I doubt that even the Plan Z folks expect to make a game that's going to attract the same size audience that COX had ... or that they'll have a game with the same level of complexity or lore that COH had right off the bat.
On the other hand, what do they have to lose? The worst that happens is they fail ... what's worse? Trying and failing-- or doing nothing?
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links
Quote:
Grow up. This has nothing to do with beating down innocent and idealistic people trying to "do good". This has to do with mocking people for being pie-in-the-sky idiots. There is a distinct difference, and that difference is known as "reality".
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
It's amazing how much some people in this thread who stand under the glorious banner of logic, seem to have nothing better to do than ridicule others who are trying to do something good.
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Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
It's like Noah building an Ark while the townspeople stand around and spend all their time heckling.
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Originally Posted by BlueBattler
I doubt that even the Plan Z folks expect to make a game that's going to attract the same size audience that COX had ... or that they'll have a game with the same level of complexity or lore that COH had right off the bat.
On the other hand, what do they have to lose? The worst that happens is they fail ... what's worse? Trying and failing-- or doing nothing? |
Quote:
Trying and failing, because then I can mercilessly mock them for being pie-in-the-sky idiots. Again, Plan Z doesn't have a chance. Not even an infinitesimal one. The best they could create is a 2-D java CoH.
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Originally Posted by BlueBattler
I doubt that even the Plan Z folks expect to make a game that's going to attract the same size audience that COX had ... or that they'll have a game with the same level of complexity or lore that COH had right off the bat.
On the other hand, what do they have to lose? The worst that happens is they fail ... what's worse? Trying and failing-- or doing nothing? |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
That's exactly what it is. A great metaphor, actually: something utterly impossible to build that could only work in fiction, believed in by total twits whose worldview is completely divorced from reality.
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
It's like Noah building an Ark while the townspeople stand around and spend all their time heckling.
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Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
Pfft. You're deluded by your own sense of self-righteousness. People being pie-in-the-sky-idiots, as you say, does not justify you being a complete donkey orifice. The best you could do would be to say, "Do you realize how hard it is... that thing you're trying to do?" But you're not doing that. You're not logical. You're not doing anything benevolent, or impeding attempts at progress for the sake of saving anyone from wasting their time. You're just being a bully. You simply use logic as a crutch to excuse your desire to do harm.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Grow up. This has nothing to do with beating down innocent and idealistic people trying to "do good". This has to do with mocking people for being pie-in-the-sky idiots. There is a distinct difference, and that difference is known as "reality".
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Quote:
And I'm sure they are TERRIBLY wounded by your lack of faith in them. |
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Trying and failing, because then I can mercilessly mock them for being pie-in-the-sky idiots. Again, Plan Z doesn't have a chance. Not even an infinitesimal one. The best they could create is a 2-D java CoH.
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Really.
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links
Quote:
"Good" is contextually relevant. If you believe, as I do, that there is a lot of wishful thinking going into deluding other players that there is hope for another game coming RSN, only to yank the carpet from under them when reality sinks in.....that's not "Good." Particularly if we are talking about some players that view this as far more than a game.|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
It's amazing how much some people in this thread who stand under the glorious banner of logic, seem to have nothing better to do than ridicule others who are trying to do something good.
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I would consider the leadership of Plan Z to be playing on people's emotions for a quick ego trip if I wanted to ascribe malice. As it stands, I only see the naive leading the gullible so.....
Quote:
More of Angry Citizen's non-logic.|
Originally Posted by BlueBattler
And I'm sure they are TERRIBLY wounded by your lack of faith in them.
Really. |
"People should not try to accomplish anything that seems impossible, because if they fail, I will be there to make fun of them and will try to ensure that the emotional impact of the failure cuts deeply."
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CyberGlitch
"Good" is contextually relevant. If you believe, as I do, that there is a lot of wishful thinking going into deluding other players that there is hope for another game coming RSN, only to yank the carpet from under them when reality sinks in.....that's not "Good." Particularly if we are talking about some players that view this as far more than a game.
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Quote:
You know, for as much as they claim to not care and be above such petty things as attachments they do seem to be in the anger stage of grieving.
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
More of Angry Citizen's non-logic.
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As the person who is managing the business and marketing aspects of Plan Z, as well as the person who is doing Voices from Paragon, I'm largely amused by this thread.
Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.
~Sun Tzu
We don't expect to succeed, but we certainly don't view failure as a possibility, because everything we are doing translates into skills that can be applied elsewhere. What we're doing is neither impossible nor unreasonable, as we expect this to take several years before we achieve a finished product.
Regardless of how it ends, it will have been worth it - we will have enabled the community of City of Heroes to survive.
Quote:
You will have enabled the re-imagined Community of your own editorial making. Nothing more or less.
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Originally Posted by Terwyn
Regardless of how it ends, it will have been worth it - we will have enabled the community of City of Heroes to survive. |
Quote:
You're right, I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's a complete waste of time, and it always was, because it's not just hard, it's flat out impossible. I mean, I'm in engineering, specifically aerospace. We do "impossible" things all the time. But there's a difference between "impossible" in the sense of building a hypersonic aircraft, and flat out f'ing impossible in the sense of a few amateur codewriters building a brand new game from the ground up in their spare time, with no dedicated facilities, across an entire country (and who knows, maybe some of them are across an entire ocean too). That'd be more like "violate conservation of energy" levels of impossible.|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Pfft. You're deluded by your own sense of self-righteousness. People being pie-in-the-sky-idiots, as you say, does not justify you being a complete donkey orifice. The best you could do would be to say, "Do you realize how hard it is... that thing you're trying to do?" But you're not doing that. You're not logical. You're not doing anything benevolent, or impeding attempts at progress for the sake of saving anyone from wasting their time. You're just being a bully. You simply use logic as a crutch to excuse your desire to do harm.
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Enough inspirational BS about how you just gotta try, and then watch as things fall into place. They won't. I'd take a note from Romney's book and make a ten thousand dollar wager against it. Like I said, the best we can hope for from these yahoos is a java game.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
Have a little faith, good person.|
Originally Posted by CyberGlitch
You will have enabled the re-imagined Community of your own editorial making. Nothing more or less.
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What we are doing is building a game around a pre-existing community, which is something that has never been done before. I guarantee that what helped to make the City of Heroes community strong will be preserved in Plan Z.
Quote:
I'm sure they are. They're human. If I had an idea and wanted to work on a project, but everyone told me it was a stupid idea and I was wasting my time, I'd have second thoughts on it.
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Originally Posted by BlueBattler
And I'm sure they are TERRIBLY wounded by your lack of faith in them.
Really. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
Fire yourself, mate. You suck at marketing. This nonsensical statement alone is proof of that.| We don't expect to succeed, but we certainly don't view failure as a possibility |
"We won't win, but we sure as hell won't lose!" Either a game gets built or it doesn't. Design is a binary thing. It works or it doesn't. There is no "sorta".
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
You must get that a lot then - not just on the internet but in real life.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
If I had an idea and wanted to work on a project, but everyone told me it was a stupid idea and I was wasting my time, I'd have second thoughts on it.
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You have my sympathies.
Quote:
In fairness to myself, I'll be long gone before I can get a chance to gloat. And when Plan Z fails, and fail it will most spectacularly, no one will be around to gloat at.
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More of Angry Citizen's non-logic. "People should not try to accomplish anything that seems impossible, because if they fail, I will be there to make fun of them and will try to ensure that the emotional impact of the failure cuts deeply." |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
I did, yes, particularly when I tried to get stalkers fixed in I...12 I believe. Y'know what? The folks were right. *shrug*
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
You must get that a lot then - not just on the internet but in real life.
You have my sympathies. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
You're not helping your point here.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
I'm sure they are. They're human. If I had an idea and wanted to work on a project, but everyone told me it was a stupid idea and I was wasting my time, I'd have second thoughts on it.
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There are MANY projects that conventional wisdom held were doomed to failure. They still succeeded.
Of course, quite a few more failed than succeeded, but if no one tried anything that seemed destined for failure mankind would never have gotten as far as the wheel.
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links
Quote:
I'm not a professional programer by any means. But I know enough of it to understand how crazy it is. But it's no less or more 'impossible' than in your engineering scenarios. I've seen incredible feats done with just a single page of code. As for the coders being amateur, often the only difference between amateur and professional is, whether or not they're being paid. Not being paid makes everyone arrive at the conclusion that the person is automatically an idiot. So if you mean amateur in the way most do, it's a great discredit to not only them, but millions of people around the world. This was always the case, but even moreso in the current economy. Many of the ex PS employees have already proven themselves and haven't found work. And there are countless geniuses out there in their chosen fields of expertise who can't and will never be able to find work in those fields, because it simply isn't there. Maybe the word you're really looking for is novice. The word 'amateur' does not give anyone a real clue about an individual's abilities.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
You're right, I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's a complete waste of time, and it always was, because it's not just hard, it's flat out impossible. I mean, I'm in engineering, specifically aerospace. We do "impossible" things all the time. But there's a difference between "impossible" in the sense of building a hypersonic aircraft, and flat out f'ing impossible in the sense of a few amateur codewriters building a brand new game from the ground up in their spare time, with no dedicated facilities, across an entire country (and who knows, maybe some of them are across an entire ocean too). That'd be more like "violate conservation of energy" levels of impossible.
Enough inspirational BS about how you just gotta try, and then watch as things fall into place. They won't. I'd take a note from Romney's book and make a ten thousand dollar wager against it. Like I said, the best we can hope for from these yahoos is a java game. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
If I had an idea and wanted to work on a project, but everyone told me it was a stupid idea and I was wasting my time, I'd have second thoughts on it.
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Quote:
Sure there is.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Fire yourself, mate. You suck at marketing. This nonsensical statement alone is proof of that.
"We won't win, but we sure as hell won't lose!" Either a game gets built or it doesn't. Design is a binary thing. It works or it doesn't. There is no "sorta". |
Plan Z could never get anything even to beta. Plan Z could get something to beta that never gets out of beta. Plan Z could get a working game published that fails to find an audience.
Or they make a game that attracts a small audience.
Or they make a game that exceeds all their expectations and wildest hopes.
Real life is not binary.
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links
Quote:
I don't have a crystal ball to know if Plan Z will turn out to be anything more than a pipe dream, and I don't wish the project ill, but the quoted statement is false. The City of Heroes community dies the moment they turn off the servers and shut down the boards. It won't, and can't, be saved. If it was ever possible to save it, and I'm not convinced of such, that time is well past, and could only be done by NCSoft. All you'll have managed to do, for an indeterminable amount of time, is enlarge the Titan forums community. The two are not synonymous, and it is naieve at best and arrogant at worst to believe they are. The Titan forums are no more the inheritor of the City of community than the Unleashed forums, NcSoft's Facebook page, or a random fan's twitter.
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Originally Posted by Terwyn
Regardless of how it ends, it will have been worth it - we will have enabled the community of City of Heroes to survive.
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The City of Heroes community is already dead. This forum is proof.
Plan Z may or may not form a new community from some of the remnants, but it won't be the same either way.
And even though they ardently defend one group's ability to make decisions with no input from those affected by the decision they seem to violently oppose another group's ability to make decisions that affect only those making the decision, which doesn't seem all that logical or rational.