What makes Invulnerability good?
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-11-27 09:43 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
A Soft-capped Invulnerability can be -mean-. And why is it good? Because soft-capping an Invulnerability Brute/Tank/Scrapper is quite easy relatively speaking.
Originally Posted by Clebstein
Looking at it in Mids, it seems pretty easy to get around 30% defense to all but Psionic with out sets, but all the resists except smashing/lethal are just bad.
At least, on a brute. It looks a lot tougher on a tank (which is expected) but it doesn't seem like the brute version would be very durable. Is there some thing I'm missing?
Imagine having Soft-cap defenses along with capped Smashing/Lethal resistance (which makes up a good majority of all attacks in game) and having moderate resistance to everything else. If you do your soft-capping right, you wouldn't even have to worry a lot about the Psionic hole.
To top it all off...you get a heal and a +HP.
What else do you want?!
Well, each of the resist powers has a status effect resistance attribute to it, also. Resist Energies has -end resist, and Resist Elements has -speed resist. Overall though, those powers, since they're PASSIVES and require no endurance, offer only a small amount of resistance.
Invuln's main strength is in Layered Mitigation. You have SOME defense, SOME resistance, a +HP/Heal power, and a very good "Oh Crap" tier 9. It's basically a Jack-of-all-trades set. Some other sets may offer damage auras or better regen boosting powers or better resists, but some of those sets also have lousy defense, or are toggle/end-heavy, or don't even have knockback protection!
As a Brute, you really do wanna kill things before they have the chance to kill you instead of just soaking damage like a Tank. A brute ISN'T supposed to be "A Tank that does more damage", so don't try to build it like one!
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Because the majority of Really damaging attacks in game, with the exception of certain AVs and mob types, tend to be S/L. Invul can very, very easily run at 90% hardcapped S/L on a tank, shrugging off a lot of attacks like they simply aren't there.
Couple that with easily softcapped defence to all and, well, you have a recipe for one of the toughest Tank sets around.
It ain't shabby on Scrappers or Brutes, either 
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Because of layering; you have Defense which reduces the chance attacks will get through, Resistance reduces the damage those attacks that get through do, a monstrous heal that recovers the twice-reduced damage that you do take, and +HP which effectively increases your regeneration.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Originally Posted by Clebstein
Looking at it in Mids, it seems pretty easy to get around 30% defense to all but Psionic with out sets, but all the resists except smashing/lethal are just bad.
At least, on a brute. It looks a lot tougher on a tank (which is expected) but it doesn't seem like the brute version would be very durable. Is there some thing I'm missing? |
Here, check this build:
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1406;710;1420;HEX;| |78DA9D93DB4E13511486F774A6D49E684B29E558680B142C0CAD4A227A61A24020A| |1095051A3C6A6C2A61DA8D3A62D2A773E8057DE7885A7C7D0C4B3BE94E8B80E9BDA| |6B27E9FF75AF597BED7FD69A293C5D0E08F1EC9AD0FC376AE556AB74BD79D496EE4| |2B962EDFAD6EA76BD59AE96F24B1E2144846E950AB226A509C94F5A631C5996FBD2| |6E4973DD7E7C54B365B3FCD0AA59EDE3C8BA5D954D69B7CDB33FA1CD7ABD666EC8F| |29E6CB6AA562370B66E587625488B55AB526DC3CA47AB6243CABDA19586B56BAE40| |E1CA71A9506EB565F3986D0E82AB59F8ED0685BA1CB73804E485EB8060EC137A2A8| |4C92A2163113EE2068D76B9C4250D43E7738031319FA7D55E50DD87B2DA2620255C| |5B04639BD053244CAE09DC9559277C02D5B9ACA12F52A100570FE708B317197CC86| |7487473BADB7D8B42BD3B8C2DCEDB666B45C64D82046B1E65CD23740C9D83A740FC| |22F84E19BF09813F84086CF1F259BA374685A6C38C2861A18F3000797ED5193FE72| |5FA09494ED720817BEEE841EE4C923B93E6CE64B8335F4143EAC0500AFE64443841| |984C12A6C709552816518F137947D3E97BCB38210CBC62BC268CBE21ECC3AE284DC| |8714779EC833CF6411EFB308F7D98C73ECA63D7C17B4C798AB1A7047B9A604F49F6| |1487BC387B12F1116AB101A121D59721EECB04F76582FBF21D6E8D68E4C835B2083| |0749150CC2B7EC3B7848B88B10B54F70B2CC655683C4EAFE00FEC9F3A2AC547A5F9| |A8341F95022F53CADE54969ECC0B2D9C5165665EF2E02194E59096E5D0DC0B42059| |A67F27EC37C44A1851AE380903F6458849F909853C7E5B2E460D4E87C752EE1C025| |FABB74E3DF5DC177378DCEE764681499EBD2F92E5D353A5FA6E30D0B7CBF0517F9A| |FEB7DE0CC8A77CB075A44D941B98D7207E52ECA3D94FB280F504A28CE87CEEED065| |F4B5847205E52A4A0CFC89E798E9F183F851022841945E94104A18258A328C7282E| |2FC05BE8907FE| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
There's five slots reserved for Health and three for Stamina, on top of having alll thattt awesome.
This would then be topped off by the cardiac radial boost, for 33 end reduct and 20 damage resist, 11 and 6.7 of which will overcap.
That, is why invuln is good.
And let's not forget, Invulnerability has one of the best taunt auras in the game. Invincibility buffs typed Def and ToHit as a defensive toggle. You can max its effectiveness with three Hami Cytos and it can mule whatever Def or ToHit set IOs you like.
Invulnerability is not just varied, with a lot of good defensive effects, it is strong offensively as well. Invincibility will buff your ToHit, making it much easier to get away with lesser Accuracy slotting, or to take on reds and purples. And Unstoppable comes with a nice Endurance recovery boost. (Although many other Tier 9s have that effect too)
Firey Aura and Shield Defense are both much better when it comes to offense, but Invulnerability is, again, somewhere in the middle. It's just a little bit good at everything.
Besides what has been mentioned; with the way Inventions work in this game, once you can get to about 20-25% defense, you have a very good chance of getting to the soft-cap without an excessive amount of money or work.
Even soft-capping Smashing/Lethal is enough, paired with Dull Pain and the high Smashing/Lethal resists to make Invulnerability a powerhouse.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Maybe I should have mentioned that I don't use sets (so I won't be soft capped unless I like it enough to play after hitting 50) but I guess I can see how Invulnerability survives despite some what lesser numbers.
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Those lesser numbers somewhat hide the way Invincibility scales to larger numbers of foes. In all honesty, I consider Invincibility to be 90% of Invulnerability's protection, possibily TOO much. (It makes skipping it a very painful option) |
Originally Posted by Clebstein
Maybe I should have mentioned that I don't use sets (so I won't be soft capped unless I like it enough to play after hitting 50) but I guess I can see how Invulnerability survives despite some what lesser numbers.
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Rise to the Challenge and Energy Absorption in Ice Armor scale in the same way, but IMHO both are somewhat weaker. (Energy Absorption at least you can see it's numerically weaker, RttC is comparing regen to Defense, but I would say with Def's ability to get stronger as it nears the cap it wins out)
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No. If there are two powers in Invulnerability you do not skip, you do not skip Unyielding (because when you're stunned Invincibility doesn't work) and you do not skip Invincibility. Invincibility is the core power of the set. Back in the days it was broken, it was the only power in the set you needed... except when you were fighting one of the enemies that stunned. Those moments between running into a group of enemies and activating Unyielding Stance were fraught with tension.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Those lesser numbers somewhat hide the way Invincibility scales to larger numbers of foes. In all honesty, I consider Invincibility to be 90% of Invulnerability's protection, possibily TOO much. (It makes skipping it a very painful option)
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My Invuln Brute can do +2/x8. She's not soft-capped unless surrounded by about 9 critters though. Which is okay by me. She still has 70% S/L RES and a pretty hefty heal. With i19 she'll get more regen and a tad more DEF. With Incarnate I'll give her more recharge and HP/heal/regen. Should be pretty nifty.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Don't forget, since Invincibility does not attack the foes in any way, you can still have its defense even if you somehow get mezzed (unlike the taunt auras in other sets, which will detoggle if you somehow get mezzed)
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Originally Posted by Starjammer
And let's not forget, Invulnerability has one of the best taunt auras in the game. Invincibility buffs typed Def and ToHit as a defensive toggle. You can max its effectiveness with three Hami Cytos and it can mule whatever Def or ToHit set IOs you like.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Nothing.*|
Originally Posted by Clebstein
What makes Invulnerability good?
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*This post has been slotted with a full set of Perfect Zinger.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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It doesn't detoggle since it doesn't directly affect enemies, but it should suppress the same way other toggles do. Mez protection is the only aspect of any toggle that you can retain while mezzed (although they do keep sucking endurance).|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Don't forget, since Invincibility does not attack the foes in any way, you can still have its defense even if you somehow get mezzed (unlike the taunt auras in other sets, which will detoggle if you somehow get mezzed)
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Unless Invincibility is an exception to that rule for some reason, I haven't personally tested it.
Don't forget perma-dull pain can put your hitpoints way above most other sets... which is a huge boost to survability. If something has to hit you 6-7 times to kill you through soft-cap'd defenses, that's just not going to happen.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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Both Earth and Ice have a version of Dull pain with +max HP.
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Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
Don't forget perma-dull pain can put your hitpoints way above most other sets... which is a huge boost to survability. If something has to hit you 6-7 times to kill you through soft-cap'd defenses, that's just not going to happen.
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Quote:
*clears throat*|
Originally Posted by dechs kaison
nothing.*
*this post has been slotted with a full set of perfect zinger. |
...YOU SHUT YOUR DARK HOLE!
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
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Well, if you want a tank-brute, my advice is to go stone armor. I have a stoner brute and he's very tough and hits hard. Closest thing to a comic book brick in the game.|
Originally Posted by Clebstein
Looking at it in Mids, it seems pretty easy to get around 30% defense to all but Psionic with out sets, but all the resists except smashing/lethal are just bad.
At least, on a brute. It looks a lot tougher on a tank (which is expected) but it doesn't seem like the brute version would be very durable. Is there some thing I'm missing? |
I only have tanker invulns, and I'm not sure I'd recommend invuln on anything other than a tank. In my (considerable) experience, invuln doesn't start to come together for a tank until lvl 40, and doesn't really get supreme until level 50 and well slotted with IOs for high typed defense, with some decent positional defense as well. I imagine it must be even slower going for scrappers and brutes where invuln is the secondary.
I have a nice lvl 50 willpower scrapper, great survivability. Willpower is great out of the box.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
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I'm not really hoping to be a tank, but since being attacked means Fury, I'm intending to get attacked as much as possible...which means I need to be able to survive getting attacked as much as possible.|
Originally Posted by Goldbrick
Well, if you want a tank-brute, my advice is to go stone armor. I have a stoner brute and he's very tough and hits hard. Closest thing to a comic book brick in the game.
I only have tanker invulns, and I'm not sure I'd recommend invuln on anything other than a tank. In my (considerable) experience, invuln doesn't start to come together for a tank until lvl 40, and doesn't really get supreme until level 50 and well slotted with IOs for high typed defense, with some decent positional defense as well. I imagine it must be even slower going for scrappers and brutes where invuln is the secondary. I have a nice lvl 50 willpower scrapper, great survivability. Willpower is great out of the box. |
I'm gonna give it a go (with War Mace as my primary) and see how it turns out.
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I've got a mace/invuln and he's a lot of fun.|
Originally Posted by Clebstein
I'm not really hoping to be a tank, but since being attacked means Fury, I'm intending to get attacked as much as possible...which means I need to be able to survive getting attacked as much as possible.
I'm gonna give it a go (with War Mace as my primary) and see how it turns out. |
=D
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
Don't forget perma-dull pain can put your hitpoints way above most other sets... which is a huge boost to survability. If something has to hit you 6-7 times to kill you through soft-cap'd defenses, that's just not going to happen.
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mmmmmmmmmmmm Perma Dul Pain....
My Inv has it.. hovers near the soft cap.. maxed out Smashing Lethal resistance and actually has decent resistance to Psi with Impervium Armor, Aegis and Impervium Unique and Crushing Impacts... and still has Unstoppable in his back pocket.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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You do realise that defence doesnt stop that, right? Just because they miss doesnt mean you dont get fury. It still counts as an attack, it just did 0 damage. And thus still builds fury.|
Originally Posted by Clebstein
I'm not really hoping to be a tank, but since being attacked means Fury, I'm intending to get attacked as much as possible...which means I need to be able to survive getting attacked as much as possible.
I'm gonna give it a go (with War Mace as my primary) and see how it turns out. |
Invuln is good all round, IMO. People seem to swear by WP, but its also a lot more temperamental. Its eitehr godly...or your muhcing floor every other spawn. Certainly until you get it IO tricked out. Invul? You have res. You have def. When all else fails, you have a chunky heal. Profit.
Combine that with Tough/Weave and IOs and its simply sick and wrong and, thus, awesome.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Looking at it in Mids, it seems pretty easy to get around 30% defense to all but Psionic with out sets, but all the resists except smashing/lethal are just bad.
At least, on a brute. It looks a lot tougher on a tank (which is expected) but it doesn't seem like the brute version would be very durable. Is there some thing I'm missing?