So What is Plan Z?

And continued to ignore it.

Thank you for your continued devotion to your tabloid reporting.

Yes I mean it's not like you can tell if a movie is a success after the first week. How much has GW2 sold ? 100 million ? 150 Million ? sounds like failure to me.

Damn those invisible pink unicorns - I've yet to spot one.

How are you dealing with the green elephants on your walls?

And all those millions are doing wonders for NC's stocks.

I'm not just talking about this thread. I'm talking bout in general.

Sound like you need to take your own advice there, buddy. "Don't go hitting people and then cry victim when they hit back" like they have been doing. I bet you can ask I Burnt the Toast how many names he been called by them people and it will be a laundry list, and how many times they just insulted Angry Citizen for no reason, and other people around here that did not share their enthuse or view of things. I think no one is crying victim besides you people. You said you want the insults and attacks to stop yet continue to attack people. Yet, you speak of this stuff but do nothing to stop. It's simple insult us, we'll insult you. Bring up what you think about Plan Z, we'll bring up what we think about plan Z, Bring up how righteous you think Titan network is, we'll give our view. You dont want our view on things, then dont bring up stuff. As you all told me in the past. This is a public forum, if ya dotn want the topic to be discussed then dotn post it. But I suppose you think that only applies to me and you and your ilk are above that huh?

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

The hacked account issue shouldn't have happened.

Bugs are a reality in all games, it's just the ones I've found in GW2 to be very problematic.

Lack of end game wasn't so much of a problem for CoH as it is for many other titles - it is very easy to go find something to do that you may not have done before, after all.

And yes, I have found the game play of GW2 to be substandard, especially in comparison to the technology they put into the game. They have a lot of great ideas, but the execution just isn't there.

You knowing more people playing GW2 than you do City of Heroes is merely evidence that the people you know have certain tastes.

Tabloid reporting ?

The people you talk about never saw a problem in anything the devs did with this game. NEVER. When the devs were forced by overwhelming weight of failure to change or fix things they would both change their positions and forget they were ever anything else so speedily Winston Smith would boggle at it.

You are correct. Their capacity to ignore absolutely anything is truly stupendous. They ignored the fact that people rejected the changes they endorsed in this game. They ignored the fact that the games revenues had and continued to decline and called this healthy despite the fact other MMOs even older ones had managed to grow with the greater acceptance of computer gaming.

There is nothing short of the complete logical breakdown associated with religion that can explain how anyone could look at CoHs sales and say "But we were doing so well". I mean my gawd Comic book charcters and interest in superheros are at their absolute zenith and this game couldn't get any upswing from that ? If that doesn't let you know it had deep problems nothing will.

I see you don't even read your own boards or know the community you are claiming to create.

Except you're not attacking Plan Z here. You're attacking the devs. There's nothing constructive about the name-calling. And tbh, even if the allegations of religious zealotry were accurate, that would still have no bearing on whether or not the project can succeed. Zealotry has given people the strength to win wars against insurmountable odds. And, for a non-profit project, what more can you expect people to do? If you're making a game, you either do it for profit, or you do it because you believe in it (or both if you're really lucky). In a non-profit scenario, faith is really the only thing that developers have to carry them through the insanely long, boring, and grueling process of making a functional game.

If you want to pick fights with folks from Titan who have been being jerks, there are far better threads suited for that. Certainly not this one. For whatever has been going on elsewhere that I've missed out on though, and anything I've said that was over-the-top, you have my apologies. But I at least TRY to keep my mud-slinging to a minimum. I'm pretty sure the most offensive thing I've regularly thrown around is "robot."

And in case anyone has been wondering, I'm not on the Plan Z team.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Three times now.

And another tabloid move. You know exactly who I was talking about, and it wasn't the Titan folk.

I'm not painting GW2 as a failure. I'm simply not painting it as a success yet. There is a difference. If I were painting it as a failure, I'd be quite clearly predicting a time frame for its shut down. The difference between a successful launch and a successful product can be very easily illustrated: Research In Motion vs. Apple. In one corner, we have a company that created a market, and in the other we have a company that usurped dominance of that same market.

I will believe that GW2 is a success when it manages to reverse the fortunes of its publisher. Going by NCSoft's current stock performance, I have reasons to maintain my doubts.

I've already stated in this thread that I think the artistic content stands a much better chance at impeding the completion of Plan Z than the programming does. Physics isn't all that bad. And collisions... I don't even know if they plan on having them. Numerous MMO's don't bother with body collision. And they may or may not license an existing engine to take care of a lot of the busy work. But the body models, the costume pieces, animations, map assets, MOB/NPC's... oh my...

Which last clip are you talking about and in which video? I need something a little more specific.

At a guess then you aren't a programmer.

I think you over-estimate the impact the success or failure of Plan Z will have. I don't think there will be anything spectacular about its failure at all. In fact, my guess is, it will disappear gradually, with the majority of people (at least those currently on this board) not even aware that it went away.

I am thrilled that the Plan Z people are doing their project. I hope that it turns into something playable. I doubt it will. I have seen too many of these kinds of projects spring up. Hell, the old COHEMU project looked to have a lot of steam. They had a pretty good project plan, and a lot of people chipping in. Over time, more people started dropping out, and eventually, the whole project just vanished. Sure, there were other considerations. I know they had been skirting legal trouble for reverse engineering (ok, I don't KNOW that, it was what was being said about the lack of progress). I foresee Plan Z going exactly the same way. A group of well-meaning people, who will lose interest. It is hard to put a ton of effort into something with no monetary return. Some of the people involved can get away with it, because they have enough money to not worry about recompense in the near term. For most people though, they have bills to pay, and other obligations. Even if the entire group stayed together, the amount of time it would take to get something beyond a rudimentary game, would mean that very few people are going to be interested in even playing it.

Does it mean that it will never happen? No. Crossroads of the Elements was an old BBS game on MajorBBS/WorldGroup. It was very popular. After the whole BBS scene disappeared, due to the internet becoming so big, one of the original programmers, and some other fans, got together, and set up a version on a standalone server that anyone could play. Then they began doing a complete remake of the game. This has been going on for YEARS now, and the project still isn't available. It is being done the same way as Plan Z, and the people involved are quite talented. They also have the added benefit of having one of the original programmers there to help them figure out how the underlying system worked. Plan Z won't have that benefit.

In any case, I still enjoy watching all the bickering between the Titan people and anyone who doesn't think they will succeed. For those vocal Titan people, just a small observation from me, take it as you will. I've been playing CoH since right before I3. The game is extremely important to me, for a number of reasons. I don't particular support Titan in their endeavors, almost entirely because of the attitude presented, both here and on the Titan boards themselves. Do I think that many of you are being unfairly targeted? Yes. There are any number of people over there that are involved in this project, that I have quite a bit of respect for. The problem is, so many of you "stoop to their level". That isn't exactly the best way to garner support for a project. I am not going into the other types of posts I have read from people that smacks of either a cult, or just people that have no clue what they are doing. That is a whole other discussion. Being passionate about a project does not mean that you can just turn off your filters and type out whatever pops into your head. It makes the entire project look bad. And I am well aware that some of the more vocal people, aren't even directly related to the project. The fact that the people in charge of the project aren't keeping reign on their supporters, or distancing themselves from the more ... out there supporters, is what really makes me not want to support the project.

OK, carry on.

That's an invalid criteria for success. What you are trying to say is that GW2 is only a success if it performs so well that it makes up for any lack of success in every other product NCSoft makes. You're judging GW2's success on NCSoft's portfolio performance rather than its own financial merits.

Frankly, that's absurd. You might as well say the Corvette is a failed model of automobile, or Cadillac a failed brand, because they didn't keep GM out of bankruptcy singlehandedly.

Yeah, the ones that constantly attacked me in the past, and wonder where this animosity comes from? What did they expect. When I state my opion on the subject and they start calling me names what I'm suppose to bow down to them? Aint happening. if they want to state their opinion, that is fine with me, but I have asked them to show the same respect for mine, but no, they couldnt do that. So I guess that is the law of the west around here now. Dont bother attacking the idea, attack the person.

I'm not producing an environment here, I AM a product of this environment.

I think this is the third time me saying this, but I'm goign to say it one last time and if it's ignored this time, then what am I suppose to think besides that is the way they want it to continue. Simple, respect opinions that do not line up with the whole emotional, less emotion, planz ,plan 3,000, and etc and respect will come that way. But if this self-righteuous better than thou attitude and views continue, then what do they expect from these 19 days. I would prefer they get it together now, but even after Nov. 30 and Plan Z reaches a point where it either has to be serious commitment or sink, they have to clean up that image.

If COX based their entire existance on downing Blizzard every chance they get, and treating outside ideas, views, opinions with contempt because they are the view they hold, then how many people you would think would bother with this game? What kind of buisness would give their financial backing to an upstart company that is in disarray, constantly trying to smear a corporation, seemingly out more for revenge than tryign to build something positive, and make many statements that is pretty much straight disrespect to the Korean and or Asian culture and that one statement made earlier isnt the first one to come out that group. If you build a foundation that is that shaky, the project is bound to fail. And this is not me saying that Plan Z will fail or my view on it. This is about as "human" of a response you will get out of me. Seriously, get it together if you want to go far. I rather look in the store one day and say "Well I be damned, them dang on zealots pulled it off." Instead of "Well, seen the failure from a mile away. They just couldnt get it together. Great idea, but poor execution." At some point in time, the truth will have to be faced and the fear of it must go away or else all you all are doing is a worse service than any of the trolls over here, NCsoft, can ever do. That is raising people's hope only thinking that another game for them by them is coming only to dash them. Right now, you are setting yourself to take NCSoft place in crosshairs of their anger. For the projects sakes, get serious and if the people that is in charge of the project wont get serious make them get serious. How is it coming along, have they foudn a way to finance it. Hell, do they even have a buisness plan and or timeline and benchmark goals? Or is it all on the fly? Do they even realize what goes into making a game really or they only seen the glorious side and finished products?

And those questions dont even have to be answered outloud, as they might not even know the answers yet. But they should at least just think about it and think about what they are actually doing regardless of the show and chest puffing display they put on. Seen so many "oh it dont matter if it fails. And stuff." What financial backer wants to invest in a company with that mindset? What are they doing to ensure that it dont fail. Failure should not even be an option and if it is might as well pack it up, and go home.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

You misunderstand. I am saying that I will believe that GW2 will be a success if it demonstrates that NCSoft can actually be trusted to deliver on its promises.

It won't be able to reverse the financial fortunes of NCSoft, but what it can do, however, is lead to a change in the way NCSoft is perceived as a company.

Aha, I did misunderstand. I don't really know enough about NCSoft's internal organization to speak on it the way someone like Father Xmas can, but my impression is that NCSoft treats Arenanet differently than they do NC West, which Paragon Studios was a part of.

To really get an idea of a change in corporate handling, it will take a larger data set. For example, how Wildstar performs and how they treat the property and Carbine based on that.

To make a comparison, my impression is that NCSoft treats Anet as Activision/Blizzard treats Blizzard, and everyone else the way EA treated Westwood.

It will be interesting to see where Carbine falls.

Quite true. This is why I have not drawn any solid conclusions just yet.

Nah, I would have called you a ****** then, too. I just would have gotten modded for it.

Like I said, calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

I honestly do not know what this is supposed to mean.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

I really like this post. It says what I intended to say back on the first page in a nice, Rated-G way.



But I also really like the emphasis that profanity provides, so I still say go **** yourselves.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!