NCSoft Crushes the Hopes of CoH Fans....New Massively Article
By
Angry_Citizen,
Posted on: 2012-10-03 04:17 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I think the best thing you could reply with is to tell Massively that as long as they are going to cover (and therefore provide publicity for) other NCSoft games like Guild Wars and especially Blade and Soul, that you will not be giving them traffic.
It's not about "punishing" Massively or anything so juvenile. In fact, Eliot Lefebvre and others at Massively have been very supportive of CoH and player efforts to save it.
It's about sending them a message that they can convey to NCSoft's PR outlets that the MMO community doesn't approve of their actions with CoH's closing; that if they're going to shut down a profitable, well respected and long established MMO for no good reason, and then 'ignore' player outcry, they are not to be trusted with our money.
Because if NC will do that, what's to say they're not going to just shut down any game at any time "just because"?
If you can get Massively and other MMO news sites to do that, to say to NCSoft their their actions will not stand and that they are no longer trustworthy as a MMO publisher and are not worth covering, they'd feel that. Even if Massively were the only site to do so, it would still make waves.
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No.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I think the best thing you could reply with is to tell Massively that as long as they are going to cover (and therefore provide publicity for) other NCSoft games like Guild Wars and especially Blade and Soul, that you will not be giving them traffic.
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Massively's job is to cover as many different games as they can. Punishing them for doing their job is stupid. It'd be like writing to a newspaper and telling them "I won't be buying you because, even though your news coverage is great, you have an sports section and I hate sports."
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
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It's Massively's job to cover real news. If a 6 year old child sends them an email with crayon-drawn concept art and asks them to cover a "video game" he's making and self-publishing, they're not going to report on that because he's not reliable. If Cletus McTinfoilhat sends a letter to the New York Times that the US President is a reptilian alien, they are not going to give him front page coverage because he is not reliable.|
Originally Posted by Leandro
Massively's job is to cover as many different games as they can. Punishing them for doing their job is stupid.
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They have to have standards. It would reflect badly on their publication.
NCSoft has also demonstrated that they are unreliable and therefore should be below Massively's standards to cover. They'll shut down a well-regarded milestone of a MMO that's still profitable for no good reason and tell customers of 8 years to kiss off. They'll forge a resignation letter while someone is not even on the planet. They shut down MMOs so often it's become a running gag.
That kind of activity should not be supported or endorsed by any fans of MMOs, Massively staff included. I don't want NCSoft's games to be covered any more than I want "Cheap Meds from China" email scams to be taking out full page ads in the New England Journal of Medicine.
Massively.com: Until NCSoft changes their ways I will not knowingly be giving you any traffic while you continue to give positive coverage to Guild Wars 2, Blade and Soul, Wildstar Online or any other NCSoft game. It reflects badly on your publication and on your standards and I will be urging others to similarly avoid you and other sites that also endorse NCSoft's actions.
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Your proposal sucks, JB. Just like the last proposal you made, and the proposal before that. No means no.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
I have to agree with Leandro on this. What you are suggesting, Johnny, is the equivalent of NCSoft telling Massiively, "We don't like your coverage of these crazy protests being run in OUR game, on OUR servers - if you want any exclusives about GW2 or Blade & Soul you will pull these stories."
Don't shoot the messenger. NCSoft's press release is a public document and Massively have every right to report it and comment on it, whatever we might think personally of it. To expect them to do otherwise completely undermines the job they are trying to do. We can't expect Massively to only cover one side of the story (ours) and retain any sort of credibility as a news site.
Remember, fans of GW2 or other NCSoft games will be coming to Massively expecting coverage of their games. Why should they be disadvantaged just because we disagree with NCSoft? How does that make us look?
If you don't like them covering the announcement or the announcement itself then that's what their comments system is for but personally I'd focus on the announcement itself rather than attack Massively just for doing their job.
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Bam. This.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Your proposal sucks, JB. Just like the last proposal you made, and the proposal before that. No means no.
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Quite so, and this includes covering the MMO industry in general.|
Originally Posted by Leandro
Massively's job is to cover as many different games as they can.
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This means that if they cover NCSoft and its games, they're not doing their job if they overlook the company's past behavior, which wasn't exactly that of a paragon of corporate rectitude. Anyone who now reports on Blade & Soul or Wild Star ought to note that they're coming from a publisher notorious for abruptly terminating promising games. Since MMOs require a medium- to long-term investment from their players, that's a pretty damning reputation.
I'm afraid I couldn't agree to boycott a online information publisher solely for the reason that they're publishing articles about games from a particular company.
To expect that Massively would change its method of reporting or info sharing based on my disgruntlement with NCSoft is not fair to Massively or its readership.
Man, I have to apologize to anyone I ever judged for nit-picking tiny game-related details on these forums. To you I say: I am sorry. After reading through some of the exchanges taking place on that article, I now see that you at least had a focus and a goal toward which you were working. There, I see one faceless person trying to sway the opinion of another faceless person about a video game, and the way in which a faceless corporation is closing down said video game. Oh, and all of that is taking place on the open internet...
I mean, the dictionary definition of "insanity" needs to be updated with that description!
But I digress. I appreciate Massively's continued coverage of our game's predicament, and I don't fault them for covering all of the MMO market since that is their job. I can only hope that, through this coverage, the gaming community is made better aware of NCSoft's M.O.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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It made me chuckle to imagine every article about every NCSoft game in the future having the line "from NCSoft the company which used to publish and then cancelled X, Y, Z, A, B, C, etc."
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Quite so, and this includes covering the MMO industry in general.
This means that if they cover NCSoft and its games, they're not doing their job if they overlook the company's past behavior, which wasn't exactly that of a paragon of corporate rectitude. Anyone who now reports on Blade & Soul or Wild Star ought to note that they're coming from a publisher notorious for abruptly terminating promising games. Since MMOs require a medium- to long-term investment from their players, that's a pretty damning reputation. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Yeah, it is a bit crazy - that is one reason why I'm posting on Massively under my real name and face: "Larryn" - my actual real-life surname is a four-letter word the forum won't let me type. (Plus it's easier logging into Massively with my facebook profile) 
I can understand fans like me posting our thoughts and arguing the toss but the hardcore 'business experts' trying to convince us of the wonders of free-market capitalism like their lives depend on it baffles me a little. We're fans - we're supposed to be emotional about the game. Are they really that excited about corporate business practices?
I'm happy to throw money and opinions at SaveCOH - might as well throw my reputation onto the bonfire as well!
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You're asking Massively to take what amounts to a political stance against a corporation just because your favorite game got nuked after eight years. Frow. The. Guck. Up.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Quite so, and this includes covering the MMO industry in general.
This means that if they cover NCSoft and its games, they're not doing their job if they overlook the company's past behavior, which wasn't exactly that of a paragon of corporate rectitude. Anyone who now reports on Blade & Soul or Wild Star ought to note that they're coming from a publisher notorious for abruptly terminating promising games. Since MMOs require a medium- to long-term investment from their players, that's a pretty damning reputation. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Now, now, NCSoft didn't crush our hopes - they merely enflamed our resolve to carry on the fight.
Read the article. Very short sighted. Massively just lost some credit IMO. And the responses. There's one person there actively making it seem like we're a "cry baby" lot when that is simply not the case. We are a community that cares deeply about a game that turned us into creators. No other MMO feels the way CoH does. Tearing the tools away from artists is heart breaking and I think our mature response to the whole thing gives us reason to hold our heads high.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
It's Massively's job to cover real news. If a 6 year old child sends them an email with crayon-drawn concept art and asks them to cover a "video game" he's making and self-publishing, they're not going to report on that because he's not reliable. If Cletus McTinfoilhat sends a letter to the New York Times that the US President is a reptilian alien, they are not going to give him front page coverage because he is not reliable.
They have to have standards. It would reflect badly on their publication. NCSoft has also demonstrated that they are unreliable and therefore should be below Massively's standards to cover. They'll shut down a well-regarded milestone of a MMO that's still profitable for no good reason and tell customers of 8 years to kiss off. They'll forge a resignation letter while someone is not even on the planet. They shut down MMOs so often it's become a running gag. That kind of activity should not be supported or endorsed by any fans of MMOs, Massively staff included. I don't want NCSoft's games to be covered any more than I want "Cheap Meds from China" email scams to be taking out full page ads in the New England Journal of Medicine. Massively.com: Until NCSoft changes their ways I will not knowingly be giving you any traffic while you continue to give positive coverage to Guild Wars 2, Blade and Soul, Wildstar Online or any other NCSoft game. It reflects badly on your publication and on your standards and I will be urging others to similarly avoid you and other sites that also endorse NCSoft's actions. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Massively's my go-to site for MMO news. The writers care about the games and industry, and there's the Storyboard segments that occasionally catch my interest. Its more than just a news aggregator and review site.
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Actually, there is a definition that's been around longer than CoH itself:|
Originally Posted by Winterminal
Man, I have to apologize to anyone I ever judged for nit-picking tiny game-related details on these forums. To you I say: I am sorry. After reading through some of the exchanges taking place on that article, I now see that you at least had a focus and a goal toward which you were working. There, I see one faceless person trying to sway the opinion of another faceless person about a video game, and the way in which a faceless corporation is closing down said video game. Oh, and all of that is taking place on the open internet...
I mean, the dictionary definition of "insanity" needs to be updated with that description! |
Heck, we're not safe even here. Just look at Johnny's post.
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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Eh, a game reviewing writing about Blade & Soul's combat mechanics needn't lead with a precis of NCSoft's dubious corporate practices, but that doesn't change the reasons why NCSoft deserves an enormous caveat emptor overall.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
You're asking Massively to take what amounts to a political stance against a corporation just because your favorite game got nuked after eight years. Frow. The. Guck. Up.
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This isn't just about CoH—as has been discussed many times here, Auto Assault, Dungeon Runners, and Tabula Rasa are also notches in NCSoft's belt, to say nothing of their fraudulent dealings with Richard Garriott. Anyone covering the games industry owes their readers the due diligence necessary for playing an NCSoft game at this point. (Ironically, I was initially wary about taking up CoH because of NCSoft's general reputation but was won over by the Paragon Studios team.)
This isn't politics, just business.
Auto Assault wasn't profitable, and whether they forged that crazy mf'ers letter of resignation remains unproven. He won a civil judgment, remember, not a criminal judgment. Civil judgments only require a preponderance of evidence, not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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I have insider information on that, and all I'll say is there was reason to be suspicious.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Auto Assault wasn't profitable, and whether they forged that crazy mf'ers letter of resignation remains unproven. He won a civil judgment, remember, not a criminal judgment. Civil judgments only require a preponderance of evidence, not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Not going to deny that.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I have insider information on that, and all I'll say is there was reason to be suspicious.
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But just like Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa was just not bringing in the readies. Infact, it was bringing in *less* money (excluding its opening quarter) than what Guild Wars was bringing up till Q1 2012.
Yep, a *subscription* MMO, that had just launched (with a box cost), was bringing in *less* than what Guild Wars (a buy to play game)
So yes, I am also inclined to believe that there were *serious* financial problems with it (side note: It also brought in less money than CoX has since the launch of freedom)
Massively's comment section is a huge buzzkill.
@Kyuu
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Right-o. I think it's easier to believe that Lord British is just ******* crazy.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I have insider information on that, and all I'll say is there was reason to be suspicious.
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Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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Don't waste your time. Remember: reading that kind of stuff gains you nothing, responding to it gains you even less. Faceless names on the internet that are trying to give someone's opinion a 180, failing to realize that the satisfaction they will gain from doing so will last less time than it took for them to type their post/response. And that goes for both sides. *shrug*
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Originally Posted by Kyuuen
Massively's comment section is a huge buzzkill.
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@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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I agree.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Your proposal sucks, JB. Just like the last proposal you made, and the proposal before that. No means no.
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Then again, I don't believe in pursuing anything else either. It's over - I don't want to hear about emulation/reverse engineering efforts either, because we all know how that will go.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10...f-heroes-fans/
There are already 157 responses to yesterday's announcement by NCSoft on Massively.com's new "NCSoft Crushes the Hopes of CoH Fans" article.
All those wanting NCSoft to know how they feel, please add your own post as well! This article is already listed at the top right under "Breaking News" too, so it will grab peoples' attention even after it rolls off the front page. Let's give NCSoft something to read here!