Shred_Monkey
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Yes... while it's fun to talk about lore and stories and explinations... one must always remember, this is 1st a game... and a comic book storyline 2nd. They do what makes sense for the game, then write a story to try to fit it.Originally Posted by Frost
I think it might be a mistake to base what the incarnate system will be on what the in game incarnates can do. Satatesman and Lord Recluse are just Archvillain (or hero, but...same difference) class constructs with some souped up powers. They have mountains of hit points and gigantic endurance reserves, along with all the damage resistances and status effect protection of other AVs because of game mechanics that make them challenging for players to face.
The player incarnate system is a whole other ball of wax entirely. I expect any intersection with what the in-game versions of States/Recluse can do to be purely coincidental. -
Endgame working as intended.
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If you're specifically asking about purple sets and comparing those to the incarnate abilities.... it depends. Some builds don't benifit a lot specifically from purples. But if you're just using the "purpled" term to mean any toon who heavily invests in set IOs. Then hands down IO sets are better then incarnte abilities. Incarnates only increase 1 primary stat, and possibly 1 other useful stat at a time. IO sets can exceed the value of any incarnate boost and add to many other stats simultaeously.
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Quote:Funny thing... in that thread I agreed with the OP because in that case he was correct (because the exact question you asked was mitigation value vs mitigation value). In this thread the OP poses a "surviability vs survivabilty" hypothesis... and is unfortunately very wrong.Originally Posted by VeryBadDay
It's absolutely your fault!
But that doesn't mean you're wrong :-) -
Quote:I'm not sure yet. But I suspect I'm going to like the Nick.Originally Posted by NICKisdaBeast
OK forum goers! Nick is back for moar answers!
Hurro people of the great FORUM COMMUITY!
I am REALLY aching to roll a Kinetic Melee/Dark Armor Scrappa, however.. Dark Armor... scary. Will this work well? WILL I LIVE! Can I softcap muh defense?! Will I have enough end to NEVER STOP? I sure as heck hope so. Get back to me PLEASE either ingame via tell or email to @Nick is Epik with your opinions. Also if you have a build, post it! It never hurts.
Thanks PPL!
Nick
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Quote:Nice. If that's the case, then you should be using the BF>AS>SS>AS chain already.Originally Posted by mammalian
That my current global recharge bonus -> hasten + quickness + set bonuses, i have only 1 set that doesnt have a recharge bonus associated with it, and i can say he's a monster without the incarnate ability
And go for the damage incarnate ability. It'll add more DPS then you'll get adding recharge. You've already got enough recharge as it is.
I think this is the first time I've run into a DB toon who builds with the same goals as me. Most people I see settle for BF/Vitals or something even weaker. -
Quote:There's some rule about not being able to start a combo until 5 seconds after the last combo was started... this chain takes over 5 seconds. I use it when exemplared below hasten, which I haven't done in a while, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't run into this problem... I'll have to check in game again before I swear to it though.Originally Posted by Nihilii
/2. Unless it's been fixed and I missed it, there's a bug with combos, if you chain them in... whatever time it takes to do Empower+SS, the second combo doesn't start. So you only get the Empower buff half as much as you should be.
I do know you run into this issue with the empower>weaken repeat chain I use below level 21. -
Hold on... i've done this calculation... let me get my spreadsheet out...
The quick answer... run without gaps, the BF>AS>SS>AS chain gives more DPS then the Empower>SS chain boosted by 11% from the alpha slot (1/3 of 33%).
My DB spreadsheet is a monster, so i'm not going to do all the math here... But I'll give you my base assumptions.
-BF hits 95% of the time so you only get it's boost 95% of the time
-Empower needs each attack to hit, so it's 10% bonus is given 95%^3 of the time
-Abaiting strike has a purple proc and a achillies heal proc for both chains
-Sweeping Strike has a purple proc for both chains
For this calculation I set the global damage bonus outside of that generated by the chain itself to 0. This helps the lesser chain as it has more other bonus. So as you increase the global damage, the 2 chains will actually get further apart in DPS.
This is a fairly meaningless number since people calculate DPS in a lot of different ways, but for what it's worth, I show Empower>SS with musculature alpha slot at 214 DPS and BF>AS>SS>AS at 221 DPS. Not a huge difference, but it's there.
On a side note... 210% global recharge?... is that hasten + quickness + set bonuses? Or are you adding in enhancement recharge also? Cause if that's truely global recharge added on top of enhancement recharge then you should already run the BF>AS>SS>AS chain for higher DPS then the empower>SS chain. In fact you'll get more DPS by adding the musculature slot to the BF>AS>SS>AS and running it with a .132 second gap then you would by adding spiritual slot (this is also based on the above assumptions). -
Quote:Yes if X=Y then Y=X. You're not revealing anything to use we don't understand. We're responding to you saying that "we get that... but we care about relative mitigation, not absolute mitigation." Why don't you understand us? Use your spreadsheet but look at time to defeat instead of damage mitigated.Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
If I can stop you here because this is where you have gone wrong. Your definition of incoming damage has changed.
Incoming damage MUST be determined from the start, else you end up where you are now.
Let's assume the incoming damage is 100.
50 of that is mitigated by an enemies base chance to hit.
With 5% defence, 5 of that is mitigated by defence. That is 5% of 100.
The amount of damage you take is 45. If it mitigated 10%, then you would be taking 40, which clearly isn't so.
Next look at incoming damage of 100.
If 5% defence = 10% mitigation, does 40% defence = 80% mitigation?
No it doesn't. 50 is mitigated simply on the basis that the enemy misses 50% of the time.
40 is mitigated by defence.
That leaves you with 10 damage.
If you go from 40% to 45% defence, you go from 10 to 5 damage. That is 5% of the original attack.
Onto your more key point:
There is one amount of DPS where they intersect. In fact, ALL points intersect, hence why I say they are interchangeable. For a demonstration of that point:
There you go. Both are perfectly interchangeable.
When you are above that DPS, you should always go for Defence. When below, you should always go for Regen.
(I am tempted to stop saying Regen and say "health recovery" so that people can consider self heals as an example, it is causing some side tracking here) -
Quote:Originally Posted by DSorrow
I think the point Bunny is trying to make is this:
Assume we have character A who regens 100hp/sec. Assume he has 40% Defense and 0% Resistance. Assume he has 1000HP. Assume he confronts enemy group B who deals as a collective 101DPS if they hit 10% of the time.
He dies in 1000HP / (101DPS - 100HPS) = 1000 seconds.
In order to double his survivability to 2000 seconds, he needs to add 0.5 HPS of regen, which is not double. Then again, he'd need less than 1% of Defense to get the same effect. Maybe I should try with numbers that aren't as close to each other, but I won't bother.
It's just a shame mitigation isn't this simple. This only works if we know what the DPS of the enemy is going to be when planning a build. That's why the survivability line calculations are practical.
P.S. If I'm totally mistaken in everything I posted in this post, please take into account I've drunk more wine than what is healthy. Thank you.
We may not know what damage is coming in exactly in a build. But we know it's enough that defense wins these discussion every time.
Here's some real numbers (reasonable ingame numbers IMO):
Scenario 1:
400 dps incoming.... 1800 hp...(note base is 50% tohit, so 200 dps actually hits you) 20hp/s regen. You live for 10 seconds.
Add 5% defense to that (you'll go from 50% tohit, to 45% tohit, so 180 dps hits you). 20hp/s regen. You live for 11.25 seconds.
that 5% defense gave you 1.25 seconds of life... or an improvement of 12.5%.
Scenario 2:
400 dps incoming.... 1800 hp...40% defense (note base is 50% tohit -40% defense = 10%, so 40 dps actually hits you) 20hp/s regen. You live for 90 seconds.
Add 5% defense to that (you'll go from 10% tohit, to 5% tohit, so 20 dps hits you). 20hp/s regen. You live forever.
Conclusion:
The difference between 10 and 11.25 is not the same as the difference between 90 and infinity, therefore initial defense values do matter.
Myth is validated.
edited a bunch for formating... and to add this note:
In both scenarios, the 5% defense reduced the incoming damage by 20 DPS. So it did the exact same thing in mitigation, but mitigation is not directly equal to survivabilty. -
Quote:I did this myself about 3-4 years ago. Regen/resistance/defense spreadsheet at different levels. And the quote above perfectly identifies your flaw.Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Here's the problem:
Suppose I present you a choice. You are currently at 0% defence. You can slot IOs in such a fashion that you either get, say, 5% defence, or an amount of regeneration that will make you just as survivable as that 5% defence. It really doesn't matter about the specific quantity of regen that this might be.
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If you make the regen equal to the defense needed to mitigate X, then yes, it's the same. If X=Y, then Y=X. Not a big discovery there.
Thing is... at the incoming damage levels of a level 50 scrapper jumping into a spawn, we're talking about a data point where 3.75% defense may be equal to 2000% regen.
When doing a build, you're faced with choices like do I get 3.75% defense, or 10% regen... easy choice.
But ok...ok... that's not really your point. Your point is you mitigate the same amount of incoming damage with 3.75% defense irreguardless of your initial defense level.
That's true. Absolutely true. This is also true... if you're dieing in 11 seconds vs 10 seconds you won't notice that much. If you're dieing in 5 minutes vs 2.5 minutes... that's big big difference.... both of those times are from adding 5% defense to a build.... one at 0% defense and one at 40% defense. -
I think the OP is asking if you can invite non-50s to team with you during the arc. I don't know the answer to that question.
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I like teaming with people who don't whine. If they stink as a player, I don't really care. If they just wander around with the team healing people who still have their full hp, I honestly would probably never even notice. But if they start talking about how other people stink, or the team stinks... that annoys me.
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Quote:Yes.. nobody is doing 30% more damage then before, or surviving 30% more incoming damage, or finishing missions 30% faster. The relative shifts from a fully decked out build with I19 is more like 1-3% in overall effectivness. There's a reason they have to debuff the non-incarnates for the new TFs. If they didn't people would be able to run them as non-incarnates just as easily as the incarnates do.Originally Posted by Warsuit X-5
It's only 30-50% to something that's not already suffering from ED issues. And only type of enhancement at a time. It will make the people that solo GMs and AVs more powerful, BUT it will make some of the "middle-weight" players with standard IOs, but no sets into "heavy-weights", and make "lightweights" with nothing but SOs into "middle-weights".
OLDER content will get easier, and CURRENT content will be playable with these enhancements (or at least sorta playable).
The OP is absolutely correct that there is danger in giving endgame buffs that are too large. However, I don't see that happening here. I see larger benifits from making fitness inherent then I see from the alpha slot in most cases. -
It's not always easy to get full damage and full recharge outside of the purple set. I'd put that in the attack that needs the most recharge. 5 hectacombs (leave the full damage one off) + a mako's quad gives full recharge with full damage plus the proc. In this case, GFS.
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There are several ways to slot a defense power.
Minimum slotting to get full defense and good regen is 2 slots:
HamiO: Enzyme Exposure x2
Note, this slotting can't be done in a passive as passives can't accept endurance IOs, which is what makes taht HamiO usable in a defense power.
Frequently I also use this 3 slot variation to get recharge bonus and regen bonus:
LoTG: +Recharge
LoTG: Defense
HamiO: Enzyme Exposure
If I can spare the slots an even better alternative is 4 slotted with LoTG to also get a hp bonus:
LoTG: +Recharge
LoTG: Defense
LoTG: Defense/Endurance
LoTG: Defense/Endurance/Recharge
For Maximum Recharge: 6-slot with 5 Red Fortunes with a LoTG: +Recharge
Or, if you need more ranged defense: 6-slot Red Fortunes.
And lastly... here is, in my opinion, the ultimate way to slot a defense power, 4 slotted:
LOTG: +Recharge
Shield Wall: Defense
Shield Wall: Defense/Endurance
Shield Wall: Defense/Endurance/Recharge
This gives you 7.5% recharge, 10% regen, and 2.25% Hitpoints. It's better then 4 slotting LoTGs because the HP bonus is higher. Hitpoints for an /SR makes you godly, so this really really can make a big differense if you do it 5 times in your build. The downside is it costs about 1B inf for each power. (Shield Wall: Defense sells for 500M - 750M). Shred Monkey (DB/SR) has 5 powers slotted with Shield Walls. And thanks to I19 and the medicine pool loaded with numina's he's now got 46% defense to all positions, 1931 hp and a heal... it's quite scary to be honest. -
This is why I did the math they way I did... it's simple. # of hp mitgated > # of hp mitigated. Other questions we frequently get asked here are not so simple and usually require the qualification you all are discussion. THIS question, however, was much simpler.
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Quote:I'm doing something that makes you skeptical? Guess, what... you just stroked my ego. (you can goggle shred monkey and still find my videos. no.. not that guitar playing monkey... that's someone else.)Originally Posted by Pinny
So yeah, let's just say I'm skeptical that a scrapper will be able to solo an AV without temps, inspirations, or -regeneration debuffs. Even MORE skeptical if you try and say you weren't stuffed to the brim with purples and instead "Only had a couple set IOs"
Sounds like ego stroking with no base to me :P
That first mission was awesome. Did anyone else kill everything in the map.. and then swim out hoping to kill the octopus arms in the water? -
Simple math really.
If removing 16% of the attacking damage is higher then 421 hp/min then you're better with the defense.
So the breakpoint is 421/0.16= 2516 HP/min of incoming damage (assume all attacks hit, for that number). I think at level 50 even a single minion would do more damage then that in a minute if all their attacks landed. -
I'm curious about drop rates on shards. I have 2, so I know i've done everything needed to generate drops but I don't know when they dropped. After getting those 2 I went to the Storm Palace and lvl 50+ killed bosses and LTs for over an hour (I watched the last 3/4 of a movie at the same time). 0 drops. I kill fast, so that seems to me like I was either unlucky, or the shadow shard is outside of the effects of the well of furies.
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Don't forget perma-dull pain can put your hitpoints way above most other sets... which is a huge boost to survability. If something has to hit you 6-7 times to kill you through soft-cap'd defenses, that's just not going to happen.
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While it's not a huge boost to regens if you're already maximizing recharge, at least it is a clear benifit. I don't see any other scrapper secondaries benifiting dramatically from the alpha slot. Inherent fitness helps improve mitigation a lot more then the alpha slot does in most builds I've looked at.
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Same answer as most everyone else... I'd rather have the click for a spike of high regen then have a lower level of constant regen that wouldn't be enough to get me through the spikes of damage I might face. If anything I'd rather have it be more clicky... as in higher regen, less duration, on a shorter recharge.
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Quote:I'll try to explain this briefly rather then write a disortation about it. But I think this true by defintion of the way it works.Originally Posted by Donna_
There is a high % of sink on every transaction made through the market... i'm sure that is more than enough for now.
Prices go up... the influence sink burns more influence and keeps inflation in check. Prices go down... the influence sink burns less influence and keeps deflation in check. While we can have events and game changes that cause inflation and/or deflation.... the market's influence sink should prevent a "continuous spiral" effect of increasing or decreaseing prices from ever happening.
People may not like where the market prices have settled... but in theory, prices should always settle. I'm not sure creating a larger influence sink will make people happy as it really won't increase the accessability of the products they want... influence sinks will take influence from them, and accessability will essentually remain the same at a lower price.
I think people would prefer if, instead, drop rates were increased to decrease prices... but then you get into discussions of whether or not people want to play a game where every one can afford to be as powerful as everyone else. -
Easist way to to make said money? At level 20 start running alignment missions. By the time you hit 22 and can slot lvl 25 IOs you should be able to use hero/villian merits to buy a miracle unique recipe and sell it for 100M+.