have said about all the mod whining... Let it drop and just enjoy the game, IF you have these mods that make life easier...then continue to use them. If they stop after an update, guess what. You have no legal grounds to complain, sue, or harrass the Devs. They are paid to ensure that the game continues to run and generate income for a large company. If they think that mods are a danger to the game, then they have the right, and obligation to those of us that do not use them, to continue to provide us with a stable gaming environment to escape the reality that we are bogged down in...
Have a nice day, and remember...you computer loves you because you fiddle with it's keys...
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nothing is worse than the nerve wracking drone of Superspeed or the grinding howl of target drone.
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Ooooooooh yes there is. It's called the eardrum-splitting squeel of Force Fields. Mother of G, if they could just turn that into a nice smash of several pillows colliding in midair I would consider myself blessed.
signed: Lady Seizure... Ill/FF Controller
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Hmm not happy about this.. but here's what I'm thinking...
I'm thinking this might be Cryptic's way of saying. "We don't support/condone mods and as such we delete all threads about this, but we're not disabling the override feature." Limiting liability. If it's seen here it could be considered "official" and cause problems. By deleting the threads and not disabling the ability to use mods they could still leave it in that "gray area." I only guesstimate that because of the way CuppaJo is only talking about deleting threads.
I'd think if Cryptic was taking a hard line on this, they'd blatantly says stop, and we'd see a patch very quickly to disable the override. I can't see as to why they wouldn't anounce it, if people are going to quit over this, they'll do it when it's anounced or when it's "fixed." They're still going to lose customers over this.
I will not be happy, however, if they disable the override without updating the in game maps with store locations and at the very least cutting the volume of looping sounds in half. (disable would be nice too)
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Here's the problem. They don't like modding, heck I wouldn't if I was working my butt off on a good game. There's certain ways to control modding. Since the modded files are named the same as the original, it would be harder or unpleasant to inforce.
There would have to be some way to check to see if any files are changed. One way of doing this is to incorporate a while loading file scan, which would take way long on one gig of data.
Another way would be to actually download and replace all files when loading, a very long process.
So really any method of taking mods out, would be very annoying to customers, and why should they suffer over very trivial client changes that don't affect the global gameplay.
So, No, they don't like them, but there's no real way to control them.
And anyway, continual modding leads to some really interesting results. Incorporation is what I'm thinking of. For example, CS started as just a mod to halflife (if I'm remembering correctly, it's been ages) And then valve basically took the idea, since it was not protected and it was partly theirs to begin with.
Also, the way a lot of game incorporate Gui mods into ingame Gui customizing. (which I would like to see)
Kinda tired of the old Gui, it needs some tuning circles and squares get old after a while.
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aAnd anyway, continual modding leads to some really interesting results. Incorporation is what I'm thinking of. For example, CS started as just a mod to halflife (if I'm remembering correctly, it's been ages) And then valve basically took the idea, since it was not protected and it was partly theirs to begin with.
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Just a side note...Valve actually hired the guys who made CS and now they're still making the mod...they're just doing it in house and getting paid for it.
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Just as an FYI Cuppa Jo, people are generally adding NEW files in a separate folder
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modify, adapt, reverse engineer or decompile the Software, or otherwise attempt to derive source code from the Software;
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In the process of modding you DO open up and extract textures
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Just in case he didn't clarify this.
Extracting textures is reverse engineering.
I personally don't agree with some of what is being said here. I understand where the devs are coming from, they have ceated a game that is fair to everyone, and is stable, by others introducing code into the game ever as small as a spot as client side, you are modifying their creation. Now I don't agree with it completely... I belong to a group of players that all we do is mod a game, we tear apart the costumes, we tear apart maps, we locate missing content and reintroduce it, and believe me, the people that come to our websites to get it love it, they go nuts when they see the new stuff, they like the fact that the game can grow. Now the devs here are doing just that with there issues 1-5 updates. it's just that it takes so long, and customers are impatient. perhaps if the devs would allow the m,odding communities to create mods, costumes, etc... then submit them for security and stability reasons, then impliment them, perhaps that would be the happy medium for us all.
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The client is the program, and associated files, created by the installer. The folder is little more than a designation as to where to find it. You seem to be implying that if I rename "C:\City Of Heroes" to "C:\Cryptic Nerfed Me", then I have modified the client.
Besides, the map patches, texture mods, sound mods, and such did not modify a single one of these files. They were added. External. The client *chose* to load these over the compressed data. We were using a built-in capability of the client. Now, if we were to unpack the .piggs, change the data, and recompress them, then yes, we would be modifying the game files. Nobody has argued that.
Let me try this in simple terms, for those who still don't get it.
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I'm sorry, did you have a real point there? Now then how about I give my $0.02 worth. They are called mods for a reason right? They MODIFY the game in some way. It doesn't matter if your changing the files, or adding new ones, you just altered the game. THAT is something against the TOS that everyone read and agreed to. At least they should have read it.
So, you claim that the CoH folder isn't the product that the TOS covers, but just the core program files? Um, didn't the game create said folder to hold the entire product? So if you add a new sound file or texture file, didn't you just add to the product your not sopose to mess with? And the infamous map hack? I met someone who used it, and he described exactly what it did to me. He was trying to convince me it's needed to play the game.
Map hack features he mentioned? The location of every store in every zone (added to the game now btw, just have to find them first), standard spawning locations of enemies and what level they will be, event/monster spawn locations... Sounds alot like a major cheet. And just how usefull was this map hack? From how many times he tried entering the same building looking for the magic/mutation shop in Steel, when it was three buildings down the street with a sign. not very helpfull other then a cheet to aviod fighting. I can avoid a fight if I want to by just keeping my eyes pealed.
You have a problem with a looping sound such as targeting drone? Um, why are you running that power when it's not needed anyway? So your playing dark armor and don't like your mez shield's FX? Guess what, it's not always needed anyway so can be turned off when not required. Gee, that's two of the mods everyone is saying are requred I just demonstrated are not really needed. How about custom weapon images? Wow, violating the TOS never felt so lame. The costume creation is already deep, and getting even larger all the time. Do we really need customized weapons before the devs figure out a way to impliment it? And they are working on that remember.
In short, I fail to see why everyone is so upset over having threads about mods removed when the mods are eather blatent cheets or aren't needed anyway, and against the TOS to boot.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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In short, I fail to see why everyone is so upset over having threads about mods removed when the mods are eather blatent cheets or aren't needed anyway, and against the TOS to boot.
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I won't quote all of that, just because it makes what I'm posting harder to read. I just have one question- I want an in game clock that doesn't require a command or hunting down the right npc. <--That's what I got told when I suggested it through the correct channels, or "go buy a clock."
I want to be able to glance up and see the correct, real world time. It's simple, and quite possibly moddable, and affects no one's game play. I don't even want to put this on everyone's UI, I just want it as an option. Please explain to me how "I don't need this." Who are you to judge what I might find necessary or not? Sure, you've got an opinion, but that doesn't make you right.
I had always thought that it was pretty rude to tell other people what they should and should not be doing with their characters. Turns out I was right.
Really, they either need to do something about the looping sounds or let the players take care of it themselves. I was trying to play a dark armor brute today and Dark Embrace is driving me crazy, not to mention giving me a headache.
But I suppose someone will just say I don't really need smashing/lethal damage resistance so I should just leave the power off.
"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." -- Dinobot
You don't need your speakers, or your monitor, so turn them off. *rolleyes*
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In short, I fail to see why everyone is so upset over having threads about mods removed when the mods are eather blatent cheets or aren't needed anyway, and against the TOS to boot.
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I won't quote all of that, just because it makes what I'm posting harder to read. I just have one question- I want an in game clock that doesn't require a command or hunting down the right npc. <--That's what I got told when I suggested it through the correct channels, or "go buy a clock."
I want to be able to glance up and see the correct, real world time. It's simple, and quite possibly moddable, and affects no one's game play. I don't even want to put this on everyone's UI, I just want it as an option. Please explain to me how "I don't need this." Who are you to judge what I might find necessary or not? Sure, you've got an opinion, but that doesn't make you right.
I had always thought that it was pretty rude to tell other people what they should and should not be doing with their characters. Turns out I was right.
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You're getting all worked up because they wont let you have a MOD that shows the real world time in game.......
Unbelievable... 
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Really, they either need to do something about the looping sounds or let the players take care of it themselves. I was trying to play a dark armor brute today and Dark Embrace is driving me crazy, not to mention giving me a headache.
But I suppose someone will just say I don't really need smashing/lethal damage resistance so I should just leave the power off.
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One of the reps thought it was going to go live with the mudpots sound patch, but it didn't.
He is looking into all of the Dark armor / WS powers with loop sounds.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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aAnd anyway, continual modding leads to some really interesting results. Incorporation is what I'm thinking of. For example, CS started as just a mod to halflife (if I'm remembering correctly, it's been ages) And then valve basically took the idea, since it was not protected and it was partly theirs to begin with.
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Just a side note...Valve actually hired the guys who made CS and now they're still making the mod...they're just doing it in house and getting paid for it.
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On top of that, they gave out a mod kit... Cryptic hasn't.
On the flip side, halflife doesn't require a monthlyfee or certain servers.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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LOVEITORLEAVEIT:
I don't think people should modify files. It's like altering a piece of art without the consent of the artist. It's just WRONG.
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I don't think this is the issue. We actually paid for the original software, and are paying for any and all subsequent updates. Imagine getting an apartment and finding out that you can't move around the existing tables or chairs, simply because the landlord said that "it's prettier that way." Or imagine buying a car and being told that you can't attach new rims, for example, because the original designer(s) of that specific model thought that they looked good enough as they are. If you paid for the original "Mona Lisa", you can hang it on your wall, burn it, paint over it, or tear it, as you please.
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Unfortunately your entire argument is built upon a very common misconception. You did not pay for the original software. What you bought was a license to use the software, on one machine at one time.
To put it in your analogy, it is more like you rented a car from Hertz, but are now suprised to find that they don't allow you to attach those shiny new rims, because at the end of the day, the car is still theirs, not yours.
Kal