So, Marauder, Aurora Borealis, and Pendragon walk into Atlas Park...


Agent White

 

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Originally Posted by Trickshooter View Post
I'm not sure it makes sense for any character between levels 1-49 to see any of those three characters hanging out in Atlas, since for their 'personal timeline', those three characters are still hanging out in non-exploded Praetoria.
I think the devs have made it pretty clear that the world will be moving forward in ways that affect even level 1 characters. Personal timelines are becoming less relevant than the world timeline. We will need to pretend things ourselves about how the older stories fit in.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

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Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
I think the devs have made it pretty clear that the world will be moving forward in ways that affect even level 1 characters. Personal timelines are becoming less relevant than the world timeline. We will need to pretend things ourselves about how the older stories fit in.
Still would seem pretty strange to have new characters doing stuff like... training up at Marauder at level 1 and then fighting him in Praetoria at level 50 and he doesn't know who you are. I'm sure there are situations like this in-game already, but still seems off if that ends up being the case.

That's why I'm not sure the image set-up is as literal as some people are assuming.


Trickshooter's Characters | @Trickshooter @Brightside

 

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Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
I think the devs have made it pretty clear that the world will be moving forward in ways that affect even level 1 characters. Personal timelines are becoming less relevant than the world timeline. We will need to pretend things ourselves about how the older stories fit in.

Yeah. But there's a lot to be said for internal consistency.
Otherwise, why have ANY storylines at all?
It's all just a bunch of "Go, hunt, kill skuls"



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Originally Posted by Trickshooter View Post
That's why I'm not sure the image set-up is as literal as some people are assuming.
I don't think it is literal, but I am worried that Marauder is standing in a central location with two others whom I would consider of opposing beliefs.

I would be thrilled for Marauder to be featured more in game, I love his look, his dialogue and his attitude (like I love Alan Rickman's villains or Jafar or Maleficent). I could even see him as a Rogue, not a pure Villain. I just don't want to stomach him as redeemed (or at least not yet, I could enjoy a story line that redeems him).

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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
Yeah. But there's a lot to be said for internal consistency.
We missed that boat already and I am not going to shed tears anymore. I'll figure it out. While I appreciate many people wish the devs had done it, it is too late to right it without making other areas problematic. After all, for years, I could have been fighting Praetorians at level 1 (and sometimes I did, all hail sidekicking). Ever been Master of Olympus at level 4? I have.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

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My first thought went to "oh cool, I wonder if this means Praetorian alignments can visit Hero/Villain zones now"


"I saw my advantage and took it. That's what heroes do." - Homer Simpson.

 

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Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
Yeah, that ship sailed a while ago.
My touchstone for this sort of thing remains Agent Angus McQueen thanking you for your help in preventing a second Rikti invasion, while dropships cruise through the stormy skies of Founders Falls dropping bombs. Uhhh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
I think the devs have made it pretty clear that the world will be moving forward in ways that affect even level 1 characters. Personal timelines are becoming less relevant than the world timeline. We will need to pretend things ourselves about how the older stories fit in.
Then IMO, it needs to move forward in sync. As it is, some parts are moving and others aren't, like a ship anchored to a dock. Either the chains snap or the ship tears itself apart.


My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City

 

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Or the arcs that reference the Rikti being humans, before you ever find out 'the big secret'.

Story has always been a hodgepodge. I really don't see it being that confusing. They don't have the time or manpower to do a full world revamp the way the 900 lbs gorilla did with it's last expansion. They update bits and pieces and they don't discard much of anything. The reason "it worked" before is that so much was self contained, all of the major plots could be taken in a vacuum because they all had their own characters and stuff never crossed over.

Now we've got characters and plots that are crossing over and moving forward. The story is actually -developing-. And the 1-50 model just doesn't support it in the way people want.

As I see it, the Praetorians are probably joining up to help fight against the Battalion, as they'll be the new big bad. The current roster of iTrials will be 'the past' while newer stuff will be the present.

The wonderful thing is, I don't care if other people can't deal with it. The devs are going to do it how they're going to do it, and it's pretty much tough luck if you disagree. So you either have to learn to hand wave it or sit and sulk.


 

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And I submit that we shouldn't have to pretend, ignore, hand-wave or make do. It should just work. Actually work, not just if we agree to pretend half the content doesn't exist.


My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City

 

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The ways of making it work that would appease most people would pretty much involve massive revamps every time some new major event changes thing. That's just not in the cards. Or it would involve major events all being '50+', but we can't move the level cap.

Really. If it were up to the way people want it, galaxy city would still exist as a starting area and at 50 it would be destroyed. Statesman and Psyche would be alive in any 'under 40' mission. Any new low level content would have to conform to 'the past' and 'new' and 'modern' stuff would all be end game content.

Or they could start dating everything and have people complain that 'why can I do something in Atlas and its August 2012 and then go to Faultline where it's June 2009?"


 

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Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
'why can I do something in Atlas and its August 2012 and then go to Faultline where it's June 2009?"


Trickshooter's Characters | @Trickshooter @Brightside

 

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Originally Posted by Trickshooter View Post
It all makes sense now.


 

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Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
The ways of making it work that would appease most people would pretty much involve massive revamps every time some new major event changes thing.
Yes.

Quote:
That's just not in the cards.
My point is, IMO, it should be. Or maybe we shouldn't have "major events", if they're not going to be (consistently) reflected in a static game world.


My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City

 

Posted

Of all the other Praetors, Marauder actually seems to me to be the only one that might have a shot at redemption. The other Praetors are all driven by self-interest, while Marauder had established an area of peace and safety for a large number of people prior to Cole's arrival. Violent and brutal as he is, his background has consistently been one demonstrating order over chaos. He grew up in a lawless environment, where size, strength, and power were the only rules that mattered to anyone - he used his natural gifts to climb to the top of the food chain, and then crushed anyone that threatened not only him, but anyone that followed him as well. Top Dog, Alpha Dog, however you want to put it, he's still a pack leader - he cares for his pack, tries to do what's best for them the only way he knows how. When Cole came over the mountains and offered him a job, he took it because he thought it was what was best for both himself AND the rest.

And now Cole's been revealed to be both a liar and far weaker than he appears, not only putting every other person in Praetoria at risk, but then throwing a temper tantrum that levelled a huge portion of the city with no regard for any other lives present... I could see that driving Marauder to some pretty dramatically different behavior. We can assume that Back Alley Brawler is "better" because he's a hero, but he was also a guy that became a cop to make a difference, and when it wasn't enough, took to vigilantism in a pretty violent way all in the name of making the world a safer place for people. In a lawless, destroyed place, it's quite possible that Michael White did exactly the same thing in reverse, trying to go from a thug to an officer of the peace in the hopes of something better - only to find that the people he'd been trying to make safer had been put at more risk than ever. Maybe now he's trying to find a way to help them again in their new home.


Marut, 50 FF/Rad/Power Defender - Champion
Leader of The Earthguard
Leader of The Galactic Empire

 

Posted

They could expand on the way Belladonna's arc has a bot at the start telling us that it take splace after the events in DA and the DD Trial - like they could add a bit at the start of the LGTF and the RWZ arcs saying that they took place during the 2nd Rikti invasion.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Trickshooter View Post
I'm going to assume the placement in Atlas and on Miss Liberty's pedastal are all just for the picture.
The lack of contact/trainer circles at the their feet also suggests that it's more of a posed shot.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Who said that's Atlas Park in the picture? Surely even Praetoria had an Atlas and built a statue in his honor.


 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
They could expand on the way Belladonna's arc has a bot at the start telling us that it take splace after the events in DA and the DD Trial - like they could add a bit at the start of the LGTF and the RWZ arcs saying that they took place during the 2nd Rikti invasion.
I so wish they'd go through and do this for old important arcs. Set up a disclaimer before hand stating where in the CoH timeline this mission takes/took place.


 

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Originally Posted by Hqnk View Post
Maruder is NOT A GOOD GUY!!

*breathe*

NOt...good...guy!!!!

Edit:
Alright, it's time to choose a Praetorian graduate and play through all of the post 20 Praetorian content.
If you play the Pretorian story arc starting lvl 1 there, you will see he is a big softie. Tough. But a softie.

He is not exactly a fan of Emperor Cole, something you find out if you opt to take care of Cleopatra.

The entire point of Pretoria was that things are not as clear cut. Especially, from my experience, Cole and White.


 

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Praetoria is basically meant to be a world of grey. That is why you can be Resistance for all the wrong reasons, and Loyalist for all the right reasons.


 

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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
Who said that's Atlas Park in the picture? Surely even Praetoria had an Atlas and built a statue in his honor.
The Praetorian version of Paragon City was called Shroud City and it was nuked off the map right at the start of the Hamidon Wars.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Who said that's Atlas Park in the picture? Surely even Praetoria had an Atlas and built a statue in his honor.
Praetoria might have, as the timeline (from what we can tell of it) would allow for Atlas to have existed and fought off the Nazi attack on Paragon. However, AFAIK the Praetorian Paragon City (I want to say I remember it being called 'Shroud City' at some point) was nuked and/or destroyed by Devouring Earth in the Hamidon Wars. Perhaps both.

So there might have been an Atlas Park in Praetoria at one point, but there isn't one currently.

Edit: Got ninja'd by Golden Girl. Should've made my post shorter xD


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Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
The entire point of Pretoria was that things are not as clear cut. Especially, from my experience, Cole and White.
Unless your main's initials are both the 7th letter of the alphabet.

And even then, after the initial concept with GR they certain tried to ensure with every subsequent issue that we knew how clear cut everything was by ignoring the characterizations and motives that they wrote into the stories from 1-20.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

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Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
by ignoring the characterizations and motives that they wrote into the stories from 1-20.
They carried through the 1-20 set up into all the following Praetorian content - there's nothing post 20 that contradicts anything in the GR content - it just builds on and expands from the very solid foundations they laid out in GR.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
They carried through the 1-20 set up into all the following Praetorian content - there's nothing post 20 that contradicts anything in the GR content - it just builds on and expands from the very solid foundations they laid out in GR.
...and makes assumptions about what you did and why, ignores potential hooks that have been mentioned in this thread showing that not everybody had to be "I'm so evil because I'm a Loyalist, let's all go commit atrocities now", and basically you ended up with cardboard cutouts that more closely mimic their original incarnations. That's most of what I was getting at.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
Unless your main's initials are both the 7th letter of the alphabet.

And even then, after the initial concept with GR they certain tried to ensure with every subsequent issue that we knew how clear cut everything was by ignoring the characterizations and motives that they wrote into the stories from 1-20.
The "problem" with GR was that it forced you out of Pretoria at level 20. From that point forward you basically see everything from the eyes of Paragon heroes or RI villains and stop seeing things from inside.

I quit the game when the expansion launched due to a composition of 3 issues:

1) Tanker balance issues with Brutes introduction to the overal game.
2) The fact that the expansion "ended" at level 20.
3) My own quest to make bad games.

As great as it was, I feel they overkilled with the branching system in GR, that time may had been better served doing more content and showing the entire "behind-the-scenes" world at least up to level 40.

I just started this week with the First Ward content, and as much as I like it it feels too neutral entirely ditching the complexity of the initial GR. They should had done this from the start, keep things "simple" but still show the content.

Oh well. Thats history now. But man, was such a missed opportunity.